Complete magic variet- Learning Magi

[Cybren]

I decided I dislike Vancian Magic- in order to right this wrong, I revised the D&D magic system with three intentions:

The Idea

1) Anyone can try to use magic, wizards are just the best at it.
2) Magic is cast spontaniously, but you can continue to add spells to your repitoire.
3) all magic is arcane. (I'm still in the process of revising how divine 'magic' will work in conjunction to this).

To accomplsih this, I axed all the full casters 'cept Wizard- Sorry, cleric, druid, bard, or sorcerer fans.

Secondly, I institute the Base Magic Rating (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/magicRating.htm) system, and the Spell points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) system.

Who's good at magic

The Magic Rating is split up thusly- Fighter, Rogue, Barberian, and Monk have the low (1/4th) magic rating.

Paladin and Ranger have the medium magic rating (1/2), and use their wisdom, rather than int, for casting (they apply their wisdom where a normal caster would his int).

Wizard has the full magic rating.

How to cast Spells

In order to be able to learn and cast spells, a character must have this feat

Arcane Talent [general]

Benefit: You may cast and learn spells as if you were a wizard of caster level equal to your magic rating. If your magic rating is 0, you can cast 3 cantrips per day.

Normal: You can not cast or learn spells.

Special: Wizards recieve this feat for free at 1st level.

Everyone with this feat casts spells as if they were a "wizard" of caster level equal to their magic rating.

All spells have a DC = 10+(3x Spell Level). To learn a spell, you must make a spell craft check against the spells DC. Attempting to learn a spell requires one hour of uninterrupted study per spell level.

In order to learn a spell you must have a scroll, spellbook, or teacher than knows the spell.

Casting a spell require a DC 5+(3x Spell Level) magic rating check (+ int mod) check.

Using a spell book that contains the spell, or a scroll of the spell gives you a +4 equipment bonus to this check.
Using a scroll or magic item 'normally' - that is, consumably, however, does not require this check.

If you target a creature with spell resistence, and the SR applies, their spell resistence is applied as a penalty to this roll.

Casting a spell with a somatic component in armor with an arcane spellfailure rate applies a penalty of 2 for every 5% of arcane spellfailure the armor would have.

The wizard remains the same, and receives the standard number of spell points as they would in the varient as normal. Wizards are now the only class that can have a familiar.

The Spell Mastery feat would give you the +4 equipment bonus to your spells as if you had a spellbook.

-The analyisis-

Balance issues- unlimted spells known, AND spontanious magic? I'm not sure how over powered this is.
On the one hand wizards are even more versitile.
On the other hand, everyone learns some degree of magic. Regardles, I think characters should have a limit on their spells known. The question is what's reasonable.

[kailin]

It's an interesting idea. You'll need to do a lot of tightening.

Here's my big question. Are the existing Divine Spells going to exist, and if so, will a wizard be allowed to cast them? 'Cause if the wizard is already the only full spellcasting class, and he gets full spells per day, and he can cast Cleric spells as well as wizard, I don't see why anyone would be anything other than a wizard, ever.

SR starts at around 21 and rapidly climbs to the low 30s. At the DCs you're setting, casting a spell on a creature with SR is going to be near-impossible.

Also, the some of the low magic-rated classes should be allowed to use Wis or Cha instead of Int. Otherwise this system is punitive to poor Barbarians, who have it hard enough as it is.

The way you put it, magic rating is a static number: 1 for wizards, .5 for half-casters, and .25 for everyone else. It sounds like the number is supposed to increase, though. Do you multiply it by the number of associated levels (so a fighter8 with the feat would have a magic rating of 2, not 1/4)?

I don't know the Base Magic Rating system or Spell Points, so those may obviate some of these major issues.

Now a bit of nitpicking. "Equipment" bonuses should be "circumstance" bonuses. Bonus type matters, and its always best to stick to existing types (for internal consistency) unless they obviously do not apply.

[Zeful]

This is interesting and I'm going to pick it apart.


The Idea please use the bold tags it makes things important without being obnoxious


1) Anyone can try to use magic, wizards are just the best at it.
2) Magic is cast spontaniously, but you can continue to add spells to your repitoire.
Make it hard to add spells indefinately, probably something like:

Easy learned spells=(caster level+ability mod)*2
This will benefit characters with high casting ability mods throught the levels, please note this would be the total amount of spells before a significant jump in the learning DCs for spells occur.


3) all magic is arcane. (I'm still in the process of revising how divine 'magic' will work in conjunction to this).
Make most magic arcane, there are still divine spells just not as many. This works well in campaign setting where there are no established gods or where there are no gods.


To accomplsih this, I axed all the full casters 'cept Wizard- Sorry, cleric, druid, bard, or sorcerer, fans.
You can sill keep most of theose classes just strip them of their casting abilities, and give them something else to compensate for that lack of casting.


Who's good at magic

The Magic Rating is split up thusly- Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, and Monk have the low (1/4th) magic rating.

Paladin and Ranger have the medium magic rating (1/2), and use their wisdom, rather than int, for casting (they apply their wisdom where a normal caster would his int).

Wizard has the full magic rating.
Just like bab but reversed.


How to cast Spells

In order to be able to learn and cast spells, a character must have this feat

Arcane Talent [general]

Benefit: You may cast and learn spells as if you were a wizard of caster level equal to your magic rating. If your magic rating is 0, you can cast 3 cantrips per day.

Normal: You can not cast or learn spells.

Special: Wizards recieve this feat for free at 1st level.
I would like to point out that you gave no core class a 0 magic rating. Maybe give the Fighter and Barbarian the 0 magic rating.


All spells have a DC = 10+(3x Spell Level). To learn a spell, you must make a spell craft check against the spells DC. Attempting to learn a spell requires one hour of uninterrupted study.
Refering back to my number of easilly learned spells formula changes to learning to DC=15+(3*Spell level). Also one hour of uninterupted study? Per spell level maybe, then you would have epic level spells taking days (almost). One hour flat allows a wizard, with a full day, really high int and spellcraft, to lean 24 spells a day! So the acrhmagi of your world having a few years to just study (and the magical equivilent to cafine), know tens of thousands of spells. With one hour a spell level the above archmagi could still learn the above rediculous number studying for a number of years, but that would be 1st level spells only. Higher level spells would take more time because they are (logically) more complex (including the Power word spells) then their lower level cousins.


In order to learn a spell you must have a scroll, spellbook, or teacher than knows the spell.

Casting a spell require a DC 5+(3x Spell Level) magic rating check (+ int mod) check.

Using a spell book that contains the spell, or a scroll of the spell gives you a +4 equipment bonus to this check.
Wait, you need the spell book to learn spells and using a spell book gives an equipment bonus! I'm confused, can somebody explain this?

Using a scroll or magic item does not require this check, however.
Why not? If casting the spell normally does what makes scrolls so special?


If you target a creature with spell resistence, and the SR applies, their spell resistence is applied as a penalty to this roll.

Armor with arcane spellfailure applies a penalty of 2 for every 5% of arcane spellfailure the armor would have.
Okay, seems like a good-ish conversion, not sure about the Arcane penalty thing but there are always kinks


The wizard remains the same, and receives the standard number of spell points as they would in the varient as normal. Wizards are now the only class that can have a familiar.

The Spell Mastery feat would give you the +4 equipment bonus to your spells as if you had a spellbook.All good


-The analyisis-

Balance issues- unlimted spells known, AND spontanious magic? I'm not sure if this is over powered.
On the other hand, everyone learns magic. Regardles, I think characters should have a limit on their spells known.
Yes unlimited spells known and spontainious magic is rather overpowered, name one class that gives both. In this setting the only limits should be the limits the caster has, his ability to comprehend the spells.


I still think sorcerers should be included

[Cybren]

Make most magic arcane, there are still divine spells just not as many. This works well in campaign setting where there are no established gods or where there are no gods.

You can sill keep most of theose classes just strip them of their casting abilities, and give them something else to compensate for that lack of casting.


I'm working right now on how Divine Magic will be incorporated. For now, they get the axe.


I would like to point out that you gave no core class a 0 magic rating. Maybe give the Fighter and Barbarian the 0 magic rating.
Everyone but the wizard atleast starts out with 0 magic rating. Thus, if they had the feat at 1st level, they can only cast cantrips. When their magic rating reaches 1, they start to cast first level spells.



Refering back to my number of easilly learned spells formula changes to learning to DC=15+(3*Spell level). Also one hour of uninterupted study? Per spell level maybe, then you would have epic level spells taking days (almost). One hour flat allows a wizard, with a full day, really high int and spellcraft, to lean 24 spells a day! So the acrhmagi of your world having a few years to just study (and the magical equivilent to cafine), know tens of thousands of spells. With one hour a spell level the above archmagi could still learn the above rediculous number studying for a number of years, but that would be 1st level spells only. Higher level spells would take more time because they are (logically) more complex (including the Power word spells) then their lower level cousins.

I think I will change it to one hour per level. You've shown me the light.



Wait, you need the spell book to learn spells and using a spell book gives an equipment bonus! I'm confused, can somebody explain this?
Why not? If casting the spell normally does what makes scrolls so special?
Let me clarify- you can learn a spell. You either need to read (and decipher) a spellbook or scroll, or have someone teach it to you. If you have a copy of the spell in book or scroll format, you can use it to give you a bonus to the check. It's "you're looking over your notes".

I do think I should do something to offset that. A penalty to your concentration check to avoid interuption perhaps.



Yes unlimited spells known and spontainious magic is rather overpowered, name one class that gives both. [right now, all of them!] In this setting the only limits should be the limits the caster has, his ability to comprehend the spells.


I still think sorcerers should be included
With the way it works, you can pretty much explain the fluff as to how you have your particular talent at magic however you want

[Cybren]

A thought I had is to have everyone choose three or four schools, and the rest are forbidden. Or penalized in some major way

[Gralamin]

A thought I had is to have everyone choose three or four schools, and the rest are forbidden. Or penalized in some major way

Perhaps allow 1st level spells of all, then make them choose one school from which they can learn more spells from. Then at level 9 and 15 they could choose another school, but require at least 2 spells of the last level to get this level. I think that would work out rather well. (For instance johnny the wizard is level 3 and chooses the ability to learn evocation, he makes it to 9th level and can now learn conjuration spells, Johhny really wants to learn a 5th level spell, but he needs to learn 2 2nd, 2 3rd, and 2 4th level spells first. Again later he is level 15, and get transmutation, before he can learn an 8th level transmutation spell he needs to learn 2 2nd, 2 3rd, 2 4th, 2 5th, 2 6th, AND 2 7th level spells before he could learn a single transmutation 8th level spell)

[Deepblue706]

Pretty interesting idea, but as said, spontaneously casting any spell could make the Wizard very powerful. The other classes get spells too, sure, but the Wizard will know more, and will always kick ass.

As long as all the magic would be studied in books, only INT should be used for bonuses, IMO.

[Cybren]

I'm aware of that, which is why i'm considering several options. Possibly limiting the schools known, though I'm unsure i even understand the idea shieldheart had.

Magic isn't studied in books anymore than swordplay is studied in manuals of combat.