Maximizing the effectiveness of Explosive Spell

[Human Paragon 3]

Explosive Spell is a pretty cool feat, but I can see it being underwhelming in actual practice. To maximize its effectiveness, spell selection will be key. Spells that take full advantage of the feet will:

1: Use the widest possible areas of effects (to throw creatures as far as possible)
2: Force opponents to make multiple saves to increase odds of a failure.
3: Require a reflex save, natch.
4: Can later take advantage of a prone opponent.

So what spells fit two or more the above requirements? I'm looking for suggestions for both divine and arcane spells.

Oh, and one follow up question: What happens to an airborne creature that is knocked prone?

[Quietus]

Airborne creatures knocked prone stall, and fall to the ground.

[Ganurath]

L1: Explosive Spell
H1: Sculpt Spell
L3: Energy Substitution (Acid or Electricity)
L6: Arcane Thesis (Fireball)
L9: Heighten Spell

Thus, a human sorceror of 6th level or higher can employ precision beamspam to throw the enemy around like ragdolls. At level 9, the sorceror can just go nuts. Remember to use PHBII's Metamagic Specialist varient, though.

[NecroRebel]

The classic: Widened Snowcasting Flash-frost Electric Admixtured Born of Three Thunders Explosive Locate City :smalltongue:

(It's a bit questionable if it actually works, though it technically does. Snowcasting gives the spell the Cold keyword, Flash Frost makes a spell with the Cold keyword deal 2 sold damage, Energy Admixture (Electric) adds Electric damage and keyword, Born of Three Thunders turns half of the Electric damage to Sonic and gives the spell a Reflex save, then Explosive does its schtick. 20 mile radius per caster level when widened.)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

L1: Explosive Spell
H1: Sculpt Spell
L3: Energy Substitution (Acid or Electricity)
L6: Arcane Thesis (Fireball)
L9: Heighten Spell

Thus, a human sorceror of 6th level or higher can employ precision beamspam to throw the enemy around like ragdolls. At level 9, the sorceror can just go nuts. Remember to use PHBII's Metamagic Specialist varient, though.Explosive Spell is a +2 meta, though. Without Arcane Thesis and Incantrix, it's not worth it unless your party often fights on top of tall buildings and rope bridges over chasms. Unless you have spells where you have trouble aiming them to avoid your friends(Blistering Radiance is the lowest level one I can think of, though if you can afford the 6th level slot it's a really good use of it), it's generally too expensive a boost, let alone spending a feat for the +2 spell level.

[Glyde]

I had some fun with explosive lightning bolt. Ended up sending a romantically-involved-with-a-character NPC flying off a boat. Fun stuff.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Snowcasting feat from Frostburn, adds the Cold subtype to any spell.

Flash Frost spell feat from PH2, causes any cold subtype area effect spell to deal an extra 2 cold damage per spell level to everyone within the area, as well as creating an icy layer on the entire area for 1 round, forcing Balance checks.

Energy Substitution: Electricity changes the damage to electrical damage, changes the cold subtype to electrical subtype.

Born of the Three Thunders changes half the damage into sonic damage, anyone damaged by the spell must make a Fortitude save or be stunned, anyone failing that save must make a Reflex save or be knocked prone.

Explosive Spell causes anyone who fails their Reflex save to be knocked to the spell's outer perimeter, taking an additional 1d6 damage per 10 feet traveled.

There's a 1st level spell in Races of Destiny called Locate City that has an area of one mile per caster level. Adding all of the above makes it take a 4th level spell slot. At caster level 7 creatures within sight of the caster who are knocked to the outer edge of its seven mile radius in less than a round's time will end up traveling at something like mach 23, taking on average over 12,000 damage. This is called a Locate City Bomb.

[arguskos]

Explosive Spell + Great Thunderclap is a great combination. Prompt three saves and four detriments!

[NecroRebel]

Energy Substitution: Electricity changes the damage to electrical damage, changes the cold subtype to electrical subtype.

I thought it was generally accepted that if you Substituted Electric for Cold you wouldn't qualify for Flash Frost anymore, thus it wouldn't work. I thought that you had to use Energy Admixture: Electric instead.


There's a 1st level spell in Races of Destiny called Locate City that has an area of one mile per caster level. Adding all of the above makes it take a 4th level spell slot. At caster level 7 creatures within sight of the caster who are knocked to the outer edge of its seven mile radius in less than a round's time will end up traveling at something like mach 23, taking on average over 12,000 damage. This is called a Locate City Bomb.

Also, wasn't the radius 10 miles per caster level? I don't have the book, but I thought that that was what others have said.

[sofawall]

Yes, 10 miles per caster level.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Right, I was just going by memory. The average speed is still about the same, I figured that up a while back and remembered what it was, but it's over 120,000 damage on average if they're knocked all the way to the edge.

[Ganurath]

Explosive Spell is a +2 meta, though. Without Arcane Thesis and Incantrix, it's not worth it unless your party often fights on top of tall buildings and rope bridges over chasms. Unless you have spells where you have trouble aiming them to avoid your friends(Blistering Radiance is the lowest level one I can think of, though if you can afford the 6th level slot it's a really good use of it), it's generally too expensive a boost, let alone spending a feat for the +2 spell level....If I may direct your attention to the L6 feat slot?

[Fishy]

So, here's the thing about the Locate City Bomb.

Explosive Spell pushes the affected targets towards the nearest square outside of the spell's area. An Explosive Lightning Bolt actually pushes its targets one square to the side.

Now, either the square where our intrepid wizard is standing is in the area of effect of Locate City, or it is not.

If it is, congratulations, you've just flung yourself seventy miles away.

If it is not, congratulations, every creature and object in a thirty-five mile radius has just been flung into your head.

[Ganurath]

So, here's the thing about the Locate City Bomb.

Explosive Spell pushes the affected targets towards the nearest square outside of the spell's area. An Explosive Lightning Bolt actually pushes its targets one square to the side.

Now, either the square where our intrepid wizard is standing is in the area of effect of Locate City, or it is not.

If it is, congratulations, you've just flung yourself seventy miles away.

If it is not, congratulations, every creature and object in a thirty-five mile radius has just been flung into your head.Extraordinary Spell Aim. Let's you alter a spell so a single creature in its area is unaffected, but doesn't alter the spell's actual area. Requires 15 ranks in Spellcraft to take the feat, and a 25+Spell Level Spellcraft check to successfully use it. Lucky for us, the metamagic increases in spell slot don't increase the actual level, and thus don't alter the spell's DC.

[ZeroNumerous]

Now, either the square where our intrepid wizard is standing is in the area of effect of Locate City, or it is not.

Or, our wizard succeeds on his DC 16(say level 7 is the earliest possible, lets go with 21 for +5) Reflex Save. His +6(Dex 16 for +3; +2 base; +1 cloak) ref save does so 50% of the time. Either way, climbing onto something tall(and thus making the nearest unoccupied 5ft square 70 miles in the air) and using Feather Fall solves all his problems.

[Doc Roc]

As a number of ninjas have noted down...

You are doing it wrong. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=18129618&postcount=2)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

All the caster needs is Resistance 1 or higher to both Electricity and Sonic. If he takes no damage from the spell, he's not affected by the Three Thunders effect of it. If he doesn't roll a Reflex save, then he doesn't fail the reflex save and isn't flung to the edge of its area.

[TSED]

Hurray, derailment! Blah blah blah nuke.


I think that using Explosive Spell for maximum effectiveness depends almost entirely on the DM. If he gives you LOTS of terrain to push guys into, off of, through, or past, then you get to be clever about it and do awesome stuff.

That being said, though, you can still use it effectively, just to a limited extent. Combine with baleful / [I forget its corollary's name] teleport, some terrain-shapers (solid fog, let some one crawl through, blast them back in! Throw victims into your Black Tentacles!)

Get an Easy Metamagic on there, good times.


One other question: are there any fogs that are a cylinder / burst / line / cone that require reflex saves? Getting something that continually pushes out anything that stands in it would hilarious and awesome.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

TSED, the spell you're looking for is Freezing Fog in Spell Compendium. I doubt Explosive Spell would make it any better though, since anyone inside of it is already completely screwed. Web is another option, though you sort of want people to stay in it.

The problem with Explosive Spell is that there aren't really a lot of good low-level spells to use it with. Far too few lower level area effects have Reflex saves, especially the most likely candidates (in-character) such as Sound Burst and Pyrotechnics. (Greater) Fireburst would be perfect if not for the part about getting pushed into your square instead of away from you. If you splashed Arcane Archer 2 though you could use Imbue Arrow with it and there wouldn't be a hole at the center, but that's a bit too build-specific. Most spells that could benefit from Explosive Spell would probably be better off with Empower Spell applied instead for the same cost. Metamagic Rods of Explosive Spell would probably be the same price of Rods of Empower, so that may be worth considering. As it stands though, most spells that you would want to make Explosive would be better off Empowered, and Empower itself isn't even all that great.

[Ganurath]

One other question: are there any fogs that are a cylinder / burst / line / cone that require reflex saves? Getting something that continually pushes out anything that stands in it would hilarious and awesome.One could use Energy Substitution to apply the Born of Three Thunders effect to Kelgore's Grave Mist, allowing for an Explosive Fog effect.

[Human Paragon 3]

The best spell to explosive I've seen so far in my study is Energy Vortex. You can make yourself subject to the spell so enemies won't fly into you. That way, you end up throwing everyone around you 20 feet away, damaging them and sending them flying. A good "get the hell away from me" effect.