Stacking Templates

[Scribble]

Before I get to my question, yes, I know this is going for extreme munchkin. That aside, is it technically possible to stack the half-dragon template multiple times on the same character so long as it's a different colored dragon each time?

I'm looking for specific "The RAW say no" on this, not opinions.

[Quietus]

Well, when you consider ...


"Half-dragon" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

And the template itself turns the inheritor into a half-dragon, which is a "living, corporeal creature"... yes, by RAW, you can technically stack as many half-dragon templates onto a single target as you like.

Is it stupid? Absolutely. But barring common sense, it's possible.

[ZeroNumerous]

Before I get to my question, yes, I know this is going for extreme munchkin.

Bit of warning, but it is in no way extreme munchkin. Half-Dragon is an LA+3 template, which means every time you apply it you will forever be 3 levels behind the rest of the party.

[sonofzeal]

Yes you can stack it. I believe Savage Cheeses Species explicitly states it, although I can't quote you a page number right now. You'll lose out on a lot of hp though, which might not be worth it.

[Scribble]

This for an an exalted game, so I can spend one side mostly on templates/LA stuff and the other side on a class.

[Eloel]

On a related note, can you be a Dragonborn Dragonborn Dragonborn Dragonborn Dwarf for +10 Con?

[sofawall]

This for an an exalted game, so I can spend one side mostly on templates/LA stuff and the other side on a class.

I hope you mean Gestalt.

[sonofzeal]

On a related note, can you be a Dragonborn Dragonborn Dragonborn Dragonborn Dwarf for +10 Con?
I believe Dragonborn is an acquired template, so not likely (but ask your DM anyway). Inherited templates are the ones that definitely stack, given a suitably convoluted parentage.

[ImmortalAer]

I believe Dragonborn is an acquired template, so not likely (but ask your DM anyway). Inherited templates are the ones that definitely stack, given a suitably convoluted parentage.

Oh, hi! I'm a green, black, red, gold, silver, bronze, blue, dragon-elf.

Why is my skin so pretty? Well, the mixture of all those scales and soft elven skin made it that way. ...Yes, my mother was the elf, why do you ask?

[Scribble]

I hope you mean Gestalt.

Oops, yeah, gestalt.

Considering this is a very high level game I'm thinking of just stacking all the main colors of the half-dragon template. Apparently someone was gang banged by a rainbow conga line of dragons... or a wizard did it. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt)

[ImmortalAer]

Oops, yeah, gestalt.

Considering this is a very high level game I'm thinking of just stacking all the main colors of the half-dragon template. Apparently someone was gang banged by a rainbow conga line of dragons... or a a wizard did it. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt)

Or the dragon was a mix, and it's parents were mixes, and so on back.

[Scribble]

Thank the gods dragon blood doesn't dilute it seems... just mixes and combines for more power!

[ZeroNumerous]

Considering this is a very high level game I'm thinking of just stacking all the main colors of the half-dragon template.

Even then, actual class levels are still better.

[Scribble]

Even then, actual class levels are still better.

Looking for stat increases. +8 Str per application of the half dragon template is verra nice I think.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

1st generation's parents are [base race] and [first dragon color]
2nd generation's parents are 1st generation and [second dragon color]
3rd generation's parents are 2nd generation and [third dragon color]
etc.

That gets the half dragon template added however many times you want it to be. It may take a lot of backstory and family history, but it is certainly possible from an RP perspective.

Depending on the character itself, there are probably some other/better options for that side of the Gestalt progression than just cheesing a lot of half-dragon templates. For example, you can start with a level adjusted base race such as Half-Ogre in Races of Destiny. That's naturally large size, so it gets the wings and can qualify for Hulking Hurler. You'll probably have a considerably high Cha score, which you should probably make use of. Dipping Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) for four levels grants your Cha bonus to AC, and consider how their Dexterous Attack ability interacts with Power Attacking two-handed.

There's also feats like Frightful Presence in the Draconomicon, Dreadful Wrath in Player's Guide to Faerun, and Imperious Command in Drow of the Underdark, and there's the Never Outnumbered skill trick in Complete Scoundrel. You could have visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to gain Skill Focus: Intimidate without spending a feat on it. If you're going to use Fighter levels, the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution levels are a superb alternative to what would otherwise be dead levels, especially the 9th level ability.

[JeminiZero]

Looking for stat increases. +8 Str per application of the half dragon template is verra nice I think.

If you want to make a strong warrior type based on templates on one half of a Gestalt, take a look at Evolved Undead. Can be taken multiple times, each time grants +2 Str, +2 Cha, +1 Natural Armor, Fast Healing and SLAs. Use Necropolitan as your base undead.

Also the Emerald Legion in my Sig makes for an interesting read on cross breeding and template stacking shenanigans

[Malacode]

While you've got SS open, have a look at Symbiotic Creature. Stack all those templates on a Tiny creature and then have the Tiny creature be half of a Symbiote, probably with Human or something. Insta LA reduction, as Advancement is as per the larger of the two creatures. Of course, it doesn't work for this particular template-stack-a-thon, and defeats the purpose (boosting Str) entirely.

[Scribble]

If you want to make a strong warrior type based on templates on one half of a Gestalt, take a look at Evolved Undead. Can be taken multiple times, each time grants +2 Str, +2 Cha, +1 Natural Armor, Fast Healing and SLAs. Use Necropolitan as your base undead.

Also the Emerald Legion in my Sig makes for an interesting read on cross breeding and template stacking shenanigans

Yeah saw that one... made a really damaging undead Iaijutsu samurai using that once, looking for something different this time around.

[NPCMook]

I forget where, but there was a thread a while ago about Multi-limbed races, and I think we got it up to having 12 Arms, so take Hand-Crossbows, and Perfect Multi-weapon fighting and Fire away... While the rest of the group goes and gets pizza, while you turn day to night :smallcool:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I forget where, but there was a thread a while ago about Multi-limbed races, and I think we got it up to having 12 Arms, so take Hand-Crossbows, and Perfect Multi-weapon fighting and Fire away... While the rest of the group goes and gets pizza, while you turn day to night :smallcool:

A friend and I came up with a 12-armed Soulbow (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) build that only went to Soulbow 2 at something like CR 9. Using Multiweapon Fighting it could deal around 20 damage per hit for 12 attacks/round at a fairly high attack bonus, with the Lucky property on every mind arrow.

[NPCMook]

A friend and I came up with a 12-armed Soulbow (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) build that only went to Soulbow 2 at something like CR 9. Using Multiweapon Fighting it could deal around 20 damage per hit for 12 attacks/round at a fairly high attack bonus, with the Lucky property on every mind arrow.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#perfectMultiweaponFighting 48 Attacks... You create a psuedo-night by raining Crossbow bolts upon the enemy, though that's 48 Crossbow Bolts per round... So you may need to buy every crossbow bolt that the town has.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#perfectMultiweaponFighting 48 Attacks... You create a psuedo-night by raining Crossbow bolts upon the enemy, though that's 48 Crossbow Bolts per round... So you may need to buy every crossbow bolt that the town has.

With that epic feat your primary weapon should have the Speed property, or you should have a Haste buff, and you should be using (Improved) Rapid Shot. Your primary weapon thus gets six attacks/round, therefore your secondary weapons also get six attacks each. That's 72 attacks, but it takes 2 hands to reload a crossbow. If you use Soulbow or just Gloves of Endless Javelins you would never need to buy ammunition and you would almost certainly deal more damage per attack. A Soulbow could easily have a Wisdom score of at least 36, for +13 damage per attack on top of whatever Enhancement bonus you get. A javelin build would likely have Brutal Throw, a Strength score in the 40's, and enough Stormlord levels that every one of them would have both Thundering and Shocking Burst.

[NPCMook]

With that epic feat your primary weapon should have the Speed property, or you should have a Haste buff, and you should be using (Improved) Rapid Shot. Your primary weapon thus gets six attacks/round, therefore your secondary weapons also get six attacks each. That's 72 attacks, but it takes 2 hands to reload a crossbow. If you use Soulbow or just Gloves of Endless Javelins you would never need to buy ammunition and you would almost certainly deal more damage per attack. A Soulbow could easily have a Wisdom score of at least 36, for +13 damage per attack on top of whatever Enhancement bonus you get. A javelin build would likely have Brutal Throw, a Strength score in the 40's, and enough Stormlord levels that every one of them would have both Thundering and Shocking Burst.

Forget the Rainbow Half-Dragon, do this build instead :cool:

[Gaiyamato]

Wait.. are there any LA +0 Templates or ways to turn a LA +1 Template into an LA +0.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Hey, people. Don't discount the Dry Lich evolved undead. A sorceror 20 on one side, Dry Lich Evolved 15x on the other.

Your charisma is 66. No, seriously.
Your average HP are 690 and you fast-heal 47 HP/round. No, seriously.

[Scribble]

Hey, people. Don't discount the Dry Lich evolved undead. A sorceror 20 on one side, Dry Lich Evolved 15x on the other.

Your charisma is 66. No, seriously.
Your average HP are 690 and you fast-heal 47 HP/round. No, seriously.

Yeah, but you can *only* get Dry Lich from an annoying divine based PrC.

[Gaiyamato]

Yeah, but you can *only* get Dry Lich from an annoying divine based PrC.

It is also available as a template. If your going to start arguing semantics then there are a whole lot of issues with using most undead templates.

Lets just stick to the Wizard excuse and call it a day. lol.

Unfortunately it can only be aplied once as you are no longer "living" after becoming a Lich. lol.



"Dry lich" is an acquired template that can be added to
any living creature (referred to hereafter as the base crea-ture),
provided it can create the required canopic jars and
undergo the Sere Rite (see below).

I personally think that Wraith is one of the best undead templates.
Wraith + Ghostly Grasp feat = awesome fun.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dry Lich is applied only once, Evolved Undead is the one applied multiple times. The mechanics of gaining Evolved Undead would make the character a minimum of 1500 years old for taking it 15 times, but considering the percentages he would probably need to be at least ten times that age. Considering the theme of Dry Lich I'd say it's perfectly fitting for one to be a survivor from an ancient and long forgotten civilization.

[Malacode]

Dam-N! I mean, I've used Evolved Undead before, but never considered it with Dry Lich. That's awesome!

[Belial_the_Leveler]

And let's not forget; some of the best characters ever were (or look like) Dry Liches:

Imhotep from the Mummy, Mum-Ra from Thundercats, The Emperor from Star Wars (ok, I'm pushing it)

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Looking for stat increases. +8 Str per application of the half dragon template is verra nice I think.

Not as nice as the Loth-touched from MM IV. It's a +1 LA that grants...wait for it...[/b]+6 Str and +6 Con![/b].

Stack that.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Problem is that (I think) it doesn't stack.

[Gaiyamato]

Here is something I cooked up quickly.
Didn't list every ability etc. Just the dot points.
Used what had been mentioned so far.

--------------------------



Human - Lolth-touched - Dry Lich
40 point buy

Racial Base Final
STR: +26 11 37
DEX: +0 18 18
CON: -- 08 --
INT: +0 18 18
WIS: +4 14 18
CHA: +20 15 35

Level 4: +1 INT
Level 8: +1 DEX
Level 12: +1 DEX

Turn res: +6
Turn As: 21HD
Fast Healing: 29
Nat AC: +14
AC: 28
DR: 10/B + Magic
HP Bonus: (CHA*HD)+HD == (12* 15) + 15 = 192
HD: 15D12 (+192)
BAB: +7/+2
Melee: +20/+15
Weapon: 1D6+13 (presuming mundane Khopesh)

Level 1: Battle Sorcerer 1 - Stalwart / Lolth-touched
Level 1: Spellcasting Prodigy (Count as +2 CHA for Daily spell bonus)
Human: Practised spellcaster
Flaw: Touchstone (City of the dead)
Flaw: Drift Magic
Sorcerer: Martial Weapon Proficiency (Khopesh)
Sorcerer: Weapon Focus (Khopesh)
Level 2: Sand Shaper 1 / Dry Lich
Level 3: Sand Shaper 2 / Dry Lich
Level 3: Arcane Preparation
Level 4: Sand Shaper 3 / Dry Lich
Level 5: Sand Shaper 4 / Dry Lich
Level 6: Sand Shaper 5 / Dry Lich
Level 6: Searing spell
Level 7: Sand Shaper 6 / Evolved
Level 8: Sand Shaper 7 / Evolved
Level 9: Sand Shaper 8 / Evolved
Level 9: Co-Operative Metamagic
Level 10:Sand Shaper 9 / Evolved
Level 11:Mage of the Arcane Order 1 / Evolved
Level 12:Mage of the Arcane Order 2 / Evolved
MotAO: Energy Substitution (Fire)
Level 12: Improved Turn Resistance
Level 13:Mage of the Arcane Order 3 / Evolved
Level 14:Mage of the Arcane Order 4 / Evolved
Level 15:Mage of the Arcane Order 5 / Evolved
Level 15: Improved Toughness

Can wear light Armor without Arcane Failure chance (not included in AC above).

City of the dead:
All spells have +1 CL against SR
+1 to all charisma checks

Spell Progression: 13th Level Sorcerer
Caster Level: 15

+12 Hide and Move silently, +8 Intimidate, Listen, Search, and Spot checks.

Skill Points: 150

Class Skills:
Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate,
Jump, Knowledge(All), Listen, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language,
Spellcraft, Spot, Survival

[Scribble]

DM has approved the multi-half dragon idea, so long as I come up with an interesting enough background to justify it.

The dry lich thing came up earlier, was DM rule that you can only get it as a PC by going through that PrC that gives it, so your results may vary.