The Return of Jirix?

[doodthedud]

Xykon seems to like Jirix more than Redcloak abot now and he DID say "THEN RAISE HIM! At least he had the decency to shout a warning!"

You guys think Jirix will be returning?

:smallbiggrin:

[Foryn Gilnith]

Different standards. Why does Tsukiko get off easy? Because she's a support character. Why does Jirix get off easy? Because he's a mook. Why doesn't Redcloak get off easy? Redcloak was Xykon's business partner, is actually competent, and was specifically tasked to protect the phylactery. He's the one that failed. Jirix is still an incompetent, so Redcloak is higher in Xykon's eyes - but for the moment, Redcloak needs to be disciplined.

[Ancalagon]

Different standards. Why does Tsukiko get off easy? Because she's a support character. Why does Jirix get off easy? Because he's a mook. Why doesn't Redcloak get off easy? Redcloak was Xykon's business partner, is actually competent, and was specifically tasked to protect the phylactery. He's the one that failed. Jirix is still an incompetent, so Redcloak is higher in Xykon's eyes - but for the moment, Redcloak needs to be disciplined.

Simple:
It was Redcloaks RESPONSIBILIY to keep the phylactery and Xykon trusted him with it. This is about failed trust, Redcloak did not even warn him and he's right about that and

and it was Redcloak's idea in the first place to make his symbol the phylactery. It's now fair for Xykon to say "You wanted it that way, you got your way, now deal with what that implies".

[Foryn Gilnith]

Simple:
It was Redcloaks RESPONSIBILIY to keep the phylactery and Xykon trusted him with it. This is about failed trust, Redcloak did not even warn him and he's right about that and

and it was Redcloak's idea in the first place to make his symbol the phylactery. It's now fair for Xykon to say "You wanted it that way, you got your way, now deal with what that implies".

Warn him about what? A naked paladin with no flight capability and poor saves? What happened is as much Xykon's fault as Redcloak's. But Xykon has the right to be angry whenever he wants, so it's a moot point.

The point I wanted to make is that Jirix is a flunky. A mook. A nobody. Redcloak, flawed and manipulative as he is, is more competent and if I were a villain I'd still "like" him more (inasfar as villains "like" anything).

[Ancalagon]

My point is... I doubt Xykon really cares about what you just lined out (correct as it may be).

[SlyJohnny]

The point I wanted to make is that Jirix is a flunky. A mook. A nobody.

I dunno about that. It's never been clearly stated, but as Redcloak's assistant, I had always assumed Jirix was the most competent cleric of the Dark One amoung the hobgoblin legions, and that was why Redcloak has taken him on as a PA/henchman.

I mean, yeah he may be a "mook" by comparison to an epic-level lich sorceror, a high priest who's packing an Artifact of his deity, an unseen monster of earth-shattering power, and a high-level Mystic Theurge with her own entourage of undead, but when he's not being compared against three or four of the most powerfully proactive beings in the world, he's probably kind of cool in his own right.

I mean, he's probably powerful enough that he's worth the price of a Raise or a Resurrection.

[Green-Shirt Q]

I doubt Jirix is just a mook. Xykon kills those without thinking and doesn’t consider raising them, I would guess. Xykon is actually considering raising Jirix, and has ordered Redcloak to do so, probably signifying some sort of importance beyond mook.

Although it's more likely Xykon was just saying "This dead hobgoblin is better then you!" or something.

[Morty]

It seems that Jirix is a successor of the hobgoblin general. So Redcloak would be likely to raise him even if Xykon hadn't orered it, which I suspect he did purely out of anger.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

I'm happy at the return of Jirix, hopefully his future is a bright one.

Although I secretly fear he gets raised, Team Evil leave, and the moment he muses "This rules! Me, an ordinary hobgoblin! I get raised and left in charge of a city!" the Resistance and slaves will burst in and kill him again.

And I'd say the Xykon is just intimidating Redcloak, he isn't serious about replacing Redcloak with Jirix, but he wants it to seem he is rewarding Jirix with a raise (heheh) while verbally blasting Redcloak and making him keep his one-eye status.


Different standards. Why does Tsukiko get off easy? Because she's a support character. Why does Jirix get off easy? Because he's a mook. Why doesn't Redcloak get off easy? Redcloak was Xykon's business partner, is actually competent, and was specifically tasked to protect the phylactery. He's the one that failed. Jirix is still an incompetent, so Redcloak is higher in Xykon's eyes - but for the moment, Redcloak needs to be disciplined.

Also Tsukiko wasn't actually there when it went wrong, and she clearly got back to Xykon and fixed him up before way before Redcloak did (plus her mind fog spell was very helpful during the V battle).

Really Tsukiko came out of the whole affair smelling of roses.

But yes, that is about right.


Warn him about what? A naked paladin with no flight capability and poor saves? What happened is as much Xykon's fault as Redcloak's. But Xykon has the right to be angry whenever he wants, so it's a moot point.

I'd say Xykon is angry at himself as well, but being Xykon there is no way he is going to admit it.

[doodthedud]

I didn't say Jirix would replace Redcloak, but I think Jirix will be raised and perhaps given more responsibility.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

I didn't say Jirix would replace Redcloak, but I think Jirix will be raised and perhaps given more responsibility.

Oh I agree. When Team Evil leaves Azure City Jirix seems the only candidate for being left in charge (or so it seems).

[Tempest Fennac]

I assumed Jirix was a reasonably high level character. Considering what Xykon knows about the Crimson Mantle, his outburst could suggest that Jirix is a Cleric (unless he was only threatening to give the CM to him as a threat/insult).

[mjo625]

He couldn't be that high for O-Chul to one shot him with an improvised weapon. Unless maybe he has a constitution penalty.

[Dire Platypus]

He couldn't be that high for O-Chul to one shot him with an improvised weapon. Unless maybe he has a constitution penalty.

He was already damaged by V's chain lightning:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0652.html

But I don't know how bad it was, and I don't remember if he healed...

[Tempest Fennac]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html suggests he wasn't healed after the Chain Lightning. Looking at the wound which killed Jirix, O-Chul may have scored another critical.

[DSCrankshaw]

It's not so far-fetched to think that Xykon actually likes Jirix. They were pretty chummy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html) when playing "Dead or Alive." Not enough to learn his name, I suppose, but it's reason enough to order an underling to raise him from the dead.

[doodthedud]

It's not so far-fetched to think that Xykon actually likes Jirix. They were pretty chummy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html) when playing "Dead or Alive." Not enough to learn his name, I suppose, but it's reason enough to order an underling to raise him from the dead.

Xykon never knows ANYONE's name.

Is redcloak his real name or is it just based off his cape for example?

[Ave]

Tsukiko deserves some scolding, though.

[Ridureyu]

Tsukiko is a naughty girl, and deserves to be punished.


...I did not just say that.

[Allan Surgite]

Xykon never knows ANYONE's name.

Is redcloak his real name or is it just based off his cape for example?
Based on some things I've read about Start of Darkness (correct at your leisure);

Yes, I believe it is. Xykon (when living) Disintegrated a (dragon?) cleric because his name was too long; since Redcloak/Right-Eye wanted to have him on their side, they decided to introduce themselves as Redcloak/Right-Eye... and he proceeded to refer to the pair as "Mutt and Jeff" anyway.

[doodthedud]

Based on some things I've read about Start of Darkness (correct at your leisure);

Yes, I believe it is. Xykon (when living) Disintegrated a (dragon?) cleric because his name was too long; since Redcloak/Right-Eye wanted to have him on their side, they decided to introduce themselves as Redcloak/Right-Eye... and he proceeded to refer to the pair as "Mutt and Jeff" anyway.

so what were their actual names? Were they Mutt and Jeff?

I've never read SoD

[Bibliomancer]

It seemed to me that losing his phylactery acted as a wake-up call for Xykon [although since he doesn't sleep it would be more of a 'Pay Attention' notice], causing him to start taking his plot to take over the world more seriously. As mentioned, he's planning to teleport out of here as soon as his phylactery is found, which means he won't be able to take many minions with him, since if he has the spell epic teleport he hasn't used it yet. Assuming that Jirix is one of the higher ranking hobgoblins, raising him makes a lot of sense because he could be useful later, if not for his spells than for his ranks in Profession (accountant) or some other skill.

[Azura]

so what were their actual names? Were they Mutt and Jeff?

I've never read SoD

Their actual names aren't revealed. :smalltongue:

[Raging Gene Ray]

so what were their actual names? Were they Mutt and Jeff?

I've never read SoD

Mutt and Jeff is the name of a comic strip in some newspapers, so no. This was just Xykon being a smartass.

[MReav]

He did remember one goblin's name. He was in the supplemental material. He was called "Jeff".

[Haven]

OP: I just assumed it was because, as Xykon mentioned, Jirix shouted a warning, which is good henching.


Their actual names aren't revealed. :smalltongue:

Redcloak's real name is Noah. And it'll be revealed after Roy saves his niece, and Redcloak warmly promises he'll kill him when needed.

And then Eugene comes back, hugs Roy, and steals his fighter levels.

[paladinofshojo]

I think that Jirix wasthe hobgoblin that saved Redcloak's life during the invasion of Azure City (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html)......and he got raised during the three month time skip to be promoted to RC's aide de campe out of bravery and valor in saving his Leader's life.....RC would probably raise him again even if Xykon didn't order it...........Heck, I think that all the hobgoblins in general are the embodyment of perfect grunt soldiers, they continiously sacrifices their lives for the mere convenience of their superiors without even the slightest hint of self-preservation, then again that's probably why Xykon recruited the entire race in the first place (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html)

[Xesirin]

Different standards. Why does Tsukiko get off easy? Because she's a support character. Why does Jirix get off easy? Because he's a mook. Why doesn't Redcloak get off easy? Redcloak was Xykon's business partner, is actually competent, and was specifically tasked to protect the phylactery. He's the one that failed. Jirix is still an incompetent, so Redcloak is higher in Xykon's eyes - but for the moment, Redcloak needs to be disciplined.

Assuming that Xykon sees redcloak as higher than the others in the first place.

I'm going to go with what has been said: Redcloak is getting punished because he's the one who "screwed up".

"Screwed up" being a subjective term, since they never really could have anticipated what happened.

[Tempest Fennac]

Why would Tsukiko deserve being scolded, Ave? Apart from make a daft suggestion regarding how to get the Psylactery back, she didn't do anything wrong.

[doodthedud]

OP: I just assumed it was because, as Xykon mentioned, Jirix shouted a warning, which is good henching.


That's what I'm thinking. Xykon likes henchmen that can hench good.


I think that Jirix wasthe hobgoblin that saved Redcloak's life during the invasion of Azure City (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html)......and he got raised during the three month time skip to be promoted to RC's aide de campe out of bravery and valor in saving his Leader's life.....RC would probably raise him again even if Xykon didn't order it...........Heck, I think that all the hobgoblins in general are the embodyment of perfect grunt soldiers, they continiously sacrifices their lives for the mere convenience of their superiors without even the slightest hint of self-preservation, then again that's probably why Xykon recruited the entire race in the first place (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0148.html)


I doubt it. Redcloak left him there and it would be unlikely he found him again after a devastating battle, where stone pieces were thrown through the air along with hobgoblins, as one hobgoblin under a catapult rock is gonna look pretty similar to other hobgoblins under pieces of the castle.

[MonkeyNinja]

You know, I don't really think that this was a command to actually raise Jirix. I was more of the opinion that he was telling Redcloak that he was a horrible henchman and if he screwed up again, he'd give his cloak to some random schmuck hobgoblin. The fact that Jirix was dead at the time just adds some additional insult to injury for Redcloak.

Xykon doesn't really get attached to the cannon fodder that surrounds him. I can't see him raising followers that have died unless they're particularly useful (in which case does a quick warning really count?) - or unless he does it to spite someone else (which may be the case this time).

[doodthedud]

You know, I don't really think that this was a command to actually raise Jirix. I was more of the opinion that he was telling Redcloak that he was a horrible henchman and if he screwed up again, he'd give his cloak to some random schmuck hobgoblin. The fact that Jirix was dead at the time just adds some additional insult to injury for Redcloak.

Xykon doesn't really get attached to the cannon fodder that surrounds him. I can't see him raising followers that have died unless they're particularly useful (in which case does a quick warning really count?) - or unless he does it to spite someone else (which may be the case this time).

I think he isn't 'attached' to Jirix but finds him useful. I think he will be raised because of this. While he is indeed trying to insult Redcloak, I think he still did appreciate Jirix's warnings enough to want him back.

[Optimystik]

I don't care WHAT Xykon's motivations are. Jirix is coming back! :smallbiggrin:

[theinsulabot]

as far as him being taken down by o-chul, remember, o-chul has some seriously hot dice, he rolled a 20 against RC, he rolled a 20 to break the hold person, he must of rolled high hit dice every time he gained a level. he probably just through a critical against jirix to