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qcbtnsrm
2009-06-13, 12:42 PM
Hey everyone. I would like to pick your collective brains. I'm creating a new character. He'll be starting as a level 5 Warlock/Rogue. And I'm looking for any suggestions. In particular I would love suggestions on how to get ranged sneak attacks in after the first round flatfootedness is over.

TSED
2009-06-13, 12:52 PM
If you're willing to sacrifice a large chunk of your levels, you could go as a pixie.


"What, LA+4? ARE YOU MAD?!"


Just consider: Permanent, at-will GREATER invisibility. Flight with perfect maneuverability. Size bonuses to hit and AC.


You will be untouchable, and the sneak attack / eldritch blast gestalt should catch you up reasonably quickly.

This does depend on getting to higher levels, though.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-13, 12:52 PM
Hey everyone. I would like to pick your collective brains. I'm creating a new character. He'll be starting as a level 5 Warlock/Rogue. And I'm looking for any suggestions. In particular I would love suggestions on how to get ranged sneak attacks in after the first round flatfootedness is over.

Darkness + Devil's Sight + Hide check?

Who needs Hide in Plain Sight? You've got an at-will Darkness ability, which grants Concealment, which is what is necessary to hide.

Later on, Walk Unseen and much later on, Retributive Invisibility are more effective methods. But for now? Heck, what else are you going to blow Least invocations on?

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-13, 12:58 PM
Dark Utterance...Shatter at will is a good thing...destroy weapons and armor, locks that you can't pick, traps, or...whatever.

qcbtnsrm
2009-06-13, 01:15 PM
TSED: No Pixies. THe DM hates LA races with a passion. And this is a character I'm converting from another campaign (4th Ed), So I'm stuck with Human (I would also be allowed half-elf/orc). Otherwise yeah, that would be pretty impressive.

ShneekeyTheLost: That is a pretty cheesy neat combo and what I was looking for. I don't know how I missed those.

I was going to go for Baleful Utterance (Lock? What lock?), Beguiling Influence (I'll be the party face), and Spiderwalk (Great to compliment movement). But those may may have to wait until I get Walk Unseen.

So far so good. Any good PrCs I should be looking ot build towards? At least aside from Hellfire Warlock? I won't be allowed to reduce the Con damage, so that loses a lot of appeal.

Wabbajack
2009-06-13, 01:27 PM
There are some nice feats in "Drow of the Underdark" you could use with darkness, they normaly are intendet for drow and their darkness spell-like ability and use up one daily use, but who cares?^^
They ar:
"Blend into shadows": Allows you to make a hide check as swift action as long as you are within 10ft of a darkness area.
"Fade into darkness": As standard action you gain a +5 competence bonus to hide for 1 minute per caster level. Doesn't function in bringht illumination.
"Instinctive darkness": Allows you to use darkness as a immidiate action that doesn't provokes attacks of opportunity.
"Intensify darkness": Allows you to cast deeper darkness instead, but uses a full-round action.

ErrantX
2009-06-13, 01:33 PM
If your DM allows homebrewed works, you could always try my Daggerspell Invoker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105313), a rogue/warlock PrC based on the Daggerspell mage and shaper from the Complete Adventurer.

-X

qcbtnsrm
2009-06-13, 03:35 PM
OK so here is what I have so far:

Human Warlock 5 // Rogue 5
Abilities (40pt Build)
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Chr 16

Skills: +8 Concentration, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, & Use Magical Device
+5 Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), & Sense Motive
+4 Listen, Spellcraft, & Spot

I need to be a good Trap Monkey and an ok Party Face. I have a Wizard in the party. So while I need to pick up a smattering of Arcana and Spellcraft, these at least don't need to be maxed. Even with Rogue and Human it is hard to get everything the party will want me to have.

Feats: Point Blank Shot (1st), Precise Shot (human), Spell Penetration (3rd)

This is still an area I don't really have any good ideas for. But these feats cover the basic requirements (Precise Shot is all but required at this level). I can probably re-train out of it when my level gets high enough that a -4 into melee is insignificant. And I put in Spell Penetration for lack of a better idea.

Abilities: Trapfinding (1st), Detect Magic(2nd), Evasion (2nd), DR 1/Cold Iron (3rd), Penetrating Strike Variant (3rd), Decieve Item (4th), Uncanny Dodge (4th), Eldritch Blast 3d6 (5th), & Sneak Attack +3d6 (5th).

Mostly just the basics here. I did put in Penetrating Strike. Hopefully this will give me a bit of a boost against undead and the like.

Invocations: Devil's Sight (1st), Darkness (2nd), & Spiderwalk (4th)
All of these will be replaced. Spiderwalk once I get Fell Flight. And the others when I get Walk Unseen/Retributive Invisibility. I expect to move these to Baleful Utterance, Beguiling Influence and Eldritch Spear.

Items:
3302 "Pact Dagger" +1, also applies to Eldritch Blast. From my DM.
2250 +1 Mithril Chain Shirt
4000 +2 Gloves of Dex
We are only getting about half the normal wealth by level. So I'm kind of limited here.

Does anyone see anything important I have missed? Any boneheaded mistake I've made?

Thanks again for the ideas.

qcbtnsrm
2009-06-13, 03:36 PM
If your DM allows homebrewed works, you could always try my Daggerspell Invoker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105313), a rogue/warlock PrC based on the Daggerspell mage and shaper from the Complete Adventurer.

-X

Nope I get just about anything WotC publishes, but no homebrew. My DM would like veto it as a combined class PrC anyway.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-13, 04:01 PM
OK so here is what I have so far:

Human Warlock 5 // Rogue 5
Abilities (40pt Build)
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 14
Chr 16

Skills: +8 Concentration, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, & Use Magical Device
+5 Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana), & Sense Motive
+4 Listen, Spellcraft, & Spot I'd worry about having spot and listen as your lowest skill checks.

Look, you've got 11 skill points per level (x4 at 1st), and 14 skills you want.

Personally, I'd dump Diplomacy, Spellcraft, and Knowledge (Arcana) completely. Diplomacy is mostly a waste, you can Bluff your way better, unless you are going for Diplomacy Cheese, which I'd advise against. Knowledge (Arcana) is not useful to you, as your party wizard can already cover this, and you have no abilities which key off of it. Finally, dump Spellcraft, because again, none of your abilities key off of it.

Then keep your 11 skills capped.

You're getting too complicated with your skill selection. KISS.


I need to be a good Trap Monkey and an ok Party Face. I have a Wizard in the party. So while I need to pick up a smattering of Arcana and Spellcraft, these at least don't need to be maxed. Even with Rogue and Human it is hard to get everything the party will want me to have. Duplication of effort is wasted. Dump Arcana and Spellcraft, and Diplomacy isn't really worth it. Done.


Feats: Point Blank Shot (1st), Precise Shot (human), Spell Penetration (3rd) you don't cast spells. Spell Penetration is worthless to you. Choose something else.


This is still an area I don't really have any good ideas for. But these feats cover the basic requirements (Precise Shot is all but required at this level). I can probably re-train out of it when my level gets high enough that a -4 into melee is insignificant. And I put in Spell Penetration for lack of a better idea. Precise Shot means not accidentally hitting your buddies. This is good. Spell Penetration, as I pointed out, is completely worthless to you as it does not affect SLA's, like your Invocations.


Abilities: Trapfinding (1st), Detect Magic(2nd), Evasion (2nd), DR 1/Cold Iron (3rd), Penetrating Strike Variant (3rd), Decieve Item (4th), Uncanny Dodge (4th), Eldritch Blast 3d6 (5th), & Sneak Attack +3d6 (5th).

Mostly just the basics here. I did put in Penetrating Strike. Hopefully this will give me a bit of a boost against undead and the like.

Invocations: Devil's Sight (1st), Darkness (2nd), & Spiderwalk (4th)
All of these will be replaced. Spiderwalk once I get Fell Flight. And the others when I get Walk Unseen/Retributive Invisibility. I expect to move these to Baleful Utterance, Beguiling Influence and Eldritch Spear.

Items:
3302 "Pact Dagger" +1, also applies to Eldritch Blast. From my DM.
2250 +1 Mithril Chain Shirt
4000 +2 Gloves of Dex
We are only getting about half the normal wealth by level. So I'm kind of limited here.

Does anyone see anything important I have missed? Any boneheaded mistake I've made?

Thanks again for the ideas.

Wand of Gravebane will let you sneak attack undead, for a measly cost of 750.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-13, 04:09 PM
What's with the mithril chain shirt?

you can wear light armor, and only have a +2 dex bonus so you don't exactly need the +7 or so from a mithril chain...and you only take the penalty to skills if you are not proficient.

Go for Mithril Breastplate later on. Better AC and still counts as light. Otherwise, don't bother with the mithril and just get something else with the money you save. that extra 1,000 gold spent on the mithril is doing nothing for you.

Could go for a cloak of resistance, or maybe check the magic item compendium for the armor crystals. A couple of those might do you good. anything but a mithral shirt that you'll never be capable of using to it's fullest.

kladams707
2009-06-13, 05:03 PM
and you only take the penalty to skills if you are not proficient.
.

That's not true. There are certain skills that are still affected by the armor even if you are proficient.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#armorProficiencyLight

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-13, 11:05 PM
Okay, you need to re-do your stats. Bigtime.

Strength is your dump stat. It has zero use to you, as you don't ever attack in melee. So that stays an 8.

Dex is your AC and your ranged attack. Pump that baby up to an 18.

Con is your hit points. Hopefully, being hidden, you won't be hit much. However, neither do you want a penalty. Bump it to a 10

Int is your skill points. Bump to a 16, and pick Diplomacy back up, dump Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana), and keep all skills at max ranks

Wis is your Will save, which is high due to Warlock. Keep it at a 10.

Charisma is your DC's, but has no other mechanical necessity for a Warlock. Leave at a 16.

So:

Str: 8 (0)
Dex: 18 (16)
Con: 10 (2)
Int: 16 (10)
Wis: 10 (2)
CHA: 16 (10)

Total: 40 points

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-13, 11:14 PM
Str: 8 (0)
Dex: 18 (16)
Con: 10 (2)
Int: 16 (10)
Wis: 10 (2)
CHA: 16 (10)

Total: 40 pointsYes and no. Drop Cha down to 14. Save DCs aren't that important. Pick Invocations that ignore them, and toss a 14 into Con.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-13, 11:19 PM
Yes and no. Drop Cha down to 14. Save DCs aren't that important. Pick Invocations that ignore them, and toss a 14 into Con.

True, there are other ways to boost your DC's (Ability Mastery feat, for example). +2 hp/level is easily worth a +1 on DC's

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-14, 01:00 AM
Ahh...right, I sometimes forget that...well, a magic shirt is by default masterwork, so the penalty would only be -1 if it was normal 'steel' instead of mithral. Still don't think an extra 1,000 would be worth it unless he has some way of maxing his dex over 18...

Now, if he uses the newly proposed stat lineup, he'll have a dex of 20 keeping those gloves which might be worth mithral...then again, if he is happy with a dex of 18, he can use the 4000 gold from the gloves, combine that with the chain shirt cash and get mithril breastplate...that only would have a -1 armor check penalty. That would be...200+4000+1000 = 5200 or 5350 if you assume the 150 gost for masterwork...since he was planning on a 16 dex, with the gloves, maybe an 18 starting dex would be worth it for better base armor...

6250g was the cost of the mithril chain shirt and the gloves together...so that would still leave 1,000g for a cloak of resistance...with the lowered will save, might be a good thing. AC would be one better than the shirt with a +5 max dex bonus.

qcbtnsrm
2009-06-14, 01:19 AM
Ok lots of interesting points. Let see If I can cover them. We did have our first session and the DM will let me make modifications in light of the first 'real' session. As a touch of background this is in a post apocolyptic world. Where we are the defenders/troubleshooters/ambasadors for our village.

Abilities:Yeah I should definately re-balance my abilities. The DM rewards broad capabilites and goes after known weaknesses. So I did go overboard to make a balanced character. Though in the first session I did end up briefly in melee. And my concentration is poor enough that I felt better off swinging the dagger than trying to get off the EB. The +2 to hit and damage certainly helped. Long term though that will be a waste. So I will get knock down Str and boost Dex.
But lowering Chr? I thought Warlocks were limited like Sorcerer's spells to Invocations equal or less than the characters Chr - 10. If I dropped my Chr down to 14 I couldn't get higher than Lesser Invocations. Although on review I can't see that written anywhere. Anybody heard of this, or did I just make a massive assumption?

Skills: My DM allows passive assists. So by having minimal investments in Knowledge (arcane) and Spellcraft I am functionally a permanant +2 for the Wizard. Which is important as it helped the Wizard reach a 30+ to identify a portal to the Plane of Fire. Neither of these will go past 5 though. That'll generally give me the 10 to make the assist and I get the +2 synergy to Use Magical Device for scrolls.
Likewise I'll probably keep Diplomacy. Our first session revolved around setting up trade routes and establishing friendly relationships. I don't need enough to be abusive, but it sure was helpful and prevented a couple of fights tonight.
On the bonus side, we had a new player I wasn't expecting who made a trapfinding rogue. So I'll probably scale back those skills to just enough for support and bump up the spot and listen checks.

Feats: Per RAW: "An eldritch blast is subject to spell resistance, although the Spell Penetration feat and other effects that improve caster level checks to overcome spell resistance also apply to eldritch blast." So as that is my only real attack I really do need to keep Spell Penetration for it. Unless there is a better way to improve my level checks vs SR?

Equipment: Being in a post apocolyptic game there is a lot of weirdness in equipment availiblity. Basically I have what the DM has given me. I'm not sure why I forgot the Breastplate. I think I can upgrade to that OK. And I'll have to look into the Wand of Gravebane and try to talk him into one. What book is Gravebane from?

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-14, 01:34 AM
Ok lots of interesting points. Let see If I can cover them. We did have our first session and the DM will let me make modifications in light of the first 'real' session. As a touch of background this is in a post apocolyptic world. Where we are the defenders/troubleshooters/ambasadors for our village.

Abilities:Yeah I should definately re-balance my abilities. The DM rewards broad capabilites and goes after known weaknesses. So I did go overboard to make a balanced character. Though in the first session I did end up briefly in melee. And my concentration is poor enough that I felt better off swinging the dagger than trying to get off the EB. The +2 to hit and damage certainly helped. Long term though that will be a waste. So I will get knock down Str and boost Dex.
But lowering Chr? I thought Warlocks were limited like Sorcerer's spells to Invocations equal or less than the characters Chr - 10. If I dropped my Chr down to 14 I couldn't get higher than Lesser Invocations. Although on review I can't see that written anywhere. Anybody heard of this, or did I just make a massive assumption? Nope, you are not limited, as pure casters are, by your primary casting stat as to which effects you can cast. The ONLY thing Charisma affects is your DC's.

Why are you worried about Concentration? You've got a +10 check (8 ranks + 2 Con Mod), so far. Casting on the Defensive is DC 15+Spell Level. Not a problem.


Skills: My DM allows passive assists. So by having minimal investments in Knowledge (arcane) and Spellcraft I am functionally a permanant +2 for the Wizard. Which is important as it helped the Wizard reach a 30+ to identify a portal to the Plane of Fire. Neither of these will go past 5 though. That'll generally give me the 10 to make the assist and I get the +2 synergy to Use Magical Device for scrolls.
Likewise I'll probably keep Diplomacy. Our first session revolved around setting up trade routes and establishing friendly relationships. I don't need enough to be abusive, but it sure was helpful and prevented a couple of fights tonight.
On the bonus side, we had a new player I wasn't expecting who made a trapfinding rogue. So I'll probably scale back those skills to just enough for support and bump up the spot and listen checks. Ahh, that does change things. With the bump to your Int score, you can max out Diplomacy, with 5 ranks each in Spot, Listen, Knowledge (Arcana), and Spellcraft.


Feats: Per RAW: "An eldritch blast is subject to spell resistance, although the Spell Penetration feat and other effects that improve caster level checks to overcome spell resistance also apply to eldritch blast." So as that is my only real attack I really do need to keep Spell Penetration for it. Unless there is a better way to improve my level checks vs SR? You're not really worried about SR. By the time it becomes a problem, you have Vitriolic Blast, which does acid damage and ignores SR. I would suggest, rather, things like Quicken/Empower Spell-Like Ability, or perhaps some of the Complete Scoundrel feats that let you do other things with sneak attack dice.


Equipment: Being in a post apocolyptic game there is a lot of weirdness in equipment availiblity. Basically I have what the DM has given me. I'm not sure why I forgot the Breastplate. I think I can upgrade to that OK. And I'll have to look into the Wand of Gravebane and try to talk him into one. What book is Gravebane from?

If you want the Dex of 18, as I suggested, then keep the Mithral Chain Shirt, you're gonna need it. And see if you can get the +2 up to a +4, max dex bonus for Mithral Chain Shirt is +6, which is at a 22. At that point, Dex becomes much less useful.

Gravebane is from... I'm wanting to say Spell Compendium, I think it was also in PhB II and... Complete Arcane? Complete Mage? Complete Divine? One of those three...

Swift action to use Wand of Gravebane, to let you apply sneak attack to undead.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-14, 02:02 AM
The Devil's Sight + Darkness combo is a waste, you only get three invocations at each tier and you want Baleful Utterance and See the Unseen. If you want to use the Hide skill, go with an Underfolk in Races of Destiny, it's a human subrace that lives in underground environments. Use Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) and make your Rogue 10 special ability Hide in Plain Sight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm#hideinPlainSight), since you'll already have Camouflage as a racial ability. That's the absolute best hiding ability in the entire game, it works regardless of the current conditions and even in an antimagic field unlike Supernatural abilities of the same name. Take the feat Darkstalker from Lords of Madness and anything with Scent, Blindsense, Blindsight, Tremorsense, or any other special senses that would automatically detect you must instead make a Spot or Listen check (whichever DC is higher) in order to even notice you.

Get a Wand of Grease, anyone standing on it who has less than 5 ranks in Balance will automatically be considered flat-footed. An Eternal Wand (MIC) is only 820 gp and usable 2/day, so get two or three and you should be set. You shouldn't even have to roll a UMD check for them as per the item description, assuming Warlock invocations would qualify as arcane spellcasting for item activation as it does for prestige class entry. You should also get a (+1) Mithral Buckler, since you don't suffer any penalties for using it.

Spam Eldritch Chain + Blinding Blast every round, blinded foes won't get their Dex bonus to AC. Take Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast and any Eldritch Essence you apply will be at +2 DC. Get Fey Heritage and Fey Power in Complete Mage for another +1 to both DC and caster level, and you may as well get Fey Skin while you're at it. Fey Power allows you to go Warlock 4/ Mindbender 1, then keep taking more Warlock levels, in which case your 6th level feat should be Mindisght from Lords of Madness (page 126). You could also get Eldritch Glaive from Dragon Magic and gain sneak attack via flanking, though that focuses more on Strength than Dex. Definitely keep max ranks in UMD, and maybe even take Craft Wand since you can put any spell you want on them within the level limitation. If there's a Wizard (or Archivist!) in your group you can help him make scrolls of whatever spells he wants, and get him to make you some scrolls in return.

Edit: I almost forgot, you should take Crusader 2 at your 19th and 20th character levels. At level 20 your initiator level will be 11, so you can pick Aura of Chaos as your stance and you'll get an extra die of damage for every die that rolls max, including when the extra ones do. Deadly Precision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#deadlyPrecision) is also good to take with that, since it increases your chances to roll max on each die.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-06-14, 02:15 AM
Suggestions:

1) Supernatural Transformation feat for your Eldritch Blast. Now your EB is supernatural so; ingores SR, needs no concentration, has no somatic components (you can use it while grappled, for example), cannot be dispelled and its DC is 10+ 1/2 HD + charisma modifier (or 17 for your level and a charisma of 18).

2) Ability Focus feat for your Eldritch Blast. +2 to DCs so DC 19 now.

3) Don't listen to people that say "dump charisma". Once you get Noxious Blast, every target you hit will need to make a save or be nauseated for one minute. That means they can't take ANY actions except move. That's a save-or-lose more powerful than finger of death; if they fail, they're essentially dead meat and deathward (or any outher spell I know of) does not stop it like it does finger of death. And Eldritch Chain can make it a multi-target save-or-lose later on while at 10+ level, you get Eldritch Cone. Can you say AoE save-or-lose?
(a 12th level warlock with 20 charisma +4 from item and ability focus has a DC of 25. How many CR 12s can reliably make the save?)

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-14, 02:30 AM
Suggestions:

1) Supernatural Transformation feat for your Eldritch Blast. Now your EB is supernatural so; ingores SR, needs no concentration, has no somatic components (you can use it while grappled, for example), cannot be dispelled and its DC is 10+ 1/2 HD + charisma modifier (or 17 for your level and a charisma of 18). Where is that from, and what are the prerequsites?

2) Ability Focus feat for your Eldritch Blast. +2 to DCs so DC 19 now.


3) Don't listen to people that say "dump charisma". Once you get Noxious Blast, every target you hit will need to make a save or be nauseated for one minute. That means they can't take ANY actions except move. That's a save-or-lose more powerful than finger of death; if they fail, they're essentially dead meat and deathward (or any outher spell I know of) does not stop it like it does finger of death. And Eldritch Chain can make it a multi-target save-or-lose later on while at 10+ level, you get Eldritch Cone. Can you say AoE save-or-lose?
(a 12th level warlock with 20 charisma +4 from item and ability focus has a DC of 25. How many CR 12s can reliably make the save?)

Except, of course, that a lot of critters he is expecting to go up against (like, say UNDEAD) are immune to nausea. Besides, Utterdark Blast is better, what with two negative levels and all.

Keep in mind, we're not saying 'dump charisma', we're saying 'there are SO many other ways to boost your DC's that one additional point is not going to be worth 2 hps per level"

Quietus
2009-06-14, 04:26 AM
I personally wouldn't get the 18 dex, either. Those points can be spent somewhere else - for example, boosting strength back up for carrying capacity, since it's unlikely you can hit the MagikMart to get a Heward's handy haversack any time soon. Or raising Int for more skill points. A 16 does does mean 1 point less AC and 1 point less attack rolls, but you're rolling *touch* attack rolls. That 1 point isn't gonna make a huge difference, and with maxed hide/move silently and Darkness/Devil's Sight (Is that what it was called?) combo, you can make sure you're always hidden. And since you have concealment, even if they spot you, you can sneak attack them - they don't benefit from concealment when you use Devil's Sight, or whatever it's called, to see through magical darkness.

qcbtnsrm
2009-06-14, 10:01 AM
Alright here is my modified build

Human Warlock 5 // Rogue 5
Abilities (40pt Build)
Str 10 - I hate having a penalty, even on a dump stat. So 10 it is.
Dex 16 - Good for AC, Init, Reflex, and my ranged attacks. It did need to go up.
Con 14 - I need HPs and I need anything to give me a boost to Fort.
Int 16 - More Skill points, yeah.
Wis 14 - Good for some key skills and Will saves.
Chr 14 - Necessary, but not quite as vital as I had been thinking.

Skills: +8 Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, & Use Magical Device
+5 Disable Device, Knowledge (arcana), Open Lock, & Search
+4 Spellcraft
Ok now I am a good Party Face, and a decent support for the Wizard and the real rogue. And my stealth and perception are great.

Feats: Point Blank Shot (1st), Precise Shot (human), Supernatural Transformation (3rd)
I found Supernatural Transformation in Savage Species. It only affects innate spell-like abilities. So by RAW I don't think it works. But I think I can get my DM to buy in, as the class abilities come from my "supernatural bloodline."

Class Abilities: Trapfinding (1st), Detect Magic(2nd), Evasion (2nd), DR 1/Cold Iron (3rd), Decieve Item (4th), Uncanny Dodge (4th), Eldritch Blast 3d6 (5th), & Sneak Attack +3d6 (5th).

Invocations: Devil's Sight (1st), Darkness (2nd), & Spiderwalk (4th)
All this is unchanged.

Items:
3302 "Pact Dagger" +1, also applies to Eldritch Blast. From my DM.
2250 +1 Mithril Chain Shirt
4000 +2 Gloves of Dex

And lots of other interesting ideas going forward, especially with feats. I wasn't sure ehere to go with them. Thanks everyone.

RMS Oceanic
2009-06-14, 10:10 AM
I would take the Craven feat. (Champions of Ruin) You can't be immune to fear to take it, and it gives you a -2 penalty to fear related saves, but you also gain 1 damage per character level to your sneak attack. At higher levels, that's the equivalent of empowering (as in the metamagic feat) your sneak attack damage.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-14, 10:13 AM
When you hit 9th level, drop 1 level of Rogue and pick up a level of Swordsage. It grants you Assassin's Stance (Sneak Attack +2d6...a net gain over straight Rogue), as well as a d8 Hit Die, +1 to Initiative, and +2 to Fort and Reflex saves. Oh...and some maneuvers as well.

Eldariel
2009-06-14, 10:22 AM
When you hit 9th level, drop 1 level of Rogue and pick up a level of Swordsage. It grants you Assassin's Stance (Sneak Attack +2d6...a net gain over straight Rogue), as well as a d8 Hit Die, +1 to Initiative, and +2 to Fort and Reflex saves. Oh...and some maneuvers as well.

Your first stance has to be a 1st level one, so he needs two levels of SS for that (one level buys you the prerequisites for Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance though so either two levels or 1 level and 1 feat).

Quietus
2009-06-14, 01:59 PM
Your first stance has to be a 1st level one, so he needs two levels of SS for that (one level buys you the prerequisites for Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance though so either two levels or 1 level and 1 feat).

Two levels would also net him wis to AC in light armor though, right?

Eldariel
2009-06-14, 02:14 PM
Two levels would also net him wis to AC in light armor though, right?

Indeed; didn't suggest it's a bad idea, just mentioned the drawback.

Chronos
2009-06-14, 03:36 PM
If you want to use the Hide skill, go with an Underfolk in Races of Destiny, it's a human subrace that lives in underground environments. Use Wilderness Rogue and make your Rogue 10 special ability Hide in Plain Sight, since you'll already have Camouflage as a racial ability.Dubious legality, and it doesn't work that well anyway. The Underfolk do have an ability called Camouflage, but it's not the same ability Hide in Plain Sight is referring to, so the DM might not allow it. And even if he does, the ranger version of Hide in Plain Sight doesn't remove the need for concealment in order to hide. That's normally not an issue, since you normally get the ranger Camouflage ability first, which does remove the need for concealment. But you're bypassing that ability here. Really, Camouflage is the more important ability than Hide in Plain Sight, anyway, so just get it as a 10th level wilderness rogue, and then take HiPS at 13 if you really want it.


Your first stance has to be a 1st level one, so he needs two levels of SS for that (one level buys you the prerequisites for Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance though so either two levels or 1 level and 1 feat).Are you sure about that? I thought stances just had an initiator level prereq, like any other maneuver. And X 8 / Swordsage 1 has an IL of 5, high enough to take a 3rd-level stance.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-14, 03:39 PM
Are you sure about that? I thought stances just had an initiator level prereq, like any other maneuver. And X 8 / Swordsage 1 has an IL of 5, high enough to take a 3rd-level stance.Minor, oft-forgotten rule, but the stance granted by the first level in an initiating class needs to be a first level stance. No clue why, but it does.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-14, 04:07 PM
"You begin play with knowledge of one 1st level stance from any discipline open to you."

All three classes start out their 'Stances Known' section like that. Many take that to mean that the 1st level of the class cannot grant a stance higher than 1st level. It looks to me like the designers assumed that your 1st class level would be at your 1st character level, thus the part about when you begin play. If you go Rogue 8/ Swordsage 1, you don't begin play with any stances at all, though at Swordsage 1 you gain knowledge of one stance that you qualify for. Since your initiator level will be at 5 with those class levels, you would qualify for 3rd level stances such as Assassin's Stance. The perceived 'limitation' of a 1st level stance when you begin play would not apply to a 9th level character, because you are not beginning play when you gain that class level.

Myrmex
2009-06-15, 02:39 AM
"Fade into darkness": As standard action you gain a +5 competence bonus to hide for 1 minute per caster level. Doesn't function in bringht illumination.


Or buy the cloak of elvenkind for 2,500 gold and have +5 all the time.