"The Plan" - Does Xykon know the truth?

[bromordra]

First off, I just gotta say that I JUST fininshed reading through the whole archive + start of darkness, and I've gotta say, wow, great story, great humor, good job rich. But that's not important to the topic.

Okay, It's pretty well established in the comic and in SOD that Xykon often knows about plots/lies against him, but does not mention it because he simply doesn't care. The scene with Right-Eye at the end of SOD being the formost example in my mind.

So, is it possible that Xykon actually knows Redcloak is lying about the Dark One's "Plan", but is going along with it anyway out of boredom/some unknown agenda?

Just a thought.

[Yuki Akuma]

If Xykon knew he'd get his soul destroyed the moment they succeed, he would not be working with Redcloak.

[werik]

My answer would be that it's possible, but unlikely. If Xykon overheard Redcloak and Right Eye speaking about what really happened while in the bathroom, then yes. However, if he didn't it is nearly impossible for him to have found out since the lore only seems to be known by the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle.

[bromordra]

If Xykon knew he'd get his soul destroyed the moment they succeed, he would not be working with Redcloak.

Who says he'd get his soul destroyed? Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be, but I'm pretty sure total destruction was only one, albeit very bad, possible outcome of the ritual. The other being the Dark One getting control of the snarl's escape points, killing gods and such.

[R. Malcovitch]

Doubtful. For one thing unless he overheard a conversation between Right Eye and Redcloak he wouldn't have any way of knowing what the endgame actually is. Second of all Xykon doesn't give a crap about anyone other than himself, and especially doesn't care about the Dark One's utopia, so there's no way he would be doing any of this if he knew that ultimately the gate wasn't going to be in his control.

However he might be waiting to screw up the ritual at the last second and give control of the gate to himself instead of DO. That would make sense, except for the chance of getting annihilated when the gate opens. If there's any significant risk of that happening then Xykon is out of the game immediately.

So I would guess that no, he doesn't know.

[Yuki Akuma]

Who says he'd get his soul destroyed? Correct me if I'm wrong, and I may be, but I'm pretty sure total destruction was only one, albeit very bad, possible outcome of the ritual. The other being the Dark One getting control of the snarl's escape points, killing gods and such.

I got the impression that both outcomes were going to happen, more-or-less at once.

Redcloak doesn't need to be alive for his god to have control of the gate.

[Kish]

The Plan, at least as Redcloak knows it, is for the ritual to give the Dark One control of where the rifts appear. At this point, Redcloak probably no longer plans to offer Xykon a cushy retirement, but there is no indication the ritual is at all dangerous to either caster, as far as we know.

[David Argall]

The basic point is that the plan, as known to us and Redcloak, gives Xykon no benefit whatsoever. At the best, he would just be allowed to go around killing stuff more or less at random, and he could easily be turned into some ignored retiree or an office boy.

So no, he would not be bothering with these gates if he knew the full plan. He would be off setting up some other big plot where he stays the big bad.

[OOTS_Supporter]

I don't know what exactly the Plan is. Someone help me out?

[Crazeemeel]

The Dark One's Plan, according to SoD is

Gain control of the Snarl to hold the Gods hostage and force them to make a level playing field for Goblins. Goblins were originally created by the Gods just as xp for pc's and given terrible land so that they could never get very powerful.

As Redcloak says: "Goblins were betrayed by the Gods that created them"

[The Grazymancer]

Well X has to be intelligent enough to suspect that everything might not be as he thinks even if he has no actual evidence. Maybe he has studied the gates more than RC thinks and has some precautions in place just in case. Maybe Xykon intents to alter the ritual or something when it takes place.

[Morquard]

That whole thread deserves a BIG SoD spoiler!

I wouldn't put it past Xykon that he knows about it.
Remember what he said to Redcloak after he killed Right-Eye. "Don't confuse not caring with not knowing".
Xykon might very well know and has his own plan set in motion, maybe by slightly altering the spell Redcloak plans to use for his Plan, so that in the end Xykon will end up controlling the gate, not the Dark One?
He was gone for years before they actually attacked Durokans gate, who knows what he learned during that time

[Zevox]

*For the record, I'm making this post assuming everyone reading this far into the thread has figured out that the whole discussion involves big Start of Darkness spoilers.*


I got the impression that both outcomes were going to happen, more-or-less at once.

Redcloak doesn't need to be alive for his god to have control of the gate.
You got the wrong impression, then. Redcloak even had to explain to Right-Eye why there was no danger from Xykon discovering, after the ritual was complete, that it did not give him control of the Snarl at all (the reason he gives being that the Dark One will have control of the Gate, and Xykon is not strong enough to fight a god). The possibility of Redcloak and Xykon being destroyed by the Snarl was mentioned only as happening if they screw up the ritual and accidentally set the Snarl free. See SoD page 48.

Anyway, David Argall basically has the right of it here. Xykon can't know the truth about Redcloak's/The Dark One's Plan. First, because the only source of information he has on it is Redcloak himself - only Redcloak and the Dark One know the full truth about The Plan. Redcloak isn't going to tell Xykon anything more than he needs to know, and The Dark One isn't going to tell Xykon anything at all. Second, because if he did, he'd have no reason to go along with it, since it doesn't benefit him in the least, and (from his perspective) every reason to violently murder Redcloak for deceiving him about it.

Zevox

[lothos]

I'm not sure that only the Dark one and Redcloak know what the plan is.

Start of Darkness Spoiler:
Right before Redcloak gets the Crimson Mantle, a group of Paladins from Azure city attack the goblins. One of the paladins says something about "One of your number threatens the very fabric of reality", or something along those lines. I don't have S.O.D with me to quote exactly, but that's the gist of it.

It's not clear cut, but I took this to mean that somehow the Sapphire Guard know what the Dark one's plan is, or at least the senior members of it.

It's possible of course that they just think the bearer of the crimson mantle is out to destroy the gates for some reason and don't know about the plan.

Either of these options correlates well with what Miko says in strip 369 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html). In that strip she sees Redcloak and says "The Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, Here ?". She knows that his cloak is important and what it's called. A couple of panels later she says "Abomination ! You and your foul god shall never succeed".

I always assumed from this strip that she knew what Redcloak was up to, that she knew of the Dark One's plan. Perhaps again, she just thought Redcloak has some crazy plan to just destroy the gates... but that wasn't my assumption.

[Zevox]

I seriously doubt they have any real details about it. Most likely they simply know that the bearers of the Crimson Mantle plan to meddle with the Gates somehow, and that's more than enough to consider them a threat. Certainly I wouldn't expect them to know the full of it, or enough to be able to reveal Redcloak's deception to Xykon.

Zevox

[veti]

Either of these options correlates well with what Miko says in strip 369 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html). In that strip she sees Redcloak and says "The Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, Here ?". She knows that his cloak is important and what it's called. A couple of panels later she says "Abomination ! You and your foul god shall never succeed".

I always assumed from this strip that she knew what Redcloak was up to, that she knew of the Dark One's plan. Perhaps again, she just thought Redcloak has some crazy plan to just destroy the gates... but that wasn't my assumption.

Nah, that means she knows that the Crimson Mantle is an evil artifact, and hence Redcloak must be a powerful enemy, but it doesn't mean she knows diddly about the specifics of The Plan.

The Sapphire Guard was created to protect the Gate, and (incidentally, since it happened to be in the same place) Azure City. The presence of such a powerful evil being within Azure City's zone of control would be enough to trigger general alarm bells even without any specific threat to the Gate itself.