Best +10 Weapon You Can Get Pre-Epic.

[RelentlessImp]

So, I cruised over to Crystalkeep today (something I rarely do) and took a look at the weapon/armor enhancement abilities and decided to see what I could come up with.

This is what I came up with -

+1 ghost touch keen metalline morphing sure striking truebane two-handed melee weapon (+10)

Sure Striking (Player's Guide to Faerun pg 120) automatically overcomes X/law, X/chaos, X/good, X/evil damage reduction
Metalline (Underdark pg 69) takes a standard action to change the metal of your weapon into _any different metal_. Start with a basic steel, change it to adamantine, or cold iron, or...
Truebane (DR345 pg 23) - Bane vs your creature type, or becomes a bane weapon against the last creature it hit for 1 round.
Morphing (Underdark pg 69) - Changes the weapon into any oother weapon of the same type (light, one-hand, two-hand) as a standard action.
Ghost Touch (DMG pg224) Can strike incorporeal creatures
Keen (DMG pg225) - Doubles threat range.


You wind up with a very expensive weapon (200,000gp base price), which precludes this weapon from anything but high-level play - but assures that, with just a _little_ information about the kind of creature you're going up against (IE, two standard actions worth for changing the metal and weapon type, if necessary) damage reduction stops actually mattering. (It pretty much stops mattering by the time you can have this weapon, but still.)

Then I started thinking; what's the strongest/most versatile weapon others can come up with with all the weapon enhancements available? Let's see what you guys can come up with. ^_^

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Get rid of the Keen enhancement, buy a Scabbard of Keen Edges.

[Keld Denar]

Starting with Starmetal

+1
+2 Transmuting (MIC)
+2 Wounding (DMG)
+2 Collision (MIC)
+1 Viscious (DMG)
+2 Holy (DMG)
+ Prismatic (30,000g, MIC?)
+ Sudden Stunning (2000g, DMGII)
+ Blueshine (500g, MIC)
+ Greater Energy Assault Crystal (Acid) (MIC)

On a greatsword, would hit for 9d6+5 and a point of Con, of which only the Holy and Acid damage are partially applicable. Can also force a Cha based Reflex save vs stunned for 1d4+1 rounds, exposes the target to a prismatic blast of energy, and is completely immune to any and all rusting effects and is able to overcome ANY DR after the first hit.

Alternatively, as a bow.

+1 Composite Longbow
+3 Splitting
+2 Exit Wounds
+2 Force
+2 Holy

and fire +1 Flaming Frost Shock Acid Bane Sacred Etc arrows.

Each arrow splits into 2, which penetrate the first target and strike another target behind him. That means that each arrow you fire could potentially hit 4 enemies. Force ignores all DR, hardness, and incorporiality, and only like, 2 creatures in the whole game have resistance to it.

[Starbuck_II]

Isn't illusion Bane (+1) a worthy thing to add since high level enemies rely on Illusion based concealment like Displacement, Blur, etc?

[Keld Denar]

I thought Illusion Bane was in DMGII and only cost a 2000g? It then synergizes with Illusion Theft, which is TOTALLY broken if you have a Shadowcraft Mage around. Yes, now your WHOLE TEAM can have their own personal Earth/Air Elemental Monolith to fight your battles for you.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Or you can play a Warblade with Stone Power and Shards of Granite and never have to worry about DR... and let's not forget the 10 temp hit points every turn.

Honestly, here's a better weapon:

Defending (+1), Keen (+1), Ghost Touch of Collision (+2)

It's an effective +6 weapon (+1 for basic enchantment, then +5 for the extras)

Then you GMW it up to a +5 Defending Keen Ghost Touch Collision weapon. Have fun.

[Kris Strife]

Yes, now your WHOLE TEAM can have their own personal Earth/Air Elemental Monolith to fight your battles for you.

This of course leads to making them fight each other.

[AslanCross]

Starting with Starmetal
+ Blueshine (500g, MIC)


Blueshine is an armor property and costs 1500 GP.

[Pandaren]

All wrong, any combination

+

All "surges", with a decent Charisma bonus, you can bypass most DR's and add at least +5d6 to your attack. Surge In the DMG2, I'm assuming 3.5, +2,000 gold for each power.

Keen is good, unless you take the Improved Crit feat instead, either way, using a rapier with either of those, along with the "burst" power gives you extra damage 30% of the time.

[mostlyharmful]

There is no 'best' weapon, there's so many diff things it could be used for - damage, reliability, special properties, cool look, fitting feats, specific enemy, whatever.....

this is why getting that magic quiver that lets you quickdraw several different swords is a good idea, then you can have a dozen +1 versions which you can be magic weaponed, keen sheathed and whatever to the opponents in frount of you.

[AslanCross]

All "surges", with a decent Charisma bonus, you can bypass most DR's and add at least +5d6 to your attack. Surge In the DMG2, I'm assuming 3.5, +2,000 gold for each power.


Relying on elemental damage past certain levels is rarely a good thing, especially considering this is supposed to be pre-epic. Many monsters will have resistances to multiple energy types by then, and +5d6 will rarely matter.

[The Mormegil]

Magebane is a must on ANY weapon. At high level EVERYTHING has either spells or spell-like abilities - that's practically a +2/+2d6 on EVERY attack and damage.

Also, get rid of keen and Improved Critical, find a scabbard of keen edges. Don't waste your money on energy damage either (no, not even the crystal, get the one that gives you bonuses if you dip it into blood or something - that's good if you carry around some flasks - or even the one that gives you +10 vs disarm and allows you to call it from far away).

Wounding would seem like a decent enhancement, but if you start using it expect your DM to cast death ward on every enemy before battle. Same for level-draining ones.

Truebane is good, force is good, kinetic is good (+5 flat untyped damage for a +2).

Splitting is oh so good on ranged weapons... works wonders.

Holy is possibly the best enhancement ever, since it works on practically every enemy and surpasses DR/good. Also, it opens up Holy Surge (wow!) and Heavenly Burst (critical damage - meh. Critical HOLY damage - good!).

But then, probably the best weapon is one with the capacity to cast brilliant aura and greater magic weapon at will. And is intelligent (1800 gp, it can use powers for you). If your DM allows for that kind of cheese, anyway, you can probably find something completely outrageous. Start with Wraithstrike at will cast by the sword, then continue.

[Ganurath]

+5 Throwing Returning Explosive Unarmed Strike on a Monk/Kensai diplomancer, if you're looking for best in terms of Rule of Cool/Funny. In terms of RP flavor, I'd favor a +5 Coup de Grace Falchion in the hands of a Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny to create a brutal executioner of The Final Fate.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's no single 'best' weapon, as it will depend entirely on the character using it. There are some top-end abilities that anyone should consider, a few of my favorites are:

Wrathful Healing (+3) in Enemies and Allies, in a sidebar on the left side of the left page near the center of the book. You're healed for half of any damage you deal with the weapon. Power attack and deal 60 damage per hit, and it heals you for 30 per hit. Especially good for characters who take/deal a lot of damage, such as a Barbarian and/or Frenzied Berserker, or someone who's built primarily to survive, such as a Crusader.

Magebane (+1) in Complete Arcane, it's the same as the Bane property in the DMG (+2 extra Enhancement, +2d6 damage) but against anything that casts arcane spells or has even one arcane spell as a spell-like ability. That's over half the creatures in the game.

Displacement (+100,000 gp) in Oriental Adventures, it may have been reprinted somewhere else but that's the only place I know of to find it. Any time you're holding the weapon you get the effect of a Displacement spell, i.e. all attacks have a 50% miss chance against you due to concealment. You can make a +10 weapon, then add this on top of it.

Sudden Stunning (+2,000 gp) in DMG2, melee only, good for high Cha characters. On a successful melee attack you can use a swift action to force the creature struck to make a Fortitude save or be stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. It's usable a number of times per day equal to your Cha modifier, the DC is 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha modifier.

Valorous (+1) in Unapproachable East, it causes the weapon to deal double damage when used in a charge. Note that if you have the ability to make a full-attack at the end of a charge, every one of those attacks will deal double damage as long as they're made with a Valorous weapon.

Seeking (+1) in the DMG is great for any primary melee weapon, though it must be usable as a ranged weapon to have this property. Use a Trident just because it has a range increment and can be Seeking, and you'll get to make Anchorman references about killing a guy with a trident.

It's no surprise that Speed and Wounding are big favorites.


I'd probably say that the 'best' +10 weapon for any character would be +1 Illithidwrought, Eager, Defending, Warning, Deflecting, Last Resort, Spell Storing, Power Storing Armor Spikes with Parrying, Displacement, Initiative, Agility, Balance, Flying, and any other passive abilities with a set gp cost rather than an effective enhancement bonus cost. With GMW cast on it, of course.

Illithidwrought: +1 attack and damage rolls with all weapons, or +2 if you're a psionic creature. Eager: +2 initiative, unnamed. Defending: the +5 Enhancement bonus can be converted to AC. Warning: +5 Insight bonus on initiative. Deflecting: once per round if a ranged weapon would hit you, you may attempt a DC 20 Reflex save to knock it away harmlessly. Last Resort: you do not suffer the standard -4 penalty for attacking in a grapple with it, and it deals an extra +1d6 damage for every size category the opponent is bigger than you by. Spell Storing: hire an NPC spellcaster to put a Maximized Vampiric Touch into it, you can release it to deal/heal 60 points automatically. Power Storing: hire an NPC Psychic Warrior to place an Empathic Transfer, Hostile into this so when it is released, 50 points of damage is transferred from you to the target, limited by how much damage you've already sustained.

Parrying: +1 Insight bonus to AC and saving throws. Displacement: all attack rolls have a 50% chance to outright miss you, as per the spell of the same name. Initiative: +2 Luck bonus on initiative. Agility: +6 Resistance bonus on Reflex saves. Balance: +8 Competence bonus on Balance checks. Flying: three times per day it can use the Fly spell with a 50 minute duration.

The purpose of this weapon is to grant passive abilities just for wearing the armor spikes, and for it to be super-useful just in case you get grappled.

[RelentlessImp]

*snip*
Wrathful Healing (+3) in Enemies and Allies, in a sidebar on the left side of the left page near the center of the book. You're healed for half of any damage you deal with the weapon. Power attack and deal 60 damage per hit, and it heals you for 30 per hit. Especially good for characters who take/deal a lot of damage, such as a Barbarian and/or Frenzied Berserker, or someone who's built primarily to survive, such as a Crusader.
*snip*
Valorous (+1) in Unapproachable East, it causes the weapon to deal double damage when used in a charge. Note that if you have the ability to make a full-attack at the end of a charge, every one of those attacks will deal double damage as long as they're made with a Valorous weapon.


...and now I have visions of unkillable Leap Attacking Pouncing Shock Troopers in my head. Thank you for that.

[Zeta Kai]

Get rid of the Keen enhancement, buy a Scabbard of Keen Edges.

Oh yeah, 16,000gp for a +1 enhancement. That's a good deal, right? :smallamused:

[wadledo]

Oh yeah, 16,000gp for a +1 enhancement. That's a good deal, right? :smallamused:

That's 16000 vs. 18000, or 22000, or 26000, or 30000, or 34000, or 38000. :smallamused:

[Zeta Kai]

That's 16000 vs. 18000, or 22000, or 26000, or 30000, or 34000, or 38000. :smallamused:

Or versus 6,000 or 10,000. And if you're gonna make the enhancements in installments (for anyone who doesn't have 200kgp on-hand), then keen would be one of the first things you'd add, because it's always useful & relatively cheap. I'm just saying that the scabbard isn't a good deal for an enhancement that you can get much cheaper early on. If you wanna buy it later for way more money, then fine, go ahead. But it's only a good deal later in the process.

[jcsw]

Or versus 6,000 or 10,000. And if you're gonna make the enhancements in installments (for anyone who doesn't have 200kgp on-hand), then keen would be one of the first things you'd add, because it's always useful & relatively cheap. I'm just saying that the scabbard isn't a good deal for an enhancement that you can get much cheaper early on. If you wanna buy it later for way more money, then fine, go ahead. But it's only a good deal later in the process.

Since this is a thread about +10 weapons, any +1 you can get without actually paying directly(ie, on the weapon itself) for is worth it. In fact, the scabbard allows for a pseudo-+11 Weapon.

[Kornaki]

Or versus 6,000 or 10,000. And if you're gonna make the enhancements in installments (for anyone who doesn't have 200kgp on-hand), then keen would be one of the first things you'd add, because it's always useful & relatively cheap. I'm just saying that the scabbard isn't a good deal for an enhancement that you can get much cheaper early on. If you wanna buy it later for way more money, then fine, go ahead. But it's only a good deal later in the process.

If you're buying a +10 sword, you might as well not add on the keen. It doesn't matter if it's the 'first' or the 'last' enhancement you add, it costs the same in the end

[shadow_archmagi]

Or versus 6,000 or 10,000. And if you're gonna make the enhancements in installments (for anyone who doesn't have 200kgp on-hand), then keen would be one of the first things you'd add, because it's always useful & relatively cheap. I'm just saying that the scabbard isn't a good deal for an enhancement that you can get much cheaper early on. If you wanna buy it later for way more money, then fine, go ahead. But it's only a good deal later in the process.

Truely; it's not about *price* it's about "You have 10 slots to enchant. Do you spend a slot on something you could get otherwise?"

[Ixahinon]

For Undead:

+5 Holy Surge of Undead Bane

For Constructs:

+5 Smiting of Construct Bane

For Everything Else that's Living:

+5 Wounding of Puncturing

Wounding = 1 point of con taken per hit.
Puncturing = 1d6 points of con taken per critical hit.

Keen it somehow, or take Improved Critical. Find it on a rapier or
scimitar...and the world is yours.

EDIT: Now that I think about it..Puncturing might be the wrong name for that...don't have my books on me.

[Choco]

Oh yeah, 16,000gp for a +1 enhancement. That's a good deal, right? :smallamused:

It is actually. You look at it as paying 16,000gp for a +1 enhancement. I look at it as paying 16,000gp to be able to add an additional +1 enhancement to the weapon, making it a +11 weapon even though it is +10 :smalltongue:

[Starbuck_II]

I thought Illusion Bane was in DMGII and only cost a 2000g? It then synergizes with Illusion Theft, which is TOTALLY broken if you have a Shadowcraft Mage around. Yes, now your WHOLE TEAM can have their own personal Earth/Air Elemental Monolith to fight your battles for you.

Nope MIC is newest version, pg 36, +1 enhancement. Continous ability to ignore miss chances from illusion. 1/day dispel each illusion spell affecting target (1d20+10) vs normal Dispel magic caster of spell. Each illusion is rolled against (chance of dispelling at least one is high).

[Belial_the_Leveler]

The correct answer to this question is "NONE", people. While a DM could offer a +10 weapon or armor as treasure, you can't "get" such an item by choice; it needs a CL 30 to create so unless there's an Epic Artificer that makes them, you can't buy one and you obviously can't craft one.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The correct answer to this question is "NONE", people. While a DM could offer a +10 weapon or armor as treasure, you can't "get" such an item by choice; it needs a CL 30 to create so unless there's an Epic Artificer that makes them, you can't buy one and you obviously can't craft one.CL 30 is difficult, not impossible, depending on how much you want to sacrifice other aspects of your Cleric. Also, UMD check to emulate CL 30 isn't exactly hard, especially since an Artificer can take 10. No need for Epic.

Also, Wish.

[Chronos]

Magebane is a must on ANY weapon. At high level EVERYTHING has either spells or spell-like abilities - that's practically a +2/+2d6 on EVERY attack and damage.Reprinted and nerfed in MiC. Now, it only applies to things that cast spells or use invocations, not to everything with an SLA. Could still be useful, depending on how many of your opponents are characters with class levels, as opposed to monsters.

[Dhavaer]

The correct answer to this question is "NONE", people. While a DM could offer a +10 weapon or armor as treasure, you can't "get" such an item by choice; it needs a CL 30 to create so unless there's an Epic Artificer that makes them, you can't buy one and you obviously can't craft one.

Untrue!


Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

So you can get a +4 weapon with +6 worth of special abilities pre-epic without boosting your caster level.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If it's a weapon, ring, wondrous item, or piece of armor, a Midgard Dwarf in Frostburn can make it, regardless of its prerequisites.

Take at least one level of Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a), preferably 2-4, and take Leadership for a Fiend of Possession cohort. Get a +1 weapon with +9 worth of special abilities. Get Greater Magic Weapon +5 cast on it. Have your cohort possess it. It now has a +6 Enhancement bonus and +15 worth of special abilities, effectively a +21 weapon that can overcome DR/Epic, prior to the epic levels.

[herrhauptmann]

I recommend removing the ghosttouch and instead get a truedeath and demolition crystal.
If you make the weapon a +3 with 7slots of enhancements, you can get the greater crystals (which includes the witchlight resevoir that needs to be soaked in wine,blood, sunlight, moonlight). Truedeath and demolition allow you to critical their appropriate targets.

[Logalmier]

Keen Vorporal Icy Burst Bane Falchion. I once played a Ranger that had two of these.:smallbiggrin: At a natural 14 he could decapitate any foe, and he got six attacks per round.

[The White Knight]

Untrue!



So you can get a +4 weapon with +6 worth of special abilities pre-epic without boosting your caster level.

I read that as meaning that you used either 3x the enhancement bonus or the highest CL requirement of the individual special abilities as the CL requirement (not the higher of 3x the enhancement bonus or 3x the ability bonuses). So you could still do +1 enhancement with +9 in special abilities pre-epic, so long as no single special ability had a caster level in the epic reaches.

[Sanguine]

Keen Vorporal Icy Burst Bane Falchion. I once played a Ranger that had two of these.:smallbiggrin: At a natural 14 he could decapitate any foe, and he got six attacks per round.

How does that work? Vorpal only works on a natural 20.

[The White Knight]

How does that work? Vorpal only works on a natural 20.

Not to mention a falchion with an improved crit range crits on a 15. Sounds like some treacherous houseruling to me.

[Logalmier]

How does that work? Vorpal only works on a natural 20.

In the sentence after that it says you need to roll again to confirm the critical hit. This led me to believe that you need just need a critical hit to activate a Vorpal sword, and that the 20 was there by default.


Not to mention a falchion with an improved crit range crits on a 15. Sounds like some treacherous houseruling to me.

My bad. My character had the improved critical feat, and I was counting that. It's also been a while since I played him, and so I might be mixing up the numbers.

[ZeroNumerous]

Keen and Improved Critical don't stack, so yes it is a house rule.

[Ixahinon]

And you can only vorpal on a 20, regardless the critical threat range. You roll a 15-19 on a Falchion with Keen Vorpal on it...you just critically threat...not vorpal. Now if you roll a natrual 20...you vorpal.

That game you played scares me. If Keen, Improved Critical, and the spell Keen Edge stacked..you are looking at something like 12-20 critical range on any normal 18-20 crit range weapon.

[9mm]

I've always been partial to the following enhancements:

Wounding (1 con damage)
Marrow Crushing (1 con Damage)
Ghost Touch
Prismatic (prismatic spray on crit)
Enfeebling (1d6 stackable strength damage on crit)
Burst (weapon puts out a 5ft burst on hit, mostly done for the lolz)
Resounding (gives allys moral bonuses on hits)

no idea idea if that equals ten or or not.

[erikun]

They stacked back in 3.0 edition. For that matter, I think Vorpal worked off of any critical, too... you can see why they changed the rules for 3.5. :smallwink: I'm more curious as to how he was dual-wielding Falchions. Then again, Monkey Grip acted differently back then, too.

I'm wondering why everyone is giving up the +5 for a bunch of abilities, though. Especially stuff like Keen, which can be replaced with a feat (or spell). I'd think the extra to-hit would be more important than the extra +1d6 damage in some cases.

Anyways, if you're talking about best against a specific target, I would say a +5 alignment alignment x-bane appropriate-material weapon would work best. Against a demon, for example, a +5 holy lawful demonbane cold iron greatsword hits for +7 and deals 8d6+7 (plus other bonuses) per hit, and cuts through their damage reduction. Sure, it's a bit less effective against other enemies, but it's probably the best demon-slaying weapon your pre-epic money can buy.

[Arakune]

I'm wondering why everyone is giving up the +5 for a bunch of abilities, though. Especially stuff like Keen, which can be replaced with a feat (or spell).

The +5 you can get with a spell (Greater Magic Weapon), the keen most of the posters advice for an item.

[deuxhero]

Not to mention a falchion with an improved crit range crits on a 15. Sounds like some treacherous houseruling to me.

I think Vorpol worked on any critical in 3.0 from things I have read on why improved critical effects don't stack (why they had to make it both 20s only AND no stacking I don't know)

[herrhauptmann]

I think Vorpol worked on any critical in 3.0 from things I have read on why improved critical effects don't stack (why they had to make it both 20s only AND no stacking I don't know)
Because stacking critical effects leads to abuse?
Scimitar 18-20 range of 3.
Keen(+2 enhancement): range*2.
Improved Crit Feat: range *2.
Vorpal(+5): Beheading on crit.
Blessed(+2?): Auto crit on evil creatures.
Since D&D has wierd doubling rules, Doublinga double is a triple. So 3*3=9

You now have a +1 weapon that automatically beheads an evil creature on a 12-20.

[Sanguine]

Because stacking critical effects leads to abuse?
Scimitar 18-20 range of 3.
Keen(+2 enhancement): range*2.
Improved Crit Feat: range *2.
Vorpal(+5): Beheading on crit.
Blessed(+2?): Auto crit on evil creatures.
Since D&D has wierd doubling rules, Doublinga double is a triple. So 3*3=9

You now have a +1 weapon that automatically beheads an evil creature on a 12-20.

You forgot the Weapon Master PrC.

[RelentlessImp]

You forgot the Weapon Master PrC.

And making it out of lambent (+1 to crit range).

[Talic]

For those that Look into getting keen, the most accurate way to determine cost effectiveness:

+10 weapon = 200,000 g.

That's +1 per 20,000g, on average. Getting a scabbard of Keen edges on a weapon that is already a +10 equivalent makes it a +11 for 216,000.

That makes the last "+1" cheaper than 6 of the 10 before it, and less expensive than the overall average. Good buy on high end weapons, bad buy on low end weapons. As this is a high end weapon? Good buy.

For those adding 72 of those +2000g abilities? If the overall cost of the weapon is over 200,000g, it's considered epic by RAW.

[J.Gellert]

Wasn't there a table someplace pre-3.5 that basically said:

"A +2 weapon is better than a +1 flaming or a +1 keen weapon most of the time"

You don't need fancy enchantments. :smalltongue:

[paddyfool]

Although I highly approve GMW, those going this route should factor in the cost of a Pearl of Power for their caster buddy. Whether he's a Wizard (in which case it'd cost 9000) or a Cleric (16000), it's still mega-cheap compared to ramping up the enchantment itself to +5.

[erikun]

Wasn't there a table someplace pre-3.5 that basically said:

"A +2 weapon is better than a +1 flaming or a +1 keen weapon most of the time"

You don't need fancy enchantments. :smalltongue:
That's what I said, but I forgot about this part:

The +5 you can get with a spell (Greater Magic Weapon), the keen most of the posters advice for an item.

Rely on magical spells breaking the game by allowing a +14 weapon pre-epic. :smallsigh:

[deuxhero]

Because stacking critical effects leads to abuse?
Scimitar 18-20 range of 3.
Keen(+2 enhancement): range*2.
Improved Crit Feat: range *2.
Vorpal(+5): Beheading on crit.
Blessed(+2?): Auto crit on evil creatures.
Since D&D has wierd doubling rules, Doublinga double is a triple. So 3*3=9

You now have a +1 weapon that automatically beheads an evil creature on a 12-20.

Yeah, but if they made vorpol only on a nat 20 there wouldn't be that much an issue with a 8/20 chance of a critical hit (and that ammounts to double damage)