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Brom
2009-06-13, 09:42 PM
I heard there was a class feature or a feat somewhere that allowed you to add any spell as a Beguiler.

Anyone know what it is?

And if there is general advice for Beguilers of all levels (making my first one ever, level 12 Human) do tell.

Pyron
2009-06-13, 09:53 PM
I heard there was a class feature or a feat somewhere that allowed you to add any spell as a Beguiler.

Anyone know what it is?

And if there is general advice for Beguilers of all levels (making my first one ever, level 12 Human) do tell.

What you're referring to is Advanced Learning which is only one spell at certain levels (3,7, etc.) and they can only be Wizard's Illusion or Enchantment. The ACF is Eccentric Learning, which can learn any wizard spell at a higher level (for example Fireball would be a 4th level spell). The only other way is to use PrC classes like Rainbow Savant, Prestige Bard, or Sandshaper.

Reading material: Beguiler Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2322.0)

Brom
2009-06-13, 09:57 PM
What is Eccentric Learning in?

Sanguine
2009-06-13, 10:00 PM
What is Eccentric Learning in?

I may be wrong on this, but I believe it is one of there regular class features.

Flickerdart
2009-06-13, 10:04 PM
It's Eclectic Learning, and in Complete Arcane (I think) PHBII for the Warmage. It's just widely accepted that Beguilers can have it too.

Edited for correctedness.

Pyron
2009-06-13, 10:06 PM
I may be wrong on this, but I believe it is one of there regular class features.

Actually, it's technically a Warmage alternative class feature (PH2). They can trade that in for the standard for their Advanced Learning.

Since Warmage / Beguiler / Dread Necromancers have the similar spellcasting mechanics, you might be able to use Eclectic Learning for Beguilers. Consult your DM first.

FMArthur
2009-06-13, 10:08 PM
Eclectic Learning. It's in the Warmage's "alternative class feature" section of PHBII, replacing Advanced Learning.


...and they say ninjas are a weak class. Bah! :smallannoyed:

Cedrass
2009-06-13, 10:42 PM
I actually had a Ninja do really great in my group. Well he wasn't the strongest on the team but he was ok, my Druid helped him a lot to take advantage of is Sudden Strike and some Sneak Attack feats I can't remember.

More on topic though, I say don't go for Eclectic Learning even if your DM permits it. It's not like you want to start and launch Fireballs at your enemies. Plus Illusions have Shadow Evocation and Shadow Conjuration to fill in the gaps. Plus you have some pretty nice save or dies in the higher levels.

Also, you might want to take a prestige class before you get your second Advanced Learning (which is at lvl 7 if my memory serves right). Of course you'll want a prestige class that boosts your spells known/per day as if you had gained a Beguiler level, that way you'll get a spell one level higher than you could normally. Mindbender is a good one, as is Shadow Adept since they pretty much give you the feats required when you level up. Anything that advances your casting is good though. (Well not anything, but you get the idea).

Also, you want a Runestaff (I know they are in Magic Item Compedium, maybe somewhere else). It'll greatly add to your arsenal if you DM allows you to use UMD to activate them (it's not exactly RAW but my DM is ok with it).

Thurbane
2009-06-13, 10:48 PM
I believe with the right amount of cheese and the Rainbow Servant PrC the Beguiler can cast any Cleric spell.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-13, 10:55 PM
I believe with the right amount of cheese and the Rainbow Servant PrC the Beguiler can cast any Cleric spell.

Depending on which side of the Text/Table controversy your GM is on...

BenTheJester
2009-06-14, 12:59 AM
A particularly giving DM might accept that the Extra Spell feat can make you learn any spell, but this is against RAI

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-14, 01:35 AM
I'll agree that your regular Advanced Learning ability is considerably better than using Eclectic Learning. If you take the feat Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon you'll be able to cast spells of one level higher than your current highest level (both RAI and RAW (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20080603a)), which in turn gains you knowledge of all spells of that level the same way you would gain knowledge of them by gaining spell slots of that level by advancing your class level. Each time you gain Advanced/Eclectic Learning, you'll be able to cast spells one level higher than you otherwise would. If you take Mindbender 1 at your 6th character level, a must-have for any serious Beguiler, you'll get your Advanced/Eclectic Learning one level later than normal, thus enabling you to apply them to spells of yet one level higher.

If you use both of those (one feat and one prestige class level that you qualify for without trying) your available spell level at a given class level is as follows: Beguiler 3: 2nd; Beguiler 7: 5th; Beguiler 11: 7th; Beguiler 15: 9th; Beguiler 19: 9th. Here are some suggestions for spells to gain via Advanced Learning, my choices are italicized:
Beguiler 3: Ray of Stupidity, Dark Way, Entice Gift (BoVD)
Beguiler 7: Shadow Form, Shadow Evocation
Beguiler 11: Greater Shadow Conjuration, Solipsism, Final Rebuke
Beguiler 15/19: Superior Invisibility, Mindrape (BoVD), Ice Assassin (FB), Greater Shadow Evocation, Wrathful Castigation, Shades