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Grynning
2009-06-14, 12:25 AM
So, we're starting a Star Wars game tomorrow, in the KOTOR Era, a few years before the new MMO is about start (so post Sith invasion). Most of the party are Jedi, and the focus will be on a Jedi Covenant.

I had originally built a Duros Scoundrel/Consular party face type character, but another player really wants to play a Noble/Consular so that role is now being filled. We are left without a serious damage dealer, as the other party members are going with a Dex based defender Jedi (building towards Jedi Watchmen talents) and a Scout/Jedi Sentinel skill monkey/sneaky type. So I am now making a Human Jedi Guardian, and I really want to be able to dish out punishment. I have an idea but this is my first SWSE game so I'm not quite sure how to optimize it.

My new backstory is that my character is the child of a female Jedi and a male Mandolorian who got together by circumstance battling the Sith, who was raised by the Jedi order due to his odd heritage. I want him to be strong, stoic and most of all, a powerful saber fighter.

House rules: We are using 4th ed D&D point buy and racial stat modifiers, so as a Human I have +2 to any one stat. Standard 4th ed point buy is roughly equivalent to a 30 point buy in regular SWSE if you're not a D&D person.

We will be 5th level, and the books available are the main rulebook, the KOTOR sourcebook, and the Jedi academy sourcebook (which I haven't had a chance to look at yet). I'd like to stick mostly to the main book for my initial build since it's the only one I actually own atm.

My basic plan so far is to go Jedi 3/Soldier 2 (Jedi levels first) and go with a Power Attack/Powerful Charge/Battle Strike build. I may end up wearing armor since I have to sacrifice Dex and Con a bit with this build since I need Cha and Wis for force powers.

My initial stats:

Str 13 (15 after racial bump), Dex 13, Con 13, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 14

At level 5, Strength will be 16 and either Dex or Con will be 14.

Talents I know for sure would be Weap. Spec. Lightsabre and Melee Smash (soldier), still undecided on the other 2.

Feats: Force Training, Power Attack and Powerful Charge, for sure, plus armor proficiency from Soldier level, maybe work Quick Draw in since I just like it and SWSE doesn't let you draw as you move.

Powers: I plan on Battle Strike and Surge, but I'm torn on getting another Battle Strike or getting another power, anyone think of any that are must-haves?

So, anyways, I'm asking for a little help fleshing out the build, if anyone has any suggestions please post them soon. Thanks!

(I'm really looking forward to this game btw, I love Star Wars :smallbiggrin:)

NPCMook
2009-06-14, 04:37 AM
The Melee Duelist Prestige Class, gives you the ability to make Double Attacks as a Standard Action instead of a Full Action...

Jedi Academy has some nice Lightsaber based powers, spend a feat to get Skill Focus: Use the Force, for the +5 it gives you, you gain like 18-19 feats, I think its definitely worth it.

Dropping a level in Scout to gain a +2 to your speed while wearing Light or No Armor also helps you get into combat.

RelentlessImp
2009-06-14, 04:43 AM
Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 2/Sith Apprentice 1/Jedi Master 5/Sith Lord 5

Boost the hell out of your Dexterity.

Grab Two Weapon Fighting & Double Attack.
Grab the Ataru talent from Jedi Knight (dex to damage).

Force Powers: Move Object, Move Object, Move Object. It's the best straight out Attack power there. Defenses scale too high too fast, but Jedi owns the game until about 12-ish, when your Defenses start building faster than your Skill Ranks.

With the above suggestions, you've got some pretty killer defenses (+3 to everything), and your Force Secrets from Master/Lord make your Powers potentially devastating. The real trick, though, is you'll have a full 20BAB, to apply to having 4 attacks per round (TWF+Double Attack). Don't take Triple Attack, it's a trap.

Take other Force Powers and talents to flavor, but grab the aforementioned ones as fast as possible if you want to be a melee brute with reliance on a single stat.

Uin
2009-06-14, 04:52 AM
I often give my Jedi classes and PrCs outside JK and JM. If I was to make a melee monster I'd maybe take some Elite Trooper (from the image I got of the characters style, strength based, melee duelist is more for dex based) if you have already branched out with some Soldier. I'd dump melee smash however, with the books you are using it doesn't lead to anything great. Have you thought about a particular lightsaber form your character might want to use, you could force train in some lightsaber powers early (to make your melee more interesting) then take JK talents to top them up later. Perhaps some Juyo for sheer power and Sokan for movement, you want to be able to reach your target. If you are taking Lightsaber Form powers Battle Strike is a little dull in comparison. If you think you'll be wearing armour (which fits the setting you're in) then you can use mechanics to upgrade for lots of nice little bits and pieces which makes armour a great utility.



Skills to start: Acrobatics, Initiative, UtF
Jedi Block Force Training (Move Object, Surge, Unhindered Charge), Weapon Focus,
Soldier Weapon Spec
Jedi Bonus feat Force Training (Assured Strike, Negate Energy, Rebuke), Martial Arts
Soldier Bonus feat Rapid Strike
Soldier Armour Defense


Afterwards maybe think about:
Flurry to get into ET
Acrobatic Recovery to take Sokan from JK
Mechanics (int bump/skill training) for Tech Specialist (appeared in SotG but only after the very first web enchancement for core)

EDIT: Editted for Jedi at level 1.

RelentlessImp
2009-06-14, 04:55 AM
He needs to take Jedi at 1st level - so swap the first Jedi and Soldier levels around (taking whichever armor prof he really wants from the multiclass). The reason is so he doesn't blow a Feat on Force Sensitivity or Weapon Prof (lightsaber).

Otherwise, I actually really like the way that build looks, Uin.

Uin
2009-06-14, 04:58 AM
He needs to take Jedi at 1st level - so swap the first Jedi and Soldier levels around (taking whichever armor prof he really wants from the multiclass). The reason is so he doesn't blow a Feat on Force Sensitivity or Weapon Prof (lightsaber).

Otherwise, I actually really like the way that build looks, Uin.

Ack, well spotted. I really like to have more than the 2 skills Jedi grants, it would be a rare occasion indeed where my first character level was not noble, scout or soldier.

RelentlessImp
2009-06-14, 05:03 AM
Yeah, the Jedi's 2+INT mod skills per level kinda sucks; and all the errata did was add MORE skills to their class list (Persuasion, for instance).

If you want to go the more Warrior than Jedi route, pick up 1-3 levels of Elite Trooper for Advanced Armor Defense (or whatever it's called) that lets you add half your Armor Class to your Level Bonus to AC, and then the upgrade that lets you add ALL your AC from a piece of armor to your Level bonus.

NPCMook
2009-06-14, 05:10 AM
Jedi 6/Jedi Knight 2/Sith Apprentice 2/Jedi Master 5/Sith Lord 5

Boost the hell out of your Dexterity.

Grab Two Weapon Fighting & Double Attack.
Grab the Ataru talent from Jedi Knight (dex to damage).

Force Powers: Move Object, Move Object, Move Object. It's the best straight out Attack power there. Defenses scale too high too fast, but Jedi owns the game until about 12-ish, when your Defenses start building faster than your Skill Ranks.

With the above suggestions, you've got some pretty killer defenses (+3 to everything), and your Force Secrets from Master/Lord make your Powers potentially devastating. The real trick, though, is you'll have a full 20BAB, to apply to having 4 attacks per round (TWF+Double Attack). Don't take Triple Attack, it's a trap.

Take other Force Powers and talents to flavor, but grab the aforementioned ones as fast as possible if you want to be a melee brute with reliance on a single stat.

Your build is illegal, you must build a lightsaber to enter the Jedi Knight PrC, to build your own Lightsaber you must have 7 Heroic Levels, and Sith Apprentice you must have 7 levels before you can take the class.

RelentlessImp
2009-06-14, 05:19 AM
Whoops. I keep forgetting about the Build Lightsaber prerequisite. Sorry. I love the SWSE system but I rarely get a chance to play it. x.x

NPCMook
2009-06-14, 05:21 AM
Whoops. I keep forgetting about the Build Lightsaber prerequisite. Sorry. I love the SWSE system but I rarely get a chance to play it. x.x

I know the Feeling, the only guy who runs star wars games around here uses the old WEG d6 rules... its a decent system, but combat is terrible :smallfurious:

RelentlessImp
2009-06-14, 05:23 AM
Build is changed to be more or less the same, but legal.

NPCMook
2009-06-14, 06:39 AM
Melee Duelist would allow you to make a Triple attack as a Standard Action, and there are several feats/talents to reduce -10 you would take, but since a Lightsaber technically isn't an Advanced or Exotic weapon you would have to spend a few extra feats to even Qualify for the class, unless your DM is willing to consider a Lightsaber Exotic.

I would also Recommend taking Follow through as a feat, along with Cleave, by RAW it technically works with Great Cleave as well since it says whenever you drop an enemy to 0 hit points you can take a move action, before cleaving.

I would also recommend picking up Martial Artist, if you can afford it somewhere, since it gives you a +1 Reflex defense each Rank.

Savage Attack also isn't a bad feat to pick up, but it requires you to have Double Attack. +1 die of Damage when you hit your first attack to all remaining attacks in your Full-Attack.

Attack Combo (Strike) makes Triple attack worth it since if you hit with your First two attacks your third attack will deal an additional Die of Damage, and until the end of your next turn you will deal an Extra die of damage with all your attacks.

Follow Through: Jedi Academy
Martial Artist: Core Rulebook
Savage Attack: Force Unleashed CG
Attack Combo (Strike): Legacy Era CG

Edit: So if you can get your DM to consider a Lightsaber Advanced/Exotic or if you are willing to burn two feats to qualify, I highly recommend going Melee Duelist so you can Full-Attacks as a Standard Action while wielding One Weapon. Also, get a Long Hilt Lightsaber, while wielding them with both Hands you can forgo adding double your Str/Dex, depending on what build you use, to roll 2d10 rather than 2d8.

So with Triple Attack, Savage Attack, Rapid Strike and Attack Combo (Strike); on excellent rolls you would deal 3d10/4d10/5d10 as a standard action, mind you with that you would be rolling at a -12 to each attack roll:smallfrown:

Grynning
2009-06-14, 08:42 AM
I often give my Jedi classes and PrCs outside JK and JM. If I was to make a melee monster I'd maybe take some Elite Trooper (from the image I got of the characters style, strength based, melee duelist is more for dex based) if you have already branched out with some Soldier. I'd dump melee smash however, with the books you are using it doesn't lead to anything great. Have you thought about a particular lightsaber form your character might want to use, you could force train in some lightsaber powers early (to make your melee more interesting) then take JK talents to top them up later. Perhaps some Juyo for sheer power and Sokan for movement, you want to be able to reach your target. If you are taking Lightsaber Form powers Battle Strike is a little dull in comparison. If you think you'll be wearing armour (which fits the setting you're in) then you can use mechanics to upgrade for lots of nice little bits and pieces which makes armour a great utility.



Skills to start: Acrobatics, Initiative, UtF
Jedi Block Force Training (Move Object, Surge, Unhindered Charge), Weapon Focus,
Soldier Weapon Spec
Jedi Bonus feat Force Training (Assured Strike, Negate Energy, Rebuke), Martial Arts
Soldier Bonus feat Rapid Strike
Soldier Armour Defense


Afterwards maybe think about:
Flurry to get into ET
Acrobatic Recovery to take Sokan from JK
Mechanics (int bump/skill training) for Tech Specialist (appeared in SotG but only after the very first web enchancement for core)

EDIT: Editted for Jedi at level 1.

This is the closest to what I'm going for. Does Soldier allow you to take Weapon Spec. Lightsaber? Also, it seems like Devastating Attack is a very worthwhile talent, I may take that instead of Armored Defense for now.

Question: Where are the Assured Strike and Unhindered Charge powers found?

Edit: So I've figured out the build for now, minus those two force powers above.

Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 14

Skills: Initiative, Use the Force, Acrobatics, Jump

1 Jedi 1
Talent: Block, Feats: Weapon Focus LS, Force Training
2 Soldier 1
Talent: Devastating Attack (LS), Feat: Armor Proficiency Light
3 Jedi 2
Feats: Martial Arts, Force Training
4 Jedi 3
Talent: Weapon Spec: LS
5 Soldier 2
Feat: Rapid Strike

Next level will be Soldier for Armored Defense, since my level bonus will actually start to matter then (I plan on wearing +6 armor of some kind). I noticed Jedi Knight can actually select from the Armor Specialist tree, so that will take care of Improved Armored Defense. I do plan on taking Juyo and possibly Vaapad given the general lack of crit improvements in SWSE (unless there's a lightsaber crystal or something I can talk my GM into), and Sokan is attractive as well. I would really like to get 1 level in Elite Trooper for Greater Devastating Attack, but that would require me to burn another feat on Armor Prof: Medium, and I don't know if it's worth it. I still want to fit Power Attack into the build eventually, and of course other melee feats for multiple attacks and such.

Level 20 progression as I see it:
Jedi 5, Soldier 3, Jedi Knight 7, Elite Trooper 1, Jedi Master 4

NPCMook
2009-06-14, 04:38 PM
Those powers are in the Jedi Academy Source Book under Lightsaber powers

Edit: No crystals that improve your chance of crits, only deal an additional die of damage on a crit, there are several that help with Block and deflect chances

Philistine
2009-06-15, 02:25 AM
Jedi 7/Jedi Knight 2/Sith Apprentice 1/Jedi Master 5/Sith Lord 5


This still isn't legal - you can't get into either Jedi Master or Sith Lord prior to level 13.

NPCMook
2009-06-15, 05:24 AM
Jedi 6/Scount 1/Melee Duelist 1/Jedi Knight 5/Jedi Master 5
Feats
Human - Weapon Proficiency - Vibroblade
Level 1 J - Weapon Focus - Lightsaber
Level 2 J - Rapid Strike
Level 3 J - Melee Defense
Level 4 J - Weapon Focus - Vibroblade
Level 5 S - Weapon Proficiency - Pistols
Level 6 J - Weapon Finesse - Lightsaber
Level 7 J - Double Attack
Level 9 JK - Savage Attack
Level 12 JK - Attack Combo (Strike)
Level 15 JM - Triple Attack
Level 18 JM - Flurry


Talents
Level 1 J - Weapon Specialization - Lightsaber
Level 3 J - Block
Level 5 S - Long Stride
Level 6 J - Mobile Combatant
Level 8 MD - Single Weapon Flourish I
Level 9 JK - Greater Weapon Focus - Lightsaber
Level 11 JK - Greater Weapon Specialization - Lightsaber
Level 13 JK - Multiattack Proficiency - Lightsaber
Level 14 JM - "
Level 16 JM - "
Level 18 JM - "


I'm aware I still have 2 levels to put something into, I'm just really not sure what... now for the number crunch!

BAB +17
Fort +5
Reflex +10
Will + 8

With a Dex of 17(+3)

That's +22/+22/+22
Again possibly dealing 3d10+6/4d10+6/5d10+6 using a Large Hilt Lightsaber with Both Hands, you may forgo dealing double your Strength mod for using d10 instead.

Taking 2 more levels in Jedi Knight you can forgo taking the Flurry Feat, and take Multiattack Prof. Lightsaber to gain the same effect without the -5 Reflex Penalty for Flurrying. Or you could add two more levels of a heroic class to gain a talent and a feat from it.

A Single Level in Melee Duelist grants you a Single Weapon Flourish I which will allow you to make a move action as a free action when you make a full attack.