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Jeivar
2009-06-14, 01:22 PM
(Yeah, I'm not the most D&D - savvy person out there)

I'm in the process of making my 6th level elven goth, dual-axe wielding rogue/swashbuckler princess of darkness with a silly name, and now I'm trying to jack up my AC. If I wear +2 studded leather (with gothic spikes, naturally :smallsmile: ), AND a Ring of Protection, or Bracers or Armor, do the bonuses stack?

Thanks.

Babale
2009-06-14, 01:23 PM
Bracers of Armour are Armor bonus to AC, so no, they don't stack.

Ring of Protection does.

Riffington
2009-06-14, 01:25 PM
However, the bracers of armor will help her if her dead sister's ghost ever tries to attack her.

dariathalon
2009-06-14, 01:25 PM
The ring would stack with the armor, but the bracers would not. It all comes down to the types of bonuses provided. In general the same bonus types don't stack.

Studded Leather (Armor Bonus)
+2 (Armor Enhancement Bonus)
Bracers of Armor (Armor Bonus)
Ring of Protection (Deflection Bonus)

kamikasei
2009-06-14, 01:26 PM
Bonuses of the same type don't stack, except for dodge bonuses. Armor and bracers of armor both grant armor bonuses, so they won't stack. A ring of protection grants a deflection bonus, so it will stack. Similarly, an amulet of natural armor enhances your natural armor, not your regular armor, so it stacks too.

Kosjsjach
2009-06-14, 01:28 PM
Basically, bonuses of the same type do not stack. If you have two items that provide an armor bonus, only the higher one applies.

Other bonuses to AC include natural armor, size, shield, deflection, dexterity...

The rule generally holds for all bonuses. If it's the same type, it doesn't stack. So to jack up your AC, you need to get it from a bunch of different places.

EDIT: Whoo, my first time being truly and thoroughly ninja'd!

Flickerdart
2009-06-14, 01:31 PM
Bonuses of the same type do not stack, so your armour and your bracers wouldn't work together. You can generally get Deflection (ring of protection), armour (armour, bracers, Mage Armour), enhancement (magical armour), shield (shields, Shield), dodge (Dodge, Psionic Dodge), sacred/profane (Law Devotion), luck (Luck of Heroes), and so on. Dodge bonuses and unnamed bonuses stack.

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 01:38 PM
Allrighty, I guess I'll go with Studded Leather +2, Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, and with Dex 20 and the Dodge Feat, and Swasbuckler's Dodge, that brings my maximum potential AC up to 24. Not bad, I think.

Thanks guys.

Riffington
2009-06-14, 01:50 PM
A thought.
You want to do this two-handed, and who can blame you? So, someone will tell you to consider levels of warblade. Fine.

Now here's the kicker. You want to be a goth, and you're trying to up your armor class. If you do go warblade, it will give you access to a lovely defensive stance with a name that is just perfect for your character: the Pearl of Black Doubt.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-14, 01:53 PM
(Yeah, I'm not the most D&D - savvy person out there)

I'm in the process of making my 6th level elven goth, dual-axe wielding rogue/swashbuckler princess of darkness with a silly name, and now I'm trying to jack up my AC. If I wear +2 studded leather (with gothic spikes, naturally :smallsmile: ), AND a Ring of Protection, or Bracers or Armor, do the bonuses stack?

Thanks.

Just keep in mind that boosting AC is very expensive.

Also, Goths were Barbarians.

Flickerdart
2009-06-14, 02:00 PM
Allrighty, I guess I'll go with Studded Leather +2, Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, and with Dex 20 and the Dodge Feat, and Swasbuckler's Dodge, that brings my maximum potential AC up to 24. Not bad, I think.

Thanks guys.
Dodge sucks and you don't want it. Luck of Heroes is oodles better.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-14, 02:17 PM
Don't some other feats that don't suck have Dodge as a prerequisite?

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 02:25 PM
Now here's the kicker. You want to be a goth, and you're trying to up your armor class. If you do go warblade, it will give you access to a lovely defensive stance with a name that is just perfect for your character: the Pearl of Black Doubt.


Dodge sucks and you don't want it. Luck of Heroes is oodles better.


Well, what are those? Complete Scoundrel, Complete Adventurer, and Complete Warrior are the only non-core books I have ready access to.

And isn't Dodge+Mobility just the thing for a speed-n-finesse type of fighter? Or am I overlooking something?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-14, 02:27 PM
And isn't Dodge+Mobility just the thing for a speed-n-finesse type of fighter? Or am I overlooking something?
The fact that they're poor feats?

Dodge: +1 AC to one designated opponent. For a feat slot. Yeah, no.

Mobility: +4 to AC against attacks of opportunity when moving past people. You have Tumble which allows you to avoid attacks of opportunity. This feat is useless.

Eldariel
2009-06-14, 02:30 PM
And isn't Dodge+Mobility just the thing for a speed-n-finesse type of fighter? Or am I overlooking something?

Dodge is just +1 AC vs. 1 opponent; not a major benefit as it only works against opponents that target your AC, and even against only one of those, and even then, your AC is likely to be so low that you'll be hit.

As for Mobility, see this skill "Tumble", that almost completely obsoletes Mobility - opponents don't even get the AoO instead of having to hit your higher AC. Now, Elusive Target [Complete Warrior], which requires both of the feats, is actually pretty good. But you generally don't want to pick up Dodge & Mobility, unless they're required for something.

Flickerdart
2009-06-14, 02:31 PM
Well, what are those? Complete Scoundrel, Complete Adventurer, and Complete Warrior are the only non-core books I have ready access to.

And isn't Dodge+Mobility just the thing for a speed-n-finesse type of fighter? Or am I overlooking something?
Luck of Heroes is Forgotten Realms and Tome of battle stuff is from Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.

Dodge provides a tiny numerical benefit, and Mobility provides a very situational benefit. Both are awful, and sadly prerequisites for Spring Attack which is decent.

Mobility fighting doesn't really work so well in 3.5 because of the heavy reliance on full-attacks. The Scout is good at moving and fighting because of his Skirmish ability, the Dervish is supposed to be good at that too, and otherwise, Pounce, Hustle or Psionic Lion's Charge are used to deliver yourself to the foe and still get those sweet, sweet iteratives. Tumbling is also viable.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-14, 02:33 PM
Well, what are those? Complete Scoundrel, Complete Adventurer, and Complete Warrior are the only non-core books I have ready access to.

And isn't Dodge+Mobility just the thing for a speed-n-finesse type of fighter? Or am I overlooking something?

They're pretty bad feats, but when you nab Elusive Target from Complete Warrior at level 6 or so, you're all set - it's easily worth three feats. Seriously, if you ever have any reason to pick Dodge or Mobility (like a PrC), you must take Elusive Target, because it's too good to pass up on (like many of the tactical feats).

Spiryt
2009-06-14, 02:45 PM
I always wondered why exactly bracers of armor don't stack with normal armor (aside from balance reasons)

From SRD


These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor

This "field" interferes with armor, or what?

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 02:54 PM
They're pretty bad feats, but when you nab Elusive Target from Complete Warrior at level 6 or so, you're all set - it's easily worth three feats. Seriously, if you ever have any reason to pick Dodge or Mobility (like a PrC), you must take Elusive Target, because it's too good to pass up on (like many of the tactical feats).

Um, I'm looking at the feat list in Complete Warrior, and I don't see Elusive Target there.
EDIT::: Ahem, I found it...


Luck of Heroes is Forgotten Realms and Tome of battle stuff is from Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.

Could you give me a description, complete with prerequisites?

Flickerdart
2009-06-14, 02:59 PM
Could you give me a description, complete with prerequisites?
Luck of Heroes. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Luck_of_Heroes,all)

Don't think I'm allowed to post Tome of Battle stuff. You don't have to be a Warblade to get it, though, just a 10th level character who takes the Martial Study feat for any strike and then the Martial Stance feat for the Pearl. The stance gives you +2 Dodge AC until end of your turn every time an enemy misses you (and they stack!).

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-14, 02:59 PM
Um, I'm looking at the feat list in Complete Warrior, and I don't see Elusive Target there.

Just like divine feats etc., it's separate from the main feats. General feats page 96, divine feats page 106, tactical feats page 108, weapon style feats page 112.

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 03:01 PM
Luck of Heroes. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Luck_of_Heroes,all)

Don't think I'm allowed to post Tome of Battle stuff. You don't have to be a Warblade to get it, though, just a 10th level character who takes the Martial Study feat for any strike and then the Martial Stance feat for the Pearl. The stance gives you +2 Dodge AC until end of your turn every time an enemy misses you (and they stack!).

Well, I'm starting at level 6, so that Warblade stuff is out for now, I suppose. But I liiiiike Luck of Heroes! :smallsmile: Thanks.

That just leaves me with one more feat-slot to fill . . .

Riffington
2009-06-14, 03:04 PM
Luck of heroes:
prerequisite: 1st level or cleric with luck domain.Character gains a +1 bonus on all saving throws as well as a +1 luck bonus to Armor Class.
However, then you need to deal with your drak princess being lucky... this might actually break your character concept. Maybe if your DM lets you rename it to the Devil's Own Luck.

Pearl of Black Doubt: every time someone misses you, it fills them (and others) with the dark dread that they can never hit you, adding +2 to your AC cumulatively. However, you really need to get the Book of the Nine Swords for this one. You can be 5th level if you go the warblade route.

Chronos
2009-06-14, 03:12 PM
Are you sure you want two axes, instead of a sword and an axe (http://gothiquefae.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/river-tam.jpg)?

And the usefulness of Pearl of Black Doubt will depend a lot on how many enemies you typically fight at once. If you're only fighting one opponent, then his first attack (the one you need the most AC against) will be completely unaffected by it, and if he hits with it (as is reasonably likely), then the second attack won't be affected, either. On the other hand, if you're fighting swarms of kobolds or the like, the first attack still won't be affected, but the attacks of the second, third, and so on kobolds to attack you likely will be.

lsfreak
2009-06-14, 03:21 PM
Don't think I'm allowed to post Tome of Battle stuff. You don't have to be a Warblade to get it, though, just a 10th level character who takes the Martial Study feat for any strike and then the Martial Stance feat for the Pearl. The stance gives you +2 Dodge AC until end of your turn every time an enemy misses you (and they stack!).

All the ToB maneuvers are on the Wizards site, including all the fluff and mechanics, just for future reference if you want to post something.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a

You would need a 2-level dip into swordsage/warblade, a 1-level dip plus a feat, or two feats in order to get it. I'd always at least consider a 2-level dip into swordsage for any type of agile character due to assassin's stance + shadow blade feat + shadow hand weapon. If you really want to up the AC at the cost of damage, though, go for Pearl of Black Doubt + diamond mind weapon.

Faleldir
2009-06-14, 03:30 PM
If you're going to have armor spikes anyway, use them as your off-hand weapon. You could use a greataxe for more damage, or a battleaxe and a mithral heavy shield for more AC.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-14, 03:45 PM
Keep in mind that Armor Enhancement bonuses and Armor bonuses are two different types of bonuses. Still, many DMs will explicitly say that the enhancement bonus bumps the defensive bonus given by the armor, rather than saying that the bonus is applied directly to you. Thus it is rare to find a DM that will allow the +2 armor enhancement bonus from the magical studded leather armor to stack with the +x armor bonus of the bracers of armor. I certainly would not.

tyckspoon
2009-06-14, 03:50 PM
Keep in mind that Armor Enhancement bonuses and Armor bonuses are two different types of bonuses. Still, many DMs will explicitly say that the enhancement bonus bumps the defensive bonus given by the armor, rather than saying that the bonus is applied directly to you. Thus it is rare to find a DM that will allow the +2 armor enhancement bonus from the magical studded leather armor to stack with the +x armor bonus of the bracers of armor. I certainly would not.

It's been confirmed that this was they way they intended Armor Enhancement bonuses to work, although I can't remember just where it was now (Magic Item Compendium, probably; there's lots of stuff about the thought processes behind magic items in there. If not, either a Sage/FAQ answer or the Rules Compendium.)

Foryn Gilnith
2009-06-14, 03:50 PM
I always wondered why exactly bracers of armor don't stack with normal armor (aside from balance reasons)

This "field" interferes with armor, or what?

Let's say you're wearing leather armor. Adding studs to your armor will increase your armor class.
Let's say you're wearing full plate, with leather padding. Adding studs to the leather padding will be supremely useless.

Same thing with the bracers of armor. The field operates exactly as armor (i.e. blocks, not deflects), will go in the same place as armor, and any blind spots in your armor it might possibly cover up will not number enough to give you an appreciable AC bonus.

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 03:50 PM
If you're going to have armor spikes anyway, use them as your off-hand weapon. You could use a greataxe for more damage, or a battleaxe and a mithral heavy shield for more AC.

I'm a Swashbuckler with Dex 20. Can't use Weapon Finesse with greataxes or battleaxes.

TheCountAlucard
2009-06-14, 03:57 PM
I'm a Swashbuckler with Dex 20. Can't use Weapon Finesse with greataxes or battleaxes.Technically, you can finesse with a battleaxe, if you get it sized for a Small creature. You'd just take a -2 penalty on the attack roll. :smalltongue:

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 03:59 PM
Technically, you can finesse with a battleaxe, if you get it sized for a Small creature. You'd just take a -2 penalty on the attack roll. :smalltongue:

I have chronic bad luck with 20-sided dice, so I'm rather leery of attack penalties. :smallsmile:

Faleldir
2009-06-14, 04:03 PM
I'm a Swashbuckler with Dex 20. Can't use Weapon Finesse with greataxes or battleaxes.

Well, does it have to be an axe? The elven courtblade is two-handed and finesse. 1d10 damage, 18-20 crit, it's amazing.
And don't take Exotic Weapon proficiency; take Improved Weapon Familiarity.

Spiryt
2009-06-14, 04:08 PM
Let's say you're wearing leather armor. Adding studs to your armor will increase your armor class.
Let's say you're wearing full plate, with leather padding. Adding studs to the leather padding will be supremely useless.

Adding studs to leather is generally useless, but well it's D&D :smalltongue:

And assuming that studs actually give something why shouldn't they under the plate? If they could stop something, they could still stop it under other armor, contributing to generall stopage of a threat (aside from the fact that leather padding is not very good idea.) :smallconfused:



Same thing with the bracers of armor. The field operates exactly as armor (i.e. blocks, not deflects), will go in the same place as armor, and any blind spots in your armor it might possibly cover up will not number enough to give you an appreciable AC bonus.

So you have double layer of protection.:smallconfused: Armor, and a field , so any strike must defeat both.

And I'm not sure what you mean by "blocks not deflects"

Still it's not very important, but it's always funnier to be able to give a player logical response why two things can't work together.

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 04:20 PM
Well, does it have to be an axe? The elven courtblade is two-handed and finesse. 1d10 damage, 18-20 crit, it's amazing.
And don't take Exotic Weapon proficiency; take Improved Weapon Familiarity.

I want to dual-hand.

. . .

But where's info on the elven court blade, and IWF?

Curmudgeon
2009-06-14, 04:27 PM
The only reason to take Dodge and Mobility is because they're prerequisites. By themselves they're very poor returns for the cost. Dodge and Mobility are required for Spring Attack, which could be of use. But even then the cost is way too high. I'd only recommend Spring Attack if
you also take a level of Shadowdancer for Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight; and
you buy Mobility as an armor enhancement instead of a feat.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-14, 04:31 PM
I want to dual-hand.

Don't worry, rogues do well with TWF if they can sneak attack.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-14, 04:36 PM
I want to dual-hand.

. . .

But where's info on the elven court blade, and IWF?Generally, TWF is weaker if you use both arms for it. It's much better to use Armor Spikes, there's too much else you can do with your other arm.

Faleldir
2009-06-14, 04:44 PM
Elven courtblade is in Races Of The Wild. I strongly recommend it. You are still dual-wielding, but you're using a better main weapon and your spikes aren't just for style. As I said, it's a finesse weapon and a high crit weapon, which fits your character concept perfectly.

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 05:02 PM
Elven courtblade is in Races Of The Wild. I strongly recommend it. You are still dual-wielding,

No, I looked into it, and apparently it's a two-handed weapon. Basically a fancier version of a Greatsword.

tyckspoon
2009-06-14, 05:11 PM
No, I looked into it, and apparently it's a two-handed weapon. Basically a fancier version of a Greatsword.

Armor spikes don't take up a hand. You can dual-wield them alongside a two-handed weapon. If you really really want to do the paired swords or sword+dagger thing, tho, then no it doesn't really fit your desires (although the same book has the Elven Thinblade, which is a fancier version of a rapier.)

Jeivar
2009-06-14, 05:25 PM
Armor spikes don't take up a hand. You can dual-wield them alongside a two-handed weapon. If you really really want to do the paired swords or sword+dagger thing, tho, then no it doesn't really fit your desires (although the same book has the Elven Thinblade, which is a fancier version of a rapier.)

. . . do the rules specifically allow me to make an armed strike my elbow-spike even though both my hands are already occupied?
And does it count as an actual armed strike, as in no attack of opportunity in retaliation?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-14, 05:35 PM
. . . do the rules specifically allow me to make an armed strike my elbow-spike even though both my hands are already occupied?
And does it count as an actual armed strike, as in no attack of opportunity in retaliation?

"Armor Spikes
You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a -4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.)

An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes’ effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right."

Faleldir
2009-06-14, 05:35 PM
Just how and when can you use armor spikes? If you’re
using two weapons already, can you use armor spikes to
make a second off-hand attack? What if you’re using a
weapon and a shield? Can you use the armor spikes for an
off-hand attack and still get a shield bonus to Armor Class
from the shield? What if you use a two-handed weapon?
Can you wield the weapon in two hands and still make an
off-hand attack with the spikes? What are your options for
using armor spikes in a grapple? Can you use them when
pinned? If you have another light weapon, can you use that
and your armor spikes when grappling?
When you fight with more than one weapon, you gain an
extra attack. (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and greater
Two-Weapon Fighting give you more attacks with the extra
weapon.) Armor spikes are a light weapon that can be used as
the extra weapon.
If you attack only with your armor spikes during your turn
(or use the armor spikes to make an attack of opportunity), you
use them just like a regular weapon. If you use the full attack
action, you can use armor spikes as either a primary light
weapon or as an off-hand light weapon, even if you’re using a
shield or using a two-handed weapon. In these latter two cases,
you’re assumed to be kicking or kneeing your foe with your
armor spikes.
Whenever you use armor spikes as an off-hand weapon,
you suffer all the penalties for attacking with two weapons (see
Table 8–10 in the PH). When using armor spikes along with a
two-handed weapon, it is usually best to use the two-handed
weapon as your primary attack and the armor spikes as the offhand
weapon. You can use the armor spikes as the primary
weapon and the two-handed weapon as the off-hand attack, but
when you do so, you don’t get the benefit of using a light
weapon in your off hand.
You cannot, however, use your armor spikes to make a
second off-hand attack when you’re already fighting with two
weapons. If you have a weapon in both hands and armor spikes,
you can attack with the weapons in your hands (and not with
the armor spikes) or with one of the weapons in your hands and
the armor spikes (see the description of spiked armor in
Chapter 7 of the PH).
When grappling, you can damage your foe with your spikes
by making a regular grapple check (opposed by your foe’s
check). If you succeed, you deal piercing damage to your foe
(see Table 7–5 in the PH) rather than the unarmed strike
damage you’d normally deal when damaging your foe with a
grapple check. Since you can use armor spikes as a light
weapon, you can simply use them to attack your foe. You
suffer a –4 penalty on your attack roll when attacking with a
light weapon in a grapple (see page 156 in the PH), but if your
foe is bigger or stronger than you, this might prove a better
tactic than trying to deal damage through a grapple check
because there is no opposed roll to make—you just have to hit
your opponent’s Armor Class. You can’t attack with two
weapons when grappling, even when one of those weapons is
armor spikes (see the section on grappling in Chapter 8 of the
PH).
You can’t attack and damage your foe if he has you pinned.
If you break the pin and avoid being pinned again, you can go
back to attacking your foe. If your attack bonus is high enough
to allow multiple attacks, you might break the pin and then use
your remaining attack to damage your foe. To accomplish this,
you must first use an attack to break the pin. You can break a
pin using the Escape Artist skill, but trying to do so is a
standard action for you; once you use the standard action to
attempt escape, you can’t make any more attacks during your
turn.
minimum 10 characters

Accersitus
2009-06-14, 06:39 PM
Luck of Heroes. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Luck_of_Heroes,all)

Don't think I'm allowed to post Tome of Battle stuff. You don't have to be a Warblade to get it, though, just a 10th level character who takes the Martial Study feat for any strike and then the Martial Stance feat for the Pearl. The stance gives you +2 Dodge AC until end of your turn every time an enemy misses you (and they stack!).

When did they buff Luck of Heroes like that? In my copy of Forgotten Realms Campaign setting it's only +1 to all saves. Did they release a new version for 3.5?, mine is 3.0.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-14, 10:49 PM
For you feat, you can get the amazing Daring Outlaw soon. If at all possible, get it. It is an amazing feat :smallsmile:

koldstare
2009-06-15, 12:47 AM
OT from the original post but if you really want to do something silly with two finesseable weapons take 2 levels of ranger and then 3 levels of Cavestalker (Drow of the Underdark) along with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (Complete Adventurer) you can attack people 10ft away with a pair of Spiked Chains at normal two weapon fighting penalties. As a bonus you have a one handed weapon in each hand you can power attack with.

RTGoodman
2009-06-15, 12:49 AM
When did they buff Luck of Heroes like that? In my copy of Forgotten Realms Campaign setting it's only +1 to all saves. Did they release a new version for 3.5?, mine is 3.0.

They didn't release a full new FRCS for 3.5, but I'd imagine, based on the link. that the "buffed" version is from Player's Guide to Faerun, a 3.5 book.

Jeivar
2009-06-16, 02:35 PM
Well, by now I've got my Swash 5/Rogue 1 character pretty much ready to go . . . except for that last feat slot. I've been looking through Complete Warrior, and am now trying to decide between Arterial Strike, Eyes In The Back Of Your Head, Hamstring, and Kiai Shout.

Any suggestions or advice?

Faleldir
2009-06-16, 03:18 PM
What feats do you have so far?

Jeivar
2009-06-16, 03:51 PM
What feats do you have so far?

Luck of Heroes, and Two-Weapon fighting. As well as the automatic Dodge for being a Swashbuckler.

Faleldir
2009-06-16, 06:06 PM
I don't think the Swashbuckler's dodge bonus counts as a feat, but I can imagine that would be a fair houserule considering how many feats and PrCs require Dodge. Anyway, to answer your question, I still recommend Improved Weapon Familiarity to use an elven courtblade; but if those four are the only choices, then Hamstring is the best.

Chronos
2009-06-16, 08:54 PM
Quoth Josh the Aspie:
Keep in mind that Armor Enhancement bonuses and Armor bonuses are two different types of bonuses. Still, many DMs will explicitly say that the enhancement bonus bumps the defensive bonus given by the armor, rather than saying that the bonus is applied directly to you.Right, the enhancement bonus on a suit of armor is actually a bonus to a bonus. A suit of Full Plate +5 gives an armor bonus of +13 to AC, not an armor bonus of +8 to AC and an enhancement bonus of +5 to AC. If the enhancement bonus were directly to AC, then a magical armor and magical shield wouldn't stack.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-06-17, 04:33 AM
They wouldn't overlap, necessarily. Armor +8, Armor Enhancement +2, Shield +2, Shield Enhancement +2.

But that's a moot point. Rules Compendium, the most recent source, states...


Enhancement Bonuses
An enhancement bonus makes an armor bonus, natural armor bonus, or a shield bonus better. The enhancement bonus stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies—armor, natural armor, or shield—so it’s not included in the AC formula above.


So, in short, the above poster is correct.