View Full Version : Lookouts (and other things)
Have you read the latest (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/6/10/) penny arcade?
The eyrewood reaches from top to toe
And through the woods we all must go
Let winter freeze and summer burn
what men must know a boy must learn
Man, that is awesome. Boy scouts in fantasy universe. Automata is interesting, but I'd love to see lookouts in full form.
T-O-E
2009-06-15, 10:44 AM
I don't read Penny Arcade but I really like the concept. Hoping it wins!
Jim Darkmagic is the weakest of the three. I understand that "Gabe" and "Tycho" are biased because the character is entertaining and one of them played in a D&D campaign, but Lookouts and Automata have more originality, more charm, and a greater potential for storytelling.
I think I prefer Automata to Lookouts, but both are great.
Jahkaivah
2009-06-15, 02:17 PM
They're accepting votes (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S6TzmbcGkuVGhQPm8Q8OYw_3d_3d) I take it whatever wins will be turned into an ongoing series.
I've voted for Automata, but I wouldn't mind if Lookouts won.
Automata is the best of the three so far, with Lookouts a close second. Though I suspect it'll break Gabe's heart if we don't vote for Jim Darkmagic.
Nevrmore
2009-06-15, 02:36 PM
Honestly, they're all pretty stupid in their own way. Lookouts is just more cliche fantasy tripe, Automata is just more "ROBO-RACISM" tripe, Jim Darkmagic is just...kind of dumb.
I wouldn't recommend any of them.
chiasaur11
2009-06-15, 02:38 PM
I think they probably ended with Jim as that was the one that was guaranteed decent. I mean, that way, if Lookouts and Automata failed, at least they'd end it okay.
They mentioned they didn't expect that much success for Lookouts, and if Automata is beating it in popularity...
Lufia
2009-06-15, 02:46 PM
I found Jim Darkmagic pretty funny. Sure, it's not exceptionally original or anything but definitely worth a laugh.
I've a soft spot for Automata. The writing is kinda bland in that one but I really like the art.
Johnny Blade
2009-06-15, 02:51 PM
I think Lookouts could be decent. Or just offbeat.
Automata looks somewhat uninspired. Seems like they think that throwing a cyborg/robot/whatever into a 1920s Film Noir environment would be enough and good without any further ideas.
That Jim Darkmagic page was just stupid, but the idea itself is hard to really ruin.
I'd be willing to give all of them a chance. If the winning one gets its own archive.
There's no way I'd wade through regular Penny Arcade strips for those.
I actually like Automata best, though that's just because I'm a sucker for that sort of setting. After that, Lookouts was awesome. Jim Darkmagic was my least favorite because I didn't see anywhere for it to go afterwards. For Lookouts, I wonder what will happen when they face the bassilisk. For Automata, I want to know who is killing these singers. For Jim, while the prospect of Jim Darkmagic embarassing himself some more is amusing, I don't see a story there that I see with the others.
Lookouts is just more cliche fantasy tripe,
Are you decrying it for its storyline or because it's fantasy?
T-O-E
2009-06-15, 05:15 PM
Yeah, "Robo-Racism" is kind of over-done.
ninja_penguin
2009-06-15, 05:23 PM
Although of the three, the robo-racism one was the one I'd most like to see, if only because I"m probably a 20-30s noir mystery junkie.
Warpfire
2009-06-15, 05:51 PM
Lookouts is the worst piece of webcomicry I have ever been exposed to, ever. I cannot explain my hatred of it, there is no rhyme or reason to it- my hatred simply is.
I like the art of Automata, but otherwise it's just kind of boring. I love noir, but I can't overcome how uninteresting it is.
As for Jim Darkmagic...just, what?
On a side note, did Penny Arcade used to be better, or am I just falling victim to nostalgia?
Aren't we being a little too quick in defining Automata solely on the Fantastic Racism (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FantasticRacism) aspect? It does seem to be a murder mystery.
And no, Warpfire, Penny Arcade is still great. Why you have such burning hatred for Lookouts is beyond me; I can see disliking it, but not frothing-at-the-mouth rage.
Shadowcaller
2009-06-15, 06:40 PM
Lookouts is the worst piece of webcomicry I have ever been exposed to, ever. I cannot explain my hatred of it, there is no rhyme or reason to it- my hatred simply is.
I like the art of Automata, but otherwise it's just kind of boring. I love noir, but I can't overcome how uninteresting it is.
As for Jim Darkmagic...just, what?
On a side note, did Penny Arcade used to be better, or am I just falling victim to nostalgia?
Hate without logic fails... I'm really suprised at the amount of hate these short strips have gathered. I like all of them.
DoubleBlackbird
2009-06-15, 06:40 PM
I voted for Lookouts, but it seems like Automata will win, which is fair enough; I'd read any one of the three.
A quick word in favour of Jim Darkmagic: you can't really expect much from a single comic, considering that JD appears (can't confirm this, obviously) to be a sort of one-man show, dependent more on the character of Darkmagic than on a particularly inspired setting (à la Lookouts or Automata). To decry it now is equivalent to a first-time visitor to this site peeking at the OotS cast page and concluding, 'Well, it's alright, but I just can't see anywhere for it to go.' :smalltongue:
I voted for Lookouts, but it seems like Automata will win, which is fair enough; I'd read any one of the three.
A quick word in favour of Jim Darkmagic: you can't really expect much from a single comic, considering that JD appears (can't confirm this, obviously) to be a sort of one-man show, dependent more on the character of Darkmagic than on a particularly inspired setting (à la Lookouts or Automata). To decry it now is equivalent to a first-time visitor to this site peeking at the OotS cast page and concluding, 'Well, it's alright, but I just can't see anywhere for it to go.' :smalltongue:
I think Jim Darkmagic only has this problem in comparison with the other two. With Lookouts and Automata they did a great job of providing a teaser, the beggining of a story. With Jim they did a whole story. They introduced a character with alot of potential, but I read the comic and I feel I have experienced Jim Darkmagic in a way I havn't experienced Automata and Lookouts. I wouldn't mind more Jim Darkmagic, but I don't really feel we are giving somthing up. If Automata dosn't get chosen I will think "Darnit, now we won't get to know who killed those singers", if Lookouts dosn't get chosen I will think "Grr, I want to see what happens when they face the bassilisk". But I won't think "Curses, No more Jim Darkmagic, now I don't know what happens when they get over that hill".
Warpfire
2009-06-15, 08:28 PM
It's a free country, I'll hate what I want to. :smalltongue:
Hey, I'm not saying it makes any sense. I have some logical reasons to dislike it, but really it's just an emotional response. Logic isn't everything, always...
hustlertwo
2009-06-15, 09:22 PM
I knew I had heard the Jim Darkmagic name before; I thought it was connected to the deliberately bad magic story they had going on a while back (the name of the character escapes me, but I remember something about Witchaloks, I think...?), but I guess it was from their frequent D&D diatribes. Either way, I voted for it, but am fine with any of them (although Lookouts will likely interest me the least).
Felius
2009-06-15, 09:34 PM
Aye. I found Jim to be nice, but the other two, to be great. Specially the lookouts. I REALLY want to see more of that universe.
I voted for lookouts, both because the art and the premise. The art is looked fairy tale-ish and fantastic (I mean both in 'fantastical world' meaning and in the 'great' meaning) and it'd be interesting to see a dangerous fantasy world from child's point of view. Boy scouts are really cool in real world, and it'd be even cooler in fantasy.
Though, why does the motto is rather grim? May we die in the forest?
@ warpfire
nah, I also want to know why you hate it. I'm not really bothered if someone hated something I like, I just want to know other people's opinion.
Like, I like the dark knight, but another people said it's a piece of crap, I'm really interested in knowing why does he think that it's a piece of crap.
Felius
2009-06-15, 09:40 PM
Though, why does the motto is rather grim? May we die in the forest?
Well considering that their world is one huge forest (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SingleBiomePlanet), where else would they die? It might be seen as something more symbolic... Still pretty grim though.
Midnight Lurker
2009-06-15, 10:13 PM
Jim Darkmagic might have been nice, but the implied constant accidental killings just don't sit well with me. And in particular, killing hot redhead chicks is wrong. :smallconfused:
I can take or leave noir, but now I kinda want to see how Automata turns out.
Lookouts... I think what's bugging people is the odd phrasing used by the characters. It's the same manner of speech as Twisp and Catsby, but it seems weirder when humans use it. Still, I'd rather see this one, by a small margin.
Jim Darkmagic might have been nice, but the implied constant accidental killings just don't sit well with me. And in particular, killing hot redhead chicks is wrong. :smallconfused:
Strange minds think alike. That wasn't funny, that was horrible.
She was cute. :smallfrown:
chiasaur11
2009-06-16, 01:07 AM
I knew I had heard the Jim Darkmagic name before; I thought it was connected to the deliberately bad magic story they had going on a while back (the name of the character escapes me, but I remember something about Witchaloks, I think...?), but I guess it was from their frequent D&D diatribes. Either way, I voted for it, but am fine with any of them (although Lookouts will likely interest me the least).
No, Jim's from Gabe and Tycho's DnD game.
He's Jim Darkmagic of the Newhampshire Darkmagics, and he's a wizard.
Nevrmore
2009-06-16, 05:53 AM
Are you decrying it for its storyline or because it's fantasy?
Both. Though I still haven't given up on fantasy as a genre, I have certainly never seen anything good from it (barring Discworld, which is a parody of fantasy anyway).
I have no idea what Warpfire's deal with it is, but mine is that it is just as I said: It's cliche fantasy crap. I mean, just look at the leader teaching the Lookouts. I'd bet you anything that he lost his eye when he valiantly tried to save a friend from getting killed by an orc or some crap. Beyond that, what we've been told about the story makes it seem rather haphazard. They give the world one defining feature and try to settle the entire plot around it. That'd be like if Star Wars was two hours of Luke demonstrating how to survive the harsh desert of Tatooine. It's boring and uninspired.
DoubleBlackbird
2009-06-16, 06:51 AM
I think Jim Darkmagic only has this problem in comparison with the other two. With Lookouts and Automata they did a great job of providing a teaser, the beggining of a story. With Jim they did a whole story. They introduced a character with alot of potential, but I read the comic and I feel I have experienced Jim Darkmagic in a way I havn't experienced Automata and Lookouts. I wouldn't mind more Jim Darkmagic, but I don't really feel we are giving somthing up. If Automata dosn't get chosen I will think "Darnit, now we won't get to know who killed those singers", if Lookouts dosn't get chosen I will think "Grr, I want to see what happens when they face the bassilisk". But I won't think "Curses, No more Jim Darkmagic, now I don't know what happens when they get over that hill".
Well, I'm sure Tycho would be able to put together a story a bit more gripping than 'Jimmy D goes into village, mucks up his magic show and runs away, repeat ad nauseam' but I see what you mean. And it's not like Automata hasn't got some interesting character ideas too (Lookouts, perhaps, not so much).
If any one of the three is cliche fantasy tripe, it's Jim Darkmagic: but but but, even cliches can be entertaining if you aren't a regular partaker of the genre. And I also think that both JD and Lookouts are a better showcase for Krahulik's art style than the noirishness of Automata.
Jim Darkmagic might have been nice, but the implied constant accidental killings just don't sit well with me. And in particular, killing hot redhead chicks is wrong. :smallconfused:
To be fair to Tycho, killing redheads is a tough habit to break (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/2/21/). :smallamused:
ninja_penguin
2009-06-16, 08:00 AM
On a semi-tangent to all of this: If the Penny-Arcade guys ever made a Catsby and Twisp children's book, I'd probably be all over it.
T-O-E
2009-06-16, 02:45 PM
Looks like Automata's going to win... Sadly.
Karellen
2009-06-16, 04:14 PM
For my part, I have to say Lookouts definitely charmed me. You guys should give a listen to the podcast. I find it hilarious, because their thought process is such an exact match for what went through my head when I read the comic. The strength of Lookouts is, as they put it, "when you say 'fantasy boy scouts', you know exactly what it's about"; then you just have to sort of roll it around in your head, and the idea slowly turns from "hilarious" to "awesome".
As a story, it has limited potential - but what I see in it, though, is a fantastic setting, or concept really, for an RPG campaign. And judging from how they talk about it, that's essentially how Tycho and Gabe see it, too. The comic is simply a means of introducing the concept, and for my part I have to say it succeeds pretty well.
Cliched? Probably, but RPGs on the whole rely much more on pre-existing cliches and familiar things than literature does. They have to, because actual roleplaying is a shared creative process, and in my experience, RPGs are the most fun when everyone is on the same page, so to speak, has internalized the setting, the atmosphere and the characters, and there's a sort of common stream of consciousness at work.
Lookouts sounds like a great thing for that. What I see here is the delicious mixture of D&D-style fantasy universe, but instead of dungeon crawling you have these deliciously old-fashioned Enid Blyton-esque adventures. It's funny, but more to the point, it sounds like fun. I'm definitely going to give this a try in my gaming group.
hustlertwo
2009-06-16, 05:26 PM
Looks like Automata's going to win... Sadly.
I'm not overly sad about it, but I would agree that there's no longer any point in talking about who we hope will win, as this is over. Automata we know will be their next big project, but I wouldn't be shocked if one or both of the others are explored in some form as well.
evileeyore
2009-06-16, 05:47 PM
I'm not overly sad about it, but I would agree that there's no longer any point in talking about who we hope will win, as this is over. Automata we know will be their next big project, but I wouldn't be shocked if one or both of the others are explored in some form as well.
Especially considering how much fun Gabe was having drawing stuff for Lookouts... it wouldn't surpirse me in the least to see them both done for con weeks.
Don't give up hope yet. We only need to find 3000 guys to vote for lookouts!
Voting is over. (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=S6TzmbcGkuVGhQPm8Q8OYw_3d_3d)
That said:
Also, no matter what you picked, you can't actually lose: we'll try to come back to all of these eventually. We aren't foolish enough to commit to a timeline, but there's a reason we put them in front of you. Eventually, we won't be able to resist.
Joran
2009-06-21, 08:13 PM
They give the world one defining feature and try to settle the entire plot around it. That'd be like if Star Wars was two hours of Luke demonstrating how to survive the harsh desert of Tatooine. It's boring and uninspired.
Well, that is essentially Dune; a lot of the first book is establishing how the people survive and how their culture reflects the particular challenges of living on a desert planet. One example is that they distill people for their water...
I preferred Lookouts; I still like fantasy and it seemed cute, although I was bothered by the "May We Die in the Forest" part. Automata seemed familiar for some reason, which is why I voted for Lookouts.
LurkerInPlayground
2009-06-21, 09:40 PM
I preferred Lookouts; I still like fantasy and it seemed cute, although I was bothered by the "May We Die in the Forest" part. Automata seemed familiar for some reason, which is why I voted for Lookouts.
That's sort of the point. Mike and Jerry said in the podcast that they wanted Lookouts to a have dark undertone and Jerry himself was using a Lovecraftian mode of description for Basilisks.
I want to see Automata though, since I want to see Mike and Jerry stretch themselves a bit. Automata was one of those things they mocked in themselves as a pretension to more serious and sober work.
I'd still like to see subtle humor in Automata but I really want to see what happens when they actually do what they view as a "serious story."
Rutskarn
2009-06-26, 05:04 PM
Both. Though I still haven't given up on fantasy as a genre, I have certainly never seen anything good from it (barring Discworld, which is a parody of fantasy anyway).
I have no idea what Warpfire's deal with it is, but mine is that it is just as I said: It's cliche fantasy crap. I mean, just look at the leader teaching the Lookouts. I'd bet you anything that he lost his eye when he valiantly tried to save a friend from getting killed by an orc or some crap. Beyond that, what we've been told about the story makes it seem rather haphazard. They give the world one defining feature and try to settle the entire plot around it. That'd be like if Star Wars was two hours of Luke demonstrating how to survive the harsh desert of Tatooine. It's boring and uninspired.
I think you've missed the point.
The concept they're building on is story and character based--the sort of dark-humor idea of a bunch of kids doing extremely dangerous things, not because of prophecy, not for money and glory, but for merit badges and pins.
I mean, what would it be like to be raised as the cliche ranger-scouts in fantasy, the ones who are the first line of defense against magic beasties and invading armies? That's not a summer job. That's something you have to grow up as, and that's what this is looking at.
Not sure I like this Guest-artist's style.
DoubleBlackbird
2009-07-01, 09:31 AM
Man, I really need to have a crack at reading Tiny Kitten Teeth at some point.
Rutskarn
2009-07-01, 12:08 PM
Not sure I like this Guest-artist's style.
This.
I really, really think I'm going to hate how these guys handle the story.
Eh, well, best to keep some perspective on it.
a.) It's free.
b.) I was never promised anything.
c.) Other people might enjoy it.
Them's the breaks.
T-O-E
2009-07-01, 12:11 PM
Yeah, same. Probably could have been handled better. Shame.
So, WHOO, AUTOMATA!
I really like the way this is looking. The artwork is great, you've got subtle background details. Worldbuilding that feels natural, and that classic PA, wit at the end.
Not a guest artist for that series? Good!
The Plot! It Thickens!
My theory is that an Anti-Automata person is hacking the Automatons, forcing them to kill Performers, in order to make them seem crazy and violent, and to encourage their destruction.
t_catt11
2009-08-04, 04:28 PM
Loving the twist here.
And for the record, the guest artist ruined Lookouts.
BTW, I wonder if Penny Arcade realizes that their site has been wrecked in IE 7 all week...
The artwork is really great. I like the story as well.
The guest artist for Lookouts wasn't bad ... but I would have preferred Gabe's work.
Jahkaivah
2009-08-04, 07:59 PM
From what I can tell the Claptraps font was actually used in the 50s, combining it with barcode is an awesome way of linking the two genres together.
One problem: Even if they can proove that Carl isn't responsible for his actions, it could be argued that anything that easily manipulated shouldn't be allowed to exist. :smallfrown:
Jibar
2009-08-05, 02:43 AM
So, does anyone else think the Claptraps are behind this?
I thought it was obvious, but apparently no one else picked up on it so I'm not so sure.
Also, there's no Christmas? :smallfrown:
Also, there's no Christmas? :smallfrown:
No, the reference is to a Christmas tree as a possible cause for "memetics" among automatons.
barteem
2009-08-06, 02:13 PM
Actually I think (like you asked) that they are using that literary device (whatever it's called) that Gibson was so fond of.
It's a technique where the writer references some historical event that has bearing on the subject at hand without ever fleshing it out to the reader. This lends to the illusion of depth of reality in fiction that helps the reader immerse.
So, if I'm right, what Tycho is trying to do here is speak of events (The christmas tree lights) that caused bad things to happen ( automaton behavior) in the past to create that sense of depth.
I may be wrong though.
So, does anyone else think the Claptraps are behind this?
I thought it was obvious, but apparently no one else picked up on it so I'm not so sure.
Also, there's no Christmas? :smallfrown:
As In getting Automatons to attack other performers, only to fall victim to it themselves?
Jibar
2009-08-06, 02:37 PM
Yeah, something like that.
I just thought that the Claptraps playing as Carl goes nuts was too much of a coincidence.
Midnight Lurker
2009-08-06, 02:52 PM
It's no coincidence, it's the music. Clickwise instructions acting as a memetic virus. Not necessarily something the Claptraps composed, though.
Wait, go back to Monday's comic. The Announcer says
"The Claptraps, with that hot new joint that's burning up the town, "Goodbye, Goodnight".
The implication is that "goodbye, Goodnight" is a popular song that the Claptraps did not compose. What do you want to bet the other victims were also playing "Goodbye, Goodnight".
T-O-E
2009-08-10, 04:55 PM
So, it's finished.
Not sure what I think of it.
John Campbell
2009-08-10, 05:54 PM
I think it was a pretty good start. Pity we'll likely never see the subsequent actual story done justice to.
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