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View Full Version : I reject yer reality and substitute my own![FRUIT]



Delcan
2006-07-20, 09:51 PM
We were somewhere around Tradegate at the edge of the desert when the glamers began to take hold. I remember saying something like "I feel a bit lightheaded; maybe you should take the reins..." And suddenly there was a terrible roar around us and the sky was full of what looked like giant stirges, all swooping and stabbing and diving around the cart, which was going about a hundred miles an hour to the portal to Sigil. And a voice was screaming: "Holy Heironious! What are these gods-cursed animals?!"
Then it was quiet again. My bodyguard had taken his tunic off and was pouring ale on his chest to facilitate the tanning process. "What the frell are you yelling about?" he muttered, staring up at the sky with his eyes closed and covered with wraparound gnomish sungoggles. "Never mind," I said. "It's your turn to take the reins." I stopped the mules and aimed the cart towards the side of the road. No point mentioning those stirges, I thought. Poor sod will see them soon enough.
...We had two bags of halfling pipe-stuffing, seventy-five charges of color spray in wands, five scrolls of major image, a salt-shaker half-full of pixie dust and a whole galaxy of multicolored charms, glamers, cantrips, dweomers... and also a quart of mead, a quart of ale, a potion case of lesser confusion, a pint of raw id moss, and two dozen kender sugar cookies.
...The only thing that worried me was the cookies. There is nothing in the Great Wheel more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of a sugar binge...
-Gonzo Redeye, famed goblin journalist, from Fear and Loathing in the City of Doors

Wizards and sorcerors draw from different sources of inner and outer power to fuel their magic. Wizards tend to believe in an underlying set of universal laws that inundate the multiverse, which define reality and can be predicted with but the right knowledge. Sorcerors confide in a chaos-with-purpose, a flowing and unpredictable sea of magic, like the run of a river that changes course where it may and takes the willing along for a ride.
Some mages go crazy. Not the terrifying crazy that eats at the will and drives one to fiendish acts, but the strangely amusing kind of crazy that makes one lose their grip on everyday life. Mages who have slipped off the status quo have been seen talking to signposts, writing entire books in one letter, or casually slinging magic missile spells at shadows, asserting with calm grace that they are "attacking the darkness." They're prone to using illusion spells to trick their own eyes, and dosing themselves on powerful hallucinogens to while away their free time. They're harmless nutters, usually.
Of course, when signposts start talking back, and the tomes entitled "AAAA AA AAA AAAAAA" start making sense, it could be there's a method to a mage's madness. Or a madness to a mage's method. Noone's quite sure how it happens... but every once in a blue moon, a crazy mage gets so eccentric that the world they interact with starts going bonkers too.
They're the Weirders. And they're Weird.

WEIRDER

To qualify for the Weirder prestige class, a character must meet the following prerequisites.
Alignment: Any chaotic.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 4 ranks.
Spells: Must be able to cast at least two 3rd-level arcane spells from the illusion school.
Special: Must have accomplished at least one of the following:
-Made friendly contact with a chaotic neutral outsider.
-Concentrated on a self-induced illusion for at least 3 consecutive days.
-Overdosed on a hallucinogenic substance.
-Been subject to insanity, as per the spell.

BAB: As wizard.
Hit Die: d4.
Saves: All bad.
Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier per level.

Class Skills: Craft (alchemy) (Int), Profession ("herbalist") (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).

1st: Addled mind, +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
2nd: Psychadelic aura, +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
3rd: Indecipherable, +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
4th: One with everybody, the furniture is talking, +1 level of arcane spellcasting class
5th: Un/Real, +1 level of arcane spellcasting class

Proficiencies: Weirders gain proficiency with no weapons or armor.

The following are class features of the weirder.

Addled Mind (Ex): Weirders have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality, and so do their enemies. Weirders suffer a -4 penalty to Will saves against magical effects of the illusion school. However, they add their weirder level to the Will save DCs of their own illusion spells and magical effects.

Psychadelic Aura (Su): At 2nd level, anyone within a weirder's immediate surroundings sees things begin to distort and change in bizarre ways - changing colors, growing stretched or squashed or bent in odd places, and in general not making sense to the rational mind at all. The weirder exudes a psychadelic aura, with a maximum radius of 5 feet per weirder level; anyone within this range suffers a 20% miss chance with all attacks and a -2 circumstance penalty to attacks, saves, and skill checks. The weirder can expand or contract this aura, extending its radius up to 5 feet per level of weirder, or reducing it to as little as a 5-foot radius. They cannot supress their aura, and if dispelled it remanifests itself as a free action on the weirder's next turn.
The weirder is immune to the effects of psychadelic auras, his own or another weirder's. Presumably, he's used to seeing the world that way anyway.

Indecipherable (Ex): Weirders are hard to get a hold of with enchantments and compulsions, as their thought processes are so cross-wired that everybody else's assertions seem crazy. At 3rd level, they gain a +4 bonus to Will saves versus mind-affecting and compulsion effects, and are immune to confusion, insanity, and similar spells and effects.

One with Everybody (Ex): At 4th level, a weirder's sense of self becomes so distorted that it encompasses others as well. They can cast spells with a range of "self" upon other creatures by touch.

The Furniture Is Talking (Su): At 4th level, the world around the weirder starts to get a mind of its own. Objects in the weirder's psychadelic aura begin moving of their own accord, as an animate objects spell of caster level equal to the character's weirder levels. (For example, a 4th level weirder's psychadelic aura will animate up to four Small objects, two Medium objects, or one Medium object and two Small objects.) They cannot control which items animate, or what these items do, and the items de-animate once they leave the psychadelic aura. Animated objects have an Intelligence and Charisma score of 10 + weirder level; in general, they will act in the interest of self-preservation and engage in social interaction where inappropriate.

Un/Real (Ex): At 5th level, a weirder's power and mind have become so scrambled by madness that they often cannot distinguish between what is real and what is not; eventually, reality begins to buckle with their perception, treating all magical effects as both illusive AND real at the same time. Weirders may react to any spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural effect not originating from themselves as if it were either an illusion or real. If the weirder treats a normally real effect as real, or an illusory effect as illusory, then there is no change in treatment of the magic. However, things get fuzzy when they mix up others' magics.
If a weirder reacts to an illusion as if real, then for all effects and purposes it IS real for the weirder. An illusory fireball requires a Reflex save to avoid taking full damage, for example, and the illusion of a wall is just as solid as true stone. This can be used to the weirder's advantage - the illusion of a rope will hold a weirder, while other characters could never hope to use it, and a silent image of a bridge spanning a chasm can be trod upon by the weirder as if it were truly there.
If a weirder reacts to a real magical effect as if illusory, then they may make a Will save to disbelieve the very reality of the magic (they still take a -4 penalty due to their Addled Mind). If the spell usually allows a Reflex or Fortitude save, then a successful Will save is treated as if it were the save usually made for such a spell. (For example, a weirder who disbelieves a fireball and makes their Will save still takes half damage.) The weirder can also make a Will save to disbelieve structures such as a wall of force, a gust of wind, or a symbol; success allows the weirder to ignore them as if they didn't exist at all.
No matter their addled senses, a weirder always knows which of their spells are real and which are not, and thus can never disbelieve their own non-illusory spells, or treat their own illusions as real.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-07-20, 09:54 PM
What does FRUIT stand for? ::)

Delcan
2006-07-20, 10:00 PM
I got tired of PEACHes.

Fax Celestis
2006-07-20, 10:05 PM
What does FRUIT stand for? ::)
Fix
Read
Upend
It
Thanks

And last week, we got a Powermetalist class. This week, we get Pink Floyd. Awesome.

I know it sounds crazy (ha, ha), but I'd almost say that a successful save in Un/Real should negate the effect entirely, when treating a real spell as an illusion.

Alchemistmerlin
2006-07-20, 10:08 PM
I got tired of PEACHes.


I get tired of people making tags for their posts and then being to lazy to come up with something for them to stand for. You get an F.

Fax_Celestis, you get a C+ good effort but I think you can do better.

Fax Celestis
2006-07-20, 10:09 PM
I get tired of people making tags for their posts and then being to lazy to come up with something for them to stand for. You get an F.

Fax_Celestis, you get a C+ good effort but I think you can do better.
First Read Under Incandescent Towels?

Shhalahr Windrider
2006-07-20, 10:14 PM
They cannot supress their aura, and if dispelled it remanifests itself as a free action on the weirder's next turn.
Supernatural abilities cannot be dispelled. However, they do become supressed within areas of antimagic.


In general, animated objects will act in the interest of self-preservation and engage in social interaction where inappropriate.
Maybe toss in some mental stat bonuses beyond the normal effect of animate objects. Mindless constructs tend to do little in the way of social interaction (whether or not it's inappropriate).

Un/Real (Ex): At 5th level, a weirder's power and mind have become so scrambled by madness that they often cannot distinguish between what is real and what is not; eventually, reality begins to buckle with their perception, treating all magical effects as both illusive AND real at the same time.[/quote]
This seems a bit... much.


I got tired of PEACHes.
Well, a peach is a type of fruit, so I'm gonna give you one anyway. Along with some pears, apples, oranges, bannanas, and a big ol' mango. ;D

Nice Fear and Loathing reference.

Fualkner Asiniti
2006-07-20, 10:16 PM
THis is really quite awesome, it doesn't seem unbalened to me at all.

knightsaline
2006-07-20, 10:35 PM
WEIRDER


Special: Must have accomplished at least one of the following:
-Made friendly contact with a chaotic neutral outsider.
-Concentrated on a self-induced illusion for at least 3 consecutive days.
-Overdosed on a hallucinogenic substance.
-Been subject to insanity, as per the spell.
.


how about adding "been the subject of a wish spell where they wished to know everything" or (if using the knowledge (forbidden lore) skills) must have maxed olut ranks in knowledge (forbidden lore). the first one seems to be a bit stupid, as no one is feasibly going to wish to know everything, but call it that their mind was blasted from seeing the enormity of the multiverse and realizing that their existance is too small to matter. the second thing could have been that they read too much forbidden knowledge, they were driven insane

NullAshton
2006-07-21, 09:47 AM
This is kind of cool. Hallucinary terrain would be kind of funny if he thought of it as real, and everyone else made their will saves...

pincushionman
2006-07-21, 01:03 PM
For s*its and giggles, the believe/disbelieve choice of the Un/Real should be made by a d4 roll:

1 - wizard believes wrongly, effect behaves as normal
2 - wizard believes wrongly, effect behavior switched
3 - wizard believes correctly, effect behaves as normal
4 - wizard believes correctly, effect behavior switches

MMad
2006-07-21, 01:19 PM
This is an awesome concept, although I'm not experienced enough to guess if it's balanced. :) I get the feeling it'd be very difficult to play a Weirder well, but it would probably be awesome if handled correctly.

Fishies
2006-07-21, 01:32 PM
Weird.

Were-Sandwich
2006-07-21, 01:41 PM
The usefulness of teating an illusory object as real is only very useful if there is another spellcaster in the party, as they cannot treat their own illsuions as real. So its not that unbalanced.

TSGames
2006-07-21, 01:42 PM
It doesn't seem too balanced, but I love the feel of of it. Maybe it should be a little bit patched up and then sent into Dragon Magazine or something; it's flavor is just that awesome.

illathid
2006-07-21, 02:43 PM
I really like the "fear and loathing in las vegas" reference. I think that does more to create the flavor of the class than anything else.

if you want to know how to RP one these, just go watch the movie. all will be explained.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-07-21, 02:57 PM
I'm just digging One with Everybody. Finally a class that than tag others with true strike.

beholder
2006-07-21, 03:07 PM
awesome class
all those people drooling over true strike, this is RP challenge. i doubt that the weirder actually knows anyone exists, let alone realises the potential to cast that...umm..thinggummy about swords and hitting and stuff...what? on other umm...something about protons and atoms, people wizzing...umm.
/weirder speak
(well thats how i see it)

what's their hit die?
d4?

or 2dyellowthingummyspaceshipbadger?

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-07-21, 03:10 PM
An rp challange? This makes the process all the more simple. Do what ou will, ignore the world as the others see it, and steal the show during downtime as comic relief.

bingo_bob
2006-07-21, 03:10 PM
Un/Real has so many broken possibilities.

Hmm...

Uh...

Actually, it's a bit tricky. The best I can think of is walking on illusory terrain.

beholder
2006-07-21, 03:13 PM
An rp challange? This makes the process all the more simple. Do what ou will, ignore the world as the others see it, and steal the show during downtime as comic relief.

you are evil...
I like you

Delcan
2006-07-21, 03:26 PM
Concerning brokenness: This was something I was indeed trying to be wary of; however, I wasn't as worried about it as I was while making, say, the Bene Gesserit, because anyone who WANTS to take this class is NOT going to do it for the abilities - they're going to do it because they want to play an absolute nutter. This is a dedicated RPing class, and any strange exploits its gets are going to play second fiddle to the fact that one of the party members is a raving loon with an on-again-off-again relationship with reality.

Un/Real, in particular, I wanted to be fairly powerful - after all, the last level of the prestige class needs to be tempting enough to go all the way. However, it's not TOO broken - in essence, it allows a (slightly ganked - check Addled Mind and his all-bad saves) Will save in place of any other save a spell requires, and it lets you use illusions like they're the real thing; if there IS a way to exploit the latter detail that breaks the game, there's probably half a dozen reasons for the DM to veto it.

But if you've got any ideas on how any of these abilities might be broken or exploitable in some way, just make a suggestion. *grin* I'd like to see this class usable in a game without any other argument save for "You want to play WHAT?".

beholder
2006-07-21, 03:38 PM
exactly, this class is awesome.

PcFighter: excellent! Jim's just leveled up in wierder, he can now cast true strike on us!
Pcs:yes!
PcFighter:OK jim, cast true strike on me!
jim: !em no ekirts eurt tsac mij KO

PcFighter:what?
jim: i said my good man, that that is just one way, JUST ONE WAY of removing the golden bannanaromper from lime custard.
PcFighter: hes bloody daft
PcRogue: yeah look, he's talking to a rock

rock: yes i can see the moral implications of your situation

NullAshton
2006-07-21, 04:26 PM
Un/real has some interesting implications when combined with veil. For a level 6 spell, the weirder could basically be anything he wants. Now, doesn't help his attacks any... but funny to see him flying around as a dragon or bird, go through walls as a ghost.

You could also walk right over illusionary pits, which is pretty good. Or, with misdirection, you would go over to the misdirected object and actually pick up the real object. O.o

A cool thing you could do is have someone make you a permanent image on you, of a pet. Hi, fluffy!

Another cool thing you can do with it... someone with greater invisibility attacks you. And goes right through you. And repeats multiple times, wondering what the heck is wrong with that person. Alternatively, someone casts invisibility on a wall. "Huh, where'd that wall go? Oh well. *walks straight through it*".

Wonder how magic aura would mix with that. Yet another use? Use cursed items. "Huh? What do you mean these are cursed bracers of armor? They worked fine for me.

Lots of fun stuff to do with that... Yup.

Yossarian
2006-07-21, 05:14 PM
It's definitely a very cool class, but alas, I think the Weirder made his Will save to disbelieve game balance. If you're playing in a silly-themed campaign to begin with it would be awesome, but in a serious game having a crazy guy around is disruption enough without the very significant power the crazy guy now wields.

NullAshton
2006-07-21, 05:19 PM
I don't think it's signifigant. All bad saves, horrible BAB, horrible hitdice, and horrible saves all aroud. Plus, I'm not sure, but I don't think they get skills.

Yossarian
2006-07-21, 05:27 PM
At level 7 (wizard 5/weirder 2), anything attacking them in melee has -2 to attack and a 20% miss chance, as a continuous magical effect. Then after they whiff, the weirder backs up and casts an illusion spell against which they suffer -2 to their save roll vs. a save DC at +2. That's not significant? This guy is powerful and uncontrollable--it's like Frenzied Berserker for illusionists.

NullAshton
2006-07-21, 05:31 PM
For one, it affects your allies as well. Second, it's illusion spells ONLY.

Altair_the_Vexed
2006-07-21, 05:45 PM
*assigns skill points & steals*

PMDM
2006-07-21, 06:06 PM
Over 25 posts, and I am the only one who thought it was necessary to point out the Dead Ale Wives reference. I'm attacking the darkness! Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee.

martyboy74
2006-07-21, 08:06 PM
This could probably work pretty well with psionic characters too; their powers are based in their minds. Think of the possiblilties of a screwed up concentration check. ;D

NullAshton
2006-07-21, 10:55 PM
OH NOES! THE PEANUT BUTTER IS ALIVE!

I_Got_This_Name
2006-07-22, 03:46 AM
Skills: 2 + Int mod, everything is cross-class?

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-07-22, 04:09 AM
you are evil...
I like you

This is like the 8th time I've been called evil, I must be doing something right.

In any case, I'm all for retarding the class skills with such a concept. One doesn't need much beyond Concentration and Spellcraft with this class anyway.

martyboy74
2006-07-22, 07:14 AM
Yeah, they'll probably already have the from wizard or whatever their base class was.

Maybe your avatar has something to do with being called evil?

Delcan
2006-07-22, 10:39 AM
Somehow I don't see Concentration being a class skill for these guys. :)

However, Spellcraft may as well go in there. And I'd like to suggest also Craft (alchemy) and Profession ("herbalist"). Why?

Er... no reason. ;)

(Also, yep, 2 + Int mod for skills. Boy, I forgot a lot of the basic stuff this time.)

martyboy74
2006-07-22, 10:45 AM
They should have craft (hallucinogens) as a class skill.

Do you know if anyone has made a drugged master PrC?

bingo_bob
2006-07-22, 11:28 AM
They should have craft (hallucinogens) as a class skill.

Do you know if anyone has made a drugged master PrC?

I don't believe anyone has. I think the reason being that having your character addicted to anything pretty much sucks.

MMad
2006-07-22, 01:15 PM
PcFighter: hes bloody daft
PcRogue: yeah look, he's talking to a rock

rock: yes i can see the moral implications of your situation

Lol! That's awesome! :D




I don't believe anyone has. I think the reason being that having your character addicted to anything pretty much sucks.

Well.. not necessarily. Melange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melange), anyone? :)

Overlord
2006-07-22, 01:21 PM
First off, good Adam Savage quote.

Secondly, I agree that Un/Real is too good; it allows you to use you will save for every negative effect they encounter, ignore just about any magic they can make their will save to disbelieve, and treat illusion magic as real.

That's far too good, especially for a level 5 prestige class's capstone ability that is acheivable at level 10.

Hadrian_Emrys
2006-07-22, 01:22 PM
Psionic: Naw... I ain't tha only one 'round these parts what has a unfriendly-like avatar. ;D

Bob: The spice is life! Even melange sucks to be hooked on. Sure it extends your life while you can get it but if you don't get your fix, instead of just getting ill, you DIE.

NullAshton
2006-07-22, 01:28 PM
Overlord, that is balanced by POOR SAVES. You get a -4 penalty to illusion effects including saves to disbelieve reality, and the PRC has all bad saves. Not to mention that wisdom isn't often an attribute that wizards buff to the stratosphere.

beholder
2006-07-22, 02:47 PM
Psionic: Naw... I ain't tha only one 'round these parts what has a unfriendly-like avatar. ;D

her evilness stems from the word shcaahhenfur...shcaneeffrrf....aww hell, her word under the avatar



Bob: The spice is life! Even melange sucks to be hooked on. Sure it extends your life while you can get it but if you don't get your fix, instead of just getting ill, you DIE.

yeah but you get coolio blue eyes.whats better than coolio blue eyes?

beholder
2006-07-22, 02:51 PM
Lol! That's awesome! :D

thanks!
if you enjoyed reading it half as much as i enjoyed writing it, then i enjoyed writing it twice as much as you enjoyed reading it



Well.. not necessarily. Melange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melange), anyone? :)

yeah, alright (holds out hand)

Bitter_Elf
2006-07-22, 04:19 PM
Along with the hallucinogenic-substance theme, and the Id Moss reference in your opening paragraph, I'm tempted to suggest adding the poison-handling ability at level 1. Don't know if it entirely fits, but... maybe they only learn to use poisons that do Int/Wis damage.

Delcan
2006-07-22, 05:42 PM
On melange: That's it, I'm posting the Spice of Life next.

On Poison Use: You're assuming that such a creature would:

1. Want to share the poison with others, and
2. NOT want to accidentally dose themselves.

;D

martyboy74
2006-07-22, 05:49 PM
Just asking, but would only magically created hallucinations count for Un/Real? If not, those drugs may become a lot more useful...

Delcan
2006-07-22, 08:59 PM
Nope, magical only. Or else he'd be in a lot of bad shape if he stumbled into a bad trip.

Most of the debate seems to circle around Un/Real, for obvious reasons. I wanted to try to give them something truly bizarre, that would be in line for 10th-level scale. The ability to use illusions like the real thing is a minor quirk/benefit, the real bonus is being able to roll Will saves against every bit of magic they come across. The drawback being, of course, that it's a pretty crappy save, what with the poor Will saves of the class AND the -4 to it. Any normal, self-respecting wizard would simply have a cloak of resistance to do their wimpy save boosting FOR them. Weirders just do it the weird way.

Psychadelic Aura, though, raised a point that does need consideration. At 7th level, a wizard 5/weirder 2 effectively gets an instant armor bonus and bonus to cast spells against creatures with few drawbacks; his party members will know to stay away from him on general principle anyway. I want to keep the flavor of this ability - that everyone AROUND the weirder starts hallucinating stuff themselves - but it obviously does need toning down. Any ideas?

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2006-07-22, 10:29 PM
Wizards.

On LSD.

With an aura that makes people act like they're on LSD.

Geinnious.

CabbageTheif
2006-07-23, 02:34 AM
Formerly Regarded In Unpleasent Themes

martyboy74
2006-07-23, 07:45 AM
Couldn't the wierder animate a rope with The Furniture is Talking and ride it up a chasm, down a pit, etc.?

I_Got_This_Name
2006-07-23, 12:07 PM
They have no control over what animates.

I might suggest revising it to limited control; if they talk to an inanimate object, it animates (if outside the size limit, part of it animates), but it might de-animate when they talk to something else. Any spare hit dice are up to the DM.

They still don't control the animated object.

Also, "Self-Preservation" needs to be better defined. Does the object just want to defend its existance as an object, or maintain its animation?

Psych Aura:
Maybe remove the penalty to saves, and just put it on attacks? An effective +2 bonus to AC isn't that overpowered as an ability, especially since it doesn't apply at range; the 20% miss chance might be a bit powerful, though, especially in combination. I'd reccomend moving everything except the 20% miss chance from it to 5th level, and possibly ditching the save penalty altogether. Also, make the aura visible from a distance (but not affect those shooting in), to give an advance warning.

Nahal
2006-07-23, 12:25 PM
Now imagine a Killer Gnome build with this subbed in.

Grug
2007-10-28, 05:53 PM
There's a contradiction in the Un/real description. You say that a Weirder could climb a rope or cross a bridge made of his illusions, but the last sentence says a Weirder can't treat his own illusions as real.

Magnor Criol
2007-10-28, 08:59 PM
There's a contradiction in the Un/real description. You say that a Weirder could climb a rope or cross a bridge made of his illusions, but the last sentence says a Weirder can't treat his own illusions as real.
He only talks about the weirder being able to use the rope or the bridge, not that they're his illusions:

This can be used to the weirder's advantage - the illusion of a rope will hold a weirder, while other characters could never hope to use it, and a silent image of a bridge spanning a chasm can be trod upon by the weirder as if it were truly there.
No contradiction.




As everyone else has said, the flavor of this class is awesome! Very well written.

As for the Psych Aura, perhaps you could allow a save to negate it. A Will save would be appropriate, because it's a mind-affecting ability; or maybe a Fort save, since it's sort of something you could shrug off with a good constitution, and crunchwise that would be a little better since most melee combatants have high Fort save progressions.
And so that it could still affect the Weirder's companions, you could even add in some sort of increased DC for those that spend a protracted time around the Weirder. (Secondhand sm...magic, and all. You know.)

Darkantra
2007-10-28, 09:56 PM
Since the Weirder is in a permanent state of being drugged, what kind of drugs do they take? They snort Grounded Reality.

Grounded Reality:

A Weirder can take drugs to even further bend the world into a bizzare horror of his subconcious, but where's the fun in that? The hard-core Weirders snort up some Grounded Reality and get normal.

A dose lasts for two hours and lets the Weirder experience pure, unfiltered, sanity. All of the Weirders class abilities except for spellcasting are disabled during this time and they act as a perfectly normal person during this period, delighting in conversing with their friends and fellows about normal topics, instead of the usual batsh*t insane fare.

If anyone snorts Grounded Reality who is not a Weirder, affected by an Insanity spell, or already afflicted with regular insanity, takes 2d6 points of non-lethal damage and must make a DC 20 Will save or have their Cha reduced to 0, effectively becomming an emmotionless golem incapable of communicating in anything but a series of taps. A restoration, greater restoration, wish or miracle spell can return them to normal, no ammount of therapy can.

Craft (herbalism) DC 20 per dose, market price (1000 gp).


One thing, what kinds of reagents should it be made of?

Deesix
2007-10-29, 12:47 AM
One solution to the power of Un/Reality would be make it so that to make an illusion real, they have to make a Will Save against it anyhow. Success means it's real to them. Maybe even allow it for their own illusions, giving this ability some use.

DracoDei
2007-10-29, 12:52 AM
I like this the way it is. All potential abuses of it pale before the fact that any DM who doesn't expect and enforce randomness and any player who doesn't provide that WITHOUT being ask are falling FAR FAR short of their respective roles. That is ALL the balancing factor it should need and MORE.

Deesix
2007-10-29, 01:10 AM
It really is a good class, and I do like it as is. I don't see it being too powerful. However, some people do so I made a suggestion I thought would be in line with what they thought.

Anyways, awesome work. I really want to make a villain with this class, the thrall of a gnome illusionist/enchanter. He won't be evil on his own, just won't be able to resist the gnome's suggestions/charms/illusions.

Skelengar
2007-10-29, 09:49 AM
This is great. My only question is about treating real stuff illusions.

My understanding is that it replaces a fortitude or reflex save with a will save. But because of addled mind, will is actually their worst save. I guess it also alows them to ignore magical structures, but I think it needs to be clarafied.

Magnor Criol
2007-10-29, 11:12 AM
No, you got it exactly right, that's precisely what it does. It's part of the balancing for the abilities that Un/Real grants you. It's not an automatic save substitution, though - they can decide if they want to disbelieve something real as illusory, thus giving them a Will save. If they still want to do something with Fort or Ref, they simply choose not to disbelieve.

Alex12
2007-10-29, 11:26 AM
Flavor-wise, they should also be harder to influence non-magically (Intimidate, Diplomacy, etc) because whatever is doing it isn't entirely real to them. But they should take a penalty on their own checks to do it to someone else, for the same reason.

I'm just imagining the chaos this sort of person would cause just by walking around.:smalleek:

DanielLC
2007-10-29, 07:48 PM
What happens if they have phantasmal image cast on them and they treat it as real? Does it stay real after they die?

The un/real reminds me of shadows and shades, that are both real and illusion. I wonder how it treats them? Can real and illusiary stuff be treated like that?

Do illusiary objects that are treated as real persist?

Neftren
2007-10-29, 08:22 PM
There's a contradiction in the Un/real description. You say that a Weirder could climb a rope or cross a bridge made of his illusions, but the last sentence says a Weirder can't treat his own illusions as real.

Graaaave Digger! :smallyuk:

Well, Illusory Objects do not count as solid. They appear real to whoever is affected but if ya know what they are made of, then the result is wasted.

Alex12
2007-10-30, 08:59 AM
May I suggest a few minor modifications to make this work for psionic characters too?
Knowledge(arcana) becomes Knowledge(psionics) for psionic classes, and they must know at least 2 third-level mind-affecting spells or have the Volatile Mind Extraordinary ability. Illusions also refers to mind-affecting psionic powers.
And, of course, +1 to arcane spellcasting class is replaced with +1 to psionic class.

Delcan
2007-11-01, 12:24 AM
Hee. Homebrew thread necromancy!

I'll have to address all new concerns tomorrow or day after, though. I think given all the feedback here, I've got enough to try to make this a set-in-stone prestige class.

As much as anyone this bonkers could be set in stone.

Darkbane
2007-11-01, 02:02 PM
Set in jello.

I love this class.

Volug
2007-11-02, 09:32 AM
I want to play one now!!!

These look fun to play:smallbiggrin:

Darkbane
2007-11-02, 03:50 PM
Hmm... my contribution.

Stardust
This fine powder shimmers, throwing motes of silver light everywhere. When taken (whether ingested, snorted, smoked...what have you), stardust induces a highly emotional state. For one hour, the subject's moods alter on a whim; the slightest criticism or praise can send the user into a crushing gloom or a soaring high. All morale bonuses and penalties are increased in magnitude by 2. Stardust has very strange effects when taken by magic-users; for the duration, all of the user's illusion spells are cast at +2 CL with a +2 increase to the save DC . However, the caster is also affected by his/her illusions, even if he/she would not normally be a valid target.