Where's Roy?

[twofry]

So, the Resurrection spell has been cast, everyone else shows up, where's Roy?:smalleek:

[Haven]

Um, neither of those things has happened (that is, Celia, Durkon, and Belkar are still offscreen, and the spell presumably hasn't finished casting)?

Done.

[Hacktor]

about 10-20 rounds passed... out of 10 minutes :P

[Serrae]

Yeah its really not been very long at all, that's why Haley and Elan are still running to tell Hinjo that V has teleported off.

10 minutes can take a long time in rounds... Or it can take absolutely no time, just have all the Pc's declare they have nothing to do...

[shadzar]

7 more minutes until Roy returns huh?

I bet Eugene did it, the teleporting I mean. Or there was one last thing left by Lord Shujo when the order was present and something triggered it when X tried to kill off V and O'Chul sending them to Hinjo or Lein. Old codger had tricks left up his sleeve after all to protect those loyal to him in the event someone pulled off an assassination. :smallbiggrin:

[Totally Guy]

Maybe he needs to get dressed. Haley and Elan saw it coming so they left early.

[Morquard]

7 more minutes until Roy returns huh?

I bet Eugene did it, the teleporting I mean. Or there was one last thing left by Lord Shujo when the order was present and something triggered it when X tried to kill off V and O'Chul sending them to Hinjo or Lein. Old codger had tricks left up his sleeve after all to protect those loyal to him in the event someone pulled off an assassination. :smallbiggrin:
Now wouldn't it have been smart then if he had cast it on himself as well?
Of course he could have made an exception "Don't teleport when one of my paladins tries to strike me down, only when ninjas do it", but that would be rather stupid :)

And Eugene can't do anything on the material plane anymore, just like Roy can't.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

So, the Resurrection spell has been cast, everyone else shows up, where's Roy?:smalleek:

If it has finished being cast...

He could be getting his clothes on, getting a run down from Durkon or filling Durkon in on his afterlife experiences... or getting ready for his big reveal, only for O-Chul to steal his thunder. :smallbiggrin:

But maybe it hasn't, and not that much time has passed in Azure City with V and co. Although I'm not sure - how long had Durkon been casting before V teleported out?

[shadzar]

Now wouldn't it have been smart then if he had cast it on himself as well?
Of course he could have made an exception "Don't teleport when one of my paladins tries to strike me down, only when ninjas do it", but that would be rather stupid :)

And Eugene can't do anything on the material plane anymore, just like Roy can't.

There is a bit of problem with that. Eugene appeared to everyone not as himself when he was helping Shujo. So he might have been able to do more than you think.

Sure he could have had Eugene protect him, but with what?

In the event of my death teleport my corpse somewhere else? :smallconfused:

I am only speculating with what we have, and how Roy is prone to return soon, and just to tick him off there would be Eugene with some kind of magical help for his people while Roy as a fighter was unable to do anything whilst dead. :smallbiggrin:

So the first thing Roy gets when coming back to life is Eugene's help and Roy will have to deal with it later. Eugene could even tell him just before Roy goes back into his body.

~Roy wakes up in his body.~

:roy: Damn you Dad! :smallfurious:

Just the best thing to get the order back on track with a healthy and pissed off Roy.

:smallbiggrin:

[NerfTW]

7 more minutes until Roy returns huh?

I bet Eugene did it, the teleporting I mean. Or there was one last thing left by Lord Shujo when the order was present and something triggered it when X tried to kill off V and O'Chul sending them to Hinjo or Lein. Old codger had tricks left up his sleeve after all to protect those loyal to him in the event someone pulled off an assassination. :smallbiggrin:

No, the MitD did it. It was very clear that he did something, the roaches looked at him, and he said "What? Why are you looking at me like that?"

[Souhiro]

Hey, his very own eyes brighted, as hands of wizzards do when they cast spells. And he used CAPS, as wizzards do. So, MitD cast something to make'em escape.

[shadzar]

Hey, his very own eyes brighted, as hands of wizzards do when they cast spells. And he used CAPS, as wizzards do. So, MitD cast something to make'em escape.

Wizzards? :smallconfused: I haven't seen Rincewind in OOTS yet. Did I miss him somewhere?

[Dinvan]

Wizzards? :smallconfused: I haven't seen Rincewind in OOTS yet. Did I miss him somewhere?

LOL Low blow :D

[Jair Barik]

and yet Durkon chose to use the diamond instead of the much quicker scroll of resurrection that he has been saving for such an occasion...

There is more lies and trickery in what the fiends said than many may first notice me thinks

and yeah still going to take a little while to finish casting

[Optimystik]

and yet Durkon chose to use the diamond instead of the much quicker scroll of resurrection that he has been saving for such an occasion...

There is more lies and trickery in what the fiends said than many may first notice me thinks

and yeah still going to take a little while to finish casting

The scroll (if it exists) is for emergencies. They're in no hurry. Why would he use it if he has the spell prepared?



10 minutes can take a long time in rounds... Or it can take absolutely no time, just have all the Pc's declare they have nothing to do...

A round is 6 seconds. And the "later that evening" trick won't work here because one of the PC's IS doing something... Durkon is resurrecting Roy!

[Jair Barik]

The scroll (if it exists) is for emergencies. They're in no hurry. Why would he use it if he has the spell prepared?


Well he was pretty distressed to find that his diamond was missing. The way he acted implied that they needed to get one urgently considering how quickly they all wanted Roy to be resurrected I find it hard to believe that he would rather find a new diamond than use the scroll

[Optimystik]

Well he was pretty distressed to find that his diamond was missing. The way he acted implied that they needed to get one urgently considering how quickly they all wanted Roy to be resurrected I find it hard to believe that he would rather find a new diamond than use the scroll

He might have used the scroll (again, if it even exists - we only have the fiends' word for it) had the Order been unable to procure a replacement diamond. They did, so he didn't.

[Jair Barik]

A valid point
I suppose it can be interpreted either way

Personally I'd like to think that this is the fiends playing upon V's lack of knowledge about his party and divine spells. We know that V is ignorant to the cast time of a resurrection spell (and probably ignorant to a lot of other divine knowledge too) and we also know that he isolated himself from his friends.

The alternate solution to the deal seems to convenient to work, especially considering that it would take the MBD approximately 4 rounds to kill and soul bind V's family (assuming no torture) while it would take over 4 rounds for them to get V's master to get there (assuming no dialogue or hesitation by characters as taking a round)

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

For the... THE SCROLL IS NOT RESTRUCCTION, THE SCROLL IS SENDING!

[Random832]

How plausible is it that he would prepare a scroll at a cost of (if i'm reading this right) 12,275gp* and 91XP, for a situation that may never come up - and that, having done so, when the situation does come up he wouldn't use it? Though admittedly "he'd still have the scroll" is at least a somewhat good reason for the latter. Not clear why he didn't immediately go for it upon finding the diamond was lost, though.

Also - as far as I can tell, the rules are silent on whether a scroll offers a way around a long casting time for a spell. We have the fiends' word, but since V is ignorant about divine magic they could be lying and no contradiction would be offered.

*magical ink for scribing scrolls is a lot more expensive than inkjet printer ink, apparently.


For the... THE SCROLL IS NOT RESTRUCCTION, THE SCROLL IS SENDING!

Actually... both have ten-minute casting times. So they'd need two scrolls for it to not be a factor.

I think this can be safely put down to them taking advantage of V's ignorance about divine magic. But the scroll is probably Sending due to both the implausibility of a Resurrection scroll and the fact that V would definitely know about Sending's casting time but demonstrably does not know about Resurrection's.

Hmm... I think the question of their motives for wanting V to believe there is another option becomes more complex if they're lying to make that appear to be the case.

[Jair Barik]

Ah, I see now that it is sending that they refer to the scroll as.
But the point does remain that they lied to him. And yes it does highlight his ignorance of divine magic.

[Pyro]

Wait...raise dead doesn't bring you back with clothes? :smalleek:

[Eldrys]

So, the Resurrection spell has been cast, everyone else shows up, where's Roy?:smalleek:

That battle only took about a minute. Ten minutes is 600 rounds, I don't think that battle lasted more than 15 rounds, at the most.

[Random832]

That battle only took about a minute. Ten minutes is 600 rounds

100 rounds. One round = 6 seconds = 1/10 of a minute.

But yeah - though, now that we're out of combat, the rest of the casting time will probably go by fast - Probably Roy walks in in the middle of O-Chul's debriefing.

[RMS Oceanic]

Wait...raise dead doesn't bring you back with clothes? :smalleek:

I think that's the case. If so, it's a perfect opportunity to resurrect an ancient joke: "Please cast blindness on me."

[Serrae]

A round is 6 seconds. And the "later that evening" trick won't work here because one of the PC's IS doing something... Durkon is resurrecting Roy!

That just changes it from a"later this evening" trick to a "After the spell is cast" trick caused by everyone but Durkon saying they have nothing to do for the next 8 minutes or so.

Of course we could end up having another 25 comics of Paladins debriefing, Azurites settling, OoTS re-uniting properly and The fiends taking their payment from V before Roy gets back on his feet.

Hey for all we know that monster that destroyed Roys skeleton could have stepped on Durkon while he's off panel causing him to fail a concentration check and then a pack of wild dogs could have come and stolen all of Roy's bones... Who knows?

Tune in next time for a possible chance of a conclusion of some kind or other... or maybe something about the Linear guild?

[Drider]

Wait...raise dead doesn't bring you back with clothes? :smalleek:

If cast on a naked dead body, I suppose, and roy is just a bunch of dust. The spell does'nt say it creates clothes, but I imagine that some DMs give a free 0 copper loincloth/tarp/sheet put over you/something, rather than go into extreme detail describing a nude character, and the first thing the other party members would often do is give them their eq back(if they were'nt *** hats)

[Keshay]

Hey for all we know that monster that destroyed Roys skeleton could have stepped on Durkon while he's off panel causing him to fail a concentration check and then a pack of wild dogs could have come and stolen all of Roy's bones... Who knows?

The monster that destroyed Roy's skeleton? That was V polymorphed into a dragon. Were you joking or did you think that was a "Now for something completely different" moment, but with a big reptile foot rather than a human foot.

[Mystic Muse]

where's Roy?:smalleek:

in the comic strip "Order of the Stick" :smalltongue:

[Berserk Monk]

Resurrection has a casting time of 10 minutes. I don't think it's been that long.

[Teln]

Wait...raise dead doesn't bring you back with clothes? :smalleek:

It brings you back with whatever you're wearing at the time of the raising. However, this is a moot point as Durkon's been casting Resurrection ever since#649 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0649.html).

[gjp]

Wizzards? :smallconfused: I haven't seen Rincewind in OOTS yet. Did I miss him somewhere?

ROFL @ Rincewind comment..

He would totally fit in to the whole thing too..

I call for a Rincewind cameo

:-D

[David Argall]

Ah, I see now that it is sending that they refer to the scroll as.
But the point does remain that they lied to him. And yes it does highlight his ignorance of divine magic.

If we take the strip as perfect, then the fiends lied since their plan was impossible. However, it is more likely this is just a plothole and our writer didn't notice that Durkon was at that point far away from the fleet and on his way to Greysky. The fiends in such a case have every reason to not lie. [And every reason not to be honest]. The whole idea makes no sense if they lied. [It makes little enough if they told the truth, and looks more like the author trying to show how clever he can be.] They needed V's agreement, not V's soul, and anything that endangered that agreement threatened their entire plot.

[shadzar]

LOL Low blow :D

:smallconfused: Huh? What's a low blow? Was I mistaken and it wasn't a reference to Rincewind? Although V kind of has the tendency to act a lot like Rincewind in aptitude for magic...

:smallconfused:

[B.Bitterleaf]

Who needs Roy? I'm the new hero. :D You'll see...

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Ah, I see now that it is sending that they refer to the scroll as.
But the point does remain that they lied to him. And yes it does highlight his ignorance of divine magic.

Well only yellow eyes outright said there is another way to save them (making it sound like a sure thing), he could be the CE or NE one, which means lying wouldn't be so bad for him.

I don't think it mattered or not whether it would possibly have worked (and it wouldn't, because people weren't where they were meant to be and the magic involved would have taken to long), the whole point was to give V the illusion that there was another way to save his family.


If we take the strip as perfect, then the fiends lied since their plan was impossible. However, it is more likely this is just a plothole and our writer didn't notice that Durkon was at that point far away from the fleet and on his way to Greysky. The fiends in such a case have every reason to not lie. [And every reason not to be honest]. The whole idea makes no sense if they lied. [It makes little enough if they told the truth, and looks more like the author trying to show how clever he can be.] They needed V's agreement, not V's soul, and anything that endangered that agreement threatened their entire plot.

True, although maybe it suggests that the IFCC themselves hadn't been paying close attention to Elan and Durkon. They might not have known they had left the boat by that time, what with focusing on V.

The whole ressurection time thing is tricky, but then they never said V would necessarily get back in time to stop his family being killed. Just that if it happened V's master would still be able to intercede before the ABD did the soul binding and left the plane.

And I don't know about the author showing how clever he could be. I don't think the plan was meant to look attractive or sensible, all that mattered was that the Fiends gave V the illusion there was an alternative, crazy as it sounded, that might work. All it would take is V being largely powerless and the fate of his children resting on everyone else, from Qarr up to his master Aarindarius.

[holywhippet]

and yet Durkon chose to use the diamond instead of the much quicker scroll of resurrection that he has been saving for such an occasion...


Scrolls take the same amount of time to cast as a regular spell.


You know, I can't help be vaguely worried. Is there a chance that they grabbed the wrong bone golem? We never saw more than one but it's possible. If so, then they could either wrongly think that Roy doesn't want to be ressurected. Or they could get someone else entirely - any chance the goblins were selling body parts to Grubwiggler for money and happened to sell him a somewhat bisected monk/paladin?

[Random832]

Scrolls take the same amount of time to cast as a regular spell.

I looked up the rules earlier today, and it doesn't seem to be conclusive as to whether that time is spent when scribing the scroll or when activating it. Material and XP costs are certainly paid when scribing rather than when activating.

And since that's not divine-magic-specific knowledge, one would expect V to object to their claim that the scroll would bypass the casting time.

Anyway, they were clearly talking about a scroll of sending - V was already alive in the panel where he was shown activating a scroll.

[holywhippet]

I looked up the rules earlier today, and it doesn't seem to be conclusive as to whether that time is spent when scribing the scroll or when activating it.

From the SRD:
A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way.

I'm almost certain there's an entry that says it more specifically, but as far as I can tell a spell scroll is supposed to be all the preparation work for casting a spell - ie. the stuff a wizard does after resting so as to be able to cast the spell later.

[Almaseti]

When V knew that there was another way to save his/her family but chose to use the splice, he was acting out of pride rather than concern, thus "the wrong reasons." The fiends did this as a way to nudge V towards the Dark Side. They're fiends, afterall. Tempting people is kinda what they do, and it's hard to get out of any encounter with them without some kind of spiritual stain. Definitely not when you're in as vulnerable a position as V was.


and yet Durkon chose to use the diamond instead of the much quicker scroll of resurrection that he has been saving for such an occasion...

There is more lies and trickery in what the fiends said than many may first notice me thinks

and yeah still going to take a little while to finish casting

Wasn't it a Sending Scroll, anyway? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html).

[shadzar]

Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance (such as from armor).

It doesn't state whether scrolls take the same length of time as straight casting, except they require no materials or focus...except in the case of the target being an item then the item being targeted is required.

Also a scroll is susceptible to disruption as casting a normal spell....

:smallconfused:

So if everything needed for the spell was built into the scroll, then I see no reason why time itself was built into it. Otherwise you are having the spell cast twice. Once for full casting duration when making the scroll, and then again when releasing the spell from the scroll to use it.

Is there something that would help in wands descriptions about casting times for wands with spell functions? :smallconfused:

[Keshay]

Casting a spell from a scroll is a standard action, regardless of the casting time of the spell being cast. From the SRD:


Spell Completion
This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

[Optimystik]

The ruling can go either way (i.e. a scroll can be a standard action regardless of spell, or it can depend on the scribed spell's actual casting time.) Rich has clearly chosen the former interpretation, going by the Fiends' comments and the strip with Nale's Sendings.

In addition, a major rule governing D&D is "specific trumps general." Keshay's rule quote is more specific than holywhippet's because it gives an exact measurement for a scroll's 'casting time.' It would therefore have the greater weight in a rules dispute.

[Kaytara]

The whole ressurection time thing is tricky, but then they never said V would necessarily get back in time to stop his family being killed. Just that if it happened V's master would still be able to intercede before the ABD did the soul binding and left the plane.

Which, incidentally, never made sense to me. Soul Binding takes one round. So if the ABD had taken, say, ten rounds to kill the family, then she would have needed twelve rounds in total to Soul Bind the children after that. Two rounds or twelve seconds are not a hell of a difference. From where comes the certainty that, if Aandy failed to prevent the deaths, then he would certainly appear in time to prevent the Soul Binding?
I expect they were just counting on V not to dwell on that detail because of him being tired and panicked, not to mention all the other food for thought that they'd piled on to him shortly afterward.

[Snake-Aes]

Well only yellow eyes outright said there is another way to save them (making it sound like a sure thing), he could be the CE or NE one, which means lying wouldn't be so bad for him.
Who said LEs don't lie? For all I know, the reason of the lie is the only thing that stops people from lieing. LG could lie, CG could ile, CE could lie, LE will definitely lie.

There is a reason they named LE as the "Conspirator" Archetype.

[hamishspence]

Ironically, in Waterdeep: City of Splendours, one of the CE villains in the sourcebook doesn't lie, ever, though he might bend the truth a lot. Ex-Paladin who refused to admit to himself that he has gone bad.

[Optimystik]

Who said LEs don't lie? For all I know, the reason of the lie is the only thing that stops people from lieing. LG could lie, CG could ile, CE could lie, LE will definitely lie.

There is a reason they named LE as the "Conspirator" Archetype.

FC2: Devils always speak the truth. They might omit crucial information or leave the listener with a mistaken impression, but anything they actually say they believe to be true.

Remember that devils are not only embodiments of evil, they are embodiments of law as well. They physically cannot lie. Deception is another matter entirely, and something all fiends are capable of. (A subtle distinction, but it's there.)

[Snake-Aes]

FC2: Devils always speak the truth. They might omit crucial information or leave the listener with a mistaken impression, but anything they actually say they believe to be true.

Remember that devils are not only embodiments of evil, they are embodiments of law as well. They physically cannot lie. Deception is another matter entirely, and something all fiends are capable of. (A subtle distinction, but it's there.)

This is what I hate in the original english. People only see the "Law" in "Lawful". A much, MUCH better adjective for the lawful axis end is "Orderly".
Anyway. Devils never lieing. That is...stupid at best. I can't picture a successful devil never lieing, not if they want to outwit people.

[hamishspence]

They can, its just very very rare. Lying will automatically invalidate their fiendish contracts- but that wouldn't have to be mentioned if it didn't happen occasionally.

Same with breaking infernal law- it happens, just not often. For example, any attack by a devil on another devil that is not a underling of its, or a lot of levels below (9 ranks) is illegal, unless its an official duel. But its not that rare.

Modrons might be embodiments of Law, but devils have a bit more slack to work with.

[Optimystik]

This is what I hate in the original english. People only see the "Law" in "Lawful". A much, MUCH better adjective for the lawful axis end is "Orderly".
Anyway. Devils never lieing. That is...stupid at best. I can't picture a successful devil never lieing, not if they want to outwit people.

You can speak the truth exclusively and outwit people with ease. See also: the Aes Sedai from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. (Is that where your name came from perhaps?)

[Snake-Aes]

You can speak the truth exclusively and outwit people with ease. See also: the Aes Sedai from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. (Is that where your name came from perhaps?)

There are limits to it. You are talking about beings naturally evil. Stomping people on the way up is almost obligatory. Lies are great tools to that purpose.

[hamishspence]

One of the most classic devilish acts is betrayal- which would generally involve showing, that any promise of loyalty you made, was a lie.

I see devils as like Vulcans- they lie when its appropiate, but go out of their way to look as honest as possible most of the time.

FC2 mentions that devils can act somewhat chaotic- its just frowned on. Emotions tend to be chaotic, and logic and reason lawful, but sometimes, their evilness outweighs their lawfulness. Or getting drunk- associated with chaotic behaviour as strongly discouraged, but still happens.

[Random832]

Who said LEs don't lie? For all I know, the reason of the lie is the only thing that stops people from lieing. LG could lie, CG could ile, CE could lie, LE will definitely lie.

There is a reason they named LE as the "Conspirator" Archetype.

Assuming that it was the truth, there are two possibilities: One, that they were somehow obligated (either by the lawful one's "conscience" such as it is, or by the IFCC charter, or something else entirely) to present all options, or two, that some aspect of their plan requires V not to believe that there is no other choice. If they were lying, the first possibility (which I believe to be the simpler one) is eliminated.

[Random832]

Anyway. Devils never lieing. That is...stupid at best. I can't picture a successful devil never lieing, not if they want to outwit people.

A guaranteed reputation for always telling the truth can be a VERY powerful tool if you are otherwise free to mislead people - if it's known that they can never lie, they could probably get a lot of mileage out of even admitting just how they tricked their past victims - people's pride will do the rest - believing that they're not stupid enough to fall for something like that.

[NerfTW]

Scrolls take the same amount of time to cast as a regular spell.


You know, I can't help be vaguely worried. Is there a chance that they grabbed the wrong bone golem? We never saw more than one but it's possible. If so, then they could either wrongly think that Roy doesn't want to be ressurected. Or they could get someone else entirely - any chance the goblins were selling body parts to Grubwiggler for money and happened to sell him a somewhat bisected monk/paladin?


That would be an obnoxious and gratuitous extending of the current storyline. They're all together, on the western continent, the location of the next gate they need to get to. Forcing them to travel all the way BACK to Greysky, on another continent, find the body, and then return would serve no plot, character, or development purpose.

[David Argall]

When V knew that there was another way to save his/her family but chose to use the splice, he was acting out of pride rather than concern, thus "the wrong reasons." The fiends did this as a way to nudge V towards the Dark Side. They're fiends, afterall. Tempting people is kinda what they do, and it's hard to get out of any encounter with them without some kind of spiritual stain.

The problem here is that the fiends have bigger fish to fry. If V were to take their idea, their whole plot goes down the tube. At most they get the soul of one lousy mage. Not worth their time. They are playing for something that might destroy gods and worlds. Risking all that for the sake of putting V's moral position into doubt is just stupid, like stopping to pick up a penny when escaping a burning house.

[hamishspence]

Unless V's moral position has to be that way, for the fiend's later plan to work.

If there is a rule that "unselfish" donations of soul are automatically void, with celestials turning up at the important moment to say:
"Hey- V made the deal purely because V believed it was the only way to save others- that means you don't get to use V's soul."
:then they'd have to do this sort of thing to prevent it.

[Kaytara]

I agree with hamishpence, it's pretty likely that they needed V to take the deal at least partially for bad motives so that he couldn't weasel out of his payment later..

But anyway, here's something else. ARE devils really all that Lawful in OotS-verse? I present to you Exhibit A, Qarr. Kubota counted on him for backup. Qarr said that Vaarsuvius smoked his boss, which he could only have known if he was nearby and watching - and deliberately failing to act to assist his master. Either he betrayed whatever oath of loyalty he made when entering Kubota's service, or he found a loophole, which for all intents and purposes is similar where trusting lawful evil fiends is concerned.

Really, it doesn't even matter all that much if LE fiends are physically incapable of speaking falsehoods or not. The alternate plan was hopeless even in that regard, because the command "After I slit my throat, cut off my head and teleport it to the fleet" has more loopholes than it has substance. For example, it doesn't preclude Qarr doing exactly as commanded, except dropping the head into some barrel or unused room where it won't be found for hours. Or first disfiguring the head in such a way as to make it unrecognisable. Or anything similar. Giving enough commands to more or less prevent that kind of outcome would take so much time that it would completely defeat the purpose.

[Optimystik]

But anyway, here's something else. ARE devils really all that Lawful in OotS-verse? I present to you Exhibit A, Qarr. Kubota counted on him for backup. Qarr said that Vaarsuvius smoked his boss, which he could only have known if he was nearby and watching - and deliberately failing to act to assist his master. Either he betrayed whatever oath of loyalty he made when entering Kubota's service, or he found a loophole, which for all intents and purposes is similar where trusting lawful evil fiends is concerned.

On the contrary; to an LE villain (and a Devil in particular) getting out of a contract on a loophole is very different from actually breaching that contract. Remember that to them, the letter of the law is paramount and its spirit or intent is meaningless. Without knowing the exact wording of Qarr's agreement with Kubota, we have no way of knowing if he actually violated any of its strictures.

Just as important, we don't know if Qarr was in a position to assist Kubota. The last time we saw him before Kubota's death was when he teleported off the island. Even Kubota didn't know where he was. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html)


Really, it doesn't even matter all that much if LE fiends are physically incapable of speaking falsehoods or not. The alternate plan was hopeless even in that regard, because the command "After I slit my throat, cut off my head and teleport it to the fleet" has more loopholes than it has substance. For example, it doesn't preclude Qarr doing exactly as commanded, except dropping the head into some barrel or unused room where it won't be found for hours. Or first disfiguring the head in such a way as to make it unrecognisable. Or anything similar. Giving enough commands to more or less prevent that kind of outcome would take so much time that it would completely defeat the purpose.

What would Qarr have to gain by doing any of that? He needed V alive for his personal project.

[Dagren]

The ruling can go either way (i.e. a scroll can be a standard action regardless of spell, or it can depend on the scribed spell's actual casting time.) Rich has clearly chosen the former interpretation, going by the Fiends' comments and the strip with Nale's Sendings.Actually, he's done both (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html). Durkon is clearly taking more than a round to use his scroll here. One theory for this apparent inconsistency is that divine magic uses one rule and arcane the other, although seeing as we only have one example of each type, it could just as easily be related to the specific spell. (Control Weather specifically states it takes 10 minutes)

[Porthos]

it could just as easily be related to the specific spell. (Control Weather specifically states it takes 10 minutes)

This is it exactly. :smallsmile:


You control the general tendencies of the weather, such as the direction and intensity of the wind. You cannot control specific applications of the weather—where lightning strikes, for example, or the exact path of a tornado. When you select a certain weather condition to occur, the weather assumes that condition 10 minutes later (changing gradually, not abruptly). The weather continues as you left it for the duration, or until you use a standard action to designate a new kind of weather (which fully manifests itself 10 minutes later). Contradictory conditions are not possible simultaneously.

Also, if you look closely at that strip, Durkon is NOT casting a spell from the scroll. In all other instances of scroll use, the scroll is glowing when being used, but not in this case. In fact, it's Durkon's holy symbol which is being used. This suggests that the spell has already "gone off" and that it's Durkon controling the spell via his holy symbol.

So it seems to me that Rich has been entirely consistent when it comes to scroll use. :smallsmile:

[Optimystik]

Actually, he's done both (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html). Durkon is clearly taking more than a round to use his scroll here. One theory for this apparent inconsistency is that divine magic uses one rule and arcane the other, although seeing as we only have one example of each type, it could just as easily be related to the specific spell. (Control Weather specifically states it takes 10 minutes)

As you yourself ended your post with, Control Weather (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Controlweather.htm) is what we call an exceptional exception.

[Keshay]

Actually, he's done both (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0352.html). Durkon is clearly taking more than a round to use his scroll here. One theory for this apparent inconsistency is that divine magic uses one rule and arcane the other, although seeing as we only have one example of each type, it could just as easily be related to the specific spell. (Control Weather specifically states it takes 10 minutes)

Speaking is a free action. If using that scroll had taken 10 minutes, the entire fight would have been over forever and a day before he was done casting. The apparent delay in casting was done for dramatic/comedic effect, specifically to get in a "Catatonic Gay Dwarf" joke.

You also choose to ignore the next strip where the rule breaking is clearly pointed out and Thor basically says "It worked that way because I wanted it to."

[Bibliomancer]

Another point is that the fiends might have been implying that if the trail was only 20 minutes cold V's master would have been able to track the dragon, possibly by using Epic Scrying. Given that it is implied that Master Aarindarius could defeat the dragon with one spell while not paying attention (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html), it's fairly safe to assume that he's in the low epic levels, at least.

Also, talking isn't always a free action (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) in this comic, so that fight might have gone on for quite a while. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html)

[HealthKit]

You know, I can't help be vaguely worried. Is there a chance that they grabbed the wrong bone golem? We never saw more than one but it's possible. If so, then they could either wrongly think that Roy doesn't want to be ressurected. Or they could get someone else entirely - any chance the goblins were selling body parts to Grubwiggler for money and happened to sell him a somewhat bisected monk/paladin?


Well, I think...
that would be entirely possible. I wouldn't be surprised. It seems like there's always something setting the OotS back from moving forward, resurrecting someone who is not Roy by accident would seem like a fitting setback, given the situation. It certainly seems like something Rich would do.