PDA

View Full Version : Have an idea, need some help



golfmade
2009-06-15, 10:43 AM
Good friend of mine will be starting a homebrew campaign later this summer. His world is somewhat similar to the Witcher (great game btw, still haven't finished it though).

He is allowing most races, including Drow, Tiefling and Aasimar as PCs.

I've come up with an idea for a character but I would like some advice for how to flesh him out more as well as what type of progression I should be looking at.

I'm interested to play a Tiefling who is a cleric, however because most people would probably not accept healing from a Tiefling he has had to focus his powers on slaying evil (yeah the irony I know but hold on) and monster hunting.

Part of the hook is that he's trying to redeem himself and his own tiefling blood so to speak, so whichever god he works for (still haven't decided) he works hard to receive blessings and please his god by hunting down evil, monsters and helping protect others from evil.

I'm not at all familiar with cleric spells and domains, but it seems like to me he would be a more offense based cleric and would focus less on healing and such.

And well, another reason is I only really started playing 3.5 last year and up to now all my characters have been chaotic good and I find that their choices and actions are pretty much the same. I'm looking to break out a bit and play something else and hopefully expand my own role playing ability and I see this as a good chance.

Any ideas or advice are welcomed.

Coidzor
2009-06-15, 10:48 AM
So what gods are available? The ones available'll probably either give some perspective on his crusade relative to the rest of his faith or help color/direct/focus the nature and rationale he uses to justify it.

Could go with either the destruction, purification, willing to burn all of the evil out of himself if he could but since it doesn't seem like he can, he'll settle for destroying as much evil as he can get his mace into or the redemption-angle, I've had a chance to turn my back on evil and prove myself, and so should others.

There are a number of buffs that the cleric gets which would allow him to be very good at bashing in skulls (as well as other things) such as divine favor, divine power, the Animal's X spells....

If you or your group have access to the spell compendium, then that opens up some more offensive options for spells, but... you're not going to be a blaster as a cleric.

Master_Rahl22
2009-06-15, 10:58 AM
Sounds like whichever gods are available, you'll want to pick one with Strength, War, Protection, or Destruction domains. All of those are good domains with nifty domain powers and spell choices, and all fit your theme of smiting evil. You could look into Warpriest from Complete Divine as a possible PrC since it's about divine casters that kick butt and help out large groups of people to kick butt too.

golfmade
2009-06-15, 10:59 AM
All gods from the PHB are available.

I've been thinking of Heironeous, of course I realize if I play say, a chaotic neutral Tiefling by the base rules I wouldn't be able to work for this god but again my friend is house ruling a lot of stuff and had already told me will let us do quite a bit of stuff providing we can come up with a good back story and of course play it out.

Do have a copy of the Spell Compendium so I'll take a look through there thanks.

Purification sounds good.

I guess I should clarify a bit I'm not exactly looking to be a blaster, more so just be able bodied in combat (especially since well, we only have 2 PC's myself and another friend who will be playing a rogue) so I'll need to tank a bit so to speak, but to me that just makes it more interesting how to play such a character. Well that and kick some evil monster ass.

golfmade
2009-06-15, 11:01 AM
Sounds like whichever gods are available, you'll want to pick one with Strength, War, Protection, or Destruction domains. All of those are good domains with nifty domain powers and spell choices, and all fit your theme of smiting evil. You could look into Warpriest from Complete Divine as a possible PrC since it's about divine casters that kick butt and help out large groups of people to kick butt too.

One thing I've noticed and perhaps can get an answer here is: It seems like most domains either have nice feats or skills you get with it, but the spells are so so, where as other domains have great spells but so so feats.

As for Warpriest I'll take a look at it, thanks.

Nohwl
2009-06-15, 11:45 AM
heres a link to the cleric handbook. you can find everything you need in it.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0

SSGoW
2009-06-15, 11:56 AM
www.d20srd.org will help a bit

www.crystalkeep.com

although the tiefling looking for redemption has been overused...

if you are allowed to take the protection domain and see if you can make an inverted prismatic sphere and get close to a monster and use it. that way if the monster trys to move out of it then it will be in big trouble. (basically rewrite the spell so that the entrance and exits are swapped) this is really great if you have a yourself,a fighter or a barbarian (maybe even a monk) to push or throwthe monster through the sphere (thus pain insures).

this helps in many ways, you are keeping the monster confined away from the others, you have a chance to push them into the sphere of deathly doom, and also give you cover to fight said monster so it can be all dramatic in the sense "i'll sacrifice myself to try and defeat this monster the rest of you run!"

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-15, 12:58 PM
Workin' with ye olde PHB gods, eh? To make a melee cleric who fights Evil? Here are my suggestions.

Heironeous champions honor and valor. He's most appropriate to your stereotypical knight in shining armor sort. If your character obsessively holds himself to exacting moral standards out of fear of falling to evil inclinations, Heironeous could be a great god for him. (Choose the War and Good or Glory domains.)

Kord promotes strength and the slaying of evil monsters. He's not really about feeding the hungry or healing the sick, but rather protecting those not yet strong enough to protect themselves from those who would threaten them. From the sound of things, that's your character's angle, so Kord could be a great god for him. (Choose the Strength and Good or Competition domains.)

Pelor promotes both ministering to the needy and fighting Evil. Naturally, many of his followers will specialize in one of these over the other; adventuring clerics are more likely to be the Evil-fightin' variety. But the fight against Evil is simply a means to protecting those that Evil would harm; at the end of the day, it's all about helping people. (Choose the Strength and Good, Sun, or Glory domains.)

St. Cuthbert, on the other hand, strongly favors punishing wrongdoers. Innocent people deserve to be protected, but guilty people deserve just retribution just as much. It's by giving everyone what he deserves that one encourages proper behavior. After all, once you've finally got everyone behaving properly, there's no further need for corrective measures. Ergo, RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE! (Choose the Strength and Destruction or Retribution domains.)

B.Bitterleaf
2009-06-15, 02:47 PM
damn spoilers - can't stop me - need to hit the show-button - oh no, I've done it again :D

Narmoth
2009-06-15, 04:36 PM
Do you need to have a specific deity from the rules? If not, I found destruction and healing domains as good all round domains for an offense-cleric.
War domain is poor, but some of the elemental domains are good as well

golfmade
2009-06-16, 09:59 AM
For Nohwl:


heres a link to the cleric handbook. you can find everything you need in it.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0

Thank you, looks like a plethora of information and I will take my time looking through it, much thanks.

For SSGoW:


www.d20srd.org will help a bit

www.crystalkeep.com

although the tiefling looking for redemption has been overused...

if you are allowed to take the protection domain and see if you can make an inverted prismatic sphere and get close to a monster and use it. that way if the monster trys to move out of it then it will be in big trouble. (basically rewrite the spell so that the entrance and exits are swapped) this is really great if you have a yourself,a fighter or a barbarian (maybe even a monk) to push or throwthe monster through the sphere (thus pain insures).

this helps in many ways, you are keeping the monster confined away from the others, you have a chance to push them into the sphere of deathly doom, and also give you cover to fight said monster so it can be all dramatic in the sense "i'll sacrifice myself to try and defeat this monster the rest of you run!"

Thank you for the links.

Personally don't appreciate a response such as 'X is overused'. I'm new to role playing pencil and paper style and fairly new to doing it in D&D, so while to others it may have been done to death it's nothing I've ever done before. And as I mentioned I'm looking to broaden my role playing ability, as I'm getting a bit sick of playing chaotic good guys.

As for the protection domain thanks I'll take a look, however at the moment our group is fairly small, it'll be me and another person playing a rogue, so not sure if it'd be a good idea for me or him to try to push a beastie into the sphere. Always something to think of though so thanks.

For Devils_Advocate:


Workin' with ye olde PHB gods, eh? To make a melee cleric who fights Evil? Here are my suggestions.

Heironeous champions honor and valor. He's most appropriate to your stereotypical knight in shining armor sort. If your character obsessively holds himself to exacting moral standards out of fear of falling to evil inclinations, Heironeous could be a great god for him. (Choose the War and Good or Glory domains.)

Kord promotes strength and the slaying of evil monsters. He's not really about feeding the hungry or healing the sick, but rather protecting those not yet strong enough to protect themselves from those who would threaten them. From the sound of things, that's your character's angle, so Kord could be a great god for him. (Choose the Strength and Good or Competition domains.)

Pelor promotes both ministering to the needy and fighting Evil. Naturally, many of his followers will specialize in one of these over the other; adventuring clerics are more likely to be the Evil-fightin' variety. But the fight against Evil is simply a means to protecting those that Evil would harm; at the end of the day, it's all about helping people. (Choose the Strength and Good, Sun, or Glory domains.)

St. Cuthbert, on the other hand, strongly favors punishing wrongdoers. Innocent people deserve to be protected, but guilty people deserve just retribution just as much. It's by giving everyone what he deserves that one encourages proper behavior. After all, once you've finally got everyone behaving properly, there's no further need for corrective measures. Ergo, RIGHTEOUS VENGEANCE! (Choose the Strength and Destruction or Retribution domains.)

Great information and thank you for it. The more I think about it yeah, Heironeous would not be the right pick for this character. Kord and St. Cuthbert sound really right up the right alley so to speak, in fact St. Cuthbert as you described him is fairly in line with how I was planning to play this character, do my best to protect the innocent but if you're evil it's time to pay the piper!

For Narmoth:


Do you need to have a specific deity from the rules? If not, I found destruction and healing domains as good all round domains for an offense-cleric.
War domain is poor, but some of the elemental domains are good as well

Will ask my GM as I'm not sure. I will most likely stay away from the healing domains partly just as a part of roleplaying.

golfmade
2009-06-17, 10:35 AM
A more specific question:
Since I'm not going to heal much with this character I'm wondering if there is already a rule set forth that allows one to exchange the spontaneous heal to be able to use a different domain spell for example.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-17, 01:49 PM
Yes. You want the Spontaneous Domain Casting alternate class feature from the Player's Handbook II, which does exactly what it says on the tin. In exchange for giving up the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, you gain the ability to instead spontaneously cast spells from one of your domains.

In addition, you gain the ability to prepare cure or inflict spells in your domain slots (depending on whether you turn undead or rebuke undead). So, basically, one of your domain spell lists trades places with the cure or inflict spells for purposes of spontaneous casting and domain preparation.

quick_comment
2009-06-17, 01:52 PM
If you or your group have access to the spell compendium, then that opens up some more offensive options for spells, but... you're not going to be a blaster as a cleric.

Flamestrike and hammer of righteousness are pretty good.

subject42
2009-06-17, 02:26 PM
A more specific question:
Since I'm not going to heal much with this character I'm wondering if there is already a rule set forth that allows one to exchange the spontaneous heal to be able to use a different domain spell for example.

If you're willing to bend your alignment a bit, being neutral would allow you to use inflict, rather than heal for your spontaneous casting.

The highly focused DESTROY EVIL AT ALL COSTS philosophy that you described seems to have a bit more of a neutral, than good feel to it, anyway.

golfmade
2009-06-17, 11:13 PM
For Devils_Advocate:

Yes. You want the Spontaneous Domain Casting alternate class feature from the Player's Handbook II, which does exactly what it says on the tin. In exchange for giving up the ability to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, you gain the ability to instead spontaneously cast spells from one of your domains.

In addition, you gain the ability to prepare cure or inflict spells in your domain slots (depending on whether you turn undead or rebuke undead). So, basically, one of your domain spell lists trades places with the cure or inflict spells for purposes of spontaneous casting and domain preparation.
Much appreciated, will look up that feature when I get a chance. Still haven't decided if I'll take cure or inflict wounds yet as I'm most likely going to play a neutral character, but haven't decided lawful or chaotic yet.

For subject42:


If you're willing to bend your alignment a bit, being neutral would allow you to use inflict, rather than heal for your spontaneous casting.

The highly focused DESTROY EVIL AT ALL COSTS philosophy that you described seems to have a bit more of a neutral, than good feel to it, anyway.

Yeah, originally I was planning on playing chaotic neutral but I like the sound of St. Cuthbert and perhaps will change to lawful neutral, and play out my guy as a bit of a nutjob who sees his mission as that of, as you put it, destroying evil at all costs.

Keld Denar
2009-06-17, 11:29 PM
St Cuthbert sounds like a good fit for your character. Depending on what source you look at, he is discribed as either LN with good tendancies or LG with neutral tendancies. Either way, he does kinda walk the fine line between conviction and zealotry.

Another god that might be fun to look into would be Pholtus. Pholtus isn't a core D&D god, but he is a Greyhawk diety (same pantheon that all the core gods come from). Pholtus is THE BLINDING LIGHT and THE ONE TRUE PATH. His clerics are on a smite first, ask questions later (speak with dead) basis. Also, "re-education camps" (slave labor camps) are not uncommon among his followers. Unfortunately, Pholtites tend to have rather low opinions of non-humans, and would probably be more inclined to torture a tiefling to confession than induct him into the priesthood. Still, VERY fun cleric to play.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of good PrCs out there for clerics that would be fitting. If you went with Heironeous, there is the AMAZING Ordained Champion in Complete Champion. Its only 5 levels long, but gives you like, 8-9 abilities in those short 5 levels. Loses 2 caster levels, but generally considered one of the few classes that are "worth it". Otherwise, Cleric20 is still a remarkably upstanding build if you get your feats right. Probably good feats would be Power Attack, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell. That way you could keep a few personal buffs like Divine Power up all the time. Pretty feat intensive if you don't take the right domains though, and Undeath and Planning don't really fit into any of the above god's portfolios. Without those feats though, you could be doomed to stand by and buff yourself while your team mates are up to their eyeballs in orc guts. You could go Quicken + DMM: Quicken, but this limits your longevity in fights/day a bit.

Dagren
2009-06-18, 01:15 AM
Yeah, originally I was planning on playing chaotic neutral but I like the sound of St. Cuthbert and perhaps will change to lawful neutral, and play out my guy as a bit of a nutjob who sees his mission as that of, as you put it, destroying evil at all costs.Sounds a bit more interesting than the standard "repentant tiefling". Obsession can be a lot of fun if done right, just try not to get your party in trouble.

Autopsibiofeeder
2009-06-18, 01:26 AM
Like Keld Denar mentioned, if you have access to Complete Champion, check out the Ordained Champion. It requires you to be a heironeous priest (though that can be houseruled out).

Basically, at the cost of 2 caster levels, you get to spontaneously cast War domain spells instead of cure spells and eventually auto-quicken them. Next to the all-mighty Divine power, that domain features some nice high level damage/combat spells (quickened, remember). It also allows you to swap spell slots for relevant combat buffs, smitelage and spell channeling through your weapon. Most of his abilities are swift actions, so they don't hinder your skullbashing too much. Definately sounds like something you are looking for.

If your DM allows divine metamagic, a straight cleric will work just as well, of course.

Myrmex
2009-06-18, 03:38 AM
Sounds like a fun character to play. You should try to think up goals your character would want to accomplish (relatively minor ones; not slay all orcs or something) that he can work towards for a session. Rather than be wishy washy all over the place chaotic good, he might ignore someone in need or something shiny that interests the rogue in pursuing his goal. Be careful not to get into to much conflict with other players or the DM- that's why it should be relatively minor.

I think of this sort of LN nutjob as rigid- he takes promises very seriously, even if they are at great personal detriment. He should be concerned with honor and how one can righteously destroy evil (an oath must be kept), not how to contort oneself throw questionable moral hoops to destroy evil (hey, let's mug this old man so we can buy a new sword to kill an evil orc with).

golfmade
2009-06-18, 07:42 AM
First off I really appreciate everyone's responses. You've all been very helpful and have given me many different ideas for this character, both role play wise and gaming wise as well, really appreciate it and makes me wish I had started posting on this forum sooner.

For Keld Denar:

St Cuthbert sounds like a good fit for your character. Depending on what source you look at, he is discribed as either LN with good tendancies or LG with neutral tendancies. Either way, he does kinda walk the fine line between conviction and zealotry.

Another god that might be fun to look into would be Pholtus. Pholtus isn't a core D&D god, but he is a Greyhawk diety (same pantheon that all the core gods come from). Pholtus is THE BLINDING LIGHT and THE ONE TRUE PATH. His clerics are on a smite first, ask questions later (speak with dead) basis. Also, "re-education camps" (slave labor camps) are not uncommon among his followers. Unfortunately, Pholtites tend to have rather low opinions of non-humans, and would probably be more inclined to torture a tiefling to confession than induct him into the priesthood. Still, VERY fun cleric to play.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of good PrCs out there for clerics that would be fitting. If you went with Heironeous, there is the AMAZING Ordained Champion in Complete Champion. Its only 5 levels long, but gives you like, 8-9 abilities in those short 5 levels. Loses 2 caster levels, but generally considered one of the few classes that are "worth it". Otherwise, Cleric20 is still a remarkably upstanding build if you get your feats right. Probably good feats would be Power Attack, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persist Spell. That way you could keep a few personal buffs like Divine Power up all the time. Pretty feat intensive if you don't take the right domains though, and Undeath and Planning don't really fit into any of the above god's portfolios. Without those feats though, you could be doomed to stand by and buff yourself while your team mates are up to their eyeballs in orc guts. You could go Quicken + DMM: Quicken, but this limits your longevity in fights/day a bit.
I will ask my GM about Pholtus as I think I remember him saying he would allow Greyhawk deities as well. However I do think St. Cuthbert is the best choice, for many reasons that you all pointed out.

I was originally looking at the Warpriest prestige class however will take a look at the Ordained Champion. The way you describe it sounds very interesting and my GM is a more than reasonable guy, could probably work it in that I can do it even if I follow St. Cutbhert.


For Dagren

Sounds a bit more interesting than the standard "repentant tiefling". Obsession can be a lot of fun if done right, just try not to get your party in trouble.
I do of course realize that it's been done before but well, it's never been done by me in my short gaming career and the friends I game with haven't come across this, so why not. As for getting my party in trouble I'll be the first one to step up to the plate so to speak for any problems, but will do my best not to get in over my head haha.

For Autopsibiofeed

Like Keld Denar mentioned, if you have access to Complete Champion, check out the Ordained Champion. It requires you to be a heironeous priest (though that can be houseruled out).

Basically, at the cost of 2 caster levels, you get to spontaneously cast War domain spells instead of cure spells and eventually auto-quicken them. Next to the all-mighty Divine power, that domain features some nice high level damage/combat spells (quickened, remember). It also allows you to swap spell slots for relevant combat buffs, smitelage and spell channeling through your weapon. Most of his abilities are swift actions, so they don't hinder your skullbashing too much. Definately sounds like something you are looking for.

If your DM allows divine metamagic, a straight cleric will work just as well, of course.
Well since both you and Keld brought it up I'll really check out the Ordained Champion class. I'm fairly sure my GM would allow me to do it.

Being able to have quickened spells, can swap out and still skull bash sounds exactly like what I want to do!

For Myrmex

Sounds like a fun character to play. You should try to think up goals your character would want to accomplish (relatively minor ones; not slay all orcs or something) that he can work towards for a session. Rather than be wishy washy all over the place chaotic good, he might ignore someone in need or something shiny that interests the rogue in pursuing his goal. Be careful not to get into to much conflict with other players or the DM- that's why it should be relatively minor.

I think of this sort of LN nutjob as rigid- he takes promises very seriously, even if they are at great personal detriment. He should be concerned with honor and how one can righteously destroy evil (an oath must be kept), not how to contort oneself throw questionable moral hoops to destroy evil (hey, let's mug this old man so we can buy a new sword to kill an evil orc with).

Yeah, actually my GM has already given us homework of giving him a list of goals. Both minor, major and any specific equipment or bosses we'd like to face off against. Speaking of that if anyone recommends some nice clerical equipment that I could tell my GM I'd like to work towards, please feel free to let me know.

As for conflict with the group I don't say this as ego just the truth: We're really tight friends and get along really well. Granted we're a small group, but my one of my friends has played D&D since 1st edition and my other friend has played for years as well. I'm just glad I'm able to keep up with them since I'm so new to it all.

As for how you describe it, very rigid and takes promises seriously, and isn't too questionable in how he goes after evil, that's a good idea and will try to work it in, thanks.

golfmade
2009-06-20, 12:06 AM
If your DM allows divine metamagic, a straight cleric will work just as well, of course.

My DM actually pointed me to this feat today when I asked what feats I should look at for the first few levels (starting at first level but wanna do the planning now).

Lawless III
2009-06-20, 12:28 AM
I started out playing CG characters a lot too. Doing something dramatically different (such as a devout lawful cleric) is a real breath of fresh air.
I know it's been said, but ordained champion is a really fun class to play, especially if you haven't done anything similar before.

golfmade
2009-06-20, 12:33 AM
I started out playing CG characters a lot too. Doing something dramatically different (such as a devout lawful cleric) is a real breath of fresh air.
I know it's been said, but ordained champion is a really fun class to play, especially if you haven't done anything similar before.

Right, I'm having a lot of fun just thinking of different motivations and goals that this character would follow, especially if he's very devout and lawful where as almost every character I played before was chaotic.

Having read through it the OC class sounds a lot like what I'd like to do and my DM has told me he'll let me do it and just change it up a bit since of course in the original form only followers of Hextor or Heironeous can enter the class.

JonestheSpy
2009-06-20, 12:44 AM
Coming in late here, but it really sounds to me like the ideal deity for Golfmade's character is the Grewhawk deity Trithereon, the chaotic good god of Individuality, Liberty, Self-Defense, and Retribution. Lots and lots of reasons for a priest of said deity to go smacking out evil, with a decidedly chaotic flavor.

Details here: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=882

Keld Denar
2009-06-20, 01:01 AM
Ok, this is what I'd do if I were you:

St. Cuthbert's favored weapon is traditionally a Club (the Cudgel of St. Cuthbert). Other sects venerate the Mace. I'd see if you can swing a Great Club, as it'll get the maximal benefits of what you want to do!

Human Cleric (Strength, Destruction)
1 Cleric1 Power Attack, Law Devotion (Complete Champ)
2 Cleric2
3 Cleric3 Weapon Focus (Greatclub)
4 Cleric4
5 OrdChamp1 (War Domain)
6 OrdChamp2 AWESOME SMITE! (Complete Champ)
7 OrdChamp3
8 OrdChamp4
9 OrdChamp5 Holy Warrior (Complete Champ)

from there, you can do whatever. Go back to Cleric if you want. Once you hit level 5, you are gonna want to cast Spikes on your Club. This turns it into a massive +2 weapon that does an addional +CL damage. It lasts HOURS per level. Thats a big hitter. Law Devotion is amazing too, since the bonus you get from it can be converted nearly completely through Power Attack into shear damage. Ordained Champ2 get you Smite. Thats not Smite Evil, Smite Good, or even Smite Bread. Its just Smite. It costs a TU attempt, but you weren't really planning on using those for anything else (other than additional uses of Law Devotion!). Awesome Smite is freakin amazing. It knocks foes down, allows you to bypass ANY DR, and allows you to overcome concealment (EVEN INVISIBILITY if you can pinpoint their square). You don't miss when your god guides your hand. Holy Warrior is another great feat. It gives you +x damage, where x is the highest level War domain spell you have prepped. When you take it, it's +4 damage per hit so long as you don't cast that highest level spell. Soon it'll grow to +5 and +6 and eventually +9. Thats GREAT!

I'd eventually look into taking Extra Turning, possibly as your level 12 feat. +4 turns gives you 4 extra smites per day. Extra Smiting only gives you 2. Thats a feat well spent. That, or it gives you 1 extra Law Devotion use AND 1 extra Smite. Also good.

The other thing this build gives you, is it pulls you away from DMM. DMM is a VERY intense sink in TU uses. That and its either horribly overpowered (Persist), or rather lackluster (Quicken). Either way, you now have a lot of other fun things to sink those TU attempts into, like Law Devotion and Smite attacks. Plus, for most of your career, you'll be at nearly full BAB, so persisting the usual Divine Power doesn't net you much, and you'll eventually be able to cast it as a swift action anyway (OC4 Quickens all your War domain spells). Get a couple Pearl of Power4s (craft them, or have an ally craft them) late game and you'll have more oomph than DMM Quicken without all the bulky feats.

Hope this helps!

golfmade
2009-06-20, 04:13 AM
For JonestheSpy

Coming in late here, but it really sounds to me like the ideal deity for Golfmade's character is the Grewhawk deity Trithereon, the chaotic good god of Individuality, Liberty, Self-Defense, and Retribution. Lots and lots of reasons for a priest of said deity to go smacking out evil, with a decidedly chaotic flavor.

Details here: http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=882
Sounds like an interesting deity but I've pretty much made up my mind that I want to play a lawful neutral character, thanks for the information though I'll perhaps use this deity with another character down the line.

For Keld

Ok, this is what I'd do if I were you:

St. Cuthbert's favored weapon is traditionally a Club (the Cudgel of St. Cuthbert). Other sects venerate the Mace. I'd see if you can swing a Great Club, as it'll get the maximal benefits of what you want to do!

Human Cleric (Strength, Destruction)
1 Cleric1 Power Attack, Law Devotion (Complete Champ)
2 Cleric2
3 Cleric3 Weapon Focus (Greatclub)
4 Cleric4
5 OrdChamp1 (War Domain)
6 OrdChamp2 AWESOME SMITE! (Complete Champ)
7 OrdChamp3
8 OrdChamp4
9 OrdChamp5 Holy Warrior (Complete Champ)

from there, you can do whatever. Go back to Cleric if you want. Once you hit level 5, you are gonna want to cast Spikes on your Club. This turns it into a massive +2 weapon that does an addional +CL damage. It lasts HOURS per level. Thats a big hitter. Law Devotion is amazing too, since the bonus you get from it can be converted nearly completely through Power Attack into shear damage. Ordained Champ2 get you Smite. Thats not Smite Evil, Smite Good, or even Smite Bread. Its just Smite. It costs a TU attempt, but you weren't really planning on using those for anything else (other than additional uses of Law Devotion!). Awesome Smite is freakin amazing. It knocks foes down, allows you to bypass ANY DR, and allows you to overcome concealment (EVEN INVISIBILITY if you can pinpoint their square). You don't miss when your god guides your hand. Holy Warrior is another great feat. It gives you +x damage, where x is the highest level War domain spell you have prepped. When you take it, it's +4 damage per hit so long as you don't cast that highest level spell. Soon it'll grow to +5 and +6 and eventually +9. Thats GREAT!

I'd eventually look into taking Extra Turning, possibly as your level 12 feat. +4 turns gives you 4 extra smites per day. Extra Smiting only gives you 2. Thats a feat well spent. That, or it gives you 1 extra Law Devotion use AND 1 extra Smite. Also good.

The other thing this build gives you, is it pulls you away from DMM. DMM is a VERY intense sink in TU uses. That and its either horribly overpowered (Persist), or rather lackluster (Quicken). Either way, you now have a lot of other fun things to sink those TU attempts into, like Law Devotion and Smite attacks. Plus, for most of your career, you'll be at nearly full BAB, so persisting the usual Divine Power doesn't net you much, and you'll eventually be able to cast it as a swift action anyway (OC4 Quickens all your War domain spells). Get a couple Pearl of Power4s (craft them, or have an ally craft them) late game and you'll have more oomph than DMM Quicken without all the bulky feats.

Hope this helps!

I'll have to check about the great club because I was planning on using a mace and shield.

And just a reminder I am playing a Tiefling so the level and feat progression should be a bit different since I don't get that extra feat first level (although my DM hinted he would allow us to perhaps take an extra feat at first level if we can work it into the character's back story) but even then it would be a bit different progression from a human.

As you have it listed though it seems like a nice progression of feats and is tied to what I want to do, kick ass and take names.

Also I have definitely decided to take the destruction domain but I'm still considering a few other domains for my second choice.

Also what you mention about taking extra turning is something I've thought of, so that as you mentioned I can use them to do extra smites or such since for the most part I won't be using TU in and of itself.

Pardon my ignorance but does DMM stand for devine meta magic?

I actually need to rush and meet some friends for dinner but I really thank you for all this information, as it stands I was looking at a feat progression using devine meta magic and other meta magic spell feats but by the looks of the layout you provided it would make more sense and also get me more bang for the buck so to speak to follow this path.

When I get back from dinner I should have more time to look through more thoroughly, thanks a bunch.

Coidzor
2009-06-20, 04:26 AM
With just the two of you... Spontaneous healing is probably not something that you wanna give up... As you're going to be using a lot more healing consumables and spells since there's less meat to soak up the damage...

Now if you get some other players you can instead just rely on something like a wand between fights...

Also, yes. DMM = Divine Meta Magic.