[4E] Irish Campaign brainstorming

[AstralFire]

Heyyo. Getting ready to run an Irish mythology inspired campaign, because I often enjoy taking the Fair Folk seriously. I already have a hook and a general metaplot laid out, but I would be very grateful for ideas of things I could throw in since I don't actually know very much about Irish mythos. What I could use some help with is ideas for hooks and puzzles and locations. I only formed this idea while in a sleep-deprived fumble last night, and we play tomorrow, so I'm rather behind my usual 'two weeks of prep time' schedule.

The world is not actually Ireland, just takes influence from it, much the way Prydain is influenced by Wales and Avatar by the Orient.

I'm having Eladrin roughly play the bit of the Unseelie while Gnomes and Elves (portrayed as renegade Eladrin of families who were long ago disfavored by the Unseelie Courts) take that of the Seelie. Humans are sort of in a Celtic Barbarian state at this point, but I also don't know very much about that either; I want them to be the rough equivalent of dwelling in mud shacks, though. I just don't know much about the types of philosophies and religions and garb of the celts, other than this vague idea that it's centered about druids.

At the moment, I have allowed no other races, though I'm open to thoughts about how to fit the rest in (except for Dragonborn; I don't like then.) For materials, I'm running solely out of PHB 1/2, DMG and MM. I'm also looking into what monsters I can use without breaking the feel of the campaign (no dragons, no beholders, no illithids for example) or perhaps borrow the stats from some existing ones to match famous creatures in Irish mythology; so far all I've really found are goblinoids, giants and lake monsters. @_@

[kieza]

Is the entire world based on Irish myth, or are there parts of it based on, say, Norse or Greek legends? If the latter, you could have lots of fun later in the campaign with visitors that have the heads of bulls or short stocky men with beards.

[Prime32]

Here's some of the stuff I remember:


Bards/Storytellers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seancha%C3%AD) have a special position in society similar to the druids, being fellow members of the Aois Dána (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aois-d%C3%A0na) - any chieftain should welcome a bard, and must be sure to treat him well, for a bard can ruin a chieftain's reputation. Poems were written in highly formalised ways (the third line has to rhyme with the 17th line) so these bards were highly educated. Writing plays little role in Irish culture - the majority of laws and stories were maintained orally.

Speaking of chieftains, they don't technically own their clan's land like in the feudal system. When the British invaded, they had to convince them to change that before they could take anything over.

Cattle are one of the great symbols of wealth (both quantity and quality are considered).

Hounds are highly respected, and some mythical ones were capable of speech.

The barbarians are epic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BAchulainn), and the magic weapons are flashy (eg. the Spear of Lugh, which so thirsted for blood that it needed to be kept in the ever-full Cauldron of Dagda when not in use.)

In battle there was a lot of calling out the enemy's champions for individual combat, and arguments over who was the greater warrior. Chariots were used, but mainly as a means to get to and from the battle.

Some people lived in "wattle and daub" huts, but there were stone forts as well, and proper castles towards the end.


Small, round hills are regarded as "fairy hills", portals between this world and the Other World (some of them were actually old passage tombs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passage_grave)). They were to be avoided, especially on the night of Samhain (Halloween) where the barrier between worlds was at its thinnest. On this night, they would make lanterns of their enemies heads to scare of wandering spirits (which led to the tradition of pumpkin-carving). Rings of mushrooms also invoke superstition.

The Other World was known by many names (including Tír na nÓg). Some said that dying in one world would result in you reincarnating in the other.

Leprechauns are wily creatures, and very rare. They have the power to disappear, but if someone manages to catch them they are under a geas to grant one request. One story goes of a man who ordered a leprechaun to guide him to his pot of gold. The leprechaun led him to a field and said that it was shrunk down and buried under a flower. The man had the leprechaun tie a ribbon around the flower so he could dig it up tomorrow and ordered him not to move the gold until then, before setting him free. When he came back the next day, every flower in the field had a ribbon tied around it.

[FoE]

Suggestion #1: Redcaps. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcap) Basically thuggish fairies resembling goblins who needed to dye their hats in blood every so often or else they simply died. Extremely fast despite the fact they wore iron shoes. It's an ideal low-level encounter; either the party is exploring a ruined castle where a redcap(s) make its (their) home, or they simply get assaulted by redcaps.

Either re-flavouring quicklings or dark creepers (or whatever those things from the Shadowfell are called, I don't have my MM in front of me) would work.

Suggestion #2: Banshees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banshee), of course! Basically the portents of death, showing up to howl and wail when someone is about to die; you could fashion a plot hook out of a man who hires the party to protect him after his house gets surrounded by banshees. Or you could just re-flavour them into a malevolent spirit who uses a deathly wail as a weapon and tries to lure them to their doom.

No suggestions for what to adapt.

Suggestion #3: Tommy Rawhead/Bloody Bones. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcap) Not a fairy, but I read a comic — Courtney Crumrin and the Night Things — where he was re-worked into one. There, he was used an assassin. Basically a giant rotting skeleton that eats children and can fit into very wee places. Good paranoia fuel.

I got no suggestion for adapting an existing creature outside of a Zombie Hulk or maybe a Death Giant if your campaign is high-level.

[Prime32]

course! Basically the portents of death, showing up to howl and wail when someone is about to die; you could fashion a plot hook out of a man who hires the party to protect him after his house gets surrounded by banshees. Or you could just re-flavour them into a malevolent spirit who uses a deathly wail as a weapon and tries to lure them to their doom.Banshees were not evil - they were just spirits who preemptively mourned the dead. Many of them were associated with particular families or their lands.



Also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nobility
There were a number of regional kings, ruled over by the High King (Ard Rí)

Heck, there's a lot of stuff on Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bard

[FoE]

Banshees were not evil - they were just spirits who preemptively mourned the dead. Many of them were associated with particular families or their lands.

Hence the term "re-flavour".

[LoopyZebra]

As a preface, I'm not versed in Celtic mythology, so take anything I say with a grain of salt as regards your setting.

You could have groups from other places in Europe in the setting, depending on the feel you were going for. This would give you the room for other races. With some reflavoring, Dwarves could take the role of Vikings, for example, since Dwarves have a love of drinking, gold, and fighting, which are very Viking loves. Goliaths or Orcs/Half-Orcs could also fill in.

Deva could be touched by/cursed by/part Fey, causing their memory loss and (possibly) multiple lives. You'd have to get rid of the angel soul, but personally I never liked that part anyways. I'd also change what they look like - bright purple seems to stand out. Perhaps they look normal or have more Feyish markings?

Depending on the political organization, you could have plots revolving around the politics of the clans/kingdoms - royal marriages, alliances, and so forth. This could get really interesting if the Fey courts began interfering in the affairs of the human courts - either indirectly, such as working magic on a royal or causing some mischief, or directly, where they intentionally do such things for the pursuit of their own goals. Fey courts could also be involved in diplomacy with human courts, possibly at a distance.

Additionally, I think dragons would fit. You may or may not want to ignore the color differences for this campaign. That's just my two cents though.

[AstralFire]

Can you tell me more about this Other World? I always thought Tirnanog was more of an Elysium.

Actually, isn't there a plane of fey in the 3E's Manual? I need to find mine and see what I can dig up there.

[Coidzor]

Not mud, cut sod and dirt, probably.

Ooo! and special cedar boxes generally available for the preservation of especially nice severed heads of enemies that have been taken as trophies. :smallbiggrin: Seriously though, amongst the humans, the taking of heads of worthy enemies would be srs business.

I've always been curious as to what it might look like if DnD had more of a celtic influence (I've always considered elves to be fey inside my head)...

The Dark Elves are going to be nonexistent, I take it? I believe there were some distinctions made between "Dark" elves and "Fair" ones, even if it was more that they were like two different kin-groups (darker hair versus lighter hair) rather than having two-tone racial dichotomies.

Have you read the Cattle Raid of Cooley (http://adminstaff.vassar.edu/sttaylor/Cooley/)(sp)? That's a pretty good introduction to political wrangling/warfare and heroism.

[Prime32]

Can you tell me more about this Other World? I always thought Tirnanog was more of an Elysium.Given the whole "oral tradition" thing, there's a lot of different versions. It doesn't help that they were first written down by early Christian monks, who were trying to exorcise old beliefs or incorporate them into Christianity (the Tuatha Dé Danann appear to have been reduced from gods to ancestors).

Just read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_World, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classifications_of_fairies

[AstralFire]

I'm playing up the Elvish as capricious, so Drow just seemed kind of redundant. As it is, I have one more elf race than I wanted; one player absolutely wanted to be a nice elf, so I put the Wood Elves back in. :P

[Coidzor]

Given the whole "oral tradition" thing, there's a lot of different versions. It doesn't help that they were first written down by early Christian monks, who were trying to exorcise old beliefs or incorporate them into Christianity (the Tuatha Dé Danann appear to have been reduced from gods to ancestors).

Just read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_World, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classifications_of_fairies

Ahh, but that would be something the faerie would encourage... Confusion and differing opinions and ignorance of the truth would serve to amuse the Fey after all...

Well, there's capricious and then there's outright cruel and brooding.

The capricious ones you don't want noticing you because they'll mess with you and their idea of messing with you/fun is... sick...

The cruel ones you really don't want noticing you due to the fact that they're no longer even really amused by toying with mortals so much as... ripping them apart if they get uppity enough to distract them from their unknowable affairs.

The fey are going to have a lot of... power of plot/drama powers offcamera, and one can never be sure when they're just outright bald-faced lying... Actually, that goes for most of the classed NPCs they'll encounter.... and each other....

So every character is probably going to have Bluff and Sense Motive as class skills....:smallwink:

I believe there were a few references to dragons but they were rarer... Probably could reflavor them with a bit of mechanics tweaking into being the sea and lake monsters.... I mean, Blacks already are...

Is the world more... Islandy or Continental?

[RTGoodman]

Can you tell me more about this Other World?

Well, I actually did a 12- or 15-page paper on the Other World is medieval mythology and folklore to present at a conference earlier this year, but I don't know if you really need anything that in depth. :smalltongue:


One thing you could check out, if not for the crunch, is a d20-based campaign setting called "Sláinte - The Game of Celtic Mythology" or something like that. It even has a supplement called "Tir na nOg" all about the Other World. I can't seem to find it online, but I've seen it several times at my local used books store.

[TricksyAndFalse]

Suggestion #1: Redcaps. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcap) Basically thuggish fairies resembling goblins who needed to dye their hats in blood every so often or else they simply died. Extremely fast despite the fact they wore iron shoes. It's an ideal low-level encounter; either the party is exploring a ruined castle where a redcap(s) make its (their) home, or they simply get assaulted by redcaps.

Either re-flavouring quicklings or dark creepers (or whatever those things from the Shadowfell are called, I don't have my MM in front of me) would work.

The spriggans from 4E's MM2 are meant to be the same things as redcaps. They have the iron shoes, the blood-soaked hats, and the word 'redcap' in the names of their powers. If the OP hasn't picked up the MM2 already (and doesn't have a DDI subscription), I think it's a must-have for this sort of campaign. It adds 43 creatures with the fey keyword, including sprites, more eladrin, more gnomes, spriggans (redcaps), will-o-wisps, firbolgs, more fomorians, and lingering ghosts.

[FoE]

The spriggans from 4E's MM2 are meant to be the same things as redcaps. They have the iron shoes, the blood-soaked hats, and the word 'redcap' in the names of their powers. If the OP hasn't picked up the MM2 already (and doesn't have a DDI subscription), I think it's a must-have for this sort of campaign. It adds 43 creatures with the fey keyword, including sprites, more eladrin, more gnomes, spriggans (redcaps), will-o-wisps, firbolgs, more fomorians, and lingering ghosts.

Ah. I have not yet purchased the MM2 yet.

[TricksyAndFalse]

Ah. I have not yet purchased the MM2 yet.

Your idea of reflavoring the Dark Ones is a good one too.

[AstralFire]

Oof. I neither have the MM2, nor do I have the cash to spend on it. I may just homebrew some substitutes using gnomes and goblins as a basis. Maybe Face of Evil can help with that? :) And I'm currently boycotting the Local 'Friendly' Comic Book store, so I'll have to pass on hopes of finding that obscure d20 supplement even if I did have the money. >.<

The world I am thinking is more continental, with an Ireland continent and a Wales continent, the Wales one being more middle-ages and renaissance.

RTG, I'd love to see the full paper. I can glean what I need and it's likely to prove a very interesting read anyway. :)

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions by the way, guys. <3 I'd post more copiously, but I'm just flitting between chores right now.

[kc0bbq]

Oof. I neither have the MM2, nor do I have the cash to spend on it. I may just homebrew some substitutes using gnomes and goblins as a basis.
I'd recommend spending 10 minutes at a bookstore reading the feywild section of the 4e Manual of the Planes if you don't have any other access to a copy. It's 90% of what you're going to want, fluffed out enough for a framework to be customized to your needs all contained in just a few pages. Some of the bits and pieces triggered some creative inspiration in me. I really like the treatment, but I had already developed something really close for my 3.5e world and somehow 4e managed to fit what I had been working on a boatload better. My halflings are Celtic based, I did it tongue in cheek and it's turned out really fun. Now I just need to wait for my fresh 1st level players to reach a point where they start travelling the world.

MoP sets up, in a basic fashion, the Fomorians (generally unseelie), Firbolg (generally unseelie, but not always), Eladrin ready have their name changed to fit the Tuatha De Danann (generally seelie). The Fomorians have been dropped into the feywild equivalent of the Underdark, which is only sort of like the Underdark, really. Gnomes are small enough and clever enough to avoid the politics. It wouldn't take too much to refluff it more authentic as opposed to the generic base it provides.

Beyond that, it really is just a matter of reading up on the Danann you want to add at a given point on wikipedia. A lot of care seems to have been given to the Celtic and Gaelic mythology there. Just go to the "Irish Mythology" page, it'll be a good start. It is a bit academic with information on who each group probably represents in the real world, but you can skip those parts.

[FoE]

Oof. I neither have the MM2, nor do I have the cash to spend on it. I may just homebrew some substitutes using gnomes and goblins as a basis. Maybe Face of Evil can help with that? :)

I'm a little busy at the moment (and yet still posting on the Internet for some reason), but maybe I'll homebrew something tomorrow. Haven't homebrewed a lot of monsters, so this'll give me some experience.

EDIT: Don't have the MM2, but I did find an image online of the MM2 Spriggan.

http://wizards.com/dnd/images/Monster2_gallery/133.jpg

Awww, they're adorable! :smallbiggrin:

I like the art on the Shadowmoor card "Murderous Redcap" a bit more, I think. (Spoilered for size.)

http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs27/f/2008/148/b/c/Murderous_Redcap_by_DaveAllsop.jpg

No iron shoes, though. Gotta have iron shoes.

[AstralFire]

I'm going to spend some time in a bit compiling my thoughts for this on the homebrew board. Someone showed me the text for the Feywild from 4E Manual of the Planes, looks pretty cool and that is definitely going to become a major part of this campaign setting; I'd just like to get the reading on the Other World so I can have some ideas of how to expand it even more.

Currently thinking that there is a primary continent in the North that shares Irish and Welsh on different sides of the landmass, with the Welsh being humans who have militarized sufficiently to form a united land and regulate some of the power of the Fey there.

Inhabitant Races: Humans, Eladrin, Elves, Gnomes

And far to the south across the mirror sea, another larger continent that's Arabian based - primary residents being highly advanced half-orcs, with some djinn walking the land in the forms of deva.

Inhabitant Races: Half-orcs, Devas.

Currently working on a joint cosmology to explain the existence of both deva and fey. Intentionally restricting races so people emphasize more on fleshing out a spectrum of a race rather than stereotype and countertype.

[Gnorman]

This is basically a shameless plug, but I developed a homebrew world based on mythic Ireland. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113151)

Granted, it's 3.5 and most of the crunch won't apply, but I went down the same route LoopyZebra suggested with Dwarves (Vikings!), and the fluff might lend you a few ideas here or there.

Keep in mind that it's kind of nation-states with a good amount of Norse background thrown in (Ireland, after all, was invaded constantly), but the folklore and fey aspects are still strong. Fey and humanoids dominate, and things like trolls, goblins, and ogres aren't just monsters (though they certainly could be), they're citizens and soldiers.

[AstralFire]

Thanks Gnormy, taking a look now. Started writing this before I saw your post.

For cosmology/origins - thinking right now that the:

- Half-orcs (or Aurkali) were an indigenous local race.

- The Feywild was somehow anchored to this world (needs a name still) and the Eladrin invaded, taking over the land, massacring the Aurkali. Some small Aurkali flee in boats to an uninhabited southern continent; the fey don't learn of this.

- Humans arrive from a distant Eastern isle (another planar eclipse). Humans settle and the Eladrin strike; humans kick the Eladrin around on even footing.

- Feywild drifts closer to the world; the gnomes pass in. Eladrin receive strong reinforcements, almost entirely annihilate the humans in the West and destroys most of the Eastern strongholds. Eastern humans manage to hole up and hold the Unseelie at a small bottleneck fort surrounded by a lake: Caer Ludgate.

- Eladrin tromp around the crushed West, which becomes known as Nadir, the East becoming called Dyfed. Pretty much terrorize Nadir for a long time. Dyfed becomes insular, and both Nadir and Dyfed forget their origins.

- A bardic chieftain by the name of Amergin Glunmar rallies the tattered tribes of Nadir, gaining some respect from some of the more honorable Eladrin who have lived upon the land, who become Elves - Elves and Gnomes together form the Seelie courts, branding the Eladrin as Unseelie. Seelie still don't really respect humans as a whole, but they kind of like them. Treat them as pets, almost. Nadir and Dyfed do not get along; the latter is disgusted at the former's fall. (Some Eladrin can be Seelie and some Elves and Gnomes can be Unseelie; these are just the broad categorizations.)

- The Aurkali at their new location to the south have adapted to their harsh desert conditions, rising to become masters of the desert world, and forever swearing revenge against the Eladrin as well as seeking to help the humans. Occasional fey who have drifted southward are captured by Aurkali sorcerers and priests, who strip them of their immortal bodies, tying their soul into the cycle of mortal life as punishment - they are never to know the final westward journey, but only the humility of life. These are known as Djinn or Deva, and though they are required to serve the Aurkali from birth, one who has proven their worthiness is set free to do as they will.

[AstralFire]

Thoughts? Comments?

[Coidzor]

Hmm... Maybe make it more that the western side that fell devolved into raiding more and more other humans and so the easterners had to deal with those sorts of incursions as well as mess around with the fey rather than a feud over one half of the island collapsing due to fey aggression.

The original humans that came to ireland in their mythology were the sons of Miles, I believe, and so the faerie/mythos referred to them as milesians from time to time. So perhaps something similar happened where the humans that settled each area of the continent/isle were of a similar kin-group and they naturally had rivalries and competition, though cooperated whenever the fey started making any kind of major ruckus.