View Full Version : Combining Craft/Knowledge/Perform/Profession [SWSE and analogs]

2009-06-15, 09:38 PM
I've implemented a Saga-style skill system a while back for d20 WoD (see sig). Now with everything boiled down a bit more sanely than (IIRC) 30+ skills and some mumbo-jumbo called 'character foci'... I've got 18 skills now, in roughly the same ratio by patron ability (Str, Con, etc.) as it was originally.

I think Saga's system works well for the d20 WoD game because ability modifiers play a much larger roll in determining the outcome of events. (1d20 + ability modifier + 1/2 HD + 5 if Trained + 5 if Skill Focus + any misc modifiers) Something to factor in is that a PCs HD is equal to 3 + their character level (which apparently makes them ECL 4 compared to DnD characters, right out of the box).

While the game I'm specifically tailoring this for is not SWSE exactly, it carries with it the same principles. Even someone with a DnD insight could help me out here.

The question I pose is this: The use of Craft and Knowledge seem to facilitate one another in that, for the purpose of keeping it simple and with a limited number of trained skills, they could be combined. This could even extend to Profession and Performance, in many cases.

So Craft (Engineering) and Knowledge (Engineering) and Profession (Engineer) could all be done with the same skill. It also breaks down the Craft vs Profession fog. And if they can work in Performance (Engineering), they'd get it too. This would make it easier and more intuitive for a character to have had a career/focus before everything went all crazy.

If this makes the resulting combo-skill more powerful, so be it. At least it opens up RP options, creates lateral thinking for ways to apply these skills, and doesn't inherently lend itself to combat.


Another question is: How to handle languages. At first I said that you start with Int modifier number of languages (minimum 1) and could buy Int modifier more by taking Skill Training and Skill Focus.

This seems sound, but I wonder if I could apply this to Craft, Perform, Profession and Knowledge as well (such as a feat that grants training in Int or Wis number of skills; ex: I take the feat, and I pick Craft (Machines), Knowledge (Medieval Studies), and Perform (Jazz Flute)). Between Craft, Perform, Knowledge, and Profession, they all seem to have equal utility, though in d20 WoD Craft can cook up some nifty things and Knowledge is always nice to have.


So maybe out of this, I combine question 1 and 2 to get:

New Feat: Hobby (Skill Feat)
You've got odd interests!
Benefit: Pick three skills from among Craft, Profession, Knowledge, or Perform. You gain those skills as trained skills. You can trade in one or more chosen skills in this way to gain up to two languages from each skill (each language within a pair must be related via the same language group such as Romance languages).
Special: Instead of training a Major skill (any of the other skills not mentioned here) as normal, you can take this feat instead. This is especially applicable in character creation.

New Feat: Knack (Skill Feat)
You're odd interests are starting to pay off.
Benefit: Pick up to three skills from among Craft, Profession, Knowledge, or Perform that you have acquired with Hobby. You gain Skill Focus for them. If you choose less than three skills, you may use any left overs via Hobby once again.

So, Marvin the Maneater is a Werewolf with an Int modifier of 6! He picks up four Major skills (Perception, Initiative, Survival, and Athletics). He automatically gets six languages (English, French, Esperanto, Italian, American Sign Language, and ____). So for his last two skills he picks up Hobby twice. He gets six mini-points work of random odds and ends skills.

He grabs Craft (Chemical), Profession (Mime), Perform (Break Dancing), Perform (Jazz Flute), and Knowledge (Popular Culture). He trades in the sixth mini-point for Spanish and Portuguese (a pair of Romance languages).


My System So Far:

Saga Style Skill System for Monte Cook's World of Darkness

Making a Skill Check:
1d20 + HD + Ability Mod + 5 (if trained) + 5 (if Focus)

Skills no longer have synergies. By combining many skills, that's been covered.

Trained Skills:
Each race beings with a set amount of trained skills.

Awakened 6 + Int modifier
Gain a +2 ability bonus that can be changed at each level (Int does not give extra skill points)
Tempter 5 + Int modifier
Werewolf 4 + Int modifier
Scourge 3 + Int modifier
Vampire 3 + Int modifier
Mage 2 + Int modifier

The minimum number of skills possible, with an Int penalty, is zero. Temporary penalties to Intelligence do not decrease the number of skills you are trained in. If an Int bonus would not originally have increased the number of skills you had, it will continue to not do so.

Awakened also gain a +2 bonus to any one ability score, which they can change at each level. A bonus to Int does not increase their number of skills from this bonus. This works as a 1st level class ability called 'Ability Focus'.

All characters lose the use of character focuses that were originally used to determine how skills are gained.

Skill Groups:
Acrobatics (Dex): Escape Artist, Tumble, Balance
Athletics (Str): Climb, Jump, Swim
Computer Use (Int)
Concentration (Con)
Deception (Cha): Bluff, Disguise
Handle Animal (Cha)
Initiative (Dex)
Investigation (Int): Research, Gather Information
Linguistics (Int):
Start with Int modifier languages, minimum 1
Training and Skill Focus each add Int modifier languages (max of 3 * Int modifier in the end)
Mechanics (Int): Disable Device, Repair, Demolitions
Perception (Wis): Listen, Search, Spot
Scrutiny (Int): Appraise, Forgery, Sense Motive
Social (Cha): Diplomacy, Intimidate
Spellcraft (Int)
Stealth (Dex): Hide, Move Silently
Survival (Wis): Navigate, Survival, Heal
Theft (Dex): Sleight of Hand, Open Lock, Use Rope
Transport (Dex): Drive, Pilot, Ride

A la carte:
Craft (Int): Chemical, Electronic, Mechanical, Pharmaceutical, Structural, Visual Art, Writing

Knowledge (Int): Art, Behavioral, Business, Civics, Current Events, Earth and Life Sciences, History, Occult, Physical Science, Popular Culture, Streetwise, Tactics, Technology, Theology and Philosophy

Profession (Wis)

Perform (Cha): Act, Comedy, Dance, Keyboard, Oratory, Percussion, String instrument, Wind instrument, Sing

New Feats:
Skill Training
Benefit: You gain a new trained skill as if your class's base skill points were one higher.

Skill Focus
Prereq: Trained in that skill
Benefit: You gain a +5 bonus to that skill. You may take this multiple times but choose a different skill.