Confused about the gate's destruction

[ken-do-nim]

I thought the gate that held the Snarl back was vital to protecting the universe from the Snarl. Isn't it a matter of time before the Snarl engulfs Azure city? Are there not two gates that have now been destroyed? Is not the whole world in peril?

[Sanguine]

The general consensus seems to be that the gates that are still intact prevent the Snarl from recognizing the rifts.

[Askenada]

I think the point is the snarl can't actually escape until all 5 gates have been destroyed. Breaking each just weakens it.

[ken-do-nim]

You have to wonder who is powerful enough in the OOTS world to remake the 2 broken gates after Xykon is defeated.

[holywhippet]

Redcloaks guessed that the other rift gates might be stopping the Snarl from noticing that rifts have been opened. Or it could be that something about the Snarl has changed since the gates were built.

[Hexen_Hase]

One has to consider that the rifts already existed back in the Scribble's day - sure, they're getting bigger, and the logical assumption to make after all gates are destroyed would be that the Snarl would be released and wreck the world again, but considering that the whole thing is a "slowly weakening barrier", there's a chance that even if every gate were destroyed that wouldn't necessarily mean that the Snarl would immediately escape its prison.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Except for, you know...laws of drama. It would be really anticlimatic for the Order to arrive seconds too late to stop the last gate from being destroyed only to have nothing happen.

[Mystic Muse]

Except for, you know...laws of drama. It would be really anticlimatic for the Order to arrive seconds too late to stop the last gate from being destroyed only to have nothing happen.

the laws of funny are superior:smalltongue: look at 663 if you don't believe me.:smallwink:

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Wait wait wait.

Woah.

Crazy thought here: by now, isn't there a giant rift in the fabric of the universe right above where Dorukan's castle and dungeon used to be?

And in the one forest?

[Zerg Cookie]

Wait wait wait.

Woah.

Crazy thought here: by now, isn't there a giant rift in the fabric of the universe right above where Dorukan's castle and dungeon used to be?

And in the one forest?

Not necessarily
These two gates didn't explode, and it's possible that the explosion gave the rift a running start to grow.

And if someone is going to say "Dorukan's gate exploded", save it, it didn't, the castle exploded and the gate was destroyed by the explosion

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Not necessarily
These two gates didn't explode, and it's possible that the explosion gave the rift a running start to grow.

And if someone is going to say "Dorukan's gate exploded", save it, it didn't, the castle exploded and the gate was destroyed by the explosion

Well, we don't know that Dorukan's gate DIDN'T explode. It would have happened during the first explosion, and therefore would not have been noticed.

If a single katana stroke could break open the Azure gate and make a rift THAT big,

...what could an explosion do?:smalleek:

[Foryn Gilnith]

Nothing, because Dorukan gave his gate Fire Immunity; whereas Soon did not give his gate DR 30/adamantine or something similar.

[Morquard]

It could be that the rifts only grow to a certain size.
Redcloak mentions that its grow-rate has considerably slowed and is expected to come ot a halt soon.
Azure was the smallest of all rifts, and it was locked for 60 years or so, and now had to catch up in a couple of weeks/months.
The other gates were alot bigger already, assuming their max size is about the same... yeah they would grow a bit but not that much.

[Zerg Cookie]

Nothing, because Dorukan gave his gate Fire Immunity; whereas Soon did not give his gate DR 30/adamantine or something similar.

That's why you don't let a paladin do a wizard's job!

[SPoD]

Crazy thought here: by now, isn't there a giant rift in the fabric of the universe right above where Dorukan's castle and dungeon used to be?

Not above, below. Many hundreds or thousands of feet below the surface, covered with the debris of dozens of dungeon levels. Because the Gate was on the bottom level of Dorukan's extensive dungeon complex.

[Zevox]

Note: The Azure City Rift is most probably not growing anymore. In this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0544.html) we had Redcloak tell us that its growth rate had slowed considerably, and he had calculated it would likely only grow another 100 feet or so before stopping.

So no, it should not get large enough to engulf the city. And as long as some of the rifts remain sealed, the Snarl shouldn't be able to escape. And since apparently something is preventing it from noticing the three rifts that are open, that means the rifts are not imminent threats to anything except creatures or things that get thrown into them (or stupidly enter of their own volition, I suppose).

Zevox

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, we don't know that Dorukan's gate DIDN'T explode. It would have happened during the first explosion, and therefore would not have been noticed.

If a single katana stroke could break open the Azure gate and make a rift THAT big,

...what could an explosion do?:smalleek:

I suspect that because Dorukan's Gate was destroyed by a mechanism he himself designed, he made sure to minimize the damage to the rift any such destruction would incur. No such protection existed for Soon's Gate, and it was destroyed in a traumatic way. I also suspect that it would not have grown so large and so fast if there had never been a gate in the first place.

It's like a slightly unstable cave. Left to its own devices, more and more rocks would fall down until eventually it collapses. If you put some supports in, you can allow the cave to survive indefinately. However, removing the supports suddenly increases the strain on the cave, and this causes a faster collapse than would have happened in our control cave.

[Moriarty]

also don't forget that the gates are actually the second layer of sealing the rifts.

In their adventures, the order of the scribbles used epic magic to seal the rifts without the gates, the gates were constructed some time later to prevent the rifts from ever growing again

[Morquard]

also don't forget that the gates are actually the second layer of sealing the rifts.

In their adventures, the order of the scribbles used epic magic to seal the rifts without the gates, the gates were constructed some time later to prevent the rifts from ever growing again
Wow, good catch, I completely missed that. I thought the gates were the seals, but you're right, it seems they sealed the rifts, and the gates are to prevent it from growing.
So maybe the snarl never reaches outside because the seals itself are still in place, but the rift can grow.

Its here btw: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html
"... they did develop means to seal them up"
and later
"With the rifts sealed, Lirian and Dorukan began intense magical research into a way to "lock" them up. In time they developed a design for a mystic gate [..] As long as the gates stood strong the rifts would never grow".

So yes, the seals were there before the gate. Destroying the gates might not even touch or hurt the seals.

[Snails]

I thought the gate that held the Snarl back was vital to protecting the universe from the Snarl. Isn't it a matter of time before the Snarl engulfs Azure city?

Yes and no. Based on Redcloak's comment and what we already know of the Snarl, no one would have been surprised if the Snarl ate all of Azure City.

So there is presumably some unknown factor about the Snarl in play here. There is lots of speculation and little hard fact. Even the Twelve Gods probably have no idea.

My personal guess is that the Snarl has changed in some fashion.

The Snarl was the karmic result of unfettered rivalry amongst the gods. Now that the gods have settle down to a cooperative and polite rivalry, the Snarl may change to that tune, to some degree. Maybe.


Are there not two gates that have now been destroyed? Is not the whole world in peril?

Yes, the first gate has been destroyed. Whether there is some world eating rift is unknown. Maybe. Maybe not. The first gate was destroyed by a controlled explosion, created by the magic of an epic level spellcaster who created the gate in the first place. It might safe enough.

As for your last question, it is feared that, if unrepaired, the rift over Azure City could eventually be world destroying. But no one knows for sure.

Keep in mind that an Epic level party, often referred to as the Order of the Scribble, found that the Snarl's left pinky toe was "more than a level appropriate encounter" (a very tough fight, in non-D&D speak), given that a very brave dwarf died in the effort. If the Snarl were to actively defend the giant rift in the sky, it would presumably be impossible to repair by mortal effort.

[Elderac]

Actually 3 gates have been destroyed. Redcloak and Xykon managed to destroy Lirian's Gate.

[Bibliomancer]

Even though it's sealed, the Snarl still gets a frighteningly large window right above Azure City. Plus, the original seal might have had an area size limit, meaning that pretty soon there will be gaps that will allow the snarl to get a few chin-hairs around the seal.

[Zevox]

Actually 3 gates have been destroyed. Redcloak and Xykon managed to destroy Lirian's Gate.
You don't actually need to spoiler that, you know. It has been mentioned (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html) in the main comic.

Zevox

[evileeyore]

Actually 3 gates have been destroyed. Redcloak and Xykon managed to destroy Lirian's Gate.

Elderac is right. More than two gates have been destroyed, except you don't have to spoiler it. It's right here in the comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html).

[Optimystik]

You don't actually need to spoiler that, you know. It has been mentioned (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html) in the main comic.

Zevox

Now that you link that comic, I wonder... was a young O-Chul one of the paladins sent to check Lirian's Gate?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

So yes, the seals were there before the gate. Destroying the gates might not even touch or hurt the seals.
I doubt Dorukan would have built a self-destruct mechanism into his gate if destroying the gate also destroyed the seal. I'm quite certain the seal on his gate at least is intact. The lack of snarl-tentacles reaching out of the Azure City rift suggest the seal there is likely intact as well. And we have no data on Lirian's Gate.

[Elderac]

You don't actually need to spoiler that, you know. It has been mentioned (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html) in the main comic.

Zevox

Oh, thanks. I couldn't remember and I was in a bit of a hurry so I couldn't research it, so I erred on the side of caution.

I also wanted to see if I had the command for the spoiler tag right.

Thanks again for the info.

[Red XIV]

You have to wonder who is powerful enough in the OOTS world to remake the 2 broken gates after Xykon is defeated.
Either V and Durkon will be powerful enough to do the job by the end of the story, or they'll destroy that soul bind gem of Xykon's and Resurrect Durokan and Lirian to do it for them.

[Ridureyu]

Or maybe the Snarl will no longer exist.

[Pogogoblin]

would there be some way to trap or destroy the snarl,
such as the "genie in the bottle" thing?

[doodthedud]

Now that you link that comic, I wonder... was a young O-Chul one of the paladins sent to check Lirian's Gate?

That's what I was wondering a few days ago.

[Callista]

You have to wonder who is powerful enough in the OOTS world to remake the 2 broken gates after Xykon is defeated.I'm guessing the OotS will be. They're leveling pretty darn fast.

[Dagren]

would there be some way to trap or destroy the snarl,
such as the "genie in the bottle" thing?I thought that was the point of the gates in the first place?

[Atelm]

I thought that was the point of the gates in the first place?

As mentioned earlier in this thread seals were placed on the rifts by the Order of the Scribble to trap the Snarl, and only later did they build the gates. But the gates were built to prevent the rifts from growing larger, while the Snarl had already been contained much earlier.

[Dagren]

As mentioned earlier in this thread seals were placed on the rifts by the Order of the Scribble to trap the Snarl, and only later did they build the gates. But the gates were built to prevent the rifts from growing larger, while the Snarl had already been contained much earlier.Would you have preferred I said seals instead? I can edit my last post if it offends you so badly.

[Faceist]

You have to wonder who is powerful enough in the OOTS world to remake the 2 broken gates after Xykon is defeated.
Hopefully by the climax of the story, the OOTS themselves will be epic level, which means Durkon and Vaarsuvius could conceivably recreate the Gates. As is mentioned in SoD,

Redcloak sarcastically comments that he and Xykon could remake Lirian's gate, "... if we spent a few months here and were both epic level".