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View Full Version : What is full BAB worth to a Swordsage (3.5)



Justin B.
2009-06-16, 01:41 PM
When tweaking classes, I find that many times I want to give a class full BAB.

For the sake of balance I always try to take something away from the class (unless it's really silly, like monk).

For instance, I'm looking at making a ninja right now, using a Swordsage, and I want the class to have full BAB, some of those Setting Sun manuevers will just be a waste of time if every single enemy has a higher attack roll than me.

What aspect of the Swordsage can I take away to make it "balanced" to give the class full BAB?

Some things I've considered:

Knocking D8 hitdie to D6.
Removing a good save (this hurts flavor though)
Reducing Manuevers known or Manuevers ready.
Banning a couple of schools that the Swordsage can choose manuevers from.

Any and all help appreciated.

Duke of URL
2009-06-16, 01:43 PM
I'd consider dropping the class abilities (blanking on the names at the moment edit: discipline focus) that given them the school-based bonuses.

Then, just give Adaptive Style as a bonus feat at 1st, since they're going to take it anyway, and it, along with full BAB should compensate for the lost abilities.

OMG PONIES
2009-06-16, 01:46 PM
I feel like the class features are great flavor-wise, since I always imagine the disciplines like different schools or techniques. I think dropping HD to a d6 would be a good start. However, I wouldn't want to take away anything else (skill points, class features) except maybe the high Will save.

Fishy
2009-06-16, 01:56 PM
Check out the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer), from SRD Unearthed Arcana.

Better hit die + better BAB + Better Proficiencies = 1 spell known of each level + 1 spell per day of each level.

I'd use that as a starting point, but someone better at ToB math than I would have to work out what that means.

woodenbandman
2009-06-16, 07:53 PM
I don't think the swordsage really needs full BAB. It has enough tricks for boosting attack rolls, such as discipline focus weapons.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-16, 08:09 PM
I wouldn't drop the HD to d6, they are more often then not supposed to be front line fighters so a d6 would make them fairly squishy...especially since they are pretty much stuck in light armor (or mithral)

Maybe if you want try something like a specialist wizard...pick one school as a specialized school and forgo 2 others. Then again maybe not...i typically see a SS specializing in one or two schools like that anyways even without the help.

On a similar note, you can always make use of the martial weapon magic enhancement. The one that adds +3 if you use a manuver of a specific school. Also, from the notes it works if you are in a stance from the school. So, just set it for the style of the stance you normally use, then boom, constant +3 to hit. Add a second style, say...setting sun if you want help with those manuvers and don't normally use a setting sun stance. That way your +1 shadow hand setting sun weapon will be +7 to hit +1 damage when you try a setting sun manuver while in island of blades stance....or whatever ya know. Note, while the option is +1 bonus to the weapon, it doesn't just yield the +3...if you know a manuver/stance from the school in question then you get +1 to hit.

Good times.

Salt_Crow
2009-06-16, 08:17 PM
Halve its number of readied manoeuvres, drop discipline focus and change its saves to Fort Good etc etc. Wait, hasn't it already been done? It's called Warblade! (or Crusader)!

I'd say full BAB is too great an addition to an already well-made class. I really like the flavour of the class (sacrificing a bit of melee capability and getting a wider range of manoeuvres and acting like a semi-spellcaster of some sort).

A few tweaks that I like to add with Swordsage would be using the arcane swordsage variant to add some wujen-like quality to them. Of course, only things like Control Weather and some illusion spells are allowed though :)

Chronos
2009-06-16, 08:36 PM
I actually like that the Swordsage has medium BAB. The feel is that they accomplish a similar end to a fighter, but using radically different methods. The fighter's skill at fighting is represented by his high BAB, while the swordsage's is represented by his maneuvers.

Mind you, this still leaves me disliking the other two ToB classes, but eh, what can you do?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-06-17, 04:36 AM
Aren't ninja supposed to be squishy? They're assassins or something (there are no ninja in Korea, so I don't know anything about them). Glass cannons, since you're only supposed to have a few select engagements where you hit hard and fast and leave. They don't need combat endurance so much.

AslanCross
2009-06-17, 04:42 AM
I don't think the Swordsage needs full BAB. It's got so many ways to guarantee hits that an extra couple of AB won't really matter. I wouldn't be willing to give up any of its class feature for full BAB.