How much does O-Chul know about the splice?

[Raenir Salazar]

Some people have raised the point that O-Chul may be suspisious of V's splicepowers, possibly if he heard the "damned to the lowerplanes" bit.

When he called for a learned scribe in the debriefing think how much of it is about the teleport and how much is about V's powers? Paladin's in theory cannot knowingly associate with evil, I am not sure how far or how anally this goes asusming he *thinks* V used evil/became evil regardless of whatever help V offered.

Possibilities?

[Spiky]

Jesus, everybody thinks O'Chul is an idiot or a liar.

What happened to the OC love in this forum?

[Raenir Salazar]

Jesus, everybody thinks O'Chul is an idiot or a liar.

What happened to the OC love in this forum?


I have accused him of neither, I am merely voicing a possibility. I still think hes so badass he willed MitD to gain Wish as a SLA.

[Bibliomancer]

I have accused him of neither, I am merely voicing a possibility. I still think hes so badass he willed MitD to gain Wish as a SLA.

Naturally.

I think he doesn't really care about V's powers, given how undefined they were and due to the fact that the spirits are gone.

It'll be interesting to see what his reaction is if the arch-fiends show up (ie how long it will take for him to break them and send them sobbing back to the planes located in the ventral position).

[Callista]

I think he may be suspicious. So may the Order of the Stick. But if he knew the full story--and he's not the kind to act before he does, if he can help it--I kind of doubt he'd get smite-happy. Somebody accepting a contract from the lower planes to save their family because they can't accept failure is not exactly unredeemable evil. It's more like "you need moral guidance" evil.

You have to remember that this is a paladin/fighter we're talking about, though. Look at the class skills. He might know his devils/demons/whatever (though not as well as a pure paladin), but I doubt he has too much of an in-depth education on arcane magic.

[Ridureyu]

I think O-Chul doesn't know what a lich is, so he's going to re-kill Roy.

[Almaseti]

Regardless of the nature of the powers, O-Chul knows V isn't evil. V came back to save him rather than run away to safety, and helped him in his last-ditch effort to destroy Xykon's phylactery. Anything O-Chul does or asks in regards to the splice will be out of concern for V, not mistrust.

[zillion ninjas]

What happened to the OC love in this forum?

Right over here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77064), friend. Or here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112131), depending on your tastes.

[Shpadoinkle]

I think the twelve gods would be willing to overlook this one incident due to extenuating circumstances.

[holywhippet]

I think the twelve gods would be willing to overlook this one incident due to extenuating circumstances.

I doubt V is a worshipper of the 12 gods, hence they would not be the one to judge V should death occur.

Paladins have detect evil as an at-will power, O-Chul could quickly determine if V is evil or not.

[Flickerdart]

I doubt V is a worshipper of the 12 gods, hence they would not be the one to judge V should death occur.

Paladins have detect evil as an at-will power, O-Chul could quickly determine if V is evil or not.
It's not always on, though. He wouldn't Detect unless he had a reason to, or perhaps by accident later on.

[Callista]

I think O-Chul doesn't know what a lich is, so he's going to re-kill Roy.Knowledge (Religion) is a class skill and O-Chul has sat in on umpteen briefings. He definitely knows what a lich is.

[Dagren]

I think O-Chul doesn't know what a lich is, so he's going to re-kill Roy.
Knowledge (Religion) is a class skill and O-Chul has sat in on umpteen briefings. He definitely knows what a lich is.Even if he had somehow failed to pick up on what a lich was despite having fought one and then spent 8 months as it's roommate, why would he want to kill Roy anyway? :confused:

[Kaytara]

Some people have raised the point that O-Chul may be suspisious of V's splicepowers, possibly if he heard the "damned to the lowerplanes" bit.

When he called for a learned scribe in the debriefing think how much of it is about the teleport and how much is about V's powers? Paladin's in theory cannot knowingly associate with evil, I am not sure how far or how anally this goes asusming he *thinks* V used evil/became evil regardless of whatever help V offered.

Possibilities?

Ultimately it all comes down to plot, and whether the story needs O-Chul to be aware of it, but it IS entirely possible that he isn't aware of it. He may have started trying to break his cage as soon as V appeared, which couldn't have left him with much time to listen to the battle banter. Though he may have still heard a word in passing - like "The elf is using Soul Splices!", which would be more than enough of a lead.

[tomandtish]

Well, since he and the MitD are in the same room as the fight and Red Cloak shouts out about the splices, it's reasonable to assume that O-Chul heard this.

Whether it means anything to him or worries him is (like Kaytara says) plot driven, but certainly not necessary.

[Ridureyu]

Even if he had somehow failed to pick up on what a lich was despite having fought one and then spent 8 months as it's roommate, why would he want to kill Roy anyway? :confused:

You guys missed the joke in that. I'm mocking all the "O-Chul doesn't know about thing he heard of" and "O-Chul is gonna kill the party" discussions.

[Dagren]

You guys missed the joke in that. I'm mocking all the "O-Chul doesn't know about thing he heard of" and "O-Chul is gonna kill the party" discussions.Probably because I haven't seen anyone arguing that O-Chul is going to kill the party, and this is the first one I've seen claiming that he's deaf. Methinks you need better material. Try the MitD's identity, V's gender or Belkar's alignment. Those are always fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Ridureyu]

There are plenty of posts claiming that O-Chul doesn't know about the phylactery, and more than a few saying he will kill V, or Belkar, or whomever.

[Omegonthesane]

There are plenty of posts claiming that O-Chul doesn't know about the phylactery, and more than a few saying he will kill V, or Belkar, or whomever.

If O-Chul had been shown to be more hot-headed (he hasn't) then I could believe him trying to kill Belkar. More likely he gives the Belkster a severe tongue-lashing, whereupon someone else - Lien? Roy? Haley? - takes it on themselves to inform Belkar that he has outlived his usefulness and should go find another employer. Then he starts combat, and Roy kills him with relish in self-defence.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Some people have raised the point that O-Chul may be suspisious of V's splicepowers, possibly if he heard the "damned to the lowerplanes" bit.

Well it depends if he did hear that. As it was V broke in and fought evil Xykon, got beaten by evil Xykon, and then helped good O-Chul not once but twice (three times if you count the distraction).

Maybe he could guess "Ah, this individual was possessed or somehow associated with damned souls" - but it's not a lot, especially for a Paladin who spent months befriending a monster in the service of Team Evil.


When he called for a learned scribe in the debriefing think how much of it is about the teleport and how much is about V's powers?

Little on both - I'm sure the debriefing will focus on what is going on in Azure City, what he knows of Redcloak and Xykon and their plan etc.

And since Redcloak kept quizzing him on the Gates he might be able to tell the Order and Hinjo about which Gate Xykon will likely target next.


Paladin's in theory cannot knowingly associate with evil, I am not sure how far or how anally this goes asusming he *thinks* V used evil/became evil regardless of whatever help V offered.

Possibilities?

Well everyone has "associated" with Belkar at some point. I guess it depends on how one defines "associate".

If a Paladin acted as an ambassador or messenger (as we know they do) to another kingdom and they had to deal with a clerk who happened to be LE (a corrupt embezzler), what would happen? The Paladin would only know if they used detect evil, and then they wouldn't know anything about the clerks history or what they had done.

Personally I've always played it as they can't and won't stand by knowingly while someone is doing something evil, but if there is someone with a evil alignment who happens to be acting lawfully they can interact with them, though they won't get close or will avoid purchasing from their shop. Although then again you have Paladins who try to redeem evil doers, so they would have to associate with them...

[teratorn]

Jesus, everybody thinks O'Chul is an idiot or a liar.

What happened to the OC love in this forum?

It least the OP loved O-Chul enough to write his name properly. :smallbiggrin:

O-Chul is always very very cautious and in that regard the oposite of a former paladin. Whatever he suspects he'll tell first to Hinjo. But whatever it is, the order is relatively safe (including Belkar). Hinjo knows he exists as a ruler simply because of suport from OOTS.

[Morquard]

It least the OP loved O-Chul enough to write his name properly. :smallbiggrin:

O-Chul is always very very cautious and in that regard the oposite of a former paladin. Whatever he suspects he'll tell first to Hinjo. But whatever it is, the order is relatively safe (including Belkar). Hinjo knows he exists as a ruler simply because of suport from OOTS.
I don't think Hinjo would let that stop him really.
Yes, he's most certainly grateful for what they did, and considers some of them his friends (Durkon, Elan and possibly V. Haley and Roy maybe, even though he's not seen them in a while. Belkar probably not).

But shoving the rules aside when it serves your purpose or inconvienences you is not part of lawfull good (even though Roy does it all the time...). So, if he should learn that the OotS are infact arch-demons plotting to conquer the world, he might maybe say "I'm sorry my friends", right before ordering their deaths, but I'm sure he would give the order.
Ok, obviously the OOtS aren't archdemons, but the same still applies if he finds out about V's deal with them.

I'm also sure he'll have no problem telling his Paladins to arrest Belkar for his 1 year in prison.

[Namegduf]

I always assumed while reading that very few people knew of soul splices, but after reading this I'm not so sure. Redcloak recognised it quickly, but I'm still guessing that few people not that progressed in a class that'd involve that kind of information would; certainly, V didn't seem to. The fiends told V not to bother looking it up, on the grounds it was a "special once-in-a-century deal", which suggested it not be something known about much, although how likely they are to be truthful is questionable...

That said, even if he might have enough knowledge to guess, I don't think O-Chul would be looking for something. Did V did anything to suggest (aside by appearance) that he was evil that he saw? Largely, V showed up and fought against Xykon, then assisted O-Chul in attempting to destroy the phylactery before even trying to escape. To the fleet, she was unpleasant, but provided them with a great favour.

I don't think he knows what happened. I don't have any idea where to expect things to go now. What V does next, moving on from his brief experience with power, and what her debt results in, will be interesting to see.

[fangthane]

I've seen a grand total of one character (other than V and the fiends) recognise the splice for what it was. Xykon didn't, Tsukiko didn't, certainly none of the Azurites or OotS members had a clue. Xykon had to have it explained for him - by Redcloak and V in turn - before he knew anything.

No, I think that the whole thing can be explained by a SoD spoiler. :)

The crimson mantle grants its wearer a good deal of divine-sourced knowledge from the Dark One himself, including but not limited to the details of The Plan; while a soul splice may be a once-in-a-lifetime event, the Dark One has lived many, many lifetimes. He's also one of the evil deities with whom the IFCC apparently maintain their no-compete agreement for spell power yielded by the Splice, so if he wants Redcloak to be aware of the mechanism, it's a done deal.

As to O-Chul, he may know anywhere from nothing-at-all to the complete substance of V, Redcloak and Xykon's comments regarding the Splice. In all likelihood, it won't matter much since it's hearsay and unless V's alignment actually shifted permanently, all that'll be left is residual evil. Though, it'll be residual evil at triple-epic level. That might provoke some questions.

[Shpadoinkle]

I doubt V is a worshipper of the 12 gods, hence they would not be the one to judge V should death occur.

... I was talking about O-Chul, not V.

[Prak]

I think the twelve gods would be willing to overlook this one incident due to extenuating circumstances.

I'm thinking that Ochul is an intelligent enough paladin to realize that evil can be done out of love in a moment of weakness, and that one act does not an alignment make. I think he'll be rather understanding if V explains what happened, and may work with V closely to make sure that next time such an opportunity comes up V will look for any other possible option.

[Snails]

Regardless of the nature of the powers, O-Chul knows V isn't evil. V came back to save him rather than run away to safety, and helped him in his last-ditch effort to destroy Xykon's phylactery. Anything O-Chul does or asks in regards to the splice will be out of concern for V, not mistrust.

On the nose.

If V. both helped him and risked hes skin to assist in destroying the phylactery, in the absolute worst case V. would be a redeemable soul who could benefit from some understanding and gentle guidance. That is the worst case, from O-Chul point of view.

[David Argall]

I think that the whole thing can be explained by a SoD spoiler. :)

The crimson mantle grants its wearer a good deal of divine-sourced knowledge from the Dark One himself, including but not limited to the details of The Plan; while a soul splice may be a once-in-a-lifetime event, the Dark One has lived many, many lifetimes. He's also one of the evil deities with whom the IFCC apparently maintain their no-compete agreement for spell power yielded by the Splice, so if he wants Redcloak to be aware of the mechanism, it's a done deal.
SoD It's unlikely that the Redcloak gives the wearer a god on call to answer all sorts of questions as soon as one has formed them. Indeed, that may well be a violation of the godly code against getting too involved in the world. So it is quite unlikely the Dark One told Redcloak about the splice. I suppose we should just call this a piece of geek trivia he picked up somewhere.


As to O-Chul, he may know anywhere from nothing-at-all to the complete substance of V, Redcloak and Xykon's comments regarding the Splice.