[3.5] Use Magic Device help

[Rizban]

I'm trying to build a level 7 Artificer character for a campaign. Due to certain other restrictions, he has to be an Artificer 5 and have two 1 level dips in spellcasting classes, such as Artificer 5 / Bard 1 / Cleric 1 or some such.

I'm trying to find the most legal way to max out UMD without taking any more class levels so that I actually have a decent chance of using some of the better magic items we'll undoubtedly come across. Any and all help would be appreciated, as a max rank of 8 in UMD just doesn't cut it, especially since even level 1 scrolls require a minimum UMD check result of 21 to activate.


Edit: I'm probably playing as a human, which would give me one open feat.

[Kylarra]

Bard and Beguiler both have UMD on their skill lists, so you could at least dip those as your 1ofs, depending on the rationale behind forced dipping. Probably some others that I can't think of offhand.

[RTGoodman]

Factotum 1 could be a good dip for you. Grab some inspiration points to add your Int to a few things, including skill checks. Also has EVERY skill as a class skill, so go nuts.

Secondly, could your second dip be a Prestige Class? If so, Exemplar might work - I think it's at 1st level that you can grab Skill Mastery, meaning you can Take 10 on UMD even when you normally can't. That's assuming you can meet the requirements - don't have the book on me to check.

[Eldariel]

Bard has UMD in class. Also, you can just crossclass it. But unless Cleric is your last level, you can get 10 ranks without any extra ranks spent, and even if Cleric is your last level, it's still only 1 extra rank.

Other than that, Spellsight Spectacles give you +5 competence bonus to the check; the item is from Magic Item Compendium (2500gp). Mw. Tools (if you can come up with something appropriate; an amulet to help you focus your will? Some item of the class you're trying to mimic?) gives +2 circumstance bonus to the check.


Other than that, if custom items are allowed, a custom Competence-bonus item could go as high as +30. Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) can essentially double the amount of skills you have there (but has some screwy rules attached). Skill Focus is of course +3, although it shouldn't be necessary.

That's about it; most other boosts are momentary (Divine Insight [SC]/Guidance of the Avatar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) basically ensure one check, but are then consumed) or require other characters (Aid Another). Don't forget to boost your Charisma some too though.

[Saph]

You can still take ranks in UMD with your other classes - it's just more expensive. (2 skill points instead of 1 if it's cross-class.) So that gives you 10 ranks.

5 ranks in Spellcraft will give you a +2 synergy bonus for scrolls. That puts you up to 12.

A decent Charisma will give you a little more, which you presumably have if you're taking levels in Bard. Say that gives you a +2 for a total of +14.

You may be able to get a masterwork tool for UMD. I say 'may' because it's conceptually rather dubious and the DM might veto it, UMD being probably the most powerful skill in the game. Check with your DM on this one. I won't include this in the running total since it's not guaranteed.

Finally, you can get a pair of Spellsight Spectacles from the Magic Item Compendium, page 138. They give a +5 to UMD for the purposes of scrolls.

So that gives you a +19 for scrolls, meaning you'll succeed on the activation check for a level 1 scroll on anything but a natural 1. One more level and you'll have +20, which puts you into auto-success territory.

Note, however, that your UMD check for wands, etc, will be much lower, only +12. I don't think there's any reliable way to boost that up to auto-success levels without bringing in custom items.

Hope that helps.

- Saph

Edit: Forgot one. 5 ranks in Decipher Script gives you a +2 synergy bonus on UMD checks for scrolls. Adding that in with the Spellsight Spectacles gives you +21. No custom item required.

[Rizban]

On a note: I just listed Bard and Cleric in the first post because they were the first two caster classes that came to mind. I tend to think alphabetically when remembering names.

Thanks for the input, but how much of that is really feasible for a level 7 character?

I mean, a +30 competence item is probably more than a bit out of the price range of a 7th level, even crafting it (45,000gp to craft).

Factotum looks promising, but you don't gain the ability to cast spells until level 2, which probably eliminates it from this build.

A PrC might work, but it has to have individual spell progression rather than just adding to another class. Exemplar, sadly, isn't a spellcaster.


Edit: I'm probably playing as a human, which would give me one open feat.

[Eldariel]

Finally, you can get a pair of Spellsight Spectacles from the Magic Item Compendium, page 138. They give a +5 to UMD for the purposes of scrolls.

They're only for scrolls? Damn, I remembered they applied for anything. However, this does open up one more item: Circlet of Persuasion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#circletofPersuasion)

Now, the Circlet grants +3 competence to all Charisma-checks. It does not stack with Spellsight Spectacles for reading Scrolls; both are Competence-bonus to the same check, meaning you take the higher bonus (Spellsight Spectacles) and go with the +5. However, for all other uses of UMD, you'll get +3 from the Circlet, putting your Wand use at respectable +15 for level 7 assuming 14 Cha (12 base, +2 item maybe?).

And indeed, due to availability of Synergy-bonuses for Scroll-checks, it's probably worth it to skip Spellsight Spectacles entirely and save some money; this lowers your Scroll-checks by 2, but saves you 2500gp, and you'll still have +19 UMD for scrolls and +15 for Wands. As a bonus, Circlet is Core.


This is without feat investment. And a custom item, I said they go up to +30; get +7-+10 for now. That alone pretty much ensures you make all your checks. If you can get one, don't bother with Circlet of Persuasion, btw.

As I said before, Item Familiar is the best use for a feat slot if allowed, just thinking of pumping UMD. Second best is unfortunately Skill Focus: UMD, which is only +3. Item Familiar can already be like +5 though.

[Saph]

Thanks for the input, but how much of that is really feasible for a level 7 character?

Well, Spellsight Spectacles are 2,500 gp. Circlet of Persuasion is 4,500 gp. Both are within your price range. Pick one or the other, not both, as they don't stack.

10 ranks + 2 charisma + 3 Circlet would give you +15 base. Add in synergy bonuses for scrolls, and that puts it up to +19 using only simple stuff.

You could just get Skill Focus: UMD with your Human bonus feat for the last +3 if you want. That should be plenty.

- Saph

[Fishy]

If you take one of your dips as Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) and take Inspire Charisma, you effectively double your Charisma modifier. It's a circumstance bonus, though, so it won't stack with a (theoretical and silly) UMD tool. Also, heavy armor proficiency, why not.

Edit @v Oh, right. Duh.

[Rizban]

As a 5th level Artificer, I'll be able to craft 4th level scrolls, requiring a check of 27 to both craft and activate. At +19, that's a 35% failure rate, and if I find any higher level scrolls, then that's not good. Since I'll most likely be functioning as the primary spellcaster for the party, that kind of failure rate on the few spells I'll have time to craft isn't really acceptable if it gets my party killed.

Edit: Marshal isn't a spellcaster either. :smallannoyed:


I may see if my DM will allow Item Familiar at level 1 and provide a way for the character to obtain the expensive magical item.

Assuming at least a 14 Int, I would be getting 6+ skill points a level with Artificer, granting a +2 bonus from Item Familiar from each level of Artificer. That would put UMD at 10 + 10 untyped without anything else. That's pretty powerful... but then, UA is like that.


If not, I just found the feat Nymph's Kiss in BoED which gives a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-related checks, and a +1 bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities, and +1 skill point per level from when you take the feat.

[Eldariel]

If you take one of your dips as Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) and take Inspire Charisma, you effectively double your Charisma modifier. It's a circumstance bonus, though, so it won't stack with a (theoretical and silly) UMD tool. Also, heavy armor proficiency, why not.

Edit @v Oh, right. Duh.

Circumstance bonuses from different sources stack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#circumstanceModifier). They're basically the Dodge-bonuses of non-AC factors.

[Killer Angel]

You may be able to get a masterwork tool for UMD. I say 'may' because it's conceptually rather dubious and the DM might veto it, UMD being probably the most powerful skill in the game. Check with your DM on this one. I won't include this in the running total since it's not guaranteed.


And you should be able to justify the tool's effect.
Maybe (for the scrolls) a book with standard magical phrases, with a page (as in the dictionary) showing the right pronuntiation of the magical letters.

[Saph]

And you should be able to justify the tool's effect.
Maybe (for the scrolls) a book with standard magical phrases, with a page (as in the dictionary) showing the right pronuntiation of the magical letters.

It's reasonable enough, but using that and a scroll at the same time in combat would require three or four hands. Anyway, UMD items default to 'ask your DM', so there's only so much advice we can give.

Nymph's Kiss works . . . kind of. It's an Exalted feat, which carries some significant RP requirements. It also assumes you 'maintain a relationship with a good-aligned fey' (yes, that kind of relationship). Not a drawback, exactly, but make sure you know what you're getting into. :P

- Saph

[Coidzor]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=813665

I just had that open due to my own study of Artificers. It seems to recommend sorcerer just so you can go ahead and get the entire arcane element under your belt. If your other dip is cleric, try to get one with War(longbow, perhaps? or anything else to give you something better than a crossbow/morningstar option)/Magic domains


Also, while not technically a synergy, the well versed Artificer can get bonuses to their Use Magic Device checks using the following tricks:

You get +2 on UMD checks if you've activated the device previously
You get +2 on UMD if they have the appropriate item creation feat

The first one is a safe bet if you made the item (or at least could be argued with the DM as getting that bonus due to having made it) and the second is guaranteed if you've made it.

[Rizban]

Nymph's Kiss works . . . kind of. It's an Exalted feat, which carries some significant RP requirements. It also assumes you 'maintain a relationship with a good-aligned fey' (yes, that kind of relationship). Not a drawback, exactly, but make sure you know what you're getting into. :P

"I'd like you to meet my girlfriend." *Reaches into back pocket and produces a pixie*

[Killer Angel]

It's reasonable enough, but using that and a scroll at the same time in combat would require three or four hands. Anyway, UMD items default to 'ask your DM', so there's only so much advice we can give.


I (as a DM) could concede the use of such an item, ruling that search for the words to obtain the bonus, is a full round action.
So, you can have the bonus, it's good for buffing or utilities spells, but in combat is a lot less available.

But all of this is house ruling...

[Coidzor]

"I'd like you to meet my girlfriend." *Reaches into back pocket and produces a pixie*

Giant Size would be useful there...:smallamused: Though pixies are actually small-sized fey, I think...

Hmm, now what kind of item would that end up looking like?

[Rizban]

Giant Size from a Wu Jen would be useful there...:smallamused:

Hmm, now what kind of item would that end up looking like?

Only if I can keep her in a box in my pocket.

[Coidzor]

Only if I can keep her in a box in my pocket.

Well there's always leadership and getting her as a cohort... probably the +4 variety since the +6 would put her at your level.

[AslanCross]

Just a caveat for Spellsight Spectacles: They only give a UMD bonus to scroll use checks.

[jcsw]

Convince DM that the scrolls you make are arcane. Take cleric with spell domain. Use other domain for generic bonuses such as artifice domain.

[Rizban]

I'm not sure how +2 bonus on Concentration & Spellcraft checks from Spell domain would benefit the character much.

If I did use Cleric, I'd be tempted to grab Planning for the free Extend Spell metamagic feat.


Anyway, I've already convinced the DM that despite not being arcane or divine, other classes can use scrolls I make as if they were normal scrolls. The crafted scrolls just have a forced "copy protection" feature that prevents them from being copied into a wizard's spellbook.

[Fixer]

Artificer 4/Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Artificer 1

This character won't need UMD on most magic items and can have max UMD for its character level. They also won't take an XP hit if Artificer is their preferred class.

Wands are, 90% of the time, either on the Cleric or Sorcerer/Wizard lists. This character will be able to activate all those wands, without a UMD check, because they actually have the spell on their class list.

Scrolls get a bit more complicated, because you are unlikely to meet the caster level requirement to automatically cast from a scroll, but the UMD check for scrolls isn't too bad, once you have some items to boost it. At least you don't have to emulate the ability to have it on your class list most of the time.

[Saph]

Anyway, I've already convinced the DM that despite not being arcane or divine, other classes can use scrolls I make as if they were normal scrolls. The crafted scrolls just have a forced "copy protection" feature that prevents them from being copied into a wizard's spellbook.

So what, your scrolls have DRM? Does that make the Artificer's Guild the equivalent of big record companies?

- Saph

[JeenLeen]

The feat "Able Learner" from Races of Destiny makes it cost 1 point for cross-class skills (or, at least cross-class skills for a current class that were class skills in another. I forget the specifics.)

So if you take a level of Bard or something with UMD as a class skill, you can afterwards always keep it at max rank (level + 3) for one skill point per rank. The prereq is being human or human-descended, but you said you are probably human, so that's covered.

Edit: Beguiler (PHBII) is a good spellcaster that has UMD as a class skill. But, as stated above, grabbing Cleric and a Wiz/Sorc-list level would make less things require UMD.

[Coidzor]

I'm not sure how +2 bonus on Concentration & Spellcraft checks from Spell domain would benefit the character much.

If I did use Cleric, I'd be tempted to grab Planning for the free Extend Spell metamagic feat.


Anyway, I've already convinced the DM that despite not being arcane or divine, other classes can use scrolls I make as if they were normal scrolls. The crafted scrolls just have a forced "copy protection" feature that prevents them from being copied into a wizard's spellbook.

That's good, since that'll help you out in a big way since you have to act as the primary spellcaster(but at least you're not also the primary healer... right?) and you're going to be using consumable magic for the most part.

I think the idea in suggesting the spell domain was that he meant the one that allows arcane spells onto the class list or at least, to be able to use 'em as if you were a wizard...


MAGIC DOMAIN

Granted Power: Use scrolls, wands, and other devices with spell completion or spell trigger activation as a wizard of one-half your cleric level (at least 1st level). For the purpose of using a scroll or other magic device, if you are also a wizard, actual wizard levels and these effective wizard levels stack.

I think that would make it so that a one-level dip into cleric (say of Mystra/Boccob(?)) would get you what you wanted, and so you could either just have the one dip out of artificer or you could do something else with your other dip.

[Douglas]

Could you explain why you need those two dips in casting classes? They don't seem to serve much purpose to me.

[Devils_Advocate]

As noted, you should have 10 ranks in UMD, and you don't have to buy it cross-class if your last level is in Artificer.

Take the Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) and Magical Aptitude feats. Together, these raise your UMD modifier by +5.

5 ranks in Spellcraft and 5 ranks in Decipher Script each give you a +2 bonus on UMD checks with scrolls, so together that's +4.

You also get the Artificer's +2 Artisan Bonus on scrolls.

High Charisma, obviously, is helpful here, even though it doesn't really get an Artificer anything else.

So with 10 skill ranks, +5 from feats, +4 from synergy bonuses, the +2 Artisan Bonus, and at least +1 from Cha, you've got a +22 UMD modifier for scrolls even before adding any magic items. That's already enough to successfully cast from any 3rd-level scroll even on a 1.

With an 18 Charisma and the two above-mentioned feats, you can have a +19 UMD modifier even before situational bonuses. That's enough to activate any wand or staff whose command word you know, or emulate any class feature, even on a 1.

[herrhauptmann]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned getting a ring of +UMD?
There's several rings that give bonuses to skills in the DMG. I believe the cost is along the lines of Skill bonus squared * 100.
So a +5 ring is (5*5)*100= 2500. Or a +10 is (10*10)*100 = 10,000.
And I believe that to add this to your armor, instead of using a ring slot, is double the price. Don't have my DMG handy right now.

[Eldariel]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned getting a ring of +UMD?
There's several rings that give bonuses to skills in the DMG. I believe the cost is along the lines of Skill bonus squared * 100.
So a +5 ring is (5*5)*100= 2500. Or a +10 is (10*10)*100 = 10,000.
And I believe that to add this to your armor, instead of using a ring slot, is double the price. Don't have my DMG handy right now.

Custom items have been mentioned at least 4 times. Their exact nature is trivial; I'd personally prefer a headband or an amulet, for example, but they all should be synergistic with UMD (Rings are basically synergistic for everything, hence why they're limited to two and require higher level Craft-feat to make).

[Chronos]

Nobody else has mentioned incarnum? Spending a feat on Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles will get you a +4 Insight bonus right off the bat, plus another +2 for every point of essentia. If Incarnate counts as a casting class for purposes of your dips, you don't even need a feat to get it, and you get an extra point of essentia to invest. Play an Azurin instead of a human (human subtype, bonus feat, bonus point of essentia, but no extra skill points and favored class Soulborn instead of Any) and you'll get another essentia. Alternately, take the Bonus Essentia feat to get two essentia.

To summarize,
1-level Incarnate dip: +6 UMD
1-level Incarnate dip and Azurin race: +8 UMD
Shape Soulmeld feat: +4 UMD
Shape Soulmeld and Bonus Essentia feats: +8 UMD

[Rizban]

So what, your scrolls have DRM? Does that make the Artificer's Guild the equivalent of big record companies?

- Saph

Exactly, and all the evil that entails. :smallbiggrin:


Could you explain why you need those two dips in casting classes? They don't seem to serve much purpose to me.

DM requirement/fluff reasons. :smallannoyed:


Nobody else has mentioned incarnum? Spending a feat on Shape Soulmeld: Mage's Spectacles will get you a +4 Insight bonus right off the bat, plus another +2 for every point of essentia. If Incarnate counts as a casting class for purposes of your dips, you don't even need a feat to get it, and you get an extra point of essentia to invest. Play an Azurin instead of a human (human subtype, bonus feat, bonus point of essentia, but no extra skill points and favored class Soulborn instead of Any) and you'll get another essentia. Alternately, take the Bonus Essentia feat to get two essentia.

To summarize,
1-level Incarnate dip: +6 UMD
1-level Incarnate dip and Azurin race: +8 UMD
Shape Soulmeld feat: +4 UMD
Shape Soulmeld and Bonus Essentia feats: +8 UMD

I hadn't even considered Incarnum. I'll check and see what is allowed. Thanks.

[quick_comment]

Psionic Shards give up to a +10 competence bonus to a single skill. They are consumable though. The pricing is bonus^2*10.

[Bayar]

Magic domain cleric - seconded.

Also, take the Illiterate trait, apply bonus to UMD, spend 2 skill points to become literate.

[Blackfang108]

Artificer 4/Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Artificer 1

This character won't need UMD on most magic items and can have max UMD for its character level. They also won't take an XP hit if Artificer is their preferred class.

Or if he's human.

Remember, if all other classes are within the xp threshold, the highest class doesn't count for humans.

[Darkfire]

I can't believe no-one's mentioned Cloak of Charmisa yet. Admittedly it's nowhere near as cost effective as the Circlet of Persuasion but it'll stack with everything else that's been suggested and it's not competing for a body-slot. 4k for +2 Cha giving +1 to all Cha-based skills.

The +4 version is within your budget but the extra 12k it costs can be better spent.

[Demons_eye]

The trait Illiterate gives you a plus one or two for a single skill and only cost the ability to read which you can get back for 2 skill points.

Edit:ninja'd

[ericgrau]

Custom magic items need DM approval. Besides the items already mentioned there's 2 feats for +5. 5 ranks in spellcraft and 5 ranks in decipher script each give a +2 to scrolls only. Heroism can be cast in the morning for a +2 to skill checks (and most other rolls, for that matter). Also note that the item/charge isn't expended and there's no mishap if you fail by less than 10. So anything you can UMD between combats is a good item to get. Perhaps a wand of heroism, for example.

At level 7 I think - after skimming the thread briefly and assuming 10 ranks - we're up to a modifier of at least 20+cha, and 29+cha for scrolls, not counting the cloak of charisma nor class dips. Between combat that's enough to reliably make DCs of 30+cha and 39+cha for scrolls, which is just about everything.

A common cheesy way to boost UMD is to take a 1 level dip into marshall to use an aura to essentially double your charisma bonus to skill checks.

[Curmudgeon]

Does it all have to be Use Magic Device? As you need a 1-level dip into a couple of spellcasting classes, a level of Cleric with the Magic domain will get you the ability to use all spell completion or spell trigger items that either Clerics or Wizards can use. Then you can save UMD for the other things, like Emulate Alignment.

[Person_Man]

Arcane Schooling: You’re treated as having one level of one arcane class for the purpose of activating spell trigger items. Player’s Guide to Faerun pg 33 (which means you probably won't be able to use it with an Eberron class).

Magic Device Attunement: If you successfully make a UMD check to use an item, you don’t have to make another one when using that item for the next 24 hours. You can only attune one item at a time. Complete Mage pg 44.

Warlock 3: Let's you Take 10 on UMD checks. One level more then what you want for this build, but I think it's still worth considering, since Warlock Invocations can be quite useful for various all day buffs.

Archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3): 1 level dip gives you access to all divine spell trigger items (Cleric, Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Blackguard, all domains, etc).

[Darrin]

Two 2nd level cleric spells you might want to consider:

Divine Insight: insight bonus = 5 + caster level, max 15. Spell Compendium.

Guidance of the Avatar: +20 competence bonus to one skill check. From the WotC website:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a

Guidance of the Avatar is also potion-able for 300 GP.

[Waspinator]

I would definitely go Archivist / Wizard for your other two classes. Intelligence-based casters would work well with Artificer and they'll make you able to use a ton of wands (anything from the Wizard and Cleric lists) without UMD. Depending on DM ruling, you might be technically able to use any divine wand, regardless of the class that the spell belongs to, because of how Archivist works.

And, if I understand skill points correctly, you can start in Artificer, max out UMD, take the levels in the other classes and not bother with UMD ranks, and then finish it off in Artificer and simply spend an extra point on UMD during two of the Artificer levels to catch up. This character should have a high Intelligence score, so you should have the points for it.