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Jane_Smith
2009-06-17, 04:59 PM
I just recently got the pathfinder campaign setting book and the free-pdf they give out on the paizo site for the new races/classes/feats/spells/skills/etc. I think I had a joygasim. :smallbiggrin: But, one thing that bugs me is they haven't made a monster manual yet. Which is fine, i understand a lot of dnd critters are trademarked and all that crap (I think even Oots had a mention about a mind flayer... -gets slapped by briefcase-). So, been working on my own homebrewed versions, using the pathfinder core races as my foundation. Take a peek and tell me what you think;



~~~~~~~~~~Pathfinder Races~~~~~~~~~~


~~~~~~~~~~Changelings~~~~~~~~~~

Changeling Racial Traits
- +2 to one ability score: Changeling characters get a bonus on one ability of their choice at 1st level, to represent their varied nature. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.
- Medium: Changelings are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Changelings have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Change Shape: As a free action, changeling can alter their physical form to take on the appearance of any medium sized humanoid, including a unique individual they have seen in person. This ability works like the Disguise Self spell, except all changes are nonmagical and last until the changeling dismisses the ability or changes to a new form.
- Changeling Magic: Changelings gain a +1 bonus to their caster level when using any spell that changes or alters their appearance or physical body. Changelings gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against spells or effects that physically change or alter its body in any way. A result of a natural 1 on any saving throw against any such effect is not considered an automatic failure.
- Changeling Skills: Changelings gain a +2 racial bonus to Bluff and Sense Motive skills.
- Weapon Training: Changelings are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice, in addition to those granted by class proficiencies. This weapon must by chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed.
- Languages: Changelings begin play speaking Common. Changelings with high Intelligence scores can chose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
- Favored Class: Changelings can choose any one class as their favored class at 1st level. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Orcs~~~~~~~~~~

Orc Racial Traits
- +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence: Orcs are physically strong and tough, but are bestial in thought and hold little value on education.
- Medium: Orcs are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Orcs have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 feet: Orcs can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
- Orc Ferocity: When a orc is brought below 0 hit points, but not killed, he can fight on for one more round as if disabled. At the end of his next turn, unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls unconscious and begins dying as normal. A orc only dies when his hit points are brought to a negative total equal to his constitution score, or -10, whichever is lower.
- Orcish Survival: Orcs receive a +2 bonus on all Survival checks to find food and water, and gain a +2 bonus on all constitution checks and fortitude saves against hazardous environmental conditions. Orcs can live in some of the most harsh conditions in the world without difficulty.
- Weapon Familiarity: Ocs are proficient with greataxes and falchions, and treat any weapon with the word "orc" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Orcs begin play speaking Common and Orc. Orcs with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.
- Favored Class: The favored class of half-orcs is barbarian or fighter. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Aasimar~~~~~~~~~~

Edit: You may notice my Planetouched are no longer extraplanar outsiders. They are normal humanoids with the good and evil subtype. An aasimar = Humanoid (Human, Good). Thus they show up as good to detect good, etc spells even if they are pure evil, and are subject to effects that can target normal humans. This also removes the annoying weaknesses of banishment, dismissal, etc. My theory is, they are -distant- children of the outer planes, not half-bloods, not grandchildren, but their bloodline has a 'tint' of it. Their more human then outsiders, so why should they be labeled outsiders if the influence is minor?

Aasimar Racial Traits
- +2 to one ability score: Aasimar characters get a bonus on one ability of their choice at 1st level, to represent their varied nature. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.
- Medium: Aasimar are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Aasimar have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 feet: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
- Divine Magnetism: Aasimar gain a +2 racial bonus on all Diplomacy checks.
- Divine Insight: Aasimar gain a +2 racial bonus on all Sense Motive checks.
- Aasimar Magic: Aasimar with a Charisma of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day- Stabilize, Guidance, Light, Bless. The caster level for these effects is equal to the aasimar's level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the aasimar's Charisma modifier.
- Weapon Training: Aasimars are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice, in addition to those granted by class proficiencies. This weapon must by chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed.
- Divine Blood: Aasimar gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison. Aasimar's are considered Humanoids (Humans) with the good subtype.
- Languages: Aasimars begin play speaking Common. Aasimars with high Intelligence scores can chose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
- Favored Class: Aasimar can choose cleric or paladin as their favored class at 1st level. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Tieflings~~~~~~~~~~

Same as above, but considered Humanoids (Humans, Evil). Also note that Dim Light is the opposite of light and lowers the light conditions of its radius around a touched object by 1 category. Its not a full blown darkness.

Tiefling Racial Traits
- +2 to one ability score: Tiefling characters get a bonus on one ability of their choice at 1st level, to represent their varied nature. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.
- Medium: Tieflings are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Tieflings have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Tieflings can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
- Devil's Guile: Tieflings gain a +2 racial bonus on all Bluff checks.
- Devil's Touch: Tieflings gain a +2 racial bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks.
- Tiefling Magic: Tieflings with a Charisma of 11 or higher gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day- Bleed, Dim Light, Touch of Fatigue, Bane. The caster level for these effects is equal to the tiefling's level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the tiefling's Charisma modifier.
- Weapon Training: Tieflings are proficient with any one martial weapon of their choice, in addition to those granted by class proficiencies. This weapon must by chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed.
- Tainted Blood: Tieflings gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison. Tieflings are considered Humanoids (Human) with the evil subtype.
- Languages: Tieflings begin play speaking Common. Tieflings with high Intelligence scores can chose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
- Favored Class: Tieflings can choose rogue or sorcerer as their favored class at 1st level. Once made, this choice cannot be chang


~~~~~~~~~~Goblins~~~~~~~~~~

Goblin Racial Traits
- +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength.
- Small: Goblins are Small creatures, and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
- Normal Speed: Goblins have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Goblins can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Keen Senses: Goblins receive a +2 racial bonus on all scent-, sound- and taste-based Perception checks.
- Quick-Footed: Goblins receive a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity made from moving in or out of areas their opponent threatens. In addition, as a swift action a goblin may move 5 feet in any direction after making a attack. This movement is considered a defensive retreat, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
- Goblin Endurance: Goblins receive a +1 racial bonus on all Fortitude saving throws.
- Craven: Goblins receive a +1 racial bonus on all attack and damage rolls made when below half health.
- Weapon Familiarity: Goblins are proficient with daggers and javelins and treat any weapon with the word "goblin" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Goblins begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Goblins with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Abyssal, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnome, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of goblins is rogue or sorcerer. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Hobgoblins~~~~~~~~~~

Hobgoblins Racial Traits
- +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom.
- Medium: Hobgoblins are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Hobgoblins have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Hobgoblins can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Keen Senses: Hobgoblins receive a +2 racial bonus on all sound-based Perception checks.
- Resilience: Whenever a hobgoblin makes a Fortitude saving throw against any spell or effect that has a partial effect even on a successful save, the hobgoblin completely ignores the effect on a successful save.
- Goblin Endurance: Hobgoblins receive a +1 racial bonus on all Fortitude saving throws.
- Fearless: Hobgoblins receive a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws against fear.
- Battle Ready: Hobgoblins receive a +2 bonus to all initiative checks.
- Weapon Familiarity: Hobgoblins are proficient with all simple weapons, any single martial weapon of their choice and treat any weapon with the word "goblin" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Hobgoblins begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Hobgoblins with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Abyssal, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnome, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of hobgoblins is fighter or rogue. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Bugbears~~~~~~~~~~

Bugbear Racial Traits
- +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma.
- Medium: Bugbears are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Bugbears have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Bugbears can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Keen Senses: Bugbears receive a +2 racial bonus on all sound-based Perception checks.
- Oversized: Bugbears can use weapons one size larger than themselves without penalty for the increased size.
- Goblin Endurance: Bugbears receive a +1 racial bonus on all Fortitude saving throws.
- Predatory: Bugbears receive a +2 racial bonus on Intimidate checks, and can use Intimidate in battle to demoralize enemy's as a move action instead of a standard action.
- Weapon Familiarity: Bugbears are proficient with clubs, dire flails, flails, greatclubs, light flails, morningstars and treat any weapon with the word "goblin" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Bugbears begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Bugbears with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Abyssal, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnome, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of bugbears is fighter or rogue. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Varags~~~~~~~~~~

Varag Racial Traits
- +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence.
- Medium: Varag are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Fast Speed: Varags have a base speed of 50 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Varags can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Keen Senses: Varags receive a +2 racial bonus on all Perception checks.
- Goblin Endurance: Varags receive a +1 racial bonus on all Fortitude saving throws.
- Swift Trackers: Varags can move at their normal speed while following tracks without taking the normal -5 penalty. They take only a -10 penalty (instead of the normal -20) when moving at up to twice normal speed while tracking.
- Run: Varags receive the Run feat as a bonus feat at 1st level.
- Weapon Familiarity: Varags are proficient with any weapon with the word "goblin" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Varags begin play speaking Common and Goblin. Goblins with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Abyssal, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnome, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of varags is barbarian or ranger. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Drow~~~~~~~~~~

Drow Racial Traits
- +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution. Drow are nimble, both in body and tongue, but their form is frail.
- Medium: Drow are Medium creatures, and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Normal Speed: Drow have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Drow can see clearly in darkness up to 60 feet.
- Keen Senses: Drow receive a +2 bonus on sight- and sound-based Perception checks. They can make a Perception check to spot a secret or concealed object if they pass within 10 feet of it, regardless of whether or not they are actively looking.
- Drow Immunities: Drow are immune to magical sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against all spells and spell-like abilities.
- Drow Magic: Drow with a Charisma of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day- Darkness, Dancing Lights, Faerie Fire. The caster level for these effects is equal to the drow's level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the drow's Charisma modifier.
- Weapon Familiarity: Drow are proficient with daggers, hand crossbows, light crossbows, rapiers, shortswords, whips, and treat any wapon with the word "drow" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Drow begin play speaking Undercommon and Elven. Drow with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Common, Abyssal, Draconic, Dwarven, Gnome, Goblin, and Orc.
- Favored Class: The favored class of drow is rogue or wizard. This choice


~~~~~~~~~~Trolls~~~~~~~~~~

Troll Racial Traits;
- +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Strolls are strong, and have a predatory sense of perception of their surroundings, but are cruel and foul to everyone around them.
- Large: Trolls, as large sized creatures, gain a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, armor class, and take a -4 size penalty to Stealth checks.
- Normal Speed: Trolls have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Trolls can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Natural Weapons: Trolls gain a bite attack as a natural weapon that deals 1d4 + 1/2 their strength modifier in piercing damage, and a pair of claws that deal 1d6 + their strength modifier in slashing damage.
- Fast Healing: Trolls with at least 1 or more hit points regain a number of hit points each round equal to their Constitution modifier (if positive), to a minimum of 1 hit point. Damage taken by acid or fire sources cannot be recovered by this ability. A troll can use a full round action to reattached a severed limb, and this healing allows a troll to regrow a severed limb after a full 8 hours of rest. This time resting does not have to be consecutive.
- Troll Vulnerabilities:Trolls take +50% damage from all sources of acid or fire damage.
- Weapon Training: Trolls are proficient with battleaxes, greataxes, javelins, spears and treat any weapon with the word "troll" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Trolls begin play speaking Common and Giant. Trolls with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnoll, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of trolls is barbarian or ranger. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.


~~~~~~~~~~Racial Feats~~~~~~~~~~

This is my attempt to make 3 racial feats for every pathfinder race that amplifies their racial treats or gives them new abilities. My aim is to make a offensive, defensive, and utility feat of these three, and im going to attempt to make the feats be both useful for casters, skill monkeys and warriors, if possible. Wish me luck. :smalleek:


Humans~~~~

Swift Adaptation [Racial]
Prerequisites: Human only, Wis 13+.
Benefit: Whenever you make a successful saving throw or skill check, you gain a +1 bonus to that save or skill until the end of the encounter, or until 5 minutes have passed, whichever happens first. This bonus stacks with itself, up to a maximum bonus of +3.

Quick Learner [Racial]
Prerequisites: Human only, Int 13+.
Benefit: Choose two skills that are not a class skills to you. These skills become class skills for you, and you gain all normal benefits for having ranks in these skills. In addition, you gain an additional 2 skill points to spend upon taking this feat.

Multicultural [Racial]
Prerequisites: Human only, Cha 13+, must be able to speak, read and write the selected races language.
Benefit: Choose another race other then your own. When dealing with that race, you gain a +2 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate and Sense Motive skill checks, and you gain a +2 bonus on all Knowledge checks related to that race.


Dwarves~~~~

Iron Blooded [Racial]
Prerequisites: Dwarf only, Con 13+.
Benefit: You gain a +1 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, spells, and spell-like abilities. This stacks with your Hearty ability's bonus to saving throws.

Grizzled Veteran [Racial]
Prerequisites: Dwarf only, Wis 13+.
Benefit: You may use your Wisdom bonus for your Intimidate checks instead of your Charisma bonus, if higher. In addition, you gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against fear spells and effects.

Born of the Forge [Racial]
Prerequisites: Dwarf only, Int 13+.
Benefit: When making craft checks you have ranks in, your progress by the week advances by platinum, and your progress by the day progresses by gold. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus to all such craft checks.

Morty
2009-06-17, 05:10 PM
Darn it, I was going to Pathfinderize MM races.:smallwink:
Still, they look good and balanced with PHB Pathfinder races. Pretty much how I'd do them, only I was going to give an Int bonus to goblins, Cha bonus to hobgoblins and Wis bonus to bugbears.
Where are Vorags from, though?

arguskos
2009-06-17, 05:27 PM
The spelling is wrong on "Vorag". It should be Varag. @M0rt: they are a goblinoid race from the MMV. Pretty much, they have a massive move speed and use Spring Attack to outpace adventurers w/o trying too hard.

About the races themselves:
-Changelings look fine.
-Orcs are really really REALLY good. +2 Str/Con, -2 Int? That's... really damn good. I might suggest you change it to +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int, and play up the shamanistic bent somewhat. Otherwise, why would I ever play anything else for a fighter-type?
-Aasimar/Tiefling are fine. I like the change to Humanoid (human, good/evil). It's a needed change and I like it.
-Goblins are pretty good. However, why do they get +2 Wis when they have Sorcerer as a favored class? Change that to a +2 Cha and we're in business! Also, I really like Quick Step.
-Hobbos be cracking! That +2 Init is amazing. Everything looks fine, but that's pretty damn good.
-Bugbears don't get enough love. Good on you, for making a good update. Oversized seems pretty good, but I can see it working out alright. I am scared of a Large Dire Flail in the hands of a bugbear though. :smalleek:
-Varags look fine.
-Drow look fine too, though I might remove the elven weapon profs, seeing as they no longer have access to elven weapons.

I love the idea of adding racial feats that improve racial powers. Go for it!

Jane_Smith
2009-06-17, 05:38 PM
As for orcs - Thats just.. their style. Their species, their entire way of life is one giant battle. It just -fits- them that of all the dumbass brutes out their, they would be "TEH BRUTES" to end all brutes. If anyone has mastered combat and martial classes, orcs would have been the first, even if their not the sharpest tool in the shed, am i wrong? Making them more wise, charismatic, or intelligence is a crime against nature... >.>

Same for goblins - their not charismatic in the least. Honestly i wanted to give them -2 charisma or -2 intelligence, but settled for -2 strength instead due to their small size. Only reason i gave them +2 Wisdom was because their incredibly perceptive, alert, fidgety/cowardly most of the time and are like cockroachs... you just cant seem to make them extinct no matter how hard you try. Survival, Perception, etc = all governed by wisdom. Plus, i was thinking of making goblins rogue and -cleric- for their favored class, as they tend to worship higher beings like goblin-gods, demons, sacred sites, etc.

As for bugbears... my boyfriend enjoys playing those, I would not have heard the end of it if I made them badly. :smallbiggrin:

arguskos
2009-06-17, 05:44 PM
As for orcs - Thats just.. their style. Their species, their entire way of life is one giant battle. It just -fits- them that of all the dumbass brutes out their, they would be "TEH BRUTES" to end all brutes. If anyone has mastered combat and martial classes, orcs would have been the first, even if their not the sharpest tool in the shed, am i wrong? Making them more wise, charismatic, or intelligence is a crime against nature... >.>

Same for goblins - their not charismatic in the least. Honestly i wanted to give them -2 charisma or -2 intelligence, but settled for -2 strength instead due to their small size. Only reason i gave them +2 Wisdom was because their incredibly perceptive, alert, fidgety/cowardly most of the time and are like cockroachs... you just cant seem to make them extinct no matter how hard you try. Survival, Perception, etc = all governed by wisdom. Plus, i was thinking of making goblins rogue and -cleric- for their favored class, as they tend to worship higher beings like goblin-gods, demons, sacred sites, etc.

As for bugbears... my boyfriend enjoys playing those, I would not have heard the end of it if I made them badly. :smallbiggrin:
Fair on the goblins and bugbears. Love me some buggies!

As for orcs, +2 Str/Con is still pretty powerful. Give them another -2 somewhere or something! Combine their physical boosts with their "we don't die easily yo" ability, and they are scary combatants. Just my 2cp.

Dienekes
2009-06-17, 08:26 PM
Not bad, I really liked them actually.

Though personally, Orcs are too good. Maybe take -2 off Cha as well. Same goes for Bugbears I think

I have to disagree with your assessment on goblins, personally I would have given them +2 to Intelligence, since the idea of a Goblin being actually intelligent enough to know how weak he is and run away makes sense to me. I've always envisioned goblins as the intelligent buggers of the goblinoid family.

I would have given the Hobgoblins the +2 to Wis and -2 to Int as I believe their fluff is the supreme warrior culture with little ties to learning.

Of course, this is simple matter of differing opinion on the fluff of races.

On a whole, they seem pretty balances, outside the previously mentioned.

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 01:02 PM
Meh, i find it odd having str/con is so broken when people complain about martial classes being to underpowered mid/late games anyway. But, whatever, gave orcs +2 wisdom instead of +2 constitution. :P

Im considering making a few more, mainly im thinking Gnolls, Ogres, Derro, Lizardfolk, Trolls, etc.

Out of curiosity... is it even possible to give a la 0 race, even if its like the dwarf and BORDERLINE +1 la, Fast Healing equal to their con bonus with fire vulnerability as a trait? Aka, trolls. Been tossing that idea in my head for a while to make them a large-sized, regeneration, +0 la race... seems nearly impossible, i know, but id like to attempt it..

The Professor
2009-06-18, 01:11 PM
While I agree with your stand point on orcs, Jane_Smith, my group and I have always voted in favor of fluff rather then crunch, as none of us are really munchkins. That, and most of us are too vain to play something 'ugly' like an orc. :smallbiggrin:

As for fast healing on a LA+1 race? Well, I think it's rather powerful, but if the old, old Warcraft D20 books are any indication, their jungle trolls had Fast Healing 1 and some other boosts to Str and Con while retaining only a single LA. While I see very little problem with it (especially with fire vulnerability there), I should likely allow someone more learned of balanced things answer that.

arguskos
2009-06-18, 01:14 PM
Meh, i find it odd having str/con is so broken when people complain about martial classes being to underpowered mid/late games anyway. But, whatever, gave orcs +2 wisdom instead of +2 constitution. :P

Im considering making a few more, mainly im thinking Gnolls, Ogres, Derro, Lizardfolk, Trolls, etc.

Out of curiosity... is it even possible to give a la 0 race, even if its like the dwarf and BORDERLINE +1 la, Fast Healing equal to their con bonus with fire vulnerability as a trait? Aka, trolls. Been tossing that idea in my head for a while to make them a large-sized, regeneration, +0 la race... seems nearly impossible, i know, but id like to attempt it..
Point the first: yes, in theoretical games, spellcasting is borked so hard, martial classes need every bonus they can get. Most games AREN'T that way. I've been playing since 3.0 was released, and martial characters typically outshine casters in my games (not due to house rules really, I'm not completely sure why). Making them better? Not always a great idea. Just our 2cp. If it's the other way in yours, keep it your way. :smallwink:

Point the second: I'd... doubt it. They'd need to have some SEVERE drawbacks. Here's a rough sketch I would think works for a LA +0 troll:
+2 Str, -4 Int, -4 Cha
Large size
Fast Healing 1/4 HD
Fire Vulnerability

That way, you have a fast healing, large combat brute who is just that: a brute. He's not very smart or likable, but he breaks things really well.

Cieyrin
2009-06-18, 01:50 PM
These do look pretty good, though I should say that there is a supplement in the Pathfinder Chronicles line, specifically Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Monsters Revisited, that talks about the three goblin subtypes and orcs, among other things. They're also fairly cheap, as d20 supplements go, so a good deal both crunch and fluff-wise =3.

As for the races themselves, I do have a couple thoughts on them. I agree that the Changeling should have a choice about their ability score choice and I don't think the same of Aasimar and Tieflings. They aren't necessarily of human stock and the previous stats for them was pretty fitting, the Tiefling's especially. The Aasimar are a little more difficult, given they only have stat boosts in their original incarnation. I'd probably go for a Dex penalty, if anything, as they're not particularly frail, weak or dumb. Given their predilection towards running pell-mell into battle in full plate, it would make sense that they're covering up for a lack of reflexes to get out of the way of an incoming blow. Just my thoughts on that.

Another thing with Tieflings is why they can't have Darkness as a spell-like, given Drow get it? The Darkness line of spells got nerfed in Pathfinder, anyways, so that anybody with Darkvision can still see through it, even through a Deeper Darkness, which feels kinda wrong to me. Drow have a 2nd, 1st and 0 level spell-like, so what's wrong w/ Tieflings having a 2nd, 1st and 2 0s? Tieflings don't have that much else going for them, especially since the planetouched aren't native outsiders anymore.

Now, Orcs. Strength and Constitution is a pretty good mix. I say they keep it and take a penalty to Charisma, as well, as orcs aren't the most personable or smart critters around. They understand one thing: strength is power. Plus, orcs have never had strong arcane traditions, so having those stats hurt doesn't really hurt their only casters, clerics and druids. Sure, they can't rebuke quite as well as others but orcs probably aren't that worried about the undead when there's conquest to be had and corpses don't tend to carry much in the way of pocket change or other raidable prospects, anyways.

Goblins I'm not sure about. Are they really endowed with the common sense to get the hell out when the **** hits the fan or are they more mentally agile to realize that a tactical retreat is in order to maximize raiding potential later on? The second is more of a hobgoblin thing, so perhaps you got it right, there. I do take issue with them having a bonus to all perception checks, as goblins are hardly masters of their environment and keeping control of situational changes. I could see them being able to notice smells and sounds, though. They're twitchy little boogers and live in subpar environments where the ability to detect whether their next meal has spoiled or is otherwise unfit to dine on (even for a goblin, given what they'll eat) is a necessity.

Bugbears need some loving, though, again, they seem a bit too good. Bugbears are cunning critters, which, when coupled with their natural strength and speed, makes them natural thugs and bandits. They aren't dumb beasties but they're definitely not hobgoblin level, either. I'd almost say put a -4 into Charisma, as bugbears don't negotiate, they ambush you, rip out your spleen and then loot your corpse. Sure, this means they're not as intimidating as they could be but it balances out with their Predatory ability, which I don't see why you couldn't up to +4 to really ensure they are fearsome, as they should be.

Other than those remarks, I think the races look fairly balanced. Again, I would definitely recommend picking up a copy of Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Monsters Revisited, as there is some good stuff in there, like racial variants on many of the monsters to let you keep using them into the mid-levels, as well as feat support to help the gobbos fit into their positions as raiders and boogeymen, rather than as cannon fodder. The only sure thing I remember from having a look through it was a bugbear feat to track creatures by the scent of their fear, which is pretty badass.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

EDIT: Just noticed some new posts above and I would LOVE to see Pathfinder Gnolls. Gnolls are my favorite feral race and it would be badass to see them kicking it with some normal PCs. The only thing currently holding them back is the racial hit dice, which I feel is fairly easy to drop and scale back some of their abilities while keeping their flavor to be on par with the other combat brute type races.

Set
2009-06-18, 01:59 PM
Neat stuff. Bugbears are sweet indeed! Any thoughts on Kobolds or Lizardfolk (with much reduced natural armor, one would assume...).

For planetouched, I'd consider some text as to what happens when an Aasimar or Tiefling takes a class with an alignment aura, such as Paladin, Blackguard or (evil or good) Cleric. Do the evil and good auras of a Tiefling Paladin cancel each other out, leaving her detecting as 'neutral,' or does she detect as *both* good and evil at the same time? Either option has story potential. :)

For the Troll idea, the Fast Healing could be made something weaker even than Fast Healing 1. An LA+0 Trollkin could have Fast Healing 1/10, and restore 1 hp per minute (except vs. fire and acid), for instance. Add the ability to auto-stabilize, and the 'regeneration' would be useful, and fairly balanced. (I vaguely recall a Trollblood race option in 2nd edition. The Complete Viking's Handbook, perhaps?)

Some text in the Changeling change shape power that clarifies that this represents an actual physical transformation, and not an illusory effect (as the comparison to Disguise Self implies) might be useful.

Another possible power (perhaps as a Feat or part of a racial progression level) for Changelings might be minor shifting, to grant them a +2 to any physical attribute roll (or perception roll?), or physical attribute based skill check (such as Swimming, Climbing, Stealth, etc.) if the Changeling can take a full-round action to prepare themselves first. While altered in this way, the Changeling's form would be specialized, and they would have -1 to all other physical Ability checks or physical ability-based Skill checks (with the exception of checks based on the attribute in question).

The Changeling sees a steep wall ahead of her, and takes a moment to adjust her mass, strengthen her arms and legs and roughen her fingers and toes for that specific challenge. She'll have a -1 to Jump, Perception, Stealth, Swim, etc. and a -1 to generic Dexterity and Constitution checks while she is 'optimized for Climbing,' but will get a +2 to her Climb check.

Set
2009-06-18, 02:01 PM
Along this vein, here's my take on the Arcana Unearthed races, Pathfinderized. (http://www.skiltair.com/Ian/Index_pathfinderized%20AU%20races.htm)

I went the route of making some of the racial level abilities into feats that the race alone could take (and making them strictly better than a standard feat, in most cases), since I didn't want to incorporate the idea of racial levels at that time.

Not all of the races got a +2/+2/-2 build, as I counted a bonus feat or natural armor bonus as a suitable replacement for a +2. I'd do the same with a Pathfinderized Kobold, most likely, giving them +2 Dex, -2 Str and +1 Natural Armor, with no bonus or penalty to Int, Wis or Cha.

For a Lizardfolk, I'd go as far as allowing them a +2 Natural Armor in place of a single +2 to one attribute, but higher than that and I wouldn't feel too comfortable with allowing them as LA+0 playable races (unless I went the route of not allowing them to wear actual armor, in which case a +4 NA wouldn't be out of line).

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 02:11 PM
Well, I was thinking for troll...

Troll Racial Traits;
- +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma. Strolls are strong, and have a predatory sense of perception of their surroundings, but are cruel and foul to everyone around them.
- Large: Trolls, as large sized creatures, gain a -1 size penalty on attack rolls, armor class, and take a -4 size penalty to Stealth checks.
- Normal Speed: Trolls have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Trolls can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Natural Weapons: Trolls gain a bite attack as a natural weapon that deals 1d4 + 1/2 their strength modifier in piercing damage, and a pair of claws that deal 1d6 + their strength modifier in slashing damage.
- Fast Healing: Trolls with at least 1 or more hit points regain a number of hit points each round equal to their Constitution modifier (if positive), to a minimum of 1 hit point. Damage taken by acid or fire sources cannot be recovered by this ability. A troll can use a full round action to reattached a severed limb, and this healing allows a troll to regrow a severed limb after a full 8 hours of rest. This time resting does not have to be consecutive.
- Troll Vulnerabilities:Trolls take +50% damage from all sources of acid or fire damage.
- Weapon Training: Trolls are proficient with battleaxes, greataxes, javelins, spears and treat any weapon with the word "troll" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Trolls begin play speaking Common and Giant. Trolls with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnoll, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of trolls is barbarian or ranger. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.



Also; id like to add -

Im keeping the abilities to +2/+2/-2 or +2 to a single one of their choice. Thats just how pathfinder did it, its balanced, it works. Im not going to give them +2/-2, or +2/+2/-2/-2. Im sorry, thats just a no.

As for aasimers - i gave them +2 diplomacy (to show their divine spark of charisma) and +2 to sense motive (to show their enhanced judgment). I gave tieflings +2 bluff to show their way of innate skills with weaseling out of danger or loopholes in deals, etc, and a +2 bonus to sleight of hand for their innate sense of greed. The reason i let them have the +2 to any ability? Was because not all demons and angels are alike. Their are BRUTE-like outsiders, DEXTEROUS-like outsiders, TOUGH-like outsiders, SPELL CASTING-like based outsiders, etc. This way they can give themselves a +2 bonus in whatever 'fluff' they want. If i wanted a succubus-lined tiefling, +2 charisma. If i wanted a hound archon-lined aasimar, +2 strength. You get the idea.
Also, yes, they are human based. Why the bloody flippin hell do you think theirs different stats for tiefling-like orcs (races of faerun), dwarves (fiend folio), halflings (fiend folio), and elves (races of faerun) in so many supplements? Like the Fey'ri? Tieflings and aasimars are humans. Sorry to burst your bubble. :P It even says so in Races of Destiny for the tiefling/aasimar part in the back.

arguskos
2009-06-18, 02:15 PM
Well, I was thinking for troll...

Troll Racial Traits;
- +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence. Trolls are swift and tough, and move like feral animals. However, they crude and limited in foresight.
- Large: As a large size creature, trolls gain a -1 size penalty to attack rolls, armor class, and a -4 penalty to Stealth checks. They also gain a +4 bonus to Grapple combat maneuvers, double carrying capacity compared to medium creatures, and increased reach with all attacks.
- Normal Speed: Trolls have a base speed of 30 feet.
- Darkvision 60 ft.: Trolls can see in the dark up to a range of 60 feet.
- Natural Armor: Trolls have a thick, warty and scar-covered skin that grants them a +1 natural armor bonus to their AC.
- Natural Weapons: Trolls gain a bite attack as a natural weapon that deals 1d4 + 1/2 their strength modifier in piercing damage, and a pair of claws that deal 1d6 + their strength modifier in slashing damage.
- Fast Healing: Trolls with at least 1 or more hit points regain a number of hit points each round equal to their Constitution modifier (if positive), to a minimum of 1 hit point. Damage taken by acid or fire sources cannot be recovered by this ability. A troll can use a full round action to reattached a severed limb, and this healing allows a troll to regrow a severed limb after a full 8 hours of rest. This time resting does not have to be consecutive.
- Troll Vulnerabilities:Trolls take double damage from all sources of acid or fire damage.
- Weapon Training: Trolls are proficient with battleaxes, greataxes, javelins, spears and treat any weapon with the word "troll" in its name as a martial weapon.
- Languages: Trolls begin play speaking Common and Giant. Trolls with high intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Draconic, Dwarven, Elemental, Giant, Gnoll, Orcish.
- Favored Class: The favored class of trolls is barbarian or ranger. This choice must be made at 1st level and cannot be changed.
If that's what you go with, I'd call it LA 1 to be safe. They get +Con, Fast Healing, limb regeneration, good weapons profiencies, an AC bonus, 3 natural attacks, AND Large size. All that in exchange for -2 Int and double damage from fire/acid. Which can be offset with a pair of feats. Right. I can only presume this is LA 1.

If you want it to drop to LA 0, then lose the AC bonus, +Con, and maybe weaken the attacks some. I'd give them a Cha penalty as well, since trolls aren't exactly likable. :smallwink:

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 02:27 PM
Hmm, no on the -2 cha and -2 int. Only one -2. Hows about...

I lose the +1 natural armor... lets say they have soft-flesh despite their bulk? I toss the +2 con and give them +2 str instead?

Im not that concerned with the natural attacks - considering you get -5 penaltys on your secondary natural attacks, and you cant use claw attacks when holding anything. Reach is one thing, however.

Edit: Also note above i added the first series of racial feats for humans.

Edit 2: Edited the above racial traits for trolls. Gave them +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence, tossed the natural armor.

arguskos
2009-06-18, 02:42 PM
Hmm, no on the -2 cha and -2 int. Only one -2. Hows about...

I lose the +1 natural armor... lets say they have soft-flesh despite their bulk? I toss the +2 con and give them +2 str instead?

Im not that concerned with the natural attacks - considering you get -5 penaltys on your secondary natural attacks, and you cant use claw attacks when holding anything. Reach is one thing, however.

Edit: Also note above i added the first series of racial feats for humans.
Fair enough. Still pretty damn strong IMO, but it's less OMGWTFBBQ powerful now.

Cieyrin
2009-06-18, 02:49 PM
Hmph, fine, crazy Race of Destiny and their humans mating w/ about anything to create new subraces. =p

I suppose I can see not messing w/ the stat boosts with the planetouched, as now I do recall Races of Destiny making it canon that the planetouched are human descended (even if the other planetouched you mention are all from the Broken Realms =p). If you wanna run 'em as having that human versatility, all the more power to 'em.

I rescind my stat changes for the orcs, which I think were better before, as now they have the same stats as their half-brethren. Con bonuses are hardly game-breaking, so + Str, Con, - Int makes more sense and differentiates them from the half breeds.

I still hold to my assertion for bugbears, though perhaps not at a greater minus. Bugbears are defined by their cunning and physique. From the old MM, they have a Charisma penalty, not an Intelligence penalty. Plus, the Intimidate bonus still makes them better on average than others at pushing things smaller than them around, anyways.

Goblins should still not have a bonus to all perception checks, probably only smell and then either taste or hearing.

Finally, there's a misprint in Changeling movement, which says human.

As for the Troll, they're a little too uber, I think. Being larger gives them a host of bonuses which could be equitable to a stat boost. Just a +Con, -Int w/ being large size would probably balance there. Dropping natural armor and half con bonus to fast healing would probably work. Vulnerability generally means +50% damage, not double. The natural attacks don't need damage types, as they're already classified in the MM. Bites do all damage and claws do piercing and slashing.

Them's my 2 coppers, little tarnished perhaps. Take as you will.

EDIT: Oh, and the size bonus changed in Pathfinder as well. Your Combat Manuever Bonus, which is used for anything, has the size bonus naturally added in, which is just +1 for being large.

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 03:09 PM
Ah, thank you Cieyrin for the typo-finding/etc. ^^ Advice taken and changes made;

Changling: Now has Changeling speed. :P

Goblins: Now only has a +2 bonus to sound, smell and taste-based perception checks.

Bugbears: Switched -2 Intelligence with -2 Charisma, as fitting for their rogue/cunning tendencies and general attitude/personality.

Orcs: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence. If anything, it may be a little strong, but, hell, your right, i want them to be somewhat different then half-orcs.

Trolls: I tossed the natural armor, made it +2 str/+2 wis/-2 cha. I suppose they have a somewhat cunning predatory intelligence, and they do smell/act like bastards (:P as we have seen from their internet cousins!)... Without a bonus to con, they get a MAX of 4 fast healing at 1st level (18 con), and if they do that their nerfing their own strength/dexterity, so it balances out well enough considering at level 1 a wizard's burning hands will hit them for 2-8 damage instantly they cant regenerate, and flasks of alchemist fire give them nightmares, etc. Also lowered the bonus damage taken from fire/acid to +50%, as normal vulnerabilities.

Morty
2009-06-18, 03:14 PM
Is there any particular reason goblins only get +2 to perception on smell/sound centered checks but hobgoblins and bugbears simply get +2 to perception? Seems a bit inconsistent. Not to mention I don't really know what's so wrong with goblinoids just getting +2 on perception. They get pretty much nothing in basic 3.5 D&D, it's only right to give them some stuff in Pathfinder where all races got a boost.

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 03:25 PM
Well, the reason goblins and varags get better perception checks, is because hobgoblins -bred- goblins, bugbears, and varags via magic, experimenting, etc.

Goblins were -created- as fodder. Fast breeding infantry, low cost to keep fed/occupied, and were perfect for scouting and sending behind enemy lines to cause chaos.

Bugbears were created for shock troopers and elite assassins/ambush/geurille warfare units. Seriously, give one of those a large maul/greatsword/spiked chain? Fun will be had.

Varags were bred for trackers, patrols, and guards. Not to mention vanity-pets for the higher ranking hobgoblins; varags were created directly by crossbreeding goblins with worgs + magic. (yay for beastility? -_-) But, ya, you get the picture why goblins/varags get better perception checks over hobs and bugs.

Morty
2009-06-18, 03:33 PM
Well, the reason goblins and varags get better perception checks, is because hobgoblins -bred- goblins, bugbears, and varags via magic, experimenting, etc.

Goblins were -created- as fodder. Fast breeding infantry, low cost to keep fed/occupied, and were perfect for scouting and sending behind enemy lines to cause chaos.


:smallconfused: That's the actual canon in Pathfinder? Also, the way it's written, goblins get worse Perception checks than hobgobs, because the former only get +2 with sound, smell on taste, whereas the latter simply get a +2 bonus.

imp_fireball
2009-06-18, 03:39 PM
I have to disagree with your assessment on goblins, personally I would have given them +2 to Intelligence, since the idea of a Goblin being actually intelligent enough to know how weak he is and run away makes sense to me. I've always envisioned goblins as the intelligent buggers of the goblinoid family.

That would actually be wisdom, not intelligence. Wisdom allows them to perceive a weakness and know when to run away.

Although I always imagined that running away and knowing how weak an opponent was was more of an instinctual reaction for goblins, not anything to do with being more wise than humans.

Also, a +2 INT would go with the tinker archetype of goblins - intuitive, quick learners. -2 CHA would also imply that they were eccentric.

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 03:42 PM
Hobgoblins dont get a +2 straight bonus to perception...? Hob's and bug's get +2 to all SOUND-based perception checks only. Goblins get sound/taste/smell. Varags get -all-.

Morty
2009-06-18, 03:54 PM
Argh. x.x
That's what I get for not reading closely enough. *smacks self* Sorry for that, all's clear now.
But my other question remains: is "hobgoblins bred other goblinoids" official canon in Pathfinder?

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 04:01 PM
Honestly no clue, i have the -setting- book that gives a LITTLE info on them, and for the most part they dont go into much detail on them.

I got most of my information from 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, and other off-source books. Im pretty much 'guessing' in pathfinder their at least similar.

Edit: Also, dwarf racial feats added above. Iron Blooded, Born of the Forge, and Grizzled Veteran.

Morty
2009-06-18, 04:06 PM
I see. I was wondering if it's been introduced in Pathfinder - I know that it's in 4ed rules - or if it's your interpretation. Although generally, I noticed that in time, the goblinoid hierarchy in D&D material shifted from "goblins -> hobgoblins -> bugbears" to "hobgoblins order goblins and bugbears around" in 3rd edition as well.
And the dwarven racial feats seem alright, although Born of the Forge might not see much play.

Jane_Smith
2009-06-18, 04:25 PM
Well, reason for blood of the forge is because crafting "RARELY" sees ANY play. This gives a dwarf pc some small reason to put ranks in a craft check, flex that +2 racial bonus around, etc and make some stuffz during his down time.

Considering in a single day they can make progress by gold, and an additional +2 bonus... a level 1 dwarf with 12 intelligence would get a +9 bonus to his craft checks, who takes a 10 on the check, can make 19 x DC under 19 = X gp progress. Thats at least 100+ gold a day worth of items... thats enough to arm a towns local militia or peasants with new swords, etc which can help in large war-fare based games.

Also, for npcs alone it helps the pcs. They go to a dwarf to repair their stuff or make them something special, they wont have to wait weeks.

As for the goblins, i kinda like the flavor that hobs > all other gobs and were the 'first' true goblins. Kinda fits the entire military, disciplined, ex-super-giant race theme.

Cieyrin
2009-06-19, 11:33 AM
Hmm, I have one final thought on trolls, in that fast healing probably doesn't necessitate limb reattachment/regeneration, especially how infrequently that occurs at low levels. I'd almost make true troll regeneration a racial feat for them to take, given they have more feat slots to take advantage of in Pathfinder and i'm sure that some trolls would like to claim that true troll heritage. I'd recommend the feat to have a min base Fort mod, somewhere between +6 to +8, i'd say, making it achievable in the mid levels. Hell, I'll write it up.

Trollish Inheritance
Having delved into ancient troll bloodlines, you've found a connection with a powerful ancestor and gained a lost gift: true troll regeneration.
Prerequisites: Troll only, Con 15, Endurance, Toughness, Base Fort Save +6
Benefits: Your racial fast healing becomes an equal amount of regeneration. You take normal damage from fire and acid. You can reattach limbs as a full round action and regrow missing limbs after a full 8 hours of rest. Severed parts will die if left unattended.
Normal: You can't reattach or regrow limbs with fast healing. You normally take normal damage, not subdual damage.

Much as I don't like the Toughness feat, it's not so bad in Pathfinder, as it's wrapped Improved Toughness into it and it also fits, more or less.

My other thought is on Born of the Forge. Dear lord, dwarves are suddenly crafting machines, going up 2 steps in coinage value in terms of work done. That's a massive leap in productivity of a scale of x100. Given how slow crafting normally is, perhaps it's warranted, given how limited the returns are on just raising the normal DCs. Not sure how I really feel about that, as that feels like the power of a dwarven assembly line, not just a single dwarf. Maybe it would be better to just go up to gold per week, silver per day, at least in the case of metal and stone working? I don't necessarily see master dwarven woodworkers, y'know? Sure, they may be good at it but that's more of an elven thing, who have an affinity for wood. Maybe they can work up to platinum per week and gold per day, after getting skill focus and getting adequate skill ranks in the specific skill.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.