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alchemyprime
2009-06-17, 05:42 PM
Challenge: Stat up a 3.5 dragon using whatever tools are at your disposal and make it easy to use without a library of books.

Entrys: In this thread in a spoiler block. Up to three entries per member.

Deadline: July 1st, 2009!

Okay, as the title indicates, this is a Monster Contest.

As you know, in 3.5, dragons were not prestatted. You had to make them. I mean the reds, the silvers, the blues, none of those dragon turtles...

That is your challenge. You have until 1st of July (extending the deadline from the original 24th of June). Stat up a dragon. Any CR, any fluff. Use as many WotC, Green Ronin, Paradigm Press, or Mongoose Publishing books you want, as well as Dragon or Dungeon magazines. If you use something else, go for it. JYou know what, use ANY ust note where the things are from and format it so that a guy with just the core 3 can use it easily.



The Judging:


Fluff: The more original or invocative the fluff of the dragon, the better. Possible Points: 35
Crunch: Whatever dragon seems the best statted out with the coolest powers to toss at players for its CR. Possible Points: 35
Ease of Access: If a DM with only the core books can pick up your dragon and use it, you get a lot of points. So all that extra stuff, make notes about it. Possible Points: 15
Sheer Awesomeness: Exactly what it says on the tin. Possible Points: 15



The prizes will be thus:


Best CR 1-10 Dragon (Whichever of these gets closest to 100)
Best CR 11-20 Dragon (Whichever gets closest to 100)
Best CR 20+ dragon (Whichever gets closest to 100)
Most Awesome Fluffed Dragon (Highest Fluff Score)
Best Templated Dragon (Highest to 100 that uses a template and did not already win a Best CR or Best Overall)
Best Munchkinized Dragon (Most highly optimized dragon)
Best Overall Dragon (Highest General Score. THis winner will not win a CR prize.)


The Running

Castor and Pollux (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6377600&postcount=32), a pair of twin Wing Dragons. ECL 15, separate CRs 13.

Lilatanthiss Matrikaless (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6359252&postcount=26), a dragon of the Diamond Throne, updated for 3.5. She's a peculiar dragon, to be sure. CR 14.

Rosenrot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6373481#post6373481), a Spirit Dragon. CR 22.




Who shall challenge this? Who's beast shall reign supreme!

DracoDei
2009-06-17, 06:03 PM
I might see about coming up with a Wing Dragon for this...

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-06-17, 06:35 PM
All shall fall beneath the gaze of the Crown Dragon!

When do we have to have it done by?

alchemyprime
2009-06-17, 06:44 PM
Until Wednesday June 24th July the 1st. I won't accept dragons past that. :smallwink:

Xefas
2009-06-17, 07:27 PM
I'll attempt to make something for this. I have something in mind, at least. Do we post the dragon here, or is there somewhere else to do so?

EDIT: I'm not good with names, but I'm planning to make a mechanical dragon that hails from the Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus. Inevitable-Dragon-esque

alchemyprime
2009-06-17, 07:31 PM
Post it here in a spoiler block please.

Innis Cabal
2009-06-17, 07:56 PM
Will be posting

Araktalush'Kariuraa the Shadow Hammer

Gorgondantess
2009-06-17, 08:30 PM
Ha-hah! An excellent chance for me to show off....
DRACTHULHU!TM

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-06-17, 08:39 PM
Actually, wait, a pseudodragon probably isn't the best idea.

Humph.

Celebrochan
2009-06-18, 11:36 AM
May we use the dragons from Arcana Evolved and reverse engineer it back to 3.5?

alchemyprime
2009-06-18, 12:38 PM
Celebrochan: I suppose... but make it 3.5 user firendly!

alchemyprime
2009-06-21, 11:46 AM
RAWR!

(That's Draconic for Bump)

Zeta Kai
2009-06-21, 03:12 PM
Can this be a dragon that was posted before? I made a nice dragon for one of my VUAM contests, & I'd like to submit it.

DracoDei
2009-06-21, 03:28 PM
Can I do a pair of identical twins who are never far from each other?

alchemyprime
2009-06-21, 09:18 PM
@ Zeta Kai: Yes. Dracthulhu was posted before I beleive.

@ DracoDei: Sure... if you think you can pull off the crunch for it.

DracoDei
2009-06-21, 09:55 PM
You mean doing two full character sheets instead of one? Since they are identical twins and have a very specific combat style, I can copy a lot of it from one to the other.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-22, 07:02 AM
@ Zeta Kai: Yes. Dracthulhu was posted before I beleive.

I know, I posted it. :smallamused:

But that wasn't what I was going to enter, unless multiple entries were allowed. I was actually planning on doing something else...

alchemyprime
2009-06-22, 11:02 AM
@ DracoDei: Yeah, I figured. I just say, make it however you want just make sure it is a true dragon (ie. from a breed with age categories) and that it's awesome.

@ ZetaKai: I'lll look at something else. That'd be fine.

DracoDei
2009-06-22, 11:23 AM
The twins will be Wing Dragons which are, indeed, true dragons.

alchemyprime
2009-06-22, 12:50 PM
Ah. Didn't know you were keeping the wing dragon concept too. Okay, yeah. Go for it.

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-06-22, 08:32 PM
Alrighty. Hey DracoDrei, I spent hours looking for this one template in every single book I have, when I could have just clicked your sig. Permission to use the Empty Skin template?

DracoDei
2009-06-22, 11:40 PM
Hey DracoDrei, I spent hours looking for this one template in every single book I have, when I could have just clicked your sig. Permission to use the Empty Skin template?

You certainly may. That is why I post them after all... all I ask is play-test reports fed back to me... but that doesn't apply in this case until and unless your idea gets used. And may I also say that I feel complimented that it took you that long to realize that it wasn't an commercially published monster (well... until and unless Victorious Press is ready to move Monsters in the Playground forward).

I do find myself wondering if you are going to play to the fact that they have an INT of 5 or somehow alter that with another template stacked on top, or maybe just making an exception to that? I look forward to finding that out when you post it.

alchemyprime
2009-06-24, 02:34 PM
I'm just bumping the thread. THough I'd love to see what work has been done so far...

Zeta Kai
2009-06-24, 02:51 PM
I'll be posting two entries ASAP.

A question though: Do you want the monsters posted here, or is a link elsewhere sufficient?

alchemyprime
2009-06-24, 03:37 PM
I'll be posting two entries ASAP.

A question though: Do you want the monsters posted here, or is a link elsewhere sufficient?

Um... link is sufficient, but I would prefer to have a stat block in [spoiler] tags here in the thread. But you don't risk losing points if you just link it.

Celebrochan
2009-06-24, 04:33 PM
Lilatanthiss Matrikaless (Lilat for short) is a dragon from an alternate prime material plane where the colour of a dragon’s scales have no meaning, all dragons from her plane of existence are the same species. Each individual dragon of her type develops a different breath weapon based on personal preferences. Lilat has a mixture of bright blue, purple and golden scales.

Lilat has formed a contract with the City of New Keshi. In exchange for her protection (both from her own activities and any invading armies) the people of New Keshi offer her tribute, in the form of live stock, labor and gold. Because of her patronage the city has grown quite rich for the region, while surrounding cities have had their fortunes decline.

The People of New Keshi are helpful to Lilat and see their contract with her as the cause of their good fortune. Anyone asking too many questions regarding Lilat is likely to attract the attention of the authorities (low level paladins). Lilat sees the city as a long term investment worth protecting but not at any substantial risk to herself.

(Let me know if I made any mistakes :smallsmile:)



(Arcana Evolved Dragon converted to 3.5)

Lilatanthiss Matrikaless, Young Adult Alt. Prime Dragon
Size/Type: Huge Dragon
Hit Dice: 20d12+100 (230 hp)
Initiative:+7
Speed: 60 ft., fly 200 ft. (poor), Swim 60 feet
Armor Class: 38* (-2 size, +19 natural,+3 dexterity, +4 shield spell, Ring of protection +4), touch 19*, flat-footed 35*
*with shield spell active, subtract 4 from all values otherwise.

Base Attack/Grapple: +20/+38
Attack: +28
Full Attack: Bite (2d6+10), 2 Claws (1d8+10), 2 Wings (1d6+10), Tail Slap (1d8+10)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: 40’ Cone of Acid (DC27) (10d10), Frightful Presence DC 24, Spells (As fifth level wizard)
Special Qualities: Dragon Traits (Darkvision 120 ft., Low light vision, Blind Sense 60’, Immunity to sleep and paralysis), Damage Reduction 5/magic, Spell Immunity 24, Immunity to Acid
Saves: Fort+ 21, Reflex +16, Will +20
Abilities: Str 31, Dex 17, Con 21, Int 18, Wis 19, Cha 18

Skills: Appraise +16, Bluff +23, Diplomacy +29, Hide +16, Concentration +26, Knowledge (Arcana +26)((The Planes+16) (Architecture+11) (Nature +11) (Royalty +11) (History +11), Move Silently +24, Sense Motive +24, Spot +24, Spell Craft +26

Feats: Ability Focus (Breath), Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Craft Wondrous Item, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Scribe Scroll
Environment:

Challenge Rating:14(?)
Treasure: Double Standard, Plus ring of protection +4, Metamagic rod of extend.
Alignment: lawful evil or Neutral (See the Non-Aligned section below)

Combat
Lilat avoids combat if at all possible, preferring to parlay and negotiate. If combat seems unavoidable then she will not hesitate to strike preemptively.

If reduced to half of her hit points or less she will attempt to flee, either by flying away, hiding underwater or assuming Gaseous form.

Breath Weapon (Su)
Lilat’s breath weapon is a cone of acid. Lilat must wait 1d4 rounds after using her breath weapon to use it again.

Water Breathing (Ex)
Lilat may breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use her breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

Non-Aligned (Ex)
For all intents and purposes Lilat is mechanically considered a Neutral alignment even though her philosophy would label her a Lawful Evil individual.

Spell-Like Abilities
Lilat possesses the ability to "alter self" once a day with a caster level of 20. Lilat is able to assume the forms of other dragons with this ability and assumes the form of a black dragon when hunting the herds of neighboring towns.

Spells
Lilat possesses spell casting ability equivalent to that of a 5th level wizard

Most commonly Prepared
0th Resistance, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mending
1st Shield, Charm Person, Obscuring mist
2nd Protection from Arrows, Darkness (to cancel out light spells)
3rd Gaseous form

Her Lair
Lilat’s lair includes a “greeting lair” where she meets humans who come to see her. This lair also exists so that if humans do intend to steal from her that the greater portion of her treasure will be untouched.

Her main lair is located through a passage under the lake in her greeting lair. Her main lair liberally uses an over abundance phantom trap spells. The over use of the phantom trap spell is meant to lull intruders into a false sense of security before they are suddenly struck by a deadly trap. She has few mechanical traps but the ones she does have are especially lethal.

She has memorized the type, value and location of every single coin and item in her collection. She has several potions of healing stashed through out her lair along with scrolls and wondrous items that she has crafted.

Guarding her greeting lair are also several of the guards from the city of Keshi. Stats for these guards are below. From the point of view of these guards, Lilat is the protector of their city, the mayor listens to her advice, and she has always seems to have only the best of intentions towards them. Lilat works hard to keep a good public image and it requires direct proof of her wrong doing to convince these guards that she is something other than what she appears. The city is contractually obligated to have these guards present to protect Lilat’s hoard from thieves, render any aid Lilat may require in the defense of her home and to keep people from accidently wandering in to her cave.

Guards
Size/Type:
Medium Human
Hit Dice:
4d10+1 (24) (Paladin 2 / fighter 2)
Initiative:+1
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 22-26 (23-27 on dodge target) (+8 armor,+1 dexterity, enhancement +1, +2 shield, +0 to +4 combat expertise, +1 dodge)), touch 12, flat-footed 21
Base Attack/Grapple: +4
Attack: +9
Full Attack: Long Sword +9 (1d8 +4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Smite Evil
Special Qualities: Detect Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on hands (4 hp)
Saves: Fort+ 8, Reflex +2, Will +4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 15
Skills: Diplomacy +7 , Heal +5, Intimidate +2, Sense Motive +5, Swim +4 (-8 with armor penalty)
Feats: Blind fighting, Combat expertise, Dodge, Iron will, Weapon focus (long sword)
Environment: Lilat’s greeting lair
Organization: There are five groups of four patrolling the greeting lair
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Long sword +1, Full plate +1, Shield +1, Boots of water walking
Alignment: lawful Good

All guards carry horns that are sounded if intruders are found in the lair. The other groups of patrolling guards will arrive 1d6 rounds after a horn is blown.

DracoDei
2009-06-24, 04:38 PM
Well... as is often heard on the inter-tubes: "I have been busy".

Just now put in a few hours of work on my twins and so here is your first look:

Castor (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=26962) and Pollux (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=26965) (These are no longer the lastest versions, see later in this thread for more a up-to-date and verbose version of each).

And, yes, I will (edit: probably) be giving them much more Draconic sounding names. The "Gemini Strike" feat I invented will allow them to take their turns simultaniously to use fly-by attack to gain flanking (and perhaps an extra 1d6 sneak attack) without exposing themselves to any serious counter-attack other than readied actions used to attack them as they fly past, usually in opposite directions. The arc vest + arcing chain shirt will allow them generate a 10d6 lightningbolt up to 30 feet long between the two of them, which gives them a similar option if the PCs group up to prevent effective flanking...

CR 10 each without the class levels gives CR 13 each with them, for a total Encounter level of 15.

Suggestions welcome.


EDIT: Lilat seems nothing to write home about so far... nice variations, but nothing really memorable.

alchemyprime
2009-06-24, 05:53 PM
@DracoDei: Please, post them as Monsters, not in Character Sheets.

Here's why. This is low on Ease of Access for both. A stat block (ie. what celebrochan posted) has a higher Ease of Acess. I'm just saying, for you own benefit, make it a stat block.

@ Celebrochan: Thanks for the entry. I'll post the link at the top of the page, and you are more than welcome to keep editing it until July 1st as you wish!

DracoDei
2009-06-24, 10:51 PM
I had already intended to transfer them to a more monster-type format unless I run out of time. The sheet does a lot of the calculations automatically which is why I am using it as a starting point.

Anything else?

alchemyprime
2009-06-24, 10:54 PM
@ DracoDei: Um... I suppose detail the feat in the information for the monster. Beyond that... I got nothing...

Zeta Kai
2009-06-26, 04:52 PM
Here is my entry into this contest. I bring you...


Rosenrot

DracoDei
2009-06-27, 10:28 AM
EDIT: This is an old post and, as such, it is against the forum rules to respond to it. If you have comments, then please PM me, or start a new thread with a link in it to this one.

Castor
Medium Dragon (Air)
Hit Dice: 12d12 + 3d4 + 45 (143 hp)
Initiative: + 9 (+5 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: 20 ft (4 squares), Fly 200 ft (Good), Swim 40 ft
Armor Class: 30 (+1 Bracers of Armor +1, +2 Mithrel Buckler +1, +5 Dex, +11 Natural, +1 Deflection), 16 touch, 30 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +13/+16
Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack: Bite +18 melee (1d8+3), 2 Claws +13/+12 melee (1d6+1), 2 Wings +13 melee (1d4+1) and 2 +14 ranged touch dropped/thrown objects if flying. (May replace any natural attack(s) with dropped/thrown objects held in that limb.)
OR
Bite +18 melee (1d8+3), Heavy Crossbow +1 +13 Ranged (1d10+1), 2 Wings +13 melee (1d4+1) and 2 +14 ranged touch dropped/thrown objects if flying. (May replace any natural attack(s) with dropped/thrown objects held in that limb.)
OR
Heavy Crossbow +1 +18 Ranged (1d10+1)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Limited Snatch, +2d6 Sneak Attack
Special Qualities: Breath Weapon, Dragon Traits, Fast Healing 1/10, Spell-casting, Spell-like Abilities (Including Create Air, and Expeditious Movement), Dogfight, Evasion, Fog Immunity, Heroic Idiocy, Improved Draconic Senses, Scent, Uncanny Dodge, Limited Snatch, Limited Spider Climb, Pride in Grace(OPTIONAL RULE), Unblinking, Wingclaws, Weather Master
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +14, Will +12 (+4 bonus vs Fear, or +8 bonus vs Fear when in combat and in the air)
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 21 (base 19), Con 16, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 25 (Base 21)
Skills: Balance +20 (+5 when not in air), Concentration +14, Knowledge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge(Geography) +9, Knowledge (Local) +9, Knowledge (Nature) +9, Knowledge (Nobility) +4, Knowledge (Religion) +4, Knowledge (The Planes) +4, Listen +6, Move Silently +20(+5 when not in air), Perform (Sky Painting) +9, Speak Language (2 skill points spent), Spellcraft +12, Spot +26 (plus penalty cancellation for telescope), Tumble +23(+8 when not in air or impacting), Use Magic Device +21
Feats: Dodge, ExpertiseB, Faster HealingB, Fly-by AttackB, HoverB, Gemini Strike, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Mobility, Spell Focus (Evocation), Weapon FinesseBB, Weapon Focus[Dropped/Thrown Object]B, WingoverB
Environment: Usually Any Open-Aired Surface (so no jungles or forests)
Organization: Castor and Pollux
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure:
Splash and other throwables: 20 vials of Acid, 1 small wine bottle of Acid (equivalent to 10 vials all using the same to-hit roll), 10 Vials of Holy Water, 20 vials of Alchemist's Fire, 10 Smoke-sticks (Each attached to a weighted miniature vial of alchemists fire that deals no splash damage, and only 1 point of fire damage on a direct hit)
Wands: Wand of Fireball (12 charges, heightened to level 4, Caster level 10), Wand of Entropic Shield 24 charges, 3 wands of Cure Light Wounds (10 charges each), Wand of Invisibility 5 charges, Wand of Greater Invisibility 43 charges, Wand of See Invisibility 13 charges
Potions, Oils, and similar: 5 potions of Greater Magic Fang, 5 vials of Silversheen, 3 potions of Cure Critical Wounds, 5 Anti-Toxin
Ammunition: 60 normal bolts, 20 Alchemical Silver Bolts, 40 Cold Iron Bolts, 15 Adamintine Bolts
Misc: Arc Vest, 1 scroll of True Haste, Telescope, Eyes of the Eagle, Gloves of Dexterity +2, Cloak of Charisma +4, 3 pairs of masterwork manacles, Mug Book, Spell Component Pouch, ink, pen, log-book
Alignment: Neutral Good

Spells per day: 6/7
Spells known:
Level 0: Detect Magic, Flare (DC 18), Light, Read Magic, Resistance
Level 1: Burning Hands (DC 19), Mage Armor, Shield

Pollux
Medium Dragon (Air)
Hit Dice: 12d12 + 3d6 + 45 (133 hp)
Initiative: + 7
Speed: 20 ft (4 squares), Fly 200 ft (Perfect), Swim 40 ft
Armor Class: 34 (+2 Bracers of Armor +2, +2 Mithrel Buckler +1, +11 Natural, +2 Deflection), 19 touch, 34 flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple: +14/+17
Attack: Bite +21 melee (1d8+3)
Full Attack:Bite +21 melee (1d8+3), 2 Claws +19/+18 melee (1d6+1), 2 Wings +19 melee (1d4+1) and 2 +20 ranged touch dropped/thrown objects if flying. (May replace any natural attack(s) with dropped/thrown objects held in that limb.) OR Bite +19 melee (1d8+3), Mighty [+3] Shortbow +1 +21/+17/+12 ranged (1d6+4), 2 Wings +19 melee (1d4+1) and 2 dropped/thrown objects if flying. (May replace any natural attack(s) with dropped/thrown objects held in that limb.)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Limited Snatch, +4d6 Sneak Attack
Special Qualities: Breath Weapon, Dragon Traits, Fast Healing 1/10, Spell-like Abilities (Including Create Air, and Expeditious Movement), Dogfight, Evasion, Fog Immunity, Heroic Idiocy, Improved Draconic Senses, Scent, Uncanny Dodge, Limited Snatch, Limited Spider Climb, Pride in Grace(OPTIONAL RULE), Trapfinding, Trap Sense +1, Unblinking, Wingclaws, Weather Master
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +21, Will +13 (+4 bonus vs Fear, or +8 bonus vs Fear when in combat and in the air)
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 24 (base 20), Con 16, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 17
Skills:Appraise +3, Balance +22(+7 when not in air), Diplomacy +8, Forgery +2, Intimidate +4, Knowledge (Local) +7, Knowledge (Nature) +1, Knowledge (Nobility) +1, Listen +23, Move Silently +25(+10 when not in air), Perform (Sky Painting) +21, Sense Motive +5, Speak Language (2 skill points spent), Spot +28, Tumble +25(+8 when not in air or crashing), Use Magic Device +21
Feats: Dodge, ExpertiseB, Faster HealingB, Fly-by AttackB, HoverB, Gemini Strike, Improved Toughness, Iron Will, Mobility, Multi-Attack, Weapon FinesseB, Weapon Focus[Dropped/Thrown Object]B, WingoverB
Environment: Usually Any Open-Aired Surface (so no jungles or forests)
Organization: Castor and Pollux
Challenge Rating: 13
Treasure:
Wands: 2 wands of Cure Light Wounds (23 charges each), Wand of Zone of Truth 30 charges, Wand of Cure Minor Wounds 47 charges
Splash and other throwables: 10 Smoke-sticks (Each attached to a weighted miniature vial of alchemists fire that deals no splash damage, 20 vials of Acid, 1 small wine bottle of Acid (equivalent to 10 vials all using the same to-hit roll), 10 Vials of Holy Water, 20 vials of Alchemist's Fire, 10 Smoke-sticks (Each attached to a weighted miniature vial of alchemists fire that deals no splash damage, and only 1 point of fire damage on a direct hit)
Potions, Oils, and similar: 5 potions of Greater Magic Fang, 5 vials of Silversheen, 3 potions of Cure Critical Wounds, 5 potions of Entropic Shield, 4 potions of Mage Armor, 4 potions of Shield, 5 Anti-Toxin
Ammunition: 80 normal arrows, 20 Alchemical Silver Arrows, 50 Cold Iron Arrows, 20 Adamintine Arrows
Misc: Arc Vest, 1 scroll of True Haste, Telescope, Eyes of the Eagle, Gloves of Dexterity +4, Pectoral of Maneuverability, Cloak of Protection +2, Mug Book, 1 pair of masterwork manacles.
Alignment: Neutral Good

Description and non-combat procedures:
Castor and Pollux are twin brothers who work as hired patrol dragons, mostly against raiders, although they also keep an eye out for wanted criminals and each have a mug book of the current most wanted. They are very well equipped by their employer, in addition to each having there own personal treasure which includes 1 scroll each that is capable of turning them into a whirling engine of destruction for a brief period of time. When on the job the Wing Dragon jocularity is totally surpressed in front of anyone outside the gaurd.
When on patrol they usually alternated disguising themselves as a cloud (With Castor providing half the volume, but Pollux doing most of the work in shaping the outside with his Perform(Sky Painting) skill to create a realistic "disguise") and drifting with the wind, and high speed, high altitude runs up wind to reset for another phase of drifting. If they are unsure of the intentions of a group they locate, Castor will burst out of the cloud with a greeting roar calculated to distract the targets as he turns his part of the cloud invisible and gathers it around him to approach, circling around to the opposite side of the group before closing range (note the movement limitations of the cloud). If he is satisfied, he will return, only turning his part of the cloud white again when they are at least half a mile distant. If not, he may give fair warning (but not a chance to back out) and then cast Zone of Truth from a wand.

Combat
When and if battle is joined against a small number of foes, they will ideally opaque their fogs and each occupy one(randomizing their position within the clouds each round to make it harder for melee fighters to seek them out, or for AoEs to hit them), exchanging positions to perform a Gemini strike on one target each round. While doing this they will arrange their respective angles and speeds of approach to make sure that any AoE that can hit both of them will also hit as many of their opponents as possible.
If opponents bunch up to prevent flanking and prove tough enough that standard fly-by attacks are inadvisable, they will use their vests of lightning to perform fly-by bolting attacks without exposing themselves to melee counter-attacks. Against large bodies of weaker foes, Pollux may lure them into surrounding him so that Castor can catch them in repeated fireballs, while Pollux uses his Expertise and Multi-attack feats to best effect and negates the fireballs with his Evasion and high reflex save.
If opponents rely on short term buff spells, especially if Quickened (remember Castor has Spellcraft and will be using it), then they may abandon their clouds and open range. In such a case, Castor may hand his crossbow of to Pollux to harry them with to draw out healing spells with the occasional hit from extreme range, while their own fast healing takes care of any damage they themselves may have sustained and the enemies buffs run out. With or without the crossbow attacks, they are willing to dog fleeing opponents for hours at a time, never allowing the range to be closed enough for spells to reach them, but never letting the enemy out of their sight even for 2 hours or slightly more if they are grievously wounded initially. When enemy buffs have run out and the twins are fully healed, they will attack again. If part of their quarry escapes by teleportation they will usually immediately attack the remainder, before the wizard or sorcerer can return for a second load (and probably even continue the attack even when and if they do). If all targets vanish at once they will split up to fly a spiraling search pattern eliminate the possibility of Dimension Door or other mid-range teleportation spells. If this fails they go for headquarters immediately to report the escapees. The scrolls of True Haste will be saved for a dire emergency such as preventing the imminent death of their brother or innocents (note the plural) or retrieving the corpse of their brother for return to life and preventing its looting (in that order of priority).

Dogfight (Ex): A Wing Dragon may use the tumble skill while airborne, substituting their flight speed for their ground movement rate in calculating how far they may move.

Fog Immunity (Su): Wing Dragons can see through any type of gas, liquid, or particulate matter as if it were clear. This includes magical fogs and effects, including its own breath weapon. (none of which stops them from seeing things they can see through with perfect clarity, but they can also see through it, and if that doesn't make sense, just keep repeating "It's Magic!" to yourself until it does). Note that if the predominant material limits the quality of vision, but the substance(s) suspended in it do not. Thus they could see through mud, provided it was over half water by volume, as well as they could see through water, but could not see through lava just because it had impurities in it.

Improved Draconic Senses (Ex): A dragon sees six times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and three times as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 180 feet, and blindsense that can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 90 feet. In the case of blindsense remember that opponents the dragon can't actually see still have total concealment against the dragon, and also that Create Air reduces the range of Blindsense to 60 feet (as well as imposing a -4 penalty to Listen checks within it).

Limited Spider Climb (Su): This works as per Spider Climb, except that movement is only 5 feet per round while climbing, and ANY solid surface can be attached to, not just one that a normal spider could climb. Any slickness short of that provided by Oil of Slipperiness does nothing to prevent this. Thus a Wing Dragon can land and cling to a Wall of Force (even upside down to an horizontal one), melting icy cliff, or just merely a wooden palisade. Note, however, that those last two might collapse under the dragon's weight. This ability is always active.

Pride in Grace (Ex): (Due to its complexity and the rareness that it will ever come up in most campaigns this rule is highly optional.)

This is not actually ability, rather it is a weakness. So much of a wing dragon's sense of self is wrapped up in its acrobatic ability that long lasting damage to their dexterity can eventually cause them to lose confidence and zest for life to a small but noticeable degree. Like almost any creature when a Wing Dragon is born it has a certain difference between its dexterity and its charisma. This amount might be positive, negative or zero. For a standard 'by the book' Wing Dragon this difference is zero. If a Wing Dragon's dexterity is ever permanently lower than this difference compared to the Wing Dragon's current permanent charisma then it must make a Will save every month. The DC of the save is 10 times the number of points that the dragon is low in the aforementioned calculation. If this save is failed the dragon loses a point of charisma until such time as the original deficit is recovered to the point where the original difference would not be violated by recovery of one or more points of charisma. At this point is recovers 1 point of charisma per month until the original difference is re-instated.
So in this case: Tornado is rolled up as a newly hatched wyrmling. The 3d6 for dexterity come up to a total of 13. To this is added the racial adjustment of +4 for a score of 17. The 3d6+4 for charisma come up to a total of 16. It seems Tornado is destined to be even more hyperactive and endearing than most of his brethren. His dexterity is 1 point higher than his charisma. This difference will be used as the standard throughout Tornado's life. Upon reaching the very young age category these scores increase by +2 each. So now we have Dexterity 19 and Charisma 18. If an enemy poisons Tornado, causing 2 points of permanent Dexterity drain (down to 17) then Tornado must make a DC 20 will save one month later if he doesn't get the effects of the poison reversed by that time. A failure reduces his charisma by one point (down to 17), and means that the DC drops to 10 for future months. A second failure would reduce Tornados charisma another point (leaving his with Dexterity 17 and Charisma 16, which is the "natural" difference between the two, meaning he has stabilized and needs to make no more saving throws). A year later, he finally manages to get a cleric to cast Restoration on him returning his Dexterity to 19. One month after this happy event he gains back a point of Charisma as his self-confidence surges with his return to his full potential of deftness of motion. A month after that, he is back to his original scores of Dexterity 19 and Charisma 18.


Unblinking (Ex): A wing dragon cannot be dazed, dazzled, blinded, or otherwise harmed by light. This includes these conditions brought upon by spells dealing with light, such as Flare, and damage from Sunbeam, but not Blindness/Deafness.

Wingclaws (Ex/Su): Wing dragons shapechanging wings include the ability to grow a set of small claws at the joint where the wing fingers are. These are useless as weapons (including weilding any weapon except perhaps a hand crossbow) or for fine manipulation of most sorts, but can each hold an object of up to 1/20th of a light load and can release/throw (with a forward sweep of the wing) them. This means that when they gain the Limited Snatch ability listed below, they can drop up to 7 objects at a time (4 in the feet, 2 in the wingclaws, and 1 in the mouth). They are also highly suitable for wand use.

Evasion (Ex): If a very young or older wing dragon makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, it instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a wing dragon is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless wing dragon does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Heroic Idiocy (Ex): Wing dragons of at least very young age category are too foolhardy and self confident to be intimidated, especially when they are in their element. They gain a bonus equal to their age category versus fear effects, when on the wing and in combat this bonus is doubled.

Limited Snatch (Ex): The Dragon can drop any object(s) it holds as a free action (unaimed), or use a standard action to drop any number (aimed as a proficient weapons) or fling them aside (also counts as proficient attacks). Wing Dragons like dropping rocks and grenade like missiles (including bundles of smoke sticks which scatter as they fall), both as an exercise in skill and as a combat tactic to make up for their lack of offensive breath weapon.

Weather Master (Ex): For purposes of wind effects wing dragons of at least very young age category are not counted as one size class smaller while flying. They are immune to damage from naturally occurring lightning and natural environmental temperatures (except those tinged with strong spiritual energies). Thus, while they could comfortably sunbathe in the light of a supernova at any range (at least until the blast wave of particles OTHER than photons hit them), but the flames that are natural to an infernal plane or those of the elemental plane of fire would give them trouble.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A wing dragon of young or older age category can react to danger before its senses would normally allow it to do so. It retains its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if it is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a wing dragon already has uncanny dodge from a class it automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Create Air (Sp): The Wing Dragon creates an envelop of continuously generated air around itself (and any creatures it is in contact with or comes in contact with at its option), allowing it to breath even underwater (although it will be giving off bubbles like crazy and surrounded in a "skin" of air) and to fly and breath in airless environments. This gives a +10 bonus on all saves against inhaled threats including the Druid spell Miasma and the internal claws of a Belker. While using this ability the Wing Dragon (and anyone in contact with it) can mostly only smell the air it is creating, and it is insulated to a degree from the minuit motions of the air around it. For these reason it cannot use the Scent special quality if it has it while under the effects of this, and its blindsense is reduced to 60 feet. Wing Dragons may freely use their breath weapon as normal while using this ability.

Expeditious Movement (Sp): A wing dragon of at least Old status may produce an effect similar to Expeditious Retreat except that if they cast it on themselves it affects ALL of their movement rates (not just land-speed) and instead of a flat bonus it doubles the movement rate. This ability is usable 3 times per day.

Breath Weapon (Su): The breath weapon of the Wing Dragon is harmless magical smoke. It is unique and peculiar among dragons. Of primary interest to sages is that, strictly speaking, it really is absolutely harmless. Many an awe struck peasant gazing at a Wing Dragon's 'Sky painting' would believe this. Anyone who has ever fought a Wing Dragon would agree with every technical point but declare the conclusion of 'harmless' to be complete ivory tower nonsense. Also unusual is that they may utilize it every round instead of every 1d4 rounds. It is non-toxic, completely odorless, and its magical properties preclude it being concentrated enough to displace breathable air measurably. However the Wing Dragon can exercise an amazing amount of control over it. The color can be altered as a free action to anything from completely transparent (which doesn't mean that the visibility improves if the area also contains another type of fog, smoke, or dust), to a black mist sufficient to turn high noon into pitch dark (and worse yet a pitch dark that darkvision can't see through), to any shade, color, and opacity you can imagine. It can also be made to glow in any color and any intensity the Wing Dragon wishes, up to and including illuminating everything within it and for 20 feet around it as a light spell. A darkness spell that overcomes the light effect does not destroy the fog, but merely prevents the fog from glowing within its area of effect and turns the area dark as it normally would. At any one time a Wing Dragon may maintain a cloud or clouds of totally opaque fog equal to the amount it could expel in 10 rounds, provided it is within 1 mile per age category. Any excess dissipates, however the Wing Dragon may choose which parts to have dissipate. Once per round, as a move action, part of a move action, or as part of expelling its breath weapon, a Wing Dragon may manipulate its fog changing the color, glow, etc of each part. It may move as many cubes at it likes, but each may move no more than 10' x the Wing Dragons age category. Note that for purposes of Sky Painting the Barnstormer is in NO way restricted to 5' cubes... they can make doll-sized fog sculptures if they so chose... 5' cubes are merely as simplification for combat purposes.


Other Spell-like Abilities: At Will - Prestidigitation(All Age Categories); 3/day - Know Direction(Very Young and older) , Control Winds (Juvenile and older)

Skills:
The class skills for a Wing Dragon are: Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft(Sky Painting), Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Heal, Hide, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Search, and Tumble. They receive a bonus equal to their age category on any check made to avoid becoming lost. While flying or falling Wing Dragons have the Balance, Move Silently, and Tumble skills for free at 1 rank per Hit Die. Note that, for the purposes of reducing damage, the moment of impact during a crash or fall counts as flying or falling. Their keen senses stand in sharp contrast to their poor judgment, granting them a +5 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks, Their color changing scales allow them a bonus to Hide checks in any particular environment equal to 3+Age Category + Intelligence modifier. This only applies to on specific environment/color scheme at a time. If the background against which the dragon is attempting to hide changes they lose this bonus until they reenter the old environment or take a move equivalent action to change their scale colors. If the dragon takes at least ten minutes to study a specific spot it plans to hide in and then spends at least two minutes to change her scales to perfectly match that exact local then this bonus changes to 2 + Hit Dice + Intelligence modifier while hiding their. At any given time the Dragon can remember 1 + Age Category + Intelligence modifier such scale patterns. These can also be used to memorize other similar complex scale patterns. If used as part of a disguise check this (together with their polymorphic wings) gives a +5 modifier to attempt to disguise as any other dragon (specific individual or general type).

Castor and Pollux's Battle Code - While sharply limited in its vocabulary (just enough for tactical communication, including specific spells and abilities to use), this language can be spoken in many forms: Verbally, written in the air by means of their breath weapons or Prestidigitation or with small, simple and quick changes of scale coloration. The have NOT shared this language with anyone else to date.

Lore
Knowledge (Arcana)
{table=head]DC | Lore
17 | This creature is definitely a True Dragon, normally one can tell a True Dragon's species by such clues as wing-shape, head-shape, and coloration. In this particular case the wings and coloration are nothing you have heard of before, and the head-shape lacks many noticeable features. This reveals any STANDARD True Dragon traits.
22 | This is a wing dragon. They can change their coloration at will for decorative purposes or camouflage and their breathweapon is a non-toxic fog that can be of almost any color. They are fond of putting on flight demonstrations for payment, and can do pictures in the sky made out of their breath weapon that remain hours at a time.
27 | Wing dragons can telekinetically manipulate their fog and they generally use an intensely black form of it for battlefield obscurement, they are deft flyers, and can perfer to strike with a rogues precision, approaching their target on silent wings and then continuing past them to be out of range before effective counterstrike is possible. To close from long range they may attempt to disguise themselves within their breath weapon to appear as a cloud or patch of dense fog. They can see through their own breathweapon as well as clouds, smoke, or mist, even magically created ones.
32 | This reveals everything in this creature entry including personality, role in draconic societies, and abilities (SLA's Unblinking, etc).[/table]

Knowledge (Local)
{table=head]DC | Lore
17|There are dragons who patrol this area in the service of <Insert Local Noble or other Authority figure here>.
22|The dragons in question are twins named Castor and Pollux, they are very fast and often disguise themselves as clouds.
27|Castor and Pollux have a wide variety of magic items at their disposal and use lightning and fire in combat against larger groups. Against smaller groups they strike in near-perfect tandem, aiming for vital areas.[/Table]


Feats:

Gemini Strike[General]
You and a team-mate strike as one, speeding by to deliver such well coordinated blows that you gain the benefits of both hit-and-run tactics, and superior postioning... and then some.

Prerequisites:
Ride-by Attack OR Fly-by Attack OR Spring Attack, OR Swim-by Attack
Dodge AND Mobility
Sneak Attack +2d6 OR Skirmish +1d6/+1 OR BAB +6


Benefits:
Two or more allied creatures who each have this feat may activate it when initiative is called for, but before it is actually rolled. They must declare which specific individuals they are activating it with, and all members of a group must have this feat. In such a case they both/all act on the lowest initiative in the group.
Alternatively, groups may be formed mid-combat by all prospective group members announcing such on their respective turns which are then delayed to an initiative 2 points lower than the lowest one in the group. If any prospective group member elects not to enter the forming group, then the others already in the group may elect to proceed with only the members who are already delaying, who act immediately, in order of the initiatives they had before they started delaying.
While acting together, group members must use the same types of actions (Full round, Swift, Move Equivalent, Standard), in the same order, and each of these actions is taken simultaneously with every other member of the group. (although they may always use any type of action to do nothing at all to maintain this synchronization). If moving at the same time, they must expend proportionate (or equal if they have the same speed) amounts of their movement at the same times, although slowing down is modeled as expending movement without changing squares.
If two or more members of a group have each moved at least 10 feet, will (unless something changes to prevent them) move a further 10 feet, currently are creating a flank with each other against that opponent and are using any of the feats that allow movement both before and after an attack, then they each gain an additional +1 to hit against that opponent, and each deal an additional 1d6 of Sneak Attack damage, provided that individual is already dealing at least +2d6 of Sneak or Skirmish damage.
Normal: Turns are taken in sequential order.

Faster Healing [Fighter]
You recover from injuries, poisons, and other damage faster than most.
Benefits: You regain lost ability score points and hitpoints at twice the rate of normal creatures. This stacks with both rest and long-term care (but remember that in D&D a doubled doubling in a tripling). It has no effect on magical healing.
Special: A fighter may take this as one of his bonus feats.


Magic items
Arc Vest
Once per round if two of these are activated (a standard action) within 30 feet of each other at the same moment (usually requiring a readied action on the part of one of the activators, but in Castor and Pollux's case they may use Gemini Strike) it produces an arc of electricity between the two that deals 15d6 damage. A reflex save may be made against a DC of 14+ the average of the wearers dexterity modifiers for half damage. This expends one charge from each vest. Alternatively, a wearer may drain all current charges to produce a standard lightning bolt that deals 3d6 damage per charge so expended. In such a case the DC is a static 14. They have 3 charges, and recover one charge per 2 hours. They must be worn to be activated in either mode.
Strong Evocation; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item, Lightning Bolt; Price 20,250 gp each.


Scroll of True Haste
As per Haste except that no bonus to base movement rate is given, but if the creature forgoes the extra attack granted, or does not attack in a given round it gains an additional move action (which may ONLY be used for movement), and it is single target only, with a range of touch. The scrolls that Castor and Pollux have have an effective spell level of 3, a caster level of 8, and were a present from their mother when they graduated from the patrol academy, with the condition that they would return to her immediately if they ever used them so she could make sure they were not being TOO reckless in their tactics. They are specifically designed to be tough and highly legible enough to be read at any aerial speed that Castor or Pollux could reasonably achieve.


Link for posterity in case I ever change my sig in years to come:
Wing Dragons can be found HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3788332&postcount=9).

DracoDei
2009-06-28, 04:05 PM
Feat and item definitions are up, although I need to go back and get the text formatting right, plus creation procedures for the vests if possible (should all be done now, although the price on the arc vests seems a little high, even after some fairly serious mitigation). Tell me how I could further clarify them if such is possible.

alchemyprime
2009-06-29, 12:09 AM
Castor

Medium Dragon (Air)
Hit Dice: 12d12 + 3d4 + 45 (143 hp)

Pollux
Medium Dragon (Air)
Hit Dice: 12d12 + 3d6 + 45 (133 hp)


Why does Castor have +3d4? Are these Wizard, Sorcerer, Psion or some other levels? Where are the abilities from this class?

For that matter, what about Pollux? I assume these are rogue levels, but what's the rogue abilities? Were are they?

Special Qualities and Speacial Attacks of each (unique ones anyway) should be in the stat block portion for the dragons at least.

DracoDei
2009-06-29, 03:25 AM
Sorcerer and Rogue respectively, and I will make sure the things you mention get in there(and that is the sort of thing that having The Tangled Web to copy from should make it very hard to miss), but I am currently a long way from finished... hope I make the deadline... I have plenty of time in theory, but some stuff is going on that is very emotionally draining.

What about Gemini Strike and the Arc Vest? That is the original work, and thus the part I am worried about.

alchemyprime
2009-06-29, 08:43 AM
DracoDei


Sorcerer and Rogue respectively, and I will make sure the things you mention get in there(and that is the sort of thing that having The Tangled Web to copy from should make it very hard to miss), but I am currently a long way from finished... hope I make the deadline... I have plenty of time in theory, but some stuff is going on that is very emotionally draining.

What about Gemini Strike and the Arc Vest? That is the original work, and thus the part I am worried about.



Gemini Strike[General]
Flavor text.
Prerequisites:Sneak Attack +2d6, Dodge, Mobility, and either Ride-by Attack, Fly-by Attack, Spring Attack, or Swim-by Attack
Benefits:
Two or more allied creatures may activate this feat when initiative is called for, but before it is actually rolled. They must declare which specific individuals they are activating it with, and all members of a group must have this feat In such a case they both act on the lowest initiative in the group.
Alternatively, groups may be formed mid-combat by all prospective group members announcing such on their respective turns which are then delayed to an intiative 2 points lower than the lowest one in the group. IF any prospective group member elects not to enter the forming group, then the others already in the group may elect to proceed with only the members who are already delaying, who act immediately, in order of the initiatives they had before they started delaying.
While acting together, group members must use the same types of actions (Full round, Swift, Move Equivalent, Standard), in the same order, and each of these actions is taken simultaneously with every other member of the group. If moving at the same time, they must expend proportionate (or equal if they have the same speed) amounts of their movement at the same times, although slowing down is modeled as expending movement without changing squares.
If two or more members of a group have each moved at least 10 feet, will (unless something changes to prevent them) move a further 10 feet, currently are creating a flank with each other against that opponent and are using any of the feats that allow movement both before and after an attack, then they each gain an additional +1 to hit against that opponent, and each deal an additional 1d6 of Sneak Attack damage.
Normal: Turns are taken in sequential order.

Okay, this totally makes sense how Pollux has it. He can easily fit these pre-reqs, and this seems like an awesome feat overall. When the next set of characters comes up if we do 3.5, I'll ask my girlfriend about us playing a rogue and a savant and taking this feat together.

That said, though this is one of the better homebrew feats I've seen and one that I think Paizo, Goodman, or even Green Ronin would be ready to okay for a book (I'm a little biased; these are my 3 favorite game companies besides WotC), I do think that you need to tweak the requirements. The way it is worded, you must have:


The Dodge feat
The Mobility Feat (which required Dodge anyway)
One of four other feats
Either 3 rogue levels or 7 savant levels IIRC.


The feat pre-reqs I'm fine with. This is a tough feat to beat, and so it has steep feat needs to meet (now say that 5 times fast :smalltongue:). But... the Sneak Attack pre-req bugs me. If I were considering the pre-reqs, make it a choice of three or four options. Maybe change it from:


Prerequisites:Sneak Attack +2d6Dodge, Mobility, and either Ride-by Attack, Fly-by Attack, Spring Attack, or Swim-by Attack

to perhaps


Prerequisites:Sneak Attack +2d6, Dodge, Mobility, and either Ride-by Attack, Fly-by Attack, Spring Attack, or Swim-by Attack, plus either Sneak Attack or Skirmish +2d6, or Base Attack Bonus +5.

I like something like this a little better. It opens the feat up a little bit, but really, anyone taking the rogue dip for 3 levels could pick it up a little earlier (around level 6). A fighter could also easily pick it up by about 6th, and a barbarian might be able to if he tried. And, at least to me, I would want the fighter and the rogue syncing up. The fighter or the barbarian goes up, smacks down the enemy with a Power Attack, and the rogue simultaneously moves into flanking and Sneak Attacks. It just seems right. Like something Fafrhd and the Grey Mouser would do.

Plus this way, the feat is opened up to Castor, and they can sync up with something like... hm... Castor using a Magic Missile on two targets while Pollux Sneak Attacks a third using a claw or something. I mean, Castor and Pollux are dragons, they have a +12 just from HD. The +5 BAB requirement makes it easy for them to grab it.

Just my 2 cp.


Faster Healing [Fighter]
You recover from injuries, poisons, and other damage faster than most.
Benefits: You regain lost ability score points and hitpoints at twice the rate of normal creatures. This stacks with both rest and long-term care. It has no effect on magical healing. Remember that in D&D a doubled doubling in a tripling.
Special: A fighter may take this as one of his bonus feats.

I love this feat. In fact, I was wondering how I could make the binder character I'm making even better. I'm using this feat in the game I play in. :smallbiggrin:


Magic items
Arc Vest
Once per round if two of these are activated with 30 feet of each other at the same moment (usually requiring a readied action on the part of one of the activators, but in Castor and Pollux's case they may use Gemini Strike) it produces an arc of electricity between the two that deals 15d6 damage. A reflex save may be made against a DC of 14+ the average of the wearers dexterity modifiers for half damage. This expends one charge from each vest. Alternatively, a wearer may drain all current charges to produce a standard lightning bolt that deals 3d6 damage per charge so expended. In such a case the DC is a static 14. They have 3 charges, and recover one charge per 2 hours. They must be worn to be activated in either mode.
Strong Evocation; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item, Lightning Bolt; Price 20,250 gp each.

I love the Arc Vest. It reminds me of a spell I used a lot back in a 3.5 game as a wizard (Arc Lightning), and pulling it off with a buddy feels right to me, like that's what more items in D&D should do. It reminds me of the Dvati from Dragon Compendium.
Oh... there's an idea... Buhahahahaha...
Anywho, I can see this not only being a great way to synergize with an ally, but also a superior form of lightning bolt. This is the sort of thing that the first time you throw it at players, the wizard far between the two will say "Oh, I'm okay. They're not flanking ME..." until ZAP! Extra Crispy Evoker. :smallbiggrin:

So yeah, overall, I like what you're doing here.

ZetaKai


Let me just say, I LOVE Rosenrot and the Spirit Dragon idea in general. I think you could easily surround a whole campaign around it, such as using it to trick a Dragon trying to find an alternative to Dracolich. I likes the idea a lot.

DracoDei
2009-06-29, 11:05 AM
Glad you like my stuff! (and are willing to take the time to say WHAT you like about it... but that is a rant for another time, and not directed at you).

Wing Dragons have Sneak Attack as a racial ability, Castor just has rogue levels for synergy (it is the Wing Dragon favored class). Both of them are going to have the feat.

I agree that +2d6 Skirmish should be able to be substituted for the +2d6 Sneak attack. Not sure about a straight BAB as an alternative to both of those, although I guess in a standard sized adventuring party at low to mid levels it is pretty much required to make the feat useful.

Gemini Strike can't be used unless at least two people have it.

EDIT: Have changed the pre-requisites for Gemini Strike, basically in accordance with the suggestions and have added some emphasis that it is useless if only one person in the party has it.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-29, 11:48 AM
I hope that someone else joins this contest. There's some good 'brewing coming out of this.


C'mon, everybody! You can 'brew it! Only 36 hours left!

DracoDei
2009-06-29, 12:05 PM
I make it 60 hours by the way the rules are written.

alchemyprime
2009-06-29, 03:48 PM
DracoDei: I did not see that Sneak Attack was a racial ability, but still glad you took my idea on the feat. :smallsmile: That'll make it very fun indeed.

Everyone: I should've explained, I go by Pacific Standard Time. It is now 1:42pm on June 29th from where I am sitting. Meaning, as I see it, any dragon received before or on July 1st will be valid. So you have 58 hours and 17 minutes to finish your dragons and submit them.

Of course... I may do another Monstrous Contest after this. In fact, I will!

So, every entry is worth 1 vote on the next AP's MC! The next available contests are:


Why are they so Fair? (Fey Monsters)
That which is dreaming... (Elder Evils and Aberrations)
Move Your Dead Bones (Undead)
For Treasure! (Legacy Weapons and the Monsters that use them)


So... what'll be the next Alchemyprime's Monstrous Contest?

Zeta Kai
2009-06-29, 04:33 PM
Why are they so Fair? (Fey Monsters)

The fae-folk always need more love. They are least-represented creature type in the books. There are more Oozes & robots then there are Fey.

Celebrochan
2009-06-29, 04:35 PM
I made some updates to lilat fyi. :smallwink:

alchemyprime
2009-06-29, 05:07 PM
Changing around your paladins so they work as Lawful Evil

Guarding her greeting lair are also several of the guards from the city of Keshi. Stats for these guards are below.

Guards
Size/Type:
Medium Human
Hit Dice:
4d10+1 (24) (Paladin (of Tyranny) 2 / fighter 2)
Initiative:
+1

Speed:
30 ft.
Armor Class: 22-26 (23-27 on dodge target) (+8 armor,+1 dexterity, enhancement +1, +2 shield, +0 to +4 combat expertise, +1 dodge)), touch 12, flat-footed 21

Base Attack/Grapple: +4
Attack: +9
Full Attack: Long Sword +9 (1d8 +4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Smite Good
Special Qualities: Detect Good, Divine Grace, Deadly Touch (4 hp, DC 12 Will for half), Aura of Evil
Saves: Fort+ 8, Reflex +2, Will +4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 15
Skills: Diplomacy +7 , Heal +5, Intimidate +2, Sense Motive +5, Swim +4 (-8 with armor penalty)
Feats: Blind fighting, Combat expertise, Dodge, Iron will, Weapon focus (long sword)
Environment: Lilat’s greeting lair
Organization: There are five groups of four patrolling the greeting lair
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Long sword +1, Full plate +1, Shield +1
Alignment: Lawful evil

All guards carry horns that are sounded if intruders are found in the lair. The other groups of patroling guards will arive 1d6 rounds after a horn is blown.

DracoDei
2009-06-29, 05:07 PM
Castor and Pollux should be complete except for history and battle tactics and such like... IE they are mechanically complete I THINK. I don't have my DMG here at this house so they may be rather over-equiped, even for adventuring NPC dragons... anyone who wants to do the math so I can consider altering things is welcome, if not, then can we just call it good?

Edit: Having now looked up the general nature of Dvati on the web, I must say that Gemini Strike would be a perfect feat for them, and I might even reduce the pre-requisites a tad for fluff reasons in such a case. Similarly, a pair of arc vests would suit a Dvati very well indeed thematically.

Celebrochan
2009-06-29, 05:21 PM
But they aren't supposed to be evil?

Being an evil alignment doesn't necesarily make you show up on detect evil spells and Lilat is careful to not act in a way that would cause them to consider her so around them.

It is always good to have "good" in your pocket.

DracoDei
2009-06-29, 05:29 PM
If you mean Castor and Pollux, then no... Wing Dragons are my second largest project, and have been around a while. They have always been Neutral Good racially, and Evil PCs need encounters too.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-29, 06:15 PM
I made sure that Rosenrot would work as an antagonist for parties of any alignment. On CN creatures can pull that off easily.

DracoDei
2009-06-29, 06:17 PM
I think Rosenrot is missing the increase of spells per day for high charisma.

Celebrochan
2009-06-29, 06:29 PM
If you mean Castor and Pollux, then no... Wing Dragons are my second largest project, and have been around a while. They have always been Neutral Good racially, and Evil PCs need encounters too.

I was addressing alchemyprime. He made my guards lawful evil paladins when I wanted the vanila variety.

alchemyprime
2009-06-29, 07:28 PM
I was addressing alchemyprime. He made my guards lawful evil paladins when I wanted the vanila variety.

No. I made a Lawful Evil copy. You wrote LE for their alignment originally and paladins:


Code of Conduct
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Associates
While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.




I'm just saying, Vanilla Paladins (3.5 anyway) can't guard your dragon unless they are unknowing of her evil. My Black Walnut paladins anyway (least favorite ice cream and alignment :smalltongue:) can serve her and are encouraged too.

But hey, a bit of fluffing and I can overlook the whole LG/LE paladin dilemma...

:smallbiggrin: I was just messing with you when I made the other paladin. Just was suggesting the LE variant.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-29, 07:40 PM
I think Rosenrot is missing the increase of spells per day for high charisma.

Fixed (again). Thanks for the catch (again).

Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll
2009-06-29, 09:13 PM
Yeah, I was wondering if there was any connection with the song, Zeta.

Anyways, I really hope what I've thrown together can stand up to the likes of Zeta and Draco!

DracoDei
2009-06-30, 08:43 PM
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll: Thank you very much, and historically, people who say such things end up doing very well if I remember correctly.


The following has been edited for clarity:
I have made an update to the description and tactics sections. And, yes, I specifically stated that they will use the "cheesy" tactics that can make vampires a threat about 2 CRs above what they would be otherwise. Did I make those sections clear and do the tactics (all of them, not just the "attack, run away to fast heal, repeat" part) sound like they would be effective?

DracoDei
2009-07-01, 10:57 AM
Bump for last-minute feedback on everyone's projects. I think I can call mine "done" unless inspiration strikes further or anyone has further suggestions. (NOW would be the time for any technical details I missed, which I didn't want earlier).

Edit: Gave Gemini Strike some flavor text.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-01, 11:15 AM
Mine is also complete. I am eager to find out who won which prize.

Who's doing the judging? Is it AP alone? Or is there a wider vote?

alchemyprime
2009-07-01, 06:07 PM
It might end up being me alone, but all else fails I have a few folks I like to help me review things....

Roughly 4.75 hours left folks...

Zeta Kai
2009-07-03, 12:57 PM
So, the contest is presumably closed. When can we expect the results? Hmm?

alchemyprime
2009-07-03, 11:30 PM
I will try to get you results by next Wednesday. My judges haven't gotten back to me yet if they can help. :smalleek:

alchemyprime
2009-07-08, 06:55 PM
After careful and half-assed deliberation, I have come to a conclusion!



Best CR 1-10 Dragon goes to... NO ONE!
Best CR 11-20 Dragon goes to... Lilat! (For good reason...)
Best CR 20+ dragon goes to... Rosenrot!
Most Awesome Fluffed Dragon goes to... damn... Castor and Pollux AND to Rosenrot!
Best Templated Dragon goes to... no one...
Best Munchkinized Dragon goes to... I was too lazy to award it... :smallyuk: I was expecting a judge for this category...
Best Overall Dragon goes to... Castor and Pollux!


I'll get you all your award later with explanations. For not, compy is slow.

Zeta Kai
2009-07-08, 08:09 PM
Yay! I am winner! I so happy! :smallbiggrin:

That's cool. Everyone walks away with something, & some awesome homebrew was made as a result. Kudos to all who participated, & especially to AP, who came up with an inspiring contest.

And DD, congratulations. I really like the twins. :smallcool:

DracoDei
2009-07-08, 08:18 PM
Very nice to have finally won something. *Takes a bow*
I... will say no more for the moment.

alchemyprime
2009-07-08, 09:18 PM
Um... guys? How... how do I post Trophies?

DracoDei
2009-07-09, 06:24 AM
If you mean gold cups or pictures of our entries, or whatever, here is my best guess/explanation:
1.) You put the image on an image hosting site that allows the right kind of linking
2.) Copy the URL (for the image itself) into you cut/paste buffer
3.) Start/edit the appropriate message here on GitP
4.) Click the mountains with the sun over them in the toolbar at the top of the message posting box, then paste the URL (it won't let you click away from that pop up until you give it the URL or cancel it I don't think, so that is why it is important to have the URL already in the buffer).


P.S. But what I am especially interested in is how I managed to make a decription of suspect approach proceedures and professional decorum become the equal of a tragic back-story to get a tie for "best fluff". Was it just the idea of dragon as border gaurds? Or were you counting the fluff for the wing dragon race in general? Or do we have different definitions of what constitutes "fluff"?

alchemyprime
2009-07-09, 09:29 AM
P.S. But what I am especially interested in is how I managed to make a decription of suspect approach proceedures and professional decorum become the equal of a tragic back-story to get a tie for "best fluff". Was it just the idea of dragon as border gaurds? Or were you counting the fluff for the wing dragon race in general? Or do we have different definitions of what constitutes "fluff"?

I consider fluff to be of three parts:

Sheer awesomeness of the idea. You read it and get excited. (DracoDei won here. Dual dragons rock my socks.).
The detail and story behind the idea, especially for drama and role-playing purposes. (This was all Zeta Kai. the tragic backstory bit)
How easy it would be to incorperate this into a campaign, either from the beginning or as you roll. (You both did well enough in this one that I felt like I'd be cheating if I gave it to one and not the other.)


As for Liliat... I've never been a big fan of the Diamond Throne's dragons, mainly because I like the idea of dragons being... archetypical. So I was a little biased. And the paladins bugged me from a fluff/crunch perspective.

Admittedly, Rosenrot won by default because no one else made an epic dragon.

And Lilait won its category because... the fact that DracoDei made two entries to be counted as one... the whole two dragons thing and the homemade magic item and feat... it was just so fun crunchwise that I HAD to give best overall to Castor and Pollux. I loved Rosenrot, don't get me wrong, but... man, I want to run Castor and Pollux badly... I want to roll up characters just to do a skirmish with them.

So that's my reasoning. I put the scores on the other computer... so I'm not sure exactly who got what. Rosenrot was low 90s, Castor/Pollux were 95 I beleive... and Lilail was in the 80s. Mostly fluff. I'm not fond of Diamond Throne dragons except the cast by Intelligence part.

Here it is!

C&P. Total Score: 95/100
•Fluff: The more original or invocative the fluff of the dragon, the better. Awarded Points: 35/35
•Crunch: Whatever dragon seems the best statted out with the coolest powers to toss at players for its CR. Possible Points: 30/35
•Ease of Access: If a DM with only the core books can pick up your dragon and use it, you get a lot of points. So all that extra stuff, make notes about it. Possible Points: 15/15
•Sheer Awesomeness: Exactly what it says on the tin. Possible Points: 15/15

ROSENROT Total Score: 94
•Fluff: The more original or invocative the fluff of the dragon, the better. Possible Points: 35/35
•Crunch: Whatever dragon seems the best statted out with the coolest powers to toss at players for its CR. Possible Points: 30/35 (it was mostly the Incorporeal Thing... I'm not a big fan of incorporeal monsters.)
•Ease of Access: If a DM with only the core books can pick up your dragon and use it, you get a lot of points. So all that extra stuff, make notes about it. Possible Points: 14/15 (Incorporeal bugs me... :smalltongue:)
•Sheer Awesomeness: Exactly what it says on the tin. Possible Points: 15/15

Lilait Total Score: 85
•Fluff: The more original or invocative the fluff of the dragon, the better. Possible Points: 30/35 (Diamond Throne... I do like them lion-folks though...)
•Crunch: Whatever dragon seems the best statted out with the coolest powers to toss at players for its CR. Possible Points: 35/35 (Due, I'll be honest, it takes a lot to convert. I respect that.)
•Ease of Access: If a DM with only the core books can pick up your dragon and use it, you get a lot of points. So all that extra stuff, make notes about it. Possible Points: 10/15 (Your formatting was kinda wonky. You needed to Bold some things to make them more obvious.)
•Sheer Awesomeness: Exactly what it says on the tin. Possible Points: 10/15


So, two As and a B. Oh, and DracoDei and Cere? If you two could vote on what monster type for the next contest, it'd be much appreciated.

DracoDei
2009-07-09, 09:50 AM
Thank you for your explaination, I expect it will be very helpful when I can think on it a while to see how (if at all) it should affect my future homebrewing technique.

As for a vote, I don't have rules for legacy weapons, and the back-stories of the ones in Book of Nine Swords seem a bit trite to me somehow, so I am going to go with Why are they so Fair? (Fey Monsters).