I Need a level 20 party FAST!!! (Babale this is not for you)

[Trodon]

I am DMing a solo game and i need a level 20 party any 3.5 book standard WBL help

[holywhippet]

More details please. How many party members are you thinking of? Is the campaign going to be hack and slash or will there be investigation/skill checks involved? What kind of setting are you planning - somewhere infested with undead will call for a different build than somewhere infested by orcs for example.

Dependind on the experience of the player you might want to keep it simple to avoid confusing them with assorted class powers/abilities.

[Trodon]

yes sorry i typed it up in a hurry 4 characters undead infested D&D 3.5 hack and slash there will be alot of traps what else do you need

[Eldariel]

What books are you working with? How powerful a party do you want? How much are you capable of doing yourself? How much do you know of spells, feats and other similar options available on 20?

[Trodon]

What books are you working with? How powerful a party do you want? How much are you capable of doing yourself? How much do you know of spells, feats and other similar options available on 20?

absolutely anything, any book, any spell, any class, ect ect

[Eldariel]

Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Wizard sounds pretty good then. Cleric should probably be Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/X 5 (Divine Disciple is good if you don't shun Polymorph [though you should]), Wizards optimized for efficiency would be Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5; a bit tamer version would be Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Shadowcrafter 9/Shadowcraft Mage 5. Other solid options include Wizard 3/Master Conjurer 10/Fatespinner 4/Archmage 2, Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7, etc.

And Druid should be Druid 20, or Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10 in a completely insane world. You could have any of the characters become a Trapfinder, although it's probably most natural for a Wizard due to being Int-based; just take Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightement and pick Kobold-domain. But yeah, such a party would pack quite the punch.


This is assuming you don't want to break the game. Which is really mean, but doable.

[Wings of Peace]

Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Wizard sounds pretty good then. Cleric should probably be Cleric 5/Dweomerkeeper 10/X 5 (Divine Disciple is good if you don't shun Polymorph [though you should]), Wizards optimized for efficiency would be Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5; a bit tamer version would be Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Shadowcrafter 9/Shadowcraft Mage 5. Other solid options include Wizard 3/Master Conjurer 10/Fatespinner 4/Archmage 2, Abjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7, etc.

And Druid should be Druid 20, or Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10 in a completely insane world. You could have any of the characters become a Trapfinder, although it's probably most natural for a Wizard due to being Int-based; just take Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightement and pick Kobold-domain. But yeah, such a party would pack quite the punch.


This is assuming you don't want to break the game. Which is really mean, but doable.

How dare you forget the always balanced Ur-Priest 2/Warlock8/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Disciple 7

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Lvl 20 Monk

STR 16, DEX 22 (+6 item), CON 14 (+2 item), INT 15, WIS 22 (+6 item, stat gain), CHR 9
FEATS: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple (Monk bonus feats), Improved Initiative (human bonus feat), Magical Apitude, Combat Reflexes (Monk bonus feat), Skill Focus- Use Magic Device, Improved Disarm (Monk bonus feat), Improved Natural Attack, Blind-Fight, Stunning Fist (16/day, DC 26), Flyby Attack, Ability Focus: Stunning Fist
SPECIAL: Improved Evasion, Slow Fall (any distance), Ki-Magic/Lawful/adamantine, Purity of Body (immune to Disease), Wholeness of body (36 hits/day), Diamond body (immunity to poison), Abundant Step (Dimension door 1/day), Diamond soul (Spell resistance: 25), Quivering palm (1/week, DC 24), Timeless body, tongue of the sun and the moon (constant tongues as extraordinary ability), Empty body (etheralness up to 19 rounds/day), Perfect Self
SKILLS: Move Silently +32 (DEX, 23 ranks, MW item, luck), Hide +32 (DEX, 23 ranks, MW item, luck), Spot +41 (WIS, 22 ranks, MW item, robe, luck), Listen +31 (WIS, 23 ranks, MW item, luck), Use Magic Device +19 (CHR, 9 ranks, feats, MW item, circlet, luck), Spellcraft +14 (INT, 5 ranks, feat, synergy, MW item, luck), Knowledge-Arcane +10 (INT, 5 ranks, MW item, luck), Tumble +14 (DEX, 5 ranks, MW item, synergy, luck), Perform- Comedy +6 (CHR, 1 rank, MW item, circlet, luck), Jump +33 (STR, 5 ranks, MW item, synergy, move, luck), Diplomacy +29 (CHR, 22 ranks, MW item, circlet, luck, synergy), Sense Motive +13 (WIS, 5 ranks, MW item, luck), Search +15 (INT, MW item, luck, robe)
ITEMS: Masterwork tools for all above skills (650 gp), Masterwork spiked chain (325), bead of bless 1/day (600), Masterwork light crossbow (335), 2 Pearls of Power, level 1 (2,000), Lesser Rod of Extend (3,000), Circlet of Pesuasion (4,500), Gloves of DEX+6 (36,000), 50 Masterwork Shuriken (310), Eversmoking Bottle (5,400), Pearl of Power level 3 (9,000), Belt of Dwarvenkind (19,000), Amulet of WIS+6 (36,000), Ring of Blinking (27,000), Ring of Protection +2 (8,000), Stone of Good luck (20,000), Rod of Cancellation (11,000), Wings of Flying (54,000), Boots of Teleportation (49,000), Gem of Seeing (75,000), Robe of Eyes (120,000).
WAND BUDGET: 303,600 (cumulative with prvs levels)
INITIATIVE: +11 (DEX, feat, luck)
MOVE: 90ft (120ft flying)
AC 33 (WIS, DEX, monk, mage armour, deflection, +4 enhance), 36 fighting defensively, 39 full defense (tumble)
HITS 123 (max d8 at first level, CON)
SAVES: Fort +17, Refl +20, Will +21 (+23 vs enchantment)
GRAPPLE: +22 (+22/+22/+22/+17/+12); with rightous might +28 (+28/+28/+28/+23/+18); with divine power and rightous might +36 (+36/+36/+36/+31/+26/+21)
UNARMED ATTACK: +21 (+21/+21/+21/+16/+11), blinking; Damage 4d8+2d6 +3, 6d8+2d6 +4 enlarged; with divine power and holy sword up, enlarged: +32 (+32/+32/+32/+27/+22/+17), Damage 6d8+2d6 +13 (or avg 47 damage per hit)

COMMENT: Congratulations! A joker at 20th level quite sight to behold. The treasure can go to all kinds of things. I like the intelligent item with special purpose “help joker vanquish all casters” with a dimension door ability to grant the monk full attack AND move in the same round. But it’s just crusting on the cake. One item you can afford to swap out is the monk’s belt, since you no longer get anything from stacking damage dice. The belt of dwarven kind costs almost the same and helps get you some benefits, like higher hp.
Perfect self now means you are an outsider for magical effects. This DOES carry some disadvantages, like being no longer able to use enlarge. So you should get rightous might effect instead (scroll or spell storing).
Advantages:
And at 20th level, you have DR 10/magic, meaning hardly anyone will be able to hurt you when grappling (which is non-magical damage for most). And of course, you can use alter self to turn into awesome creatures, for instance into a ravid granting perfect fly speed of 60ft and +15 natural AC.(courtesy Solo). …not necessarily the devil of Joker’s choice, though...

[Eldariel]

How dare you forget the always balanced Ur-Priest 2/Warlock8/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Disciple 7

Well, those classes have nothing on Incantatrix, Dweomerkeeper or Planar Shepherd. You could try to build some Ur-Priest Dweomerkeeper though, but I personally just like Cleric 'cause of being able to get 5-6 Domains and making them all spontaneous, and getting access to all Divine feats (Ur-Priest can only use the ones that work off Rebuke or Rebuke/Turning; few good ones are Turning-only).

[Wings of Peace]

Well, those classes have nothing on Incantatrix, Dweomerkeeper or Planar Shepherd. You could try to build some Ur-Priest Dweomerkeeper though, but I personally just like Cleric 'cause of being able to get 5-6 Domains and making them all spontaneous, and getting access to all Divine feats (Ur-Priest can only use the ones that work off Rebuke or Rebuke/Turning; few good ones are Turning-only).

Touche'. Though Archivist with appropriate prc's and feats will trump all.

[Eldariel]

Touche'. Though Archivist with appropriate prc's and feats will trump all.

I dunno, Archivist is kinda awesome, but a bit more limited than Cleric right off the bat (you need to PrC to get Turning and Domains, and you still miss out on the most broken Arcane spells without work), and on level 20 doesn't hold that many huge advantages over them other than Dark Knowledge. Getting to Dweomerkeeper, for example, is much harder for 'em.

But really, optimally you'd have Artificer around (just for infi cheap items, another caster and easy buffing), and probably a Spells-to-Powers Erudite (as they really have the ability to go infinite pretty easily, and even when not doing that, they can just pull off some busted combos). I just went with core classes for ease of reference (and 'cause they tend to be among the best for everything).

[Wings of Peace]

I dunno, Archivist is kinda awesome, but a bit more limited than Cleric right off the bat (you need to PrC to get Turning and Domains, and you still miss out on the most broken Arcane spells without work), and on level 20 doesn't hold that many huge advantages over them other than Dark Knowledge. Getting to Dweomerkeeper, for example, is much harder for 'em.


True. Archivists are sort of weird since their power depends on how much is available in the campaign. With Hexer cheeze and Alternate Source Spell, Signature spell, and Versatile Spellcaster feats they can do just about anything though. But that's also a scenario I'm not sure many dm's would permit to occur.

[dspeyer]

What is this for? How powerful do you want? How are you generating stats?

[sofawall]

That was possibly the worst OP I've seen.

EDIT: And his second post was little better.

People tend to help more if you use proper English.

[Trodon]

What is this for? How powerful do you want? How are you generating stats?

any power level, it doesn't matter how the stats are generated, its for me to throw at a level 27 necromancer type character

[lsfreak]

any power level, it doesn't matter how the stats are generated, its for me to throw at a level 27 necromancer type character

Uhh... *cough* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115276)...?

[Trodon]

Uhh... *cough* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115276)...?

lol thanks

[Fishy]

... This game's going to suck.

[dspeyer]

Uhh... *cough* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115276)...?

Well spotted.

And yikes! An epic spellcaster who reads these boards. I think planar shepard and incantrix are justified here, along with 56 point buy.

[dspeyer]

How about a factotum / archivist / sacred exorcist / spymaster with dmm persisted glibness (find a divine bard with scribe scroll)? This character does not appear to be part of the party, but rather the BBEG's top lieutenant.

I'm not sure what the best factotum / archivist balance is. Sacred exorcist is a one-level dip for turn undead. Make sure to take spymaster all seven levels to defy *all* divination magic.

[Wings of Peace]

How about a factotum / archivist / sacred exorcist / spymaster with dmm persisted glibness (find a divine bard with scribe scroll)? This character does not appear to be part of the party, but rather the BBEG's top lieutenant.

I'm not sure what the best factotum / archivist balance is. Sacred exorcist is a one-level dip for turn undead. Make sure to take spymaster all seven levels to defy *all* divination magic.

I thwart all your protections by gating in an elemental weird and having it divine as a free action to figure out all places that your spy master is not. :smalltongue:

On a more serious note how about a Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/bloodstorm blade 4/Master Thrower 5 as a halfling permanently shrunk to one size category smaller. 22 attacks per round as touch attacks that trip. Don't forget to take Shadow Blade feat for dex mod to damage to make up for your lack of str bonus. For epic level combat seems relatively fair.

[dspeyer]

I thwart all your protections by gating in an elemental weird and having it divine as a free action to figure out all places that your spy master is not. :smalltongue:

You know *where* he is. He's right at your side. You don't know that he's your enemy.


On a more serious note how about a Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/bloodstorm blade 4/Master Thrower 5 as a halfling permanently shrunk to one size category smaller. 22 attacks per round as touch attacks that trip. Don't forget to take Shadow Blade feat for dex mod to damage to make up for your lack of str bonus. For epic level combat seems relatively fair.

How effective are thrown weapons against ethereal enemies?

[Wings of Peace]

You know *where* he is. He's right at your side. You don't know that he's your enemy.



How effective are thrown weapons against ethereal enemies?

To Point 1.) You still have infinite divinations per round since speaking and divining for a Weird are both free actions. Following RAW (And yes I realize this is blatant abuse) you could still ask enough careful questions to find out the person next to you is a bad guy. Though I doubt most dms will let you converse for an infinite (Or substantially large) amount of questions.

To Point 2.) This is true for most weapon wielders without enchantment. Though depending on how your dm reads things Force Property weapons could potentially be used to strike ethereal creatures as they are vulnerable to force effects.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Gray Elf, Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler +14, Versatile Spellcaster (1), Font of Life (3), Mindsight (6), Rapid Metamagic (9), Quicken Spell (12), Improved Toughness (15), Darkstalker (18); Advanced Learning: Ray of Stupidity (3), Shadow Form (7), Greater Shadow Conjuration (11), Superior Invisibility (15), Greater Shadow Evocation (19). This is the party skillmonkey, and versatile enough to solve just about any noncombat challenge. Switch out Superior Invisibility for Ice Assassin if you want to go super-cheesy.

Illumian (Vaul-anything), Cleric of Pelor 5/ Morninglord of Pelor 10/ Radiant Servant of Pelor 5, Improved Turning (1), Extra Turning (3), Empower Turning (6), Extend Spell (9), Persistent Spell (12), Divine Metamagic: Persistent (15), Reach Spell (18); Domains: Sun (1), Healing* (1), Glory (RSoP); *PH2 Spontaneous Domain Casting variant for the Healing domain. Items: Circlet of Persuasion, Phylactery of Undead Turning, Night Sticks, Scepter of the Netherworld, Rod of Defiance, Reliquary Holy Symbol, Ephod of Authority, and anything else that can contribute to your turning ability. There shouldn't be anything undead that he can't one-shot.