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Bosh
2006-03-23, 11:28 AM
The Quiescent Template v3

Flavor: There are the living, the undead and the dead and then there are those that live in the margins. The Quiescent are one of these. They are living creatures who have had preservative spells cast on their organs to slow the processes of age. Although these necromantic spells sustain the Quiescent and become more and more vital as the Quiescent age, the Quiescent are not quite undead and still need to eat, drink and breathe as do mortals. However, the share many trails with the undead and are often confused with them.

The Quiescent appear little different from creatures of their base race, except for a marked pallor and strangly ageless features.

Traits:

Unless specifically stated below, standard undead traits do not apply to the Quiescent. The Quiescent retain all of the traits of their original race unless specifically stated otherwise below.

Alignment: Any. Although few Quiescent have good alignments, exceptions exist.

Ability Adjustments: -2 wisdom, -2 charisma. The Quiescent are increasingly out of touch with their fellow creatures and the world around them.

Undead Type: For the purposes of spells and spell-like effects, the Quiescent qualify as the undead type rather than as their original type.

Undead Healing: healing magic harms rather than heals the Quiescent, instead they are healed by having inflict spells cast on them. If a Quiescent does not engage in any strenuous activity for a period of eight hours (i.e. no traveling or any kind of work that requires any concentration) it regenerates 2 hit points thanks to the preservative spells cast on its organs.

Preserved Organs: The Quiescent have a 25% chance of avoiding extra damage from sneak attacks and other forms of precision damage.

Undead Resistance: The Quiescent are immune to disease and energy drain and receive a +2 bonus to all saving throws against poison, sleep effects, paralysis, nausea, ability drain and alll mind-effecting spells and spell-like abilities.

Raising the Undead: Raise dead and reincarnate spells and abilities do not affect the Quiescent. Resurrection and True Resurrection dispell the perservative spells that have been cast on the organs of the Quiescent and return them to the land of the living as the living creatures that they originally were.

At Death’s Door: The Quiescent function as living creatures when reduced to negative hit points. However any heal check used to stabilize them has a +10 DC.

Self Sufficiency: The Quiescent can go thrice as long as their base race without eating, breathing or sleeping without feeling any ill effects. They also only require a third as much food, air, water or sleep as their base race. Furthermore, while the Quiescent still age they do so at one third of the normal rate. Although their bodies still require sustenance, the preservative spells that have been cast on their organs make the Quiescent less dependent on such things. The Quiescent are also incapable of conceiving offspring.

Class Incompatibility: The Quiescent cannot take levels of paladin or druid, paladins and druids who become Quiescent automatically become ex-paladins and druids.

Darkvision: Darkvision to 60 feet.

Severe Light Sensitivity: When in the presence of daylight or bright light generated by magic (such as the daylight spell), the Quiescent become dazzled and suffer a -1 penalty to attack roles and search and spot checks. This is a magical effect and cannot be countered by any mundane means such as protective eye gear. In addition, sunlight causes the skin of the Quiescent to burn and blister, which causes the Quiescent to suffer 1 HP/hour damage in the presence of daylight if any significant amount of their flesh is exposed. In other words, mundane protection keeps them from being damaged by doesn't prevent the Quiescent from being dazzled.

Turning Resistance: The Quiescent can be turned as other undead but are treated as a creature with two additional hit dice for the purposes of turning.

Undead Affinity: The Quiescent receive a +2 bonus to diplomacy, sense motive, intimidate, bluff, and turning checks to rebuke or command (but not turn) undead. In addition, they rebuke or command undead as a cleric who is one level higher than they are.

Yuki Akuma
2006-03-23, 12:00 PM
It's a bit strong to be +0 LA. Perhaps +1. The turning resistance, lesser fortification for free, and an ability that works like a more powerful Ring of Sustinance is more powerful than you'd think. Not having to breathe is an especially powerful ability, you know, as it makes them immune to inhaled poisons and other air pollutants. And they can go underwater or into vacuum whenever they like.

Azrael
2006-03-23, 12:17 PM
There's just too many abilities, certainly for a +0LA. And it doesn't seem cohesive to me. This is a partially undead creature, but it is still alive and still have a constitution.

So instead of getting all the benefits of Undeath plus some a few extra abilites and penalties, try starting with what the Undead template would give you, and subtract out the things that are directly related to not having a constitution, because you're dead.

Basically, I'm suggesting a re-write.

Bosh
2006-03-23, 12:20 PM
Hmmm, hadn't thought of that re: the lack of breathing, but since they're poison proof ANYWAY I didn't think that was a big idea. Hmmmmm...

I'm not sure how powerful turning resistance is since being able to be turned is an added vulnerability.

FWIW I was planning to use this as an elf-only template for my homebrew, which makes it somewhat less powerful...

Bosh
2006-03-23, 12:25 PM
And it doesn't seem cohesive to me. This is a partially undead creature, but it is still alive and still have a constitution.
As far as that goes, what I did was take the warforged racial abilities and undeadized them and made them slightly weaker. Basically just like a warforged is a partially construct creature, but it is still alive etc. this does basically the same thing for undead. I REALLY want to keep this to +0.

Thematically I want this thingie to be more of a mortal attempting to cheat death then something that is a full-blown undead monster. Maybe I should remove the "do not need to eat, breathe or sleep" bit and have their organs magically preserved but still functional and necessary...

Or possibly maybe the thing to do would be to balance it more directly against the warforged by having a character who takes this template lose a lot their pre-existing racial abilities.

Hmmmmm

Thomas
2006-03-23, 12:37 PM
I'd start working down from the Corpse Creature template in BoVD.

Drop the natural armor bonus, slam attack, and maybe lower the stat modifiers to +2 Str, -2 Dex; then you're left with the undead type & traits, darkvision 60 ft., d12 HD regardless of class. Since the original is CR +1 (no LA given, 3.0 book), I'd imagine this would make it playable enough. Being undead averages out to a huge advantage, what with all the immunities etc., so no other racial abilities should be necessary.

The various undead monster classes in Libris Mortis all get the undead type and relevant advantages at 1st level, so I can't imagine it can be considered all that unbalancing. (In fact, a wight with no wight levels is more powerful than the above.)

If further tweaking is required, ditch the d12 HD, and have them use class HD instead. (That'd seem to be in keeping with the way the monster classes work?)

Thomas
2006-03-23, 12:40 PM
Thematically I want this thingie to be more of a mortal attempting to cheat death then something that is a full-blown undead monster. Maybe I should remove the "do not need to eat, breathe or sleep" bit and have their organs magically preserved but still functional and necessary...

Give them no racial abilities (except, maybe, darkvision 60 ft.), but give them the four Tomb-Tainted feats from Libris Mortis as racial bonus feats or somesuch. Tomb-Born Fortitude, Tomb-Born Resilience, Tomb-Born Vitality, and Tomb-Tainted Soul. They get 25% fortification, heal from negative and are damaged by positive energy, need no sleep and are immune to such effects, do not eat, and have a bonus to saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, and disease. They'll also look pallid, thin, and unpleasant.

stainboy
2006-03-23, 12:40 PM
Looks balanced to me, assuming a setting where clerics will recognize these things and use their anti-undead spells and abilities accordingly.

I think it'd be easier to treat quiescent as their own race though, and assume all PC quiescent are human. Granted, that takes away the option to play a quiescent gnome, or a quiescent axiomatic bullywug, but the human racials are the easiest to replace.

That would let you go easier on the stat penalties. The penalties to two of three "caster" stats take out some interesting options, most notably quiescent clerics.

Thomas
2006-03-23, 12:42 PM
Yet another option. Use the Necropolitan template from Libris Mortis, but lose the abilities Resist Control and, maybe, Turn Resistance. This should remove the (virtual) level adjustment of +1.

On the other hand, you could just as well use Necropolitan straight out. They're mortals who use an unholy ritual to cheat death. The ritual costs those undertaking it one level and 1,000 XP (somewhat like being raised from the dead), which makes up for the abilities gained.

Bosh
2006-03-23, 12:50 PM
d12 HD regardless of class
Don't really care for that. It would make the template MUCH MUCH better for certain classes than others.


The various undead monster classes in Libris Mortis all get the undead type and relevant advantages at 1st level, so I can't imagine it can be considered all that unbalancing.
Including immunity to sneak attacks etc.? That's DAMN powerful.


bonus to saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, and disease
That's a good thought, more bonuses, less immunities. That'd lower the power a bit while keeping the flavor I want (dancing on the edge of undeath but still at least technically alive).


Looks balanced to me, assuming a setting where clerics will recognize these things and use their anti-undead spells and abilities accordingly.
Yeah, some of those could really put it in a world of hurt. There's lot of anti-undead spells out there.


That would let you go easier on the stat penalties. The penalties to two of three "caster" stats take out some interesting options, most notably quiescent clerics.
Right. I'd like quiescent clerics to be viable. Only problem is that for my homebrew these thingies would be exclusively elf (nasty quasi-Melnibornean elves) and I want to make sure that it would be balanced across the board. So because its a template and not a race I'll have to take down the power a notch.

ScorpiusRisk
2006-03-23, 12:59 PM
I think it would be fine if you took away their base racial abilites. Though the self suffiency seems a little too powerful.

Question: Though they do not need to sleep do spell casters still need 8 hours of 'rest' to put their minds at ease.

hewhosaysfish
2006-03-23, 01:11 PM
I think the thing about changing to d12 HD is only for racial HD, not class levels.
That's how it works fo othwr undead and half-dragons and whatnot.

Bosh
2006-03-23, 01:11 PM
I have weakened the Quiescent's self-sufficiency and resistances while giving them another boost to their rebuke and command undead abilities (to make Quiescent clerics viable despite the wisdom stat penalty). Hopefully they are a balanced 0 LA template now.

ScorpiusRisk
2006-03-23, 01:22 PM
I like it. I like it enough to steal.

Thomas
2006-03-23, 01:47 PM
I think the thing about changing to d12 HD is only for racial HD, not class levels.
That's how it works fo othwr undead and half-dragons and whatnot.

Not exactly. When a 13th-level cleric becomes a lich, the lich's HD are 13d12. Most PC races don't have racial HD, and liches wouldn't be very frightening at all if their hp cap at level 20 were 80.

But when a fourth-level wight multiclasses into rogue, it's HD are 4d12+1d6. (I think. Hope? Believe...)

SilverElf4
2006-03-23, 03:14 PM
It looks good to me now, though I would tighten up the wording a great deal (ie - under "Preserved Organs" what all counts as precision damage?) and I would go into greater detail regarding the procedure and background of these creatures as well.

In addition, is there an alignment changes? An LG Paladin that undergoes this becomes and Ex-Paladin, but is he still LG?

ETA: I believe Thomas is right - the Dread Necromancer, for example rerolls his HP with d12's upon becoming a Lich at level 20.

Rei_Jin
2006-03-23, 03:44 PM
It's a nice balance. Whether or not it is actually balanced though, I'm not sure. The abilities are somewhat similar to what a cross between a Dwarf and a Warforged have.

That's a horrific image. The child of a Dwarf and a Warforged. *Shudder*

Now I'm never going to be able to sleep again. :'(

Bug-a-Boo
2006-03-23, 03:46 PM
It's a nice balance. Whether or not it is actually balanced though, I'm not sure. The abilities are somewhat similar to what a cross between a Dwarf and a Warforged have.

That's a horrific image. The child of a Dwarf and a Warforged. *Shudder*

Now I'm never going to be able to sleep again. :'(


That's nothing. Ever wondered what the ofspring of a dwarf and a tri-keen would look like?

Splendor
2006-03-23, 03:51 PM
At first I thought it was too powerful... Undead type? But then I reread it. Undead type one in reguards to spells.

I would lose their penalty to Wis. Overall their weaker then alot of races. Their fine. I might play one for style but not for any whoring reasons.

Tomada
2006-03-23, 04:21 PM
Well, as undead I think they won't die of old age, now will they?

So, you could make it, that they won't die of old age, but still get older. They will advance the age categories(and receive the mods for that), but when they reach their maximum lifetime, they won't die. But will not be ressurectable anymore.

That and I think you could add a bonus of some sort, now.

One category larger hit die, perhaps? And no CON bonus? Or larger HD with CON bonus? Or another thing? Don't know

Rei_Jin
2006-03-23, 04:24 PM
From the feel of the race, I'd say that they age at half the rate of their original race. Their organs have some preservative in them, but they still need to eat and they can take precision damage.

So you double the age categories for them, and call it done. You also give them the option that when they die they can become an undead equal to their hitdie, or one with less hitdie and retain some of their class levels. Gives it a nice flavor, and at that point the player loses control of his character for it to become a very flavorful NPC or BBEG.

Bosh
2006-03-23, 08:13 PM
It looks good to me now, though I would tighten up the wording a great deal (ie - under "Preserved Organs" what all counts as precision damage?) and I would go into greater detail regarding the procedure and background of these creatures as well.
Yeah, gotta do that.

They fill a nice niche of the "not quite undead" :)


I would lose their penalty to Wis. Overall their weaker then alot of races. Their fine. I might play one for style but not for any whoring reasons.
Its not that weak, since the template is applied on top of normal racial traits. So a Quiescent human would still get bonus feats and skill points and all that jazz.


So, you could make it, that they won't die of old age, but still get older. They will advance the age categories(and receive the mods for that), but when they reach their maximum lifetime, they won't die. But will not be ressurectable anymore.
That's interesting flavor wise. Death isn't that easy to cheat...


Their organs have some preservative in them, but they still need to eat and they can take precision damage.

So you double the age categories for them, and call it done. You also give them the option that when they die they can become an undead equal to their hitdie, or one with less hitdie and retain some of their class levels. Gives it a nice flavor, and at that point the player loses control of his character for it to become a very flavorful NPC or BBEG.
Excellent flavor ideas. I'll have to think those over.

Bosh
2006-03-26, 10:29 AM
made a few more changes.