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Rosc Man
2009-06-18, 03:54 AM
So I'm in this Changeling game, see. And there are a few issues I was scratching my head over.

1) First, Harvesting Emotions. It's simple enough to use performance, intimidation, or some other talent to draw emotions out of people. But are Changelings able to draw Glamour out of the emotions of people that are not feeling things as a direct result of his or her manipulations? For example, is it possible to simply walk past a married couple having an argument and soak up delicious anger?

2) Contract of Elements, dot 2. It's nice, sure. But an odd thing I noticed was that it said nothing at all about multiple uses of different elemental barriers. Would it be possible to throw up personal shields of, say, Earth, Fire and Glass at the same time?

3) Range. Several contracts and clauses are vague in rulings, but the most notable culprit is Eternal Spring dot 3. This is that one dot that can and will save your motley, and yet you have no idea if you need to touch a target to heal them? Or maybe be in the same room? Or anywhere in the world? Here's a fun though. Imagine using Eternal Spring dot 1 on someone twice a day, so they feel fully rested all the time, so they never sleep.

I have plenty more, but these are the ones that stand out and aren't as silly as my random ideas. (Lookin' at you, Mirror dot 5.)

Revlid
2009-06-18, 07:48 AM
1) First, Harvesting Emotions. It's simple enough to use performance, intimidation, or some other talent to draw emotions out of people. But are Changelings able to draw Glamour out of the emotions of people that are not feeling things as a direct result of his or her manipulations? For example, is it possible to simply walk past a married couple having an argument and soak up delicious anger?

Yes. A Changeling getting Glamour from the sadness of a funeral or the cheap scares of a horror movie are two examples noted in the book.

Project_Mayhem
2009-06-18, 07:53 AM
w/ regards to 1 - I think the RAW likes you to roll each time, like feeding in VtR. I personally would disregard that unless your actively trying to draw the emotions out though. Can't help you on your other questions without my rulebook though.

Incidently, whats your character concept?

Rosc Man
2009-06-18, 02:54 PM
Shame that. Our ST rules that you have to personally drag the emotion out of them. Makes it a bit harder to get glamour. Still, there are other ways to focus on getting that next fix.

As for concepts, right now I'm playing a Summer Court Fairest, a warrior woman who's also a skilled Hedge farmer and has a fair eye for working the goblin markets to sell her crops. Here's the Obsidian Portal statblock:
http://www.obsidianportal.com/character/36407

I've got a half dozen other concepts for characters as well. Not sure which one I would play if Rose died.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification. Any say on the other questions?

horus42
2009-06-18, 10:03 PM
2) Contract of Elements, dot 2. It's nice, sure. But an odd thing I noticed was that it said nothing at all about multiple uses of different elemental barriers. Would it be possible to throw up personal shields of, say, Earth, Fire and Glass at the same time?

I think that with this one, you can only use the Element connected to your kith. If you're a fireheart, it's a wall of fire, if you're a snowskin it's a wall of ice, etc. If you're kithless, I have no clue. I would rule that you could only use one.


3) Range. Several contracts and clauses are vague in rulings, but the most notable culprit is Eternal Spring dot 3. This is that one dot that can and will save your motley, and yet you have no idea if you need to touch a target to heal them? Or maybe be in the same room? Or anywhere in the world? Here's a fun though. Imagine using Eternal Spring dot 1 on someone twice a day, so they feel fully rested all the time, so they never sleep.

If no range is specified, I usually do this: if they're in your line of sight, it's all good. If not, then they're out of luck.

Rosc Man
2009-06-19, 03:57 AM
Actually Horus, there is no limitation on Elements based upon your Kith. No hard rules at all. Heck, a Fireheart could take Elements (Earth) as one of his starting contracts and be able to surround himself with deadly rocks, technically. Though it's unusual to say the least.

It would be a shame if some houserule or FAQ "fixed" it so that the second dot of the contract would be impossible to use on a discounted re-purchasing of Elements. Dot 4 already makes Dot 3 useless as is....

smellie_hippie
2009-06-19, 09:31 AM
Soooo folks playing Changeling. I've been trying to start a game and having some concerns about the 'world setup'. It was always easy to run Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/hunter games, but this system seems different. I've been a WoD storyteller since 1st edition Vampire, so I have confidence in running the system.

I'm pictuing the game as fairly 'horror genre' with suspense and fear of abduction around every corner... but don't want to overplay this aspect.

Any chance we could throw out some general ideas, whilst also discussing specific rules questions?

Krrth
2009-06-19, 09:35 AM
Soooo folks playing Changeling. I've been trying to start a game and having some concerns about the 'world setup'. It was always easy to run Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/hunter games, but this system seems different. I've been a WoD storyteller since 1st edition Vampire, so I have confidence in running the system.

I'm pictuing the game as fairly 'horror genre' with suspense and fear of abduction around every corner... but don't want to overplay this aspect.

Any chance we could throw out some general ideas, whilst also discussing specific rules questions?

Best way I can think of to explain it: Become familiar with Grim's Fairytales. Be very, very careful of what you wish for.


edit: If you have questions, ask 'em. I'm quite sure someone here can answer them.

horus42
2009-06-19, 12:52 PM
Yeah, there isn't an actual limitation. I always just kind of assumed that it would be the element you're associated with, but you're right. It really doesn't have to be.

As for ideas for Smellie Hippie Hm... I've always enjoyed the idea of the Scarecrow Ministry bringing Urban legends to life. It fits with the horror ness, and there are already plenty of ideas available.

smellie_hippie
2009-06-22, 11:36 AM
I have an idea about bringing the characters out from their abduction as a group with some indiviudal side-bar conversation for more personalized detail. Going for the whole 'we're all lost together' kinda theme.

I was also thinking of bringing out a second troupe, but with a much more malevolent attitude, and finding that there freeholds in the region have a history of 'loyalists' causing havoc. Set-up for an excellent motley vs motley kind of campaign.

opinions?

Project_Mayhem
2009-06-22, 11:45 AM
I've been thinking about running Changeling taking influence from and blended with 'Neverwhere'. Set in York below :smallbiggrin: Because thats where I live. Well, York I mean. I'm not a sewer person

smellie_hippie
2009-06-23, 06:06 AM
Any combination of kiths that players might use to maximize their party potential? Or on the other hand, any kiths that just should not be excluded from the party composition?

Friv
2009-06-23, 11:42 AM
Soooo folks playing Changeling. I've been trying to start a game and having some concerns about the 'world setup'. It was always easy to run Vampire/Werewolf/Mage/hunter games, but this system seems different. I've been a WoD storyteller since 1st edition Vampire, so I have confidence in running the system.

I'm pictuing the game as fairly 'horror genre' with suspense and fear of abduction around every corner... but don't want to overplay this aspect.

Any chance we could throw out some general ideas, whilst also discussing specific rules questions?

The best way to play up or down the horror aspect of Lost is to decide how large functional your freehold is. Changeling organization is generally more like Mage and less like Vampire, in that they have enough external enemies that they're usually actually going to work together. If you have eighty or ninety changelings in a city, and they're part of a functional freehold, it means that you actually have backup. If you get in trouble with the cops, the fact that another changeling works as a forensic mortician is really going to help you out.

On the other hand, in a freehold where you can't depend on your fellows and your motley is your only backup, or where there are only twenty or so changelings in total, things are much more panicky. Your back's up against the wall, and you're more likely to wind up having to make deals that aren't nearly as good ideas.

*EDIT* As far as kiths go, combinations aren't really as important in a changeling game. Seeming-wise, it's always nice to have a Fairest in the party, due to their overwhelming social might, and the amount of tricks that elementals can get up to with their Contracts makes them a very valuable addition. Usually, I find that it seems to be the Wizened who get left by the wayside.

Semidi
2009-06-23, 01:34 PM
Actually, Changeling can be an extremely internal game like Vampire. Remember, Changelings are the most paranoid things on the planet. Everything might be out to get them and bring them back to Arcadia. This includes other changelings who are spies in the freehold. I would recommend setting a few of them up as NPCs (or PCs) in a freehold to act as spies and loyalists. Also, changelings are very motley oriented, as their motley are the only ones they can somewhat trust; this brings about motley rivalry.

Horror aspect:

The Hedge: it's a terrifying and dangerous place. It's completely random, changes on a whim, and anything you can imagine could be hiding there. Really, go hog wild with this place. Maybe the changelings need an artifact hidden at the bottom of a cave with a maze that constantly changes? Perhaps they need to bargain for something from a hobgoblin who wants to enslave them. That sort of thing.

The real world: it's the world of darkness, and changelings are one of the weakest supernaturals. Hell, hunters out of Hunter: the Vigil are stronger. Imagine all the mages and vampires that would want a changeling to experiment on.

Seemings/Kiths:

Really anything, but changeling is set up in such a way that each of the different courts provide different skill sets.

Spring are socialites, summer are warriors, fall are occultists, and winter are spies, rogues, assassins, and people keeping their head down.

So your best bet will be a social character, some fighters, a rogue, and an occultist. In other words, Spring, summer, winter, and fall. They each have their own skill set which attract them to that court.

Seeming/Kith doesn't play a huge part because I've seen just about every combination in every court. There's nothing saying that a Wizend has to be a slouch in combat or an ogre can't be a socialite.


3) Range. Several contracts and clauses are vague in rulings, but the most notable culprit is Eternal Spring dot.

I've seen this one played as "touching" but it's up to ST discretion.


any kiths that just should not be excluded from the party composition?

Ogres are insanely useful as they have the potential to be one of the most combat effective characters in WoD (Contracts of Stone are awesome). I'm building one at the moment that should have the potential to get around a 16 brawl score if not more.

Mirrorskins (darkling kith) have one of the most useful and awesome kith abilities.

Elementals are extremely useful when they encounter their elements are are then immune to it.

Honestly, it doesn't matter all that much. As I said earlier, I'd balance it more on court affiliation rather than seeming/kith.


I was also thinking of bringing out a second troupe, but with a much more malevolent attitude, and finding that there freeholds in the region have a history of 'loyalists' causing havoc. Set-up for an excellent motley vs motley kind of campaign.


Sounds like a good idea.

Karma Guard
2009-06-23, 02:20 PM
Make certain your players also remember how messed-up their characters are. It's the same problem with Unknown Armies; being a changeling is just going to screw with your psyche.

Considering how the game works, though, it shouldn't be as big a problem as I've seen in some D20 games. (My brother is like my opposite; he's crunch, I'm fluff, so I deal with that a lot.)



The Hedge: it's a terrifying and dangerous place. It's completely random, changes on a whim, and anything you can imagine could be hiding there. Really, go hog wild with this place. Maybe the changelings need an artifact hidden at the bottom of a cave with a maze that constantly changes? Perhaps they need to bargain for something from a hobgoblin who wants to enslave them. That sort of thing.

Not only that, but your own fear fuels it becoming more frightening. It's aware and affected by your mind.

smellie_hippie
2009-06-24, 09:28 PM
Got another quick question...

I was thinking of having my troupe actually just make a WoD 'regular joe' character. Spend points on attributes and abilities, virtue/vice, background concept and such as a normal person. Then I would lead a series of questions that would draw out some more of the Changeling aspects that would direct them towards a suitable Court/Seeming/Kith for said characters.

Good idea?

I may also use this as the actual first session of the game. Create 'basic' characters, be abducted, talk about Arcadia briefly with the group, talk with each individually about their torment and subsequent escape from Arcadia... and then wrap up with spending the rest of their points for their Changeling aspects.

horus42
2009-06-24, 09:59 PM
Got another quick question...

I was thinking of having my troupe actually just make a WoD 'regular joe' character. Spend points on attributes and abilities, virtue/vice, background concept and such as a normal person. Then I would lead a series of questions that would draw out some more of the Changeling aspects that would direct them towards a suitable Court/Seeming/Kith for said characters.

Good idea?

I may also use this as the actual first session of the game. Create 'basic' characters, be abducted, talk about Arcadia briefly with the group, talk with each individually about their torment and subsequent escape from Arcadia... and then wrap up with spending the rest of their points for their Changeling aspects.

I like this idea, and have done so before. It tends to work out really well, and the players usually have tons of fun. And it works with the other games too. Just make a normal WoD character, and then during the course of the first session or two, they become a supernatural creature that's closest to what they are, or would be the most fun depending on the type of character they made.

In short, I support this idea.

smellie_hippie
2009-07-01, 08:12 AM
Have you all found that the 'dream-scaping' takes out a lot from the group activity and adds too much to side bar roleplaying for one person in the motley?
...and how much combat time do your motley's actually face? This is a paranoid kinda game with a few 'heavy hitters', but it's not a dungeon crawl. After playing Werewolf and Exalted for several years, the session usually is considered 'complete' after the BBEG... or the fight leading up to it.

I was also considering adding the 'stunt' aspect tot he game from Exalted. Not for huge anime descriptions of moves, but just for added detail description or something like that...

This is all discussion I'm getting from you all before I actually start my campaign. I'll let you know how it progresses, and hope to be starting in the next couple of weeks...

smellie_hippie
2009-07-03, 09:46 AM
Partly as a shameless bump, but also having another question to ask.

How wide an age spectrum do you have in your motleys? The abduction to Faerie can last for what appears to be an hour to a decade or more... do you find that having older changelings along with child-like changelings to be a problem?

horus42
2009-07-03, 11:29 AM
I'll go ahead and take a crack at your questions. I do find that dream-scaping seems to focus the attention on one person, but I've only ever run two changeling stories, and only one dealt with dream-scaping very much.

As for combat, I tend to make it a large chunk of my stories, but certainly not the focal point. Although that's what my players tend to like, and it might not work for yours.

Adding stunts would be cool, and I think changeling actually has rules for that, right? Although they normally only apply to thinks taking place in dreams, you could still use them while the characters are awake too.

And the age issue: my players tend to make everyone around the same age, but on times when they don't, the age differences tends to lead to some good roleplaying, so I don't really see it as an issue.