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Lysander
2009-06-18, 10:09 AM
Bringing a slain ally back from the dead could be a trap thanks to this wicked spell:

False Resurrection
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One corpse
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell is cast on the dead remains of a creature to forever prevent them from being resurrected from those remains. It does not prevent True Resurrection from bringing them back, or Raise Dead or Resurrection being cast on a separate piece of the corpse the spell was not cast on.

If Raise Dead or Resurrection is cast on the affected corpse it instead binds an evil spirit in the repaired body, who will pose as the person and attempt to cause as much wickedness as possible. The false person has the appearance, stats and memories of the original, but only one half of the character levels rounded down. Powers granted by divine forces cannot be used by impostors, such as a cleric or druid's spells. The impostor will try to hide or explain away its reduced power as long as possible to maintain its charade. A Familiar or Animal Companion of the real person will automatically know it's a false person and try to warn their allies.

A False Resurrected creature is not undead or even necessarily supernatural, but has a strong aura of evil and magic. They have no loyalty to anyone, not even the caster of the False Resurrection, existing only to cause as much suffering and death as possible. They are obsessed with the original person's life however, and will try to thwart their goals and harm their friends, even if it means giving up a chance to cause a greater evil unrelated to them.

A person can only have one False Resurrected impostor of them in existence at a time. If the impostor is killed, casting raise dead or resurrection on their remains will bring them back and not the real person, unless Wish or Miracle is cast on the corpse first to remove the False Resurrection.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-18, 10:19 AM
Oooh, that's eeeevil. I love it. One question though: what kind of evil spirit is it? Demon? Devil? Yugoloth? Shade? Wraith? Something unique?

Lysander
2009-06-18, 10:24 AM
Oooh, that's eeeevil. I love it. One question though: what kind of evil spirit is it? Demon? Devil? Yugoloth? Shade? Wraith? Something unique?

It's an evil spirit, but otherwise functions exactly like a human soul. You can imagine it as a spirit that was never born and has been trapped in a hellish limbo since the dawn of time, then suddenly found itself gaining the memories and body of a creature it automatically hates and wants to utterly ruin.

TengYt
2009-06-18, 10:26 AM
Ooh, very nice idea. I like it.

RMS Oceanic
2009-06-18, 10:29 AM
What would happen if the victim was, for example, decaptiated, his colleagues resurrected his contaminated body, while somebody else resurrected his clean head? Evil twin fight!

Does the spirit gain any special powers apart from giving Paladins nosebleeds from their Evil aura?

Lysander
2009-06-18, 10:35 AM
What would happen if the victim was, for example, decaptiated, his colleagues resurrected his contaminated body, while somebody else resurrected his clean head? Evil twin fight!

Does the spirit gain any special powers apart from giving Paladins nosebleeds from their Evil aura?

You could create an evil twin fight this way! However the evil twin would only be half as powerful, so it would have to rely on trickery to win - perhaps fooling allies into attacking the wrong one.

The spirit only has the powers granted by half the person's levels, and their memories, but has no other superhuman abilities. For all intents and purposes they are a normal human being (or other race).

RMS Oceanic
2009-06-18, 10:38 AM
Ah, OK. I would probably extend that loss of Divine Power thing to affected Paladins as well.

DracoDei
2009-06-18, 10:43 AM
I favor either "Roll randomly" or "Necromancer's Pick" from that list rather than any specific one... Or maybe linked to alignment, so NE casters get a yugoloth, CE casters get a demon, and LE casters get a devil... the rare neutral casters get a sworn member (peon, not one of the three leaders) of the IFCC.

Lysander
2009-06-18, 10:46 AM
Ah, OK. I would probably extend that loss of Divine Power thing to affected Paladins as well.

Yes, basically any power granted by an outside entity goes away. That would include a Druid's spells too. Unless that deity or force would want to empower an evil copy that has no loyalty to it, which is unlikely even for an evil deity.

DracoDei
2009-06-18, 11:09 AM
I favor either "Roll randomly" or "Necromancer's Pick" from that list rather than any specific one... Or maybe linked to alignment, so NE casters get a yugoloth, CE casters get a demon, and LE casters get a devil... the rare neutral casters get a sworn member (peon, not one of the three leaders) of the IFCC.



EDIT: Not sure if the forces of nature would care... be up to the individual GM if Rangers and Druids keep there powers... Assasains? There copies might actually get bonus spells or something if they are fluffed as getting them from an outside source (which I don't think they do).

Lysander
2009-06-18, 11:27 AM
EDIT: Not sure if the forces of nature would care... be up to the individual GM if Rangers and Druids keep there powers... Assasains? There copies might actually get bonus spells or something if they are fluffed as getting them from an outside source (which I don't think they do).

Nature would probably care because a druid impostor would no longer revere nature. In fact, since original loves nature, it would want to harm nature. This could also apply to evil religions - an impostor of an evil cleric would want to destroy temples and altars to the deity that cleric reveres. Potentially an impostor of an evil person could temporarily cause good side effects, but ultimately they want to harm everything and everyone.

I also added something to the spell's limitations: only one evil copy can exist at a time. It would be broken if someone could cut a body into twenty pieces and create twenty evil copies of a person!

Set
2009-06-18, 11:30 AM
This is a cool idea!

It might be interesting to give the ressurected person the stats of a Fiendish or Half-Fiendish variation on the original person (but physically appearing identical to it's in life appearance, so no wings or obvious claws / fangs or visible scales), to represent the new fiendish entity infesting the body.

Alternately, instead of calling up a fiend, perhaps the soul of an evil individual languishing in the lower planes is instead 'tied' to the body, and when the ressurection spell comes calling, the evil soul is instead called up, free at last! Reincarnation in reverse, the house remains the same, but there's somebody completely new living inside... The spell might be granted by Archdevils / Demon Lords / evil gods, etc. to allow some of their faithful a new lease on life, or as a sort of 'work-release program' to let a particularly wicked soul come back to the material world to wreak some new havoc or complete some plot that got interrupted by pesky adventurers.

(The ideal dramatic situation is for the BBEG from the last adventure, whom the party slew before he could complete the Ritual of Badness, to come back, *in the raised body of one of the people who slew him,* to take another stab at completing the Ritual!)

There could even be tweaks on this.

Instead of a spell, perhaps there's a special place in the woods, where standing stones mark an ancient site where druids bound some unnatural outsider to slumber beneath the earth forever (since they couldn't destroy it, or perhaps couldn't destroy it without unleashing it's taint upon the world!). Those who brush against the stones receive images and hear whispers, and, later, begin to dream vivid dreams of the 'slumbering god' who calls to them from it's ancient prison. Within the circle, the imprisoned evil entity can communicate clearly to slumbering (or drugged) worshippers, and a cult has sprung up, bringing the 'slumbering god' sacrifices in exchange for otherworldly guidance (which mostly consists of encouragements to be selfish and petty and vindictive), hints as to the location of buried treasure (that the beastie left behind) and advice on how to gain power (underhanded advice, and perhaps even awakening sorcerous or adept potential in a follower). Within the circle, the entity can do some harmless prestididation stuff, summon a swarm, and perhaps even unleash some sort of direct attack (perhaps eldritch blasting someone who touches one of the warded stones, so that cultists attempt to bull rush people into the stones, where the 'god' can strike them down), as well as animate those who fall within the circle with a fragment of it's own evil will (zombie stats, but Int 3 and fiendish template advantages and no partial action limitation), but these zombies become normal zombies if they ever leave the standing stones.

The cult of the slumbering god does not have access to ressurection magic, but if anyone is ever ressurected in the circle, the soul of the slumbering god will possess the magically reborn body, and it will once again walk free, slowly warping the body of the ressurected person into the fiendish form it wore originally (perhaps starting with half-fiendish traits). Needless to say, it's cultists will probably be disappointed to find that it's promises of lavishly rewarding them with wishes and riches and dominion over the people who have displeased them and stuff were all a bunch of hoo-ey, as it's just a reasonably powerful demon with some Warlock class levels...

So, replace spell with 'magical location,' and you're good to go. This idea has a ton of potential! Good stuff!

DracoDei
2009-06-18, 11:43 AM
Spell or Location works fine. There is an effect like this in Ebberon when the Plane of Death is near in its orbit...

hiryuu
2009-06-18, 02:50 PM
And that, kids, is why we cast dispel magic and remove curse on every corpse before we try to raise it!

Limos
2009-06-18, 03:34 PM
It says you need to cast a Wish spell or the like to remove the effect. Dispel magic wouldn't accomplish anything.

Shadowbane
2009-06-18, 03:40 PM
I...I love this. A lot. Thank you.

Lysander
2009-06-18, 03:45 PM
It says you need to cast a Wish spell or the like to remove the effect. Dispel magic wouldn't accomplish anything.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of people dispelling corpses before resurrecting them. I think you could dispel it but only before resurrecting it a first time. If you resurrect then kill the impostor, now it's kinda the impostor's body more than your friend's, so you need a Wish or Miracle to fix that. Of course, you'd need Analyze Dweomer to even tell if the Dispel worked.

And nothing prevents someone from secretly killing their enemy, and casting False Resurrection and Resurrection on them, so their allies never even know they died.

Or to be even trickier, cast False Resurrection, Resurrection, then work with the copy to make it look like you kill them in combat, and their corpse was recovered right away before anyone had a chance to cast False Resurrection on it.

Analyze Dweomer doesn't show a spell on the corpse after the copy dies, because the spell is over at that point. It's the impostor's body then.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-18, 04:02 PM
And that, kids, is why we cast dispel magic and remove curse on every corpse before we try to raise it!

And that, kids, is why every bad guy worth his delusions of grandeur has a way to make dispelling a baaaaad idea.

Example:
The most evil trick I've pulled on my players was having one villain capture a PC, put a delay death and boar's ferocity spell on them (which basically means they're immune to HP damage and can act normally), order a few minions to deal enough damage to normally kill him twice over, place something on him looking suspiciously like an Enchantment, erase his memory, and send him back to his party members. The first words out of the wizard's mouth were "We'd better dispel him, just in case"--the spells keeping him alive were wiped out, and to the watching cleric of the local Pelor equivalent, it appeared that he murdered his best friend in cold blood in the god of life's temple.

He was not amused. :smallbiggrin:

thegurullamen
2009-06-18, 05:37 PM
All I have to say is:

This. A thousand times this.

D&D needs more "spirits" and less Outsiders doing this kind of thing. Good job.

boomwolf
2009-06-18, 06:32 PM
Cute, but I'll give it an xp cost-and the evil spirit comes as powerful as it was normally resurrected, because half the level is jest not much of a threat. and its easy to see something is wrong if your revived buddy seems to be incapable to deal with opponents he easily devastated with jest 1 more level.

Lysander
2009-06-18, 07:05 PM
Cute, but I'll give it an xp cost-and the evil spirit comes as powerful as it was normally resurrected, because half the level is jest not much of a threat. and its easy to see something is wrong if your revived buddy seems to be incapable to deal with opponents he easily devastated with jest 1 more level.

The copy couldn't defeat the original in direct combat. But it could cause mischief in a variety of ways:

1) Commit crimes openly to ruin their reputation
2) Kill allies of a much lower level such as friendly npcs
3) Lead allies into a trap, or on wild goose chases to waste their time
4) Serve as an adviser to a BBEG who wants insider info on the good guys
5) Steal the party's treasure/items and run off with it

And an impostor will probably think of clever ways to avoid combat. "You hold off the monster! I'll escort these innocents to safety!"

Yakk
2009-06-18, 07:20 PM
I'd go for more flavour.

Have it require that you trap or bind or negotiate with the possessing spirit (for example, using gate) to get it's service: ie, the spirit must be 'willing'. The spell frees the possessing spirit of any magical obligations above and beyond the possession.

Have the power of the spirit determine how many of the powers that the body had the spirit can emulate. For devils and demons, do something like 2 HD of devil = 1 level of emulation.

Block the resurrection of the original creature while the body is being possessed. The resurrection happens -- the soul is just trapped by the evil spirit when it arrives. The evil spirit then has access to the spells prepared by the original creature (even if they are divine spells!), but may not be able to replace them (if they are granted by some other agent).

<-- extra evil.

chiasaur11
2009-06-18, 07:25 PM
What would happen if the victim was, for example, decaptiated, his colleagues resurrected his contaminated body, while somebody else resurrected his clean head? Evil twin fight!


Well, one party calls the other party "Goody two shoes" while doing a little dance, and the original responds by shooting the other one with a statement of either "I'm not that good." or "Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." depending on if it's the director's cut.

hiryuu
2009-06-18, 09:16 PM
And that, kids, is why every bad guy worth his delusions of grandeur has a way to make dispelling a baaaaad idea.

Example:
The most evil trick I've pulled on my players was having one villain capture a PC, put a delay death and boar's ferocity spell on them (which basically means they're immune to HP damage and can act normally), order a few minions to deal enough damage to normally kill him twice over, place something on him looking suspiciously like an Enchantment, erase his memory, and send him back to his party members. The first words out of the wizard's mouth were "We'd better dispel him, just in case"--the spells keeping him alive were wiped out, and to the watching cleric of the local Pelor equivalent, it appeared that he murdered his best friend in cold blood in the god of life's temple.

He was not amused. :smallbiggrin:

Those spells don't work that way, what they got was an amnesiac who looks like he should be dead, not a corpse, and if there's an enchantment on a dude, why not try to figure out what it is first? Any wizard worth his spellbook is going to figure out what spells are on him, first. Someone has an enchantment aura on him and looks weird? They could have done anything to this dude... but then, my group is used to investigation, weird, dirty tricks, and this sort of conflict.

Lappy9000
2009-06-18, 09:38 PM
I think this spell is fantastic as-is. Even the half-level thing isn't a problem. If the imposter was with the party, they'd likely avoid combat (so not as to blow their cover). On the off-chance they allowed themselves to be drawn into a battle, poor battle prowess is easily hidden by "bad rolls."

ondonaflash
2009-06-18, 10:03 PM
Make give the spell a bit longer a duration. This seems like the kind of villainous plot that should be planned in advance, so it should require ritual preparation of a week beforehand or something like that. And do the xp cost, full level tango. Makes it more threatening and exciting.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-18, 11:44 PM
Response to hiryuu spoiler'd so as not to further derail with what was supposed to be an off-hand comment.


Those spells don't work that way,

Indeed they do. Delay death keeps you alive past -10 and boar's ferocity lets you act when at negative hit points, so for 1 round/level you can't die from HP damage (barring a natural 1 when saving against death by massive damage).


what they got was an amnesiac who looks like he should be dead, not a corpse, and if there's an enchantment on a dude, why not try to figure out what it is first?

I didn't say that he was dead, only that it was something to make dispelling a bad idea--it was an example of anti-dispelling tactics, not a direct analogy to the dispel-the-corpse trick. The BBEG was a known enchanter, so when they saw him walking back seemingly unharmed they dispelled on general principles.


Any wizard worth his spellbook is going to figure out what spells are on him, first.

Nystul's magic aura and various redirect-divination spells. Detect magic did, in fact, reveal an Enchantment aura as I mentioned.


Someone has an enchantment aura on him and looks weird? They could have done anything to this dude... but then, my group is used to investigation, weird, dirty tricks, and this sort of conflict.

Someone seems perfectly normal, protests his innocence, and just happens to have an Enchantment on him (granted, the "looking normal" is illusory, but it doesn't detect as such) when he was recently captured by an enemy enchanter? I'd call that a dispel-first-ask-questions-later situation.

DanielLC
2009-06-18, 11:45 PM
It doesn't seem very useful. The impostor has no loyalty to the caster, so it's not going to try to help him. The other party members could easily beat him in a fight, so the idea might be just to weaken the other party members, but I'd expect the impostor would just find a way to escape when or before he's caught and would cause indiscriminant damage helping nobody.

Fizban
2009-06-19, 03:37 AM
Came expecting generic manicured zombies, found awesome. I'd support leaving it as is: too many things specify random outsiders, it's more disturbing if they're just suddenly not them anymore. I wouldn't make it so you need wish to get them back though, maybe limited wish. Considering that the BBEG likely has access to higher level spells, requiring an even higher level spell than the one he cast is just cruel.

Laurellien
2009-06-19, 03:51 AM
So is it possible to have the evil copy, the resurrected original, a simulacrum, an ice assassin and a clone all running around at the same time?

Dagren
2009-06-19, 04:22 AM
So is it possible to have the evil copy, the resurrected original, a simulacrum, an ice assassin and a clone all running around at the same time?That would be awesome. Why have a regular game of Spot the Impostor when you can have a 5-way one? :smallbiggrin:

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-19, 08:12 AM
So is it possible to have the evil copy, the resurrected original, a simulacrum, an ice assassin and a clone all running around at the same time?

Yes. Just make sure the simulacrum and/or ice assassin can also cast false resurrection, so every time one of them drops, you get a new evil spirit.

Bonus points if the original character is a Red Wizard or other circle magic type. Five wizards go into a locked room to perform their ceremony for the day...which one comes out?

paddyfool
2009-06-19, 08:28 AM
So is it possible to have the evil copy, the resurrected original, a simulacrum, an ice assassin and a clone all running around at the same time?

I can trump that. The above five all meet, and get stuck in a kind of mexican stand-off. A sneaky lackey of the big bad persuades the party to let him try his "mirror of truth" to show who the real bloke is, and who the imitators, and promptly spawns one opposed copy of each of them before teleporting away. Or does the mirror of opposition not work that way?

Lysander
2009-06-19, 09:47 AM
I can trump that. The above five all meet, and get stuck in a kind of mexican stand-off. A sneaky lackey of the big bad persuades the party to let him try his "mirror of truth" to show who the real bloke is, and who the imitators, and promptly spawns one opposed copy of each of them before teleporting away. Or does the mirror of opposition not work that way?

Now they just need to each create an Eidolon.

paddyfool
2009-06-19, 10:07 AM
Someone or something totally different posing as said character using Alter Self or Polymorph or something could be good for added confusion too. For example, a succubus/incubus out to get their significant other.

Likewise, said mexican-standoff situation would be greatly improved if all the versions of this character knew the Mirror Image spell. Or is this getting silly now?

afroakuma
2009-06-19, 10:18 AM
Just wanted to say that this is an awesome spell idea. Very dark, very subversive, verrrrry nice.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-19, 10:38 AM
Likewise, said mexican-standoff situation would be greatly improved if all the versions of this character knew the Mirror Image spell. Or is this getting silly now?

I'm getting Agent Smith/Borg vibes here. That's not silly at all. :smalleek:

"Did you make your Listen check, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability; that is the sound of your death...and subsequent reanimation and possession by a nameless evil spirit that will attempt to ruin your life in every way possible."

"Your Strength score is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. We will add your skin sample, walking corpse, illusory duplicate, mind-controlled body, and/or snow-sculpted replica to our collective. Lower your tower shields and surrender your weapons."