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AstralFire
2009-06-18, 11:29 AM
So I'm playing in a Star Wars Saga campaign tomorrow, to my glee. The DM has access to most of the books, I believe, but I am new to the system aside from occasional glance-overs of the books.

I rolled amazingly well on my stats:
12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 16

I ended up choosing Zeltron for the Persuasion bonus (that and the party actually has a high amount of non-humans, so I don't feel guilty about that for once.) This makes my current stats:

Str 12
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 15
Cha 18

We're playing in the space between Episodes 3 and 4, and she's a former member of the AgriCorps who went to hide upon the implementation of Order 66. She only recently began manifesting any talent at all in Force when she tapped into the Dark Side and shot lightning in self-defense. The act was witnessed by a Jedi who took her as an impromptu apprentice to try and make sure she will be reigned in, for her own survival.

For this campaign, the DM has taken a view somewhat similar to the Potentium view of the Force (I believe that's the one) and does not give Dark Side points for use of the Force to harm as long as you exhaust other reasonable possibilities first. You still, however, get a Dark Side Point for using Dark Side powers - but he let me take my first talent in Many Shades of the Force for Lightning. That's not typically allowed, I'm given to understand (though I don't quite understand why, if someone would like to explain - the book doesn't list prerequisites to take those talents.)

Here is my intent - I would like to build a support focused character, since I don't intend to spray Lightning every turn. And I'd like that support to be with Force Powers. She is to be a Force Witch type character who is fairly playable at all levels and emphasizes a party role. Her limited offense should be using Force Powers; the Lightsaber she'll eventually get will be mostly to deflect to reflect the limited training she'll be getting, since her 'master' is actually a Padawan with a dead master.

EDIT:

01 Jedi 1 Many Shades (Lightning) [JATM] FT (Lightning, Mind Trick, Negate Energy)
02 Jedi 2 SF (Use the Force)
03 Jedi 3 Deflect FT (Vitality Transfer, Cloak, Rebuke)
04 Jedi 4 Wis 16, Dex 14 (Wis Powers: Circle of Shelter, Drain Energy), ST (Initiative)
05 Jedi 5 Block
06 Jedi 6 FT (Enlighten, Lightning 2, Rebuke 2, Plant Growth), SF (Initiative)
07 Jedi 7 Force Flow
08 J.Knight 1 Soresu Cha 19, Wis 17
09 J.Knight 2 Force Point Recovery Improved Defenses
10 J.Knight 3 Equilibrium
11 J.Knight 4 Force Point Recovery
12 J.Knight 5 Force Warning [KotOR] Cha 20, Wis 18. (Wis Powers: Enlighten 2, Circle of Shelter 2, Negate Energy 2), Strong in the Force
13 J.Master 1 Illusion
14 J.Master 2 Devastating Power
15 J.Master 3 Multitarget Power, Masquerade FT (Drain Energy 2, Negate Energy 3, Plant Growth 2, Rebuke 3)
16 J.Master 4 Extend Power Cha 21, Wis 19
17 J.Master 5 Quicken Power, Illusion Bond
18 J.Knight 6 Force Point Recovery FT (Cloak 2, Lightning 3, Rebuke 3, Drain Energy 3)
19 J.Knight 7 Force Treatment
20 J.Knight 8 Force Point Recovery Cha 22, Wis 20 (Another 5 powers)

Is what I'm going for. She's got a bit of a mama bear personality, so while she won't be the more usual frontline fighter, the goal is to get them to focus on hitting her so I can spam up powers from Deflect and Block rolls. So her Lightsaber is her defense, her force powers are support and offense - the party needs to stay close to her to take advantage of her Circle of Shelter. I felt I was neglecting the lightsaber a little too much with earlier builds. I've nixed all of the TK powers from her line-up - part of the reason she was considered too low-talent to train is that she has a facile for energy control and no telekinetic control to speak of, similar to the Halcyon bloodline (though she's unrelated.)

Uin
2009-06-18, 11:47 AM
Nice rolls, I normally use 28 Point Buy. ;)

Brief post to start.

Force Flow (KotOR): Rolling a 1 at least give you something. Generating Force Points is important. Use to get to Force Adept.

Skill Focus Use the Force (Core): Try not to take this straight away to save your DM a headache.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 12:06 PM
Irrelevant Gibbering about stats:
I know, it was kinda like insta Karma. I'd just used the same roll method with the same DM for D&D3 game and I got:
11, 10, 9, 7, 14, 10

As my stats that time. He offered to let me reroll but I decided to just play an Expert and not really participate in combat, since it's an Urban game anyway.

Force Flow seems kinda neat. I was thinking about going for the Illusion talents in JATM to assist the 'non-violent support when possible' dealie, but I'm kind of iffy about spending one of my early talents on an ability which requires Force Point expenditure, though I guess Force Flow helps with that. :D So it kind of works out; I mess up, make an illusion to protect myself and try again later.

Having some healing abilities seems really appealing to me since it's a good way to sate my need to optimize while doing so in a way that few parties ever complain about, but I'm really not sure how useful Vitality Transfer is with that half damage caveat. Thoughts?

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 12:16 PM
I can't find the Many Shades of the Force Talent in any of my books... And I own them all, excluding 2 of them...

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 12:17 PM
It's in Jedi Academy Training Manual, I think? Under the alternate traditions? I know it's by something having to do with Ang-Tii and I don't believe those wacky monks get mentioned anywhere else.

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 12:32 PM
Its wierd how it works, normally to achieve that talent you must joint he Aing Tii Monks, which the Jedi order only learned of at by the end of the clone wars, but the monks were uninterested in the Jedi Order. So instead of being a normal Jedi, your master could of been one of the few non-Aing-Tii, accepted into the Aing-Tii Monks

Now there is another option you could discuss with your GM about Force Lightning, you could just call it the Light Side version Electrical Judgement (http://swgames.wikia.com/wiki/Electrical_Judgement).

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 12:44 PM
I'd rather not; though I don't plan to have her fall, having her mentored by a PC Padawan half her age but with more talent and discipline in the Force is an interesting dynamic, and should cause some friction considering her primary means of self-defense in a bad situation is... you know.

Plus making it Light Side takes away any of the negatives of it mechanically (a bit ridiculous to even consider giving someone a DSP for the primary usage of a power tagged Light Side), and it seems to be a rather powerful ability at low levels, since it doesn't scale. Using the talent up to get it feels like I'm at least spending something.

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 12:48 PM
I'd rather not; though I don't plan to have her fall, having her mentored by a PC Padawan half her age but with more talent and discipline in the Force is an interesting dynamic, and should cause some friction considering her primary means of self-defense in a bad situation is... you know.

Plus making it Light Side takes away any of the negatives of it mechanically (a bit ridiculous to even consider giving someone a DSP for the primary usage of a power tagged Light Side), and it seems to be a rather powerful ability at low levels, since it doesn't scale. Using the talent up to get it feels like I'm at least spending something.

Well with Many Shades of the Force, that already removes the negatives to using Force Lightning.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 12:49 PM
Well with Many Shades of the Force, that already removes the negatives to using Force Lightning.

Right, but I'm at least spending a talent for it, and removing the tag [Dark Side] isn't the same as giving it a [Light Side] tag for free, yanno? If that makes any sense.

Mando Knight
2009-06-18, 12:51 PM
Now there is another option you could discuss with your GM about Force Lightning, you could just call it the Light Side version Electrical Judgement (http://swgames.wikia.com/wiki/Electrical_Judgement).

(Better, more complete SW wiki entry here (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment)...)

Personally, I like the TK series of force powers.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 01:44 PM
Support (rather than offense) wise, do the rest of the TK family have much point once you've grabbed Move Object? Though I was thinking of grabbing Repulse eventually.

Fold Space is very tempting, as well.

satorian
2009-06-18, 01:48 PM
I have nothing truly meaningful to add. I just want to say that OP, from his/her description of his motivations for wanting one thing or another for his character, sounds like a lot of fun to play with. It's refreshing. Kudos.

Mando Knight
2009-06-18, 01:55 PM
Support (rather than offense) wise, do the rest of the TK family have much point once you've grabbed Move Object? Though I was thinking of grabbing Repulse eventually.

More Move Object. :smalltongue:

Force Whirlwind and Force Grip both help disable enemies, allowing you to run battlefield control.

Uin
2009-06-18, 02:09 PM
Couple of questions for you:

What level are you starting at? An initial level in something other than Jedi really broadens your character.

How much do you want to multiclass? Multiclassing is entirely accepted in Saga. I was going to suggest a Scout level or two.

How well do you want to hide? You're set up for the Dark Times, its a good idea to get new proficiencies and some non-force things to be able to get by without attracting who knows what.

Whats the rest of your party like?

Mando Knight
2009-06-18, 02:11 PM
For support, you want levels of Noble, not Scout. Noble doesn't get you as much HP, but it'll let you provide buffs to your group.

Uin
2009-06-18, 02:20 PM
For support, you want levels of Noble, not Scout. Noble doesn't get you as much HP, but it'll let you provide buffs to your group.

Scout after Jedi was for Fringer Savant to generate force points, I'm also partial to Extreme Effort (on my own builds) for basically +5 Climb, Jump, Swim and lifting stuff in one talent.

Scout before Jedi would be for Endurance, Ride and Survival, I bet none of the rest of the party have them.

AgriCorp was mentioned, so some outdoorsie stuff might be nice. Plant Control Force Adept action...

Mando Knight
2009-06-18, 02:38 PM
AgriCorp was mentioned, so some outdoorsie stuff might be nice. Plant Control Force Adept action...

Flavor-wise, yes. However, she could have been a manager or somesuch (to justify the Noble). AstralFire specifically requested a support-focused build, which is best done by a Noble. (Especially one that goes into Officer later...)

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 02:44 PM
I have nothing truly meaningful to add. I just want to say that OP, from his/her description of his motivations for wanting one thing or another for his character, sounds like a lot of fun to play with. It's refreshing. Kudos.

Thank you. I'm an optimizer, but I optimize because I want to get the most effectiveness out of a weird concept, usually. :D I appreciate the kind words.


Couple of questions for you:

What level are you starting at? An initial level in something other than Jedi really broadens your character.

Level 1, so I don't have much choice there. :\


How much do you want to multiclass? Multiclassing is entirely accepted in Saga. I was going to suggest a Scout level or two.

I'm basically okay with a little of anything as long as it's furthering the general character concept. I think Noble is a better match for this than Scout from what little I can tell, though. Seems to be more support based. The Force Powers concept is a lot more fun than variations on Bardic Music to me, though, so I wouldn't want to stray out of Force classes -too- long.


How well do you want to hide? You're set up for the Dark Times, its a good idea to get new proficiencies and some non-force things to be able to get by without attracting who knows what.

Whats the rest of your party like?

I was thinking I could use stuff like Illusion, Mind Trick, and my lack of Lightsaber as a primary weapon to get by in that regards. She's Zeltoran, so she can revert to her race's reputation in entertainment as a useful cover in places where her Agricultural Librarian cover is out of place.

We have a fresh Padawan focusing on Lightsaber Combat who's going to be serving as this character's 'master' since she's really more of a Force Adept than a Jedi. She's much younger and pretty straight-and-narrow on the Jedi Code, but depends on my character for emotional support when it comes to non-Jedi things.

Also have a Duro Spacer - I think he was going with Scoundrel - a crazy Rodian Tech Specialist who thinks he's a droid and steals spaceships, and his droid, an HK unit he built himself from discovered plans.

Uin
2009-06-18, 02:51 PM
Depends on what you mean by "support". The ultimate support for a character using mostly standard action force powers would be levels in Crime Lord to generate extra actions. You're definitely no not outshining anyone when the Lightsaber Monkey is slicing people open with the extra standard you gave him. Which was the idea for the last boss character I created...


Xavyn
Falleen Noble 1/Soundrel 1/Jedi 3/Soldier 3/Crime Lord 6/Force Adept 3/Force Disciple 3
Destiny 2; Force 12; Dark Side 8
Init 17; Precep 13 (Force Perception)
Languages Basic, Falleen, Binary, High Galactic, Huttese, Sith
--------------------------
Defenses Ref 37(34 Flat-Footed), Fort 40 (+5 v Force), Will 40 (+5 v Force)
HP 158; Threshold 40
Immune Mind-Affecting
--------------------------
Speed 6sq
Melee Vibroblade +25 (3d6+10)
Melee Vibroknuckles +25 (1d6+13)
Ranged Heavy Blaster Pistol +20 (3d8+10)
Base Atk 16 (Fractional); Grapple 18

Force Powers Known (Use the Force +26); Battle Strike, Combustion, Farseeing, Fear (2, Adept), Force Grip (2, Adept), Force Lightning, Force Stun, Move Object, Rebuke (2), Surge
Force Techniques Force Point Recovery
Force Secrets Multi-target Power, Quicken Power
--------------------------
Abilities Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 22 (Destruction)
Special Qualities Immune Mind-Affecting, Hold Breath, Pheromones

Talents
Fencing Style, Stymie, Deflect, Force Perception, Armoured Defense, Visions, Impel Ally (2), Inspire Fear (3), Force Flow, Empower Weapon, Primitive Block, Force Power Adept (2)
Feats
Linguist, Weapons (Simple, Pistol, Adv), Weapon Focus (Adv), Force Sensitivity, Force Training (3), Skill Focus (Decep, Use the Force), Armour (Light) Martial Arts I, Improved Defenses, Unstoppable Force
Skills
Acrobatics 17, Deception 26, Initiative 17, Knowledge 16 (Lore, Bureau), Perception 13 (Use the Force), Persuasion 21, Use the Force 26 (Perception)

Possessions
Fine Clothing, Utility Belt
Light Powered Armour (Superior Tech [+2 Fort], Armourplast, Environmental Seals, Helmet Package, Vacuum Seals)
Sith Vibroblade (Superior Tech [+2 Atk], Neutronium Edge, Sith Alchemy)
Vibroknuckles (Superior Tech [+2 Atk], Enhanced Energy Projector)
Mer-Sonn Heavy Pistol (Superior Tech [+2 Atk], Scope, Springloaded)
Customised Probe Droid MT-5U
Destiny
Xavyn fulfilled her destruction destiny when she killed Savan to take over as head of the Black Sun. She gains a +2 destiny bonus to Charisma.

Uin
2009-06-18, 03:31 PM
Jedi Many Shades Force Training (Lightning, Mind Trick, Move Object [Wis Bump, Negate Energy])
Noble Inspire Confidence Weapon (Pistol)
Jedi BF Force Training (Dark Transfer, Drain Energy, Rebuke [Wis Bump, Plant Control]), Force Readiness
Noble BF Skill Focus (Initiative)
Jedi Deflect
Noble Force Flow Force Training (Force Grip, Malacia, Rebuke, Vital Transfer)
Jedi BF Skill Focus (Use the Force)
Jedi Equilibrium
Force Adept Force Treatment Force Boon
Force Adept Force Point Recovery
Force Adept Empower Weapon
Force Adept Improved Rebuke SOMETHING
Force Adept Primitive Block
...

I put both Deflect and Primitive Block in because they generate temp force points, and temp force points are fun. Empower Weapon and Primitive Block are nice non-Jedi force ways of increase your melee usefulness, even if you do end up empowering a stick. One way to optimise while not over-shadowing anyone is to take some solid defense options, Equilibrium is great, helps you qualify for Force Adept and further talents. Theres a wide variety of force powers there, something to target each defense. I put Dark Transfer for in flavour, if your character can spontaneously Lightning then she can spontaneously heal with the same dubious power source. Improved Rebuke will save your team-mates. Your fellow party members don't seem like the types to take treat injury, Force Treatment gives to a whacking great Treat Injury score.

After this, the obvious choice would be Force Disciple (try for FA 4/Full BAB Class (JK?) 1/FD 4, if you have BAB concerns). There are Jedi Knight talent trees like Archivist and Healer which could suit you too. More wisdom or force training would be nice. You character is one of the few where Kinetic Combat is an option.

Remember, its very hard to make a crap character in Saga. If you have a solid base, like above, everything else is just flair.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 06:12 PM
I like Dark Transfer thematically a lot, but I can just as easily reflavor Vitality Transfer for the same kind of visuals. I'm on the fence. I'll ask my DM what he thinks. (And why get both? o.O)

Anyway, you guys have given me a fair amount to think about. Thanks, I think I got enough to run with. This is my plan; when I get to level 5, I'll see how close I stuck to it and evaluate changes in my character's personality.

Build I'm not using anymore:

01 Jedi 1 Many Shades (Lightning) [JATM] Force Training (Lightning, Mind Trick, Move Object, Negate Energy [Wis Bump])
02 Noble 1 Force Flow [KotOR] Weapon Proficiency (Pistols)
03 Jedi 2 Skill Focus (Use the Force), Force Training (Vitality Transfer, Drain Energy, Rebuke, Fold Space [Wis Bump])
04 Jedi 3 Illusion [JATM] Wis +1, Dex +1
05 Noble 2 Skill Training (Treat Injury)
06 Noble 3 Equilibrium Force Training (Force Whirlwind, Force Shield, Force Slam, Slow)
07 Jedi 4 Skill Training (Persuasion)
08 ForceAdept 1 Force Power Adept (Lightning) Cha +1, Wis +1
09 ForceAdept 2 Force Point Recovery Skill Focus (Persuasion)
10 ForceAdept 3 Telekinetic Savant
11 ForceAdept 4 Force Point Recovery
12 ForceAdept 5 Telekinetic Prodigy (Farseeing) Cha +1, Wis +1 (Bump powers: Fold Space, Negate Energy, Lightning), Skill Focus (Initiative)
13 ForceDisci 1 Masquerade
14 ForceDisci 2 Quicken Power
15 ForceDisci 3 Illusion Bond, Distant Power Informer
16 ForceDisci 4 Multitarget Power Cha +1, Wis +1
17 ForceAdept 6 Force Point Recovery
18 ForceAdept 7 Force Focus Bad Feeling
19 ForceAdept 8 Force Point Recovery
20 Jedi 5 Deflect Cha +1, Wis +1 (Bump powers: I have no idea.)

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 06:34 PM
At level 2, where are you getting skill training? Multiclassing into Noble gives you a Talent from the Noble talents, or the Force talents, and 1 feat from the Nobles Starting Feat Suite, so Linguist, Weapon Proficiency Pistol or Simple Weapons.

You will have to take Noble at level 3 to gain Persuasion.

EDIT: Illusion is located in like 3 different books, maybe more, might wanna check them all.

KotOR CG
Force Unleashed CG
Jedi Academy

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 06:40 PM
Someone told me when multiclassing that I didn't get any feats and instead got one skill as a class skill. Is that incorrect? If so, can you point out where in the book exactly it says this? I don't disbelieve you, I'm just learning still. The last thing I saw I don't think said anything about skills OR feats one way or the other.

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 06:58 PM
Someone told me when multiclassing that I didn't get any feats and instead got one skill as a class skill. Is that incorrect? If so, can you point out where in the book exactly it says this? I don't disbelieve you, I'm just learning still. The last thing I saw I don't think said anything about skills OR feats one way or the other.

Page 54-55, its not well explained... in the expample it states that you get the new classes Attack bonus, the bonuses to defenses, and a Talent. Above the example it talks about adding a second class which it says you gain the BAB, Class bonuses to defense, and Class Skills, as well as the hit die of your new class. So I could be wrong about the feat part, but you do not gain free training to a skill, you only gain the ability to train in one of those skills

Mando Knight
2009-06-18, 07:22 PM
Someone told me when multiclassing that I didn't get any feats and instead got one skill as a class skill. Is that incorrect?

It's the other way around. You get one of the second class's starting feats that you don't already have for free, but no new skills. However, the class's skills are added to your class skill list, so you could take Skill Training. Personally, if the character wishes to multiclass into a class that he already has all of the starting feats for, I'd allow the player to select at least Skill Training instead, if not a bonus feat from that class's list.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 07:40 PM
Okay, Uin's table makes more sense now. Updated that correspondingly, thanks.

I think I'm going to avoid Plant Growth, simply because too many of the really cool locations in SW lack plants. Will I be kicking myself for not picking up Deflect, or will Negate Energy and Force Shield be sufficient?

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 07:43 PM
FYI, you get a +1 to two of your stats every four levels.

EDIT: looking at your chart, why not take Linguist instead of WP: Pistol, that's 4 additional Languages you know. And most Species in Star Wars don't speak basic unless they really need to.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 07:51 PM
Noted. The hardest part about switching to a related game ruleset is catching everything that's different.

Cheers.


EDIT: looking at your chart, why not take Linguist instead of WP: Pistol, that's 4 additional Languages you know. And most Species in Star Wars don't speak basic unless they really need to.

I was thinking about that, but I already have Huttese, Ryl and Binary. You think more'll help that much? I was thinking a Pistol would be good so that she can do some stuff at range and not look terribly obvious as a force sensitive.

NPCMook
2009-06-18, 07:59 PM
If you see it that way I guess you could play it Mara Jade style, then I'd try to pick up the Attack Combo [Ranged], [Melee], and [Fire and Strike] might be worth taking.

AstralFire
2009-06-18, 09:20 PM
I just did the 20 level forecast (edited into the earlier post). I was majorly running out of things I could reasonably take, damn. I also know I'm going to have to reevaluate a lot of that when I get to it. And holy crap at 18 force powers at level 20. o.O

Philistine
2009-06-18, 09:32 PM
FYI, you get a +1 to two of your stats every four levels.

EDIT: looking at your chart, why not take Linguist instead of WP: Pistol, that's 4 additional Languages you know. And most Species in Star Wars don't speak basic unless they really need to.

The whole point of Basic is that most species do speak it.

The primary language used throughout known space is Basic. Most characters can speak Basic, and all characters understand it even if they can't speak it.

Mando Knight
2009-06-18, 09:37 PM
The whole point of Basic is that most species do speak it.

Yeah. Because of this, the other languages are mostly there for flavor purposes, like Common compared to the other languages in D&D, but more so. Really, the only not-Basic languages that would be needed for a character (barring, of course, any 3PO-wannabe) are Shyriwook (to talk to/understand Wookiees. Even Solo understands the importance of this), Huttese (the second-most common language in the Outer Rim), and Binary. (don't let that astromech get away with those snarky comments!)

Colmarr
2009-06-19, 12:17 AM
Thank you. I'm an optimizer, but I optimize because I want to get the most effectiveness out of a weird concept, usually.

Interesting to finally see someone else put this in writing. I'm of the same approach.

Pick a concept, then optimise within that concept.

True munchkins are the opposite. Optimise first and then build a concept around the stats (if they even bother with the concept :smallsmile:).

NPCMook
2009-06-19, 12:30 AM
Interesting to finally see someone else put this in writing. I'm of the same approach.

Pick a concept, then optimise within that concept.

True munchkins are the opposite. Optimise first and then build a concept around the stats (if they even bother with the concept :smallsmile:).

I roll both ways... when I need to be I roll serious stuff Optimisation, when not so serious stuff, I roll something that shouldn't work, but does.

Uin
2009-06-19, 05:23 AM
Something to remember when Multiclassing:

You've taken levels in Noble, but you have not taken any noble talents. Why take levels in Noble when you can take them in Soldier for more BAB and HP since any class can be used to purchase force talents? This is why I had Inspire Confidence in my sample, you wanted Noble so I assumed you wanted something from the class.

I suppose it really depends on how much you want "Noble" on your character sheet.

AstralFire
2009-06-19, 08:41 AM
Something to remember when Multiclassing:

You've taken levels in Noble, but you have not taken any noble talents. Why take levels in Noble when you can take them in Soldier for more BAB and HP since any class can be used to purchase force talents? This is why I had Inspire Confidence in my sample, you wanted Noble so I assumed you wanted something from the class.

I suppose it really depends on how much you want "Noble" on your character sheet.

I went with Noble so I could get Persuasion as a Class Skill. But I think I honestly will have a high enough of a Persuasion Check and Mind Trick that it's unnecessary.

Build I'm not using anymore:


01 Jedi 1 Many Shades (Lightning) [JATM] Force Training (Lightning, Mind Trick, Move Object)
02 Jedi 2 Skill Focus (Use the Force)
03 Jedi 3 Clear Mind Force Training (Vitality Transfer, Cloak, Rebuke)
04 Jedi 4 Wis 16, Dex 14 (Wis Powers: Negate Energy, Drain Energy)
05 Jedi 5 Force Haze Skill Training (Initiative)
06 Jedi 6 Force Training (Force Whirlwind, Force Shield, Force Slam, Force Shield 2)
07 Jedi 7 Equilibrium
08 J.Knight 1 Force Flow Cha 19, Wis 17
09 J.Knight 2 Improved Force Shield Force Boon
10 J.Knight 3 Difficult to Sense [Legacy]
11 J.Knight 4 Improved Cloak
12 J.Knight 5 Force Warning [KotOR] Cha 20, Wis 18. (Wis Powers: Cloak 2, Rebuke 2, Lightning 2), Skill Focus (Initiative)
13 J.Master 1 Aura of Freedom [JATM]
14 J.Master 2 Quicken Power
15 J.Knight 6 Force Point Recovery Improved Defenses
16 J.Knight 7 Force Veil [Legacy] Cha 21, Wis 19
17 J.Knight 8 Force Point Recovery
18 J.Knight 9 Niman Martial Arts I
19 J.Knight 10 Force Point Recovery
20 J.Master 3 PurePower[TCW] Liberate[JATM] Cha 22, Wis 20 (Wis Powers: Force Whirlwind 2, Force Shield 2, Negate Energy 2)

Force Shield - Legacy
Cloak - TCW (The Clone Wars)
Force Whirlwind - KotOR
Drain Energy - JATM

Is what I'm looking at now, I wanted to focus support via Force Powers - Aura of Freedom and Liberate help my party escape from capture, Force Warning means we all survive better, Force Veil means I'm hard to detect (though I worry that with a party that has another Jedi, it's meaningless), Improved Force Shield means I can protect a weaker party member, Improved Cloak makes me a pain to hit. I worry about my rate of Force Point Expenditure with this build currently, though...

Uin
2009-06-19, 09:09 AM
I went with Noble so I could get Persuasion as a Class Skill. But I think I honestly will have a high enough of a Persuasion Check and Mind Trick that it's unnecessary.I see, fair enough then. Untrained Zelton persuasion at lvl 20 would be +21, this is high as many a Skill Focused character, its not as if you are dumping persuasion. But do check to see if there any any uses of the skill which require training.

AstralFire
2009-06-19, 09:49 AM
Ack, I just noticed the 'regain all Force Powers on a natural 20' line.

x_x

I'm going to have to rebuild this to include Force Adept again, aren't I? *sigh* It's so hard to qualify for that quickly and grab the powers I want. I guess it's back to Illusion over Force Haze, so I can do that, but... Are there any Force Powers or General Purpose (rather than Jedi) talents that help me hide my presence in the Force?

Mando Knight
2009-06-19, 01:11 PM
Are there any Force Powers or General Purpose (rather than Jedi) talents that help me hide my presence in the Force?

You can automatically conceal your presence against anyone who tries to detect you by making an opposed Use the Force check, and the Clear Mind talent (Jedi Sentinel talent... sorry) allows you to reroll that check.

AstralFire
2009-06-19, 02:51 PM
Yeah, I gathered that, but if I go into the Adept series of Prestige Classes, no time to grab those talents. x_x

I'm having trouble finding Force Powers that look any good and can be used to defend the party without picking up Techniques to expand them. I'm wary of using those to build up my support skills since I'm not sure how high level this game'll go. Suggestions for anything I missed?

NPCMook
2009-06-19, 04:16 PM
At least your build doesn't require 2 feats that are pointless to Jedi just so you can qualify for 1 level in Melee Duelist :smallmad:

AstralFire
2009-06-19, 04:52 PM
Melee Defense and Weapon Focus, you mean? The latter should be an intuitive houserule to Lightsaber inclusion.


01 Jedi 1 Many Shades (Lightning) [JATM] FT (Lightning, Mind Trick, Negate Energy)
02 Jedi 2 SF (Use the Force)
03 Jedi 3 Deflect FT (Vitality Transfer, Cloak, Rebuke)
04 Jedi 4 Wis 16, Dex 14 (Wis Powers: Circle of Shelter, Drain Energy), ST (Initiative)
05 Jedi 5 Block
06 Jedi 6 FT (Enlighten, Lightning 2, Rebuke 2, Plant Growth), SF (Initiative)
07 Jedi 7 Force Flow
08 J.Knight 1 Soresu Cha 19, Wis 17
09 J.Knight 2 Force Point Recovery Improved Defenses
10 J.Knight 3 Equilibrium
11 J.Knight 4 Force Point Recovery
12 J.Knight 5 Force Warning [KotOR] Cha 20, Wis 18. (Wis Powers: Enlighten 2, Circle of Shelter 2, Negate Energy 2), Strong in the Force
13 J.Master 1 Illusion
14 J.Master 2 Devastating Power
15 J.Master 3 Multitarget Power, Masquerade FT (Drain Energy 2, Negate Energy 3, Plant Growth 2, Rebuke 3)
16 J.Master 4 Extend Power Cha 21, Wis 19
17 J.Master 5 Quicken Power, Illusion Bond
18 J.Knight 6 Force Point Recovery FT (Cloak 2, Lightning 3, Rebuke 3, Drain Energy 3)
19 J.Knight 7 Force Treatment
20 J.Knight 8 Force Point Recovery Cha 22, Wis 20 (Another 5 powers)

Is what I'm going for. She's got a bit of a mama bear personality, so while she won't be the more usual frontline fighter, the goal is to get them to focus on hitting her so I can spam up powers from Deflect and Block rolls. So her Lightsaber is her defense, her force powers are support and offense - the party needs to stay close to her to take advantage of her Circle of Shelter. I felt I was neglecting the lightsaber a little too much with earlier builds. I've nixed all of the TK powers from her line-up - part of the reason she was considered too low-talent to train is that she has a facile for energy control and no telekinetic control to speak of, similar to the Halcyon bloodline (though she's unrelated.)