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View Full Version : [4e] powers from PowerSource, Sailing campain



oxinabox
2009-06-20, 10:37 AM
I was thinking,
i'm running a one off campaign, 4e over the uni holidays.
So i was thinking either a planar Trygalle Trade Guild [1] (http://www.codexofuniverses.com/universe/1/article/216) [2] (http://encyclopediamalazica.pbworks.com/Trygalle+Trade+Guild)

or a sailing one.

Now for sailing in 4e...
Skills like profession sailing, arn't defined.
So I'ld add that as a optional Class skill for All classes.
Use Rope, Can be done from dunno dungeoneering...

Maybe trained in sailing would give a synergy style +2 bonus to all use rope checks. i like that.

I'll have to check the adventures vaults rules of Vehicles.
just looking quickly i'm already going to have to house rule that you can't use Push, pull or Slide in a ship. which idiot put that in:

Immobilized: An immobilized vehicle cannot
move except by a pull, a push, or a slide effect. [AV] page 15

the rules don't seem great. no mater what the wind is doing the ship will always move forward. technically we can make a ship go into the wind.
But Not at the -4 penalty to speed the rule say.
I'ld have the tacking and waering till that dropped from exhaustion.
and i doubt my players would have it another way.
I am going to have to fiddle around with the mechanic alot for this.
I have to abstract the ships movement. maybe into a skill challenge?
We can abstract talking to people to gather information into a streetwise check so why not?
I can't have players hauling on individual ropes.
hmm the players will be needed for combat, so the'll have a crew.
So there skill checks will be a bonus to the base skill of there crew (depends on who they hire) from a PC instructing them, which would be a standard action, sustain - Standard. (maybe i should be nice and make it minor, depends on number of players)


Now assuming all my players don't want to be landlubbers.
The standard classes really arn't much fun on the High Sea.

Sure a fighter can be a Pirate.
But Honestly even with the loss of flexibility that when from 3.5 to 4.
I can still make a fighter replace almost any Physical Combat class.
I made a nice monk out of a tempest fighter, the other day.

I could Just tell the players to fluff there character differently.
or i could go and add some New Classes (there arn't any one DndWiki).
But everyone has there own idea of there sea fairing adventurer.
and since i don't trust them to create new classes themselves.
or more i would say sure Create your class.
any class features must mimic those of preexisting classes. (and i would examine these closely)
any powers must be the same as preexisting powers.
You can change the fluff.

But now what if I said:
Chose your class, it must exist in books i have on hand.
Chose your powers, from any class that has the same power source (arcane/martial/divine/primordial).
If it requires some class feature to work, you must have that class feature (by either being of that class or by multiclass feat giving you that feature)
If you want to multiclass outside of your power source standard rules apply.
Multiclassing within your powertype is only useful if you want class features.


exactly how much would i break the game?

I can't see any immediate problems.
Alot of problems like Someone using a rogue attack, with a great ax are removed by some one the already present rules. in the rogues case almost all melee powers say "Must be using a lightblade".

There is some loss of balance maybe someone being a paladin (to get martial weapon proffiency)
then using a Great Ax (1d12) instead of a Morning star (1d10) but it's not too major is it?

Wow long post, huh?

Artanis
2009-06-20, 11:55 AM
I'm not entirely sure what you want about the stuff at the beginning. Are you asking for suggestions? Asking whether it would break the game to add something like Profession back into 4e (which was removed for a reason, by the way)?


As for the classes thing, players and DMs are actively encouraged to refluff 4e classes if they want. You don't need to build a whole new class just for somebody to be a sailor. If they want to be a sailor, they say "I'm a sailor" and fluff their powers accordingly.

Allowing them to take powers from any class of their power source would probably break the game. Maybe not in all cases, and maybe not too horribly, but classes were balanced around the limits of their options, and removing those has the potential to break things wide open. I shudder to think of the sorts of combos that people would come up with if they have unlimited access to both Warden forms and Barbarian rages.

Mando Knight
2009-06-20, 12:03 PM
Allowing them to take powers from any class of their power source would probably break the game. Maybe not in all cases, and maybe not too horribly, but classes were balanced around the limits of their options, and removing those has the potential to break things wide open. I shudder to think of the sorts of combos that people would come up with if they have unlimited access to both Warden forms and Barbarian rages.

Yeah... and on top of that, a Tempest Fighter with full access to Ranger powers? He doesn't need any help with mimicking a Striker.

And then there's the fact that the powers were made to fit with the classes. Why would a Swordmage be able to sling around Artificer spells? And why is the Sorcerer using spells that have names that sound like they're musical numbers?

Artanis
2009-06-20, 01:44 PM
Another one I just thought of: the Sorcerer's damage-booster (Draconic Power et. al) plus anything other classes might get with multiple attacks. It gets really, really nasty when you start adding that sort of damage to the damage rolls of things like Flaming Sphere and Wall of Fire, and the Wizard isn't even a striker. I can only imagine what people can come up with when they put Draconic Power on a Warlock.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-20, 04:07 PM
Now assuming all my players don't want to be landlubbers.
The standard classes really arn't much fun on the High Sea.

Class does not define who you are or what you do for a living, necessarily. You do not have to have a class called 'Pirate' to wear an eye patch, own a parrot, or make your living plundering on the high seas.

Just have your players make their characters as normal, but stress that it will be nautical, so don't 'Roll a Fighter', think up a cool 'sea dog' character, then stat him with an appropriate class.

I don't think 'Profession; Sailor' needs to make a return. Wasting skill training on such a thing would kind of hurt, imo.
Rather I suggest if you feel the need for a mechanical representation of such a thing, make it a background.
There is already 'Occupation; Mariner' to represent just this. Associated skills acrobatics and perception.

For an alternate, (Occupation;Scurvy Pirate Dog?) I'd reccommend maybe Athletics (which covers swimming, climbing etc) and Theivery. Maybe associated Language - Theatrical faux-cornish accent. Aarrrr!

Remember! You don't need to roll checks unless the result actually matters. Unless the players are actually trying to get the ship to sail faster than normal, or acheive some particular difficult manouver, they should never have to make a 'Use Rope' check.

Really, don't worry about specific rules for the vehicle unless you really must. You know how a ship moves, they know how a ship moves, and it moves exactly as fast as the plot requires.
The only time that's going to remotely matter is in ship-to-ship combat, but unless your players are incredible naval minds, they're really going to want to focus on the bit that comes when the ships pull up alongside each other and the swashbuckling starts, so again, don't stress the small stuff, chief. ;)

Mando Knight
2009-06-20, 04:22 PM
Remember! You don't need to roll checks unless the result actually matters. Unless the players are actually trying to get the ship to sail faster than normal, or acheive some particular difficult manouver, they should never have to make a 'Use Rope' check.

Yeah... this. If the characters are supposed to be mariners, they should be able to tie a bowline and a dozen or so other knots with their eyes closed. I wouldn't require a Use Rope check to make sure the Paladin correctly fastens the laces on his armor and boots, so I wouldn't require a sailor to make a Use Rope check to hoist the mainsail.

oxinabox
2009-06-21, 06:17 AM
I'm not entirely sure what you want about the stuff at the beginning. Are you asking for suggestions? Asking whether it would break the game to add something like Profession back into 4e (which was removed for a reason, by the way)?

That was partially me brainstorming.
So why was Profession removed?

No, a check wouldn't be required to hoist a main sail.
That sort of thing would be an automatic success.
assuming someone with profession sailor was giving instructions (giving everyone involved a +5 bonus i'm thinking .'. automatic success)
With out a skill check, then isn't it indicating that anyone can hope on a tallship and sail off.
"Trained Skills represent area's you have proffesional training it. much more than the average man"

I was thinking of giving the players the option to buy different ships (number of canon spaces, how many berths...). number of sails
different modals of cannon (realistic, reiures 6 standard actions to fire) or self loading automated (requires 1 standard actionm to fire). etc.
and Choice of crew.
They musst hire at least 2 "Watchs" otherwise they can't sail for more than 12 hours aday. and they take a penalty cos everyone is exhasted.

Now a use rope check (in this case acrobatics i think) would be required to throw a grappling hook, in to the rigging of the enemy ship, then a acrobatics check to swing ascross.
Where i expect they would loot...


hmm maybe i should be running 3.5...



Yeah... and on top of that, a Tempest Fighter with full access to Ranger powers? He doesn't need any help with mimicking a Striker.
Not full access, he would have the ones he put on his character sheet.
and He wouldn't be a Tempest Fighter. He would be a Physical Combat specialist, with Fighter type class features, but *mostly* reasonable moves that anyone with sufficient combat can achieve. dunno.
And he Would be a striker



... You know how a ship moves, they know how a ship moves, and it moves exactly as fast as the plot requires.
The ship wouldn't be a means of transportation.
(well obviously it would).
But instead of "The getting there is half the fun." the gettign there is the who campaign.