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View Full Version : [3.5 PrC] The Iron Towers Elite PEACH



Calmar
2009-06-20, 04:36 PM
Hi. :smallsmile:

The crossbow as it is seems to me to be completely inferior when compared to the (composite) longbow. In fact no one I know likes this weapon and the way it works it is mostly useless as soon as you get more than one attack. Therefore I've created this PrC. Please give me your critique. :smallsmile:

If you wonder about the Swift Reload ability, I understand myself that this somewhat stretches plausibility, since a heavy crossbow obviously needs to be winded up and everybody knows that you'd really have a hard time doing that up to three times in six seconds. On the other hand, a character of 16th or higher level can load, aim and fire her longbow four times (or more with the right feat/s) in one round, which doesn't sound too realistic to me, either. Therefore, in case of doubt, this is simply a balance-thing.

The Iron Towers mercenaries are a company of crossbowmen, inspired by the free companies that existed in 14th century Italy. Originally I had the impression that the pavise, the shield used by crossbowmen (see below), would be something like a tower shield with an arrow slit. That was my inspiration for the company's name. My research proved me wrong, but I still quite like the name.
Anyways, here it is, my hopefully balanced prestige class (including a new item!):

The Iron Towers Elite
Iron Towers elites are the heart of the Iron Towers Mercenary company and only the most capable members of this organisation may join their ranks. Masters in the use of the crossbow, the elites use this weapon with an accuracy and efficiency that surpasses the abilities of ordinary crossbowmen by far. They are experts in the defense of strategic points and advance under cover. Most Iron Towers elites are fighters, since they have the fastest means of meeting the requirements and gain the most out of this class, although a few fighter/clerics of martial deities and fighter/rogues chose this path as well. Paladins never become Iron Towers elites since they regard both the profession of a mercenary and the use of ranged weapon as dishonorable. Iron Towers elites form small strike forces to as-sault heavily defended positions or lead squads of other mercenaries during attacks or sieges.
NPC Iron Towers elites are commonly encountered in military campaigns that involve the Iron Towers mercenary company.
Hit Dice: d10

Requirements
To qualify to become an Iron Towers elite, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any non-chaotic.
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Skills: Intimidate 5 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Weapon Focus (heavy crossbow).
Special: Must be a member of the Iron Tower Merchant Company and must be proficient with heavy shields.

{table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special
1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Swift reload, superior armor proficiency (max. Dex +1)
2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | Iron tower +1, marksman
3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Superior armor proficiency (max. Dex +2)
4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Crossbow specialist, iron tower +2
5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Swift reload, superior armor proficiency (max. Dex +3)
[/table]

Class Skills
The Iron Towers elite’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
Swift Reload (Ex): As part of a Full Round Attack, an Iron Towers elite may perform a second attack with a heavy cross-bow at a –5 penalty. At 5th level he gains a third attack with a –10 penalty.
Iron Tower (Ex): The cover bonus to AC an Iron Towers elite receives while using a deployed pavise (see below) in-creases by +1 at 2nd level and +2 at 4th level. In addition, an Iron Towers elite may position and pick up a pavise as a Move Action, rather than a Standard Action.
Marksman (Ex): An Iron Towers elite may add 1/2 of his Dexterity bonus on any damage dealt with a crossbow.
Superior Armor Proficiency (Ex): Extensive training in the use of crossbows while being armored allows the Iron Tow-ers elite to use light and medium armor with greater efficiency. The maximum Dex bonus of any light or medium armor the Iron Towers elite wears increases by +1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level and +3 at 5th level.
Crossbow Specialist (Ex): An Iron Towers elite deals damage with any crossbow as if it were one size category larger. In addition, he gains a +1 competence bonus on attacks made with a heavy crossbow. This bonus stacks with the bonus from the Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus feats.

New Item
Pavise (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Balestriere1.jpg): The pavise is a large convex shield used to protect the entire body. While being carried, a pavise functions similar to a heavy shield. However, a pavise can be deployed in the ground with a spike attached to its bottom, granting a +4 cover bonus to AC against ranged attacks. The enhancement bonus of a pavise is added on the cover bonus it provides. Positioning and picking up a pavise is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
You can crouch behind it, to use it as total cover against ranged attacks, though you must give up you attacks to do so. Crossbowmen typically use a pavise that way while reloading their weapons.

{table=head] Armor | Cost | Armor/Shield Bonus | Maximum Dex Bonus | Armor Check Penalty | Arcane Spell Failure Chance | (30 ft.) | (20 ft.) | Weight
Pavise | 25 gp | +2 | — | –3 | 20% | — | — | 15 lb. [/table]

Mr.Moron
2009-06-20, 05:05 PM
Feels like it needs more. The entry requirments are pretty feat stiff just in terms of pure numbers. Iron Will is pretty "Meh" and not really related to the core function of the class, weapon focus is just a stinker.

It's not giving out rewards proportional to its cost, especially since so much of is straight numerical bonuses.

I can't really suggest anything specific without letting it stew some more. I just know it not only needs more but that something more needs to add some zing, some pop, some pizazz as it were.

Cieyrin
2009-06-20, 09:57 PM
There really isn't much here that marks this PRC as really a crossbow specialist but as an elite soldier that happens to favor a heavy crossbow. The Marksman ability can be emulated by the Crossbow Sniper (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Crossbow_Sniper,PH2) feat from the PHB2.

I also agree with Mr. Moron about Iron Will, which doesn't seem to have much to do with the class, really.

For Swift Reload, it would be more effective to just say you can reload as a free action, so you can then fire it at your normal iterative attack speed and also possibly take advantage of Rapid Shot. This way, you can competitively run w/ longbow wielders, with your 2d8 19-20/x2 attacks + Half dex mod against their 1d8 x3 + Str mod (limited by the strength of the bow, of course, which can get expensive, especially with a composite greatbow).

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Calmar
2009-06-21, 10:29 AM
Thanks for the replies. :smallsmile:

So, you think the PrC is weak? Was afraid itcould contain too strong features. :smallbiggrin:

Actually the requirements seem quite light too me, since everyone who specialises in a ranged weapon probably takes them. Iron Will is supposed to represent the disciplined nature of the members of this class; Rapid Reload makes sense in relation to the swift reload ability, and the Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus feats are most likely taken in any case.

The benefits are straight numerical, because the disadvantages a crossbowman has comparted to an archer are numerical, as well.

I was thinking about letting the swift reload grant full iterative attacks while designing the class over the course of the last few days. The reason why it does not allow you four attacks (or more through feats) is, that a crossbow still should be somewhat slower than a crossbow, IMO. In return an elite probably has greater AC than an archer.

Since I want it to be a 5 level PrC, I was careful not to pack it with too much stuff. I was thinking about an ability that allows to use true strike on ranged attacks a few times/day. What about that?

Debihuman
2009-06-21, 10:50 AM
This strikes me as a prestige class that really is only suitable to the original poster's game because it has such specific requirements such as being a "member of the Iron Tower Merchant Company,"

I have no idea what this organization is, what they do or if being a member gets you any benefits. Without that knowledge, this prestige class loses some of its attraction.


Paladins never become Iron Towers elites since they regard both the profession of a mercenary and the use of ranged weapon as dishonorable.

The Paladins class doesn't prohibit crossbows and putting this restriction on the class seems odd to me. What's dishonorable about using a crossbow if the other side is using them too? It would foolish for a sword-wielding paladin to rush an opponent who is using a crossbow himself. In a word: Agincourt.

Debby

Cieyrin
2009-06-21, 11:04 AM
True Strike is great and all but If I really need to ensure I hit my target, I'll just go out to my local potion emporium and buy myself a case of potions of true strike at 50 gp a pop (possibly less for buying in bulk XD), as, unless that True Strike is a swift action, it's not actually much better, plus it makes no sense for a nonmagical class to suddenly start getting spell-likes as a capstone ability, especially one that emphasizes single shots, since True Strike only works on your next attack, not your next full attack or whatever.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Calmar
2009-06-21, 11:18 AM
This strikes me as a prestige class that really is only suitable to the original poster's game because it has such specific requirements such as being a "member of the Iron Tower Merchant Company,"

I just don't suppose that this is so awesome that everyone (or anyone) wants to use it in her own game right away. :smallbiggrin:
Of course you can drop the membership as requirement, or change it to some other organization.


I have no idea what this organization is, what they do or if being a member gets you any benefits. Without that knowledge, this prestige class loses some of its attraction.
As I said, it's a mercenary company of crossbowmen of great fame and success. I thought I'd not bombard you with details that are specific to my campaign world that do not directly relate to the way the PrC is working.


The Paladins class doesn't prohibit crossbows and putting this restriction on the class seems odd to me. What's dishonorable about using a crossbow if the other side is using them too? It would foolish for a sword-wielding paladin to rush an opponent who is using a crossbow himself. In a word: Agincourt.

Debby

You are right. I got distracted by the fact I've never seen a paladin seriously using a crossbow. But I insinst that paladins don't join mercenaries whose only cause is the gain of riches. :smalltongue:

Regarding Agincourt, if I'm not mistaken, the Italian crossbowmen were trampled by their French employers as they charged the English lines (but this could have happened in another battle, though).

Calmar
2009-06-21, 11:20 AM
So, has anyone any suggestions how to make it stronger? I'm not too fond of giving it supernatural and spell-like abilities.

Basically I see it as a way to build a crossbowman, that doesnt suck, compared to an archer...

Mr.Moron
2009-06-21, 11:59 AM
So, you think the PrC is weak? Was afraid itcould contain too strong features


I have no idea why everyone making classes is so damn afraid of this. If you're building something to be inserted into the standard environment and you're not giving it access to full spell progression the chances of it influencing the power curve are pretty slim.

By the time you've completed even a 5-level prestiege class with standard entry, you're at level 10 minimum. You better damn well be doing something pretty badass at that point.


So, has anyone any suggestions how to make it stronger? I'm not too fond of giving it supernatural and spell-like abilities.

I'll try to think of something, I've never thought much on Crossbows, so it could be a fun to come up with a suggestion.

Remember, (Ex) is your friend. Something doesn't have to magic to be a bit beyond the mundane.



Basically I see it as a way to build a crossbowman, that doesnt suck, compared to an archer...

To be honest, archers are already fairly finicky creatures. Honestly your aim to make a crossbowman that is just good period. Never mind what your impression of normal archers are.

EDIT: Something just came to me actually

Penetrating Shot(Ex)
Starting at 1st level, an Iron Towers Elite may declare any attack with a Crossbow to be a penetrating shot. A penetrating shot is so accurate, it easily hits the gaps in any armor or natural protection so it is treated as a ranged touch attack. Once penetrating shot has been used it takes a 3 rounds to regain the focus needed to use it again.

I'd say another ability of similar power at 3rd, and a stronger one at 5th would be a big help.

Debihuman
2009-06-21, 12:04 PM
Agincourt - Where the ragged army of King Henry V of England decimated the much larger French army. Not only were there few English casualties but France lost many high-ranking nobles as well. As a result, King Charles VI of France signed the Treaty of Troyes recognizing Henry V of England as a regent of France and heir to the French throne and he married his daughter Catherine to Henry V.

Debby

Calmar
2009-06-22, 02:24 PM
EDIT: Something just came to me actually

Penetrating Shot(Ex)
Starting at 1st level, an Iron Towers Elite may declare any attack with a Crossbow to be a penetrating shot. A penetrating shot is so accurate, it easily hits the gaps in any armor or natural protection so it is treated as a ranged touch attack. Once penetrating shot has been used it takes a 3 rounds to regain the focus needed to use it again.

I'd say another ability of similar power at 3rd, and a stronger one at 5th would be a big help.

That's cool! :smallbiggrin:
I really like that. I'd just simply say that you have to wait three rounds to use this ability again, with no explanation.


What about this?

Maiming Shot (Ex): At 3rd level an Iron Tower Elite may perform a maiming shot against a foe's legs at a -4 penalty. If the target of this attack fails to succeed on a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + Iron Tower Elite's class level + Dex Modifier*), it is slowed until it is treated with a successful DC 15 heal check, or with a cure spell.

*or Int?

Mr.Moron
2009-06-22, 02:45 PM
That's cool! :smallbiggrin:
I really like that. I'd just simply say that you have to wait three rounds to use this ability again, with no explanation.

Some people get really uppity about cool downs with no explanation. The flavor was just there to provide a to point at why it might not be totally arbitrary. Glad to see we aren't concerned with being overly simulationist here, that makes things easier.


What about this?


Maiming Shot (Ex): At 3rd level an Iron Tower Elite may perform a maiming shot against a foe's legs at a -4 penalty. If the target of this attack fails to succeed on a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + Iron Tower Elite's class level + Dex Modifier*), it is slowed until it is treated with a successful DC 15 heal check, or with a cure spell.
*or Int?

It's a 5-level progression, class. As such setting the DC by class level caps it inappropriately low. I would suggest (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + DEX) this keeps it scaling at an even rate. DC 15 + Dex just wouldn't remain very relevant for very long.

I think it's entirely fair for the heal check to be equal to the abilties save DC. Poison gets this benefit, I see no real reason physical injuries shouldn't. That said, heal is a rare skill to pump (I can't think of any bad guys I've statted who had even 1 rank) so it isn't a huge deal.

Offing it with a 0th-level spells seems iffy too, honestly. I know it seems in-line with something like Caltrops, but this an 9th-level class ability not a 1gp item. There is just no way they should have the same solution. Maybe something more like a Lesser Restoration would be more appropriate?

Other than that, I think it's pretty good. Slow is a mighty powerful debuff, as it costs actions - the most powerful thing in the game. So I think you're hitting the right power for the level.

Oh, as I side note Superior Armor Proficiency really feels like one feature. It's just clogging the table as written. Leaving it as a level 1 entry, and saying it gives you a +1 bonus, plus another 1 for every 2 levels beyond the first gives you the same effect.

Calmar
2009-06-26, 09:00 AM
It's a 5-level progression, class. As such setting the DC by class level caps it inappropriately low. I would suggest (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + DEX) this keeps it scaling at an even rate. DC 15 + Dex just wouldn't remain very relevant for very long.

I think it's entirely fair for the heal check to be equal to the abilties save DC. Poison gets this benefit, I see no real reason physical injuries shouldn't. That said, heal is a rare skill to pump (I can't think of any bad guys I've statted who had even 1 rank) so it isn't a huge deal.

Offing it with a 0th-level spells seems iffy too, honestly. I know it seems in-line with something like Caltrops, but this an 9th-level class ability not a 1gp item. There is just no way they should have the same solution. Maybe something more like a Lesser Restoration would be more appropriate?
Sounds good to me.


Other than that, I think it's pretty good. Slow is a mighty powerful debuff, as it costs actions - the most powerful thing in the game. So I think you're hitting the right power for the level.
Thanks! :smallsmile:
Now, do we have to make sure somehow that this ability doesn't work in combination with the Penetrating Shot ability? Maybe making Maiming Shot a standard action and Penetrating Shot part of a full round action?
Besides, I consider to drop the third attack granted by the Swift Reload ability...


Oh, as I side note Superior Armor Proficiency really feels like one feature. It's just clogging the table as written. Leaving it as a level 1 entry, and saying it gives you a +1 bonus, plus another 1 for every 2 levels beyond the first gives you the same effect.
I thought it should work similar to the descriptions of trap sense or the Dragon Disciple's ability boosts.

[I'm posting infrequently, because I unfortunately do not have much time, at present. :smallfrown:]

Mr.Moron
2009-06-26, 11:50 AM
Now, do we have to make sure somehow that this ability doesn't work in combination with the Penetrating Shot ability? Maybe making Maiming Shot a standard action and Penetrating Shot part of a full round action?
Besides, I consider to drop the third attack granted by the Swift Reload ability...


Absolutely not. It allows a save and that is merciful enough. No need to force it against a high AC or suck up precious actions. The real slow is an ability that comes it at 5th level, requires no attack rolls, hits multiple targets, and targets will (generally, a much lower save than fortitude).