Wire Warrior, Base Class

[13_CBS]

The Wire Warrior

http://www.ifc.com/images/cast/photos/286x286_basilisk_yashamaru2_cast_mini_gallery_thum b_0_1.jpg


My very first homebrewed class! :smallbiggrin:

A lot of us have seen examples of Razor Floss (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.RazorFloss) here and there (in anime such as Hellsing or in games like Warhammer 40k in the form of Eldar monofilament wire, etc), and I in particular like seeing fictional characters wielding such exotic weaponry. This class is an adaptation of sorts of that ideal.

This Wire Warrior class (working name) is strongly inspired by the anime character pictured above, Yashamaru, and thus many of its class features and attacks are based off of how Yashamaru fights in the Basilisk anime (clip of him fighting here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdB5mDTT2i0&feature=related): start at 3:19 and end at 4:00). I did, however, try to incorporate some Razor Floss elements from other sources, on top of a few tricks to help the Wire Warrior out against various monsters and classes.


The Wire Warrior is designed to fight from a distance (hence the d6 HD) but also relies on having to physically attack his opponents (hence the Full BAB). He can dish out plenty of damage if he wants, but he can also do some battlefield control and debuffing. A lot of his stuff depends on him grappling the opponent(s), and to this end I added several features to help overcome typical grappling problems such as size and Freedom of Movement.


His main attractions are his Wire Techniques and Wire Augmentations. Wire Techniques function much the way Invocations work--take standard actions to perform, and you can do them as many times per day as you want. Augmentations are personal buffs that last for rounds/level. Techniques are attacks or other battlefield effects, while Augmentations usually give buffs to the Wire Warrior.


Wire Warrior

Alignment: Any

Hit Die: d6

Class Skills: Climb (dex), Craft (wires), Escape Artist (dex), Hide (dex) Jump (dex), Profession (wis), Sleight of Hand (dex), Swim (Str), Tumble (dex), Use Rope (dex)

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2+Int bonus) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int bonus

The Wire Warrior is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor. Armor penalty checks apply to all Wire Manipulations and Wire Techniques.

{table]Level:|BAB:|Fort:|Ref:|Will|Special|
1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Wire Novice, Wire Manipulation, New Technique
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|New Technique
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Wire Shield, New Augmentation
4th|+4|+1|+4|+1| New Technique
5th|+5|+1|+4|+1| New Augmentation
6th|+6/+1|+2|+5|+1|Wire Adept, New Technique
7th|+7/+2|+2|+5|+2| New Augmentation
8th|+8/+3|+2|+6|+2|New Technique
9th|+9/+4|+3|+6|+3|Wire Armor
10th|+10/+5|+3|+7|+3|New Augmentation
11th|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+3|Wire Disciple, New Technique
12th|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+4|New Augmentation
13th|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+4|Mass Entangling, New Technique
14th|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+4|New Augmentation
15th|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+5|Leg Wires
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+5|Wire Master, New Technique
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|New Augmentation
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|New Technique
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|Mass Entangling, Greater; New Augmentation
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|Supreme Mastery, New Technique [/table]


Wire Manipulation (ex)


The primary ability of any Wire Warrior is his skill in handling Razor Wire. These wires are bonded to the Warrior through an obscure ritual, giving him unnatural control over these mysterious and exotic weapons. They are technically not steel, but are as hard and almost as tough. Each wire is about as thick as a human hair.

Razor Wire
Exotic Weapon
Damage: 1d3 slashing
Hardness: 10
HP: 10
Cost: 100 gp per pair
Ignores 5 points of hardness

Razor Wire can be magically enchanted like any other magic weapon.

Although they are Exotic Weaponry, Razor Wire cannot be handled at all by anyone without the Wire Manipulation (ex) ability. Anyone without this ability who tries to use Razor Wire must make a DC 15 Reflex Save or become entangled. Razor Wire takes 1 hour to untangle. Anyone without Wire Manipulation cannot attack, use Wire Techniques, or use Wire Augmentations
with or on Razor Wire.

Razor Wire is typically stored by coiling them around the arms or legs. Coiling them or uncoiling them is a free action as long as the Wire Warrior is able to perform the Retract/Extend ability.

The reach of Razor Wire is its length. However, due to the difficulty of using them, Razor Wire cannot be used to do the following:

Trip
Disarm
Attacks of Opportunity

Razor Wire operate in pairs (one end of the string for each hand), and the Wire Warrior starts off being able to manipulate one pair of Razor Wires. A Wire Warrior counts as not having Wire Manipulation for any extra pairs of Razor Wire that he cannot manipulate. For example, a level 7 Wire Warrior can only use 2 pairs of wires at once: if he tries to use 3, he counts as not having Wire Manipulation, and thus must make a Reflex Save to avoid becoming entangled. On top of this, Wire Warrior counts as not having Wire Manipulation if he tries to control wires that are too long for him.

Upon learning Wire Manipulation, the Wire Warrior gains the following abilities:

Grapple:

The Wire Warrior is able to make Grapple his opponents using not his body but his razor wires. To do so, he must make a successful Grapple check against any opponent within range of his wires, which is simply the length of his wires. The Grapple proceeds as normal, except for the following:

[list]
If the Wire Warrior is out of reach of an opponent's melee weapon, he does not provoke AoO.

The Wire Warrior does not add his Strength bonus to his Grapple check: instead, he adds his Dexterity bonus, plus 2 for every pair of wires that are used in grappling. He also gets size bonuses, which will be discussed later.

When the Grapple is successful, the grappled opponent becomes Entangled. If it tries to move outside of the Razor Wire's reach, then the opponent must make a Strength check (DC = 10 + Wire Warrior's Dex bonus + 2 for every pair of Razor Wire involved). If it Succeeds, the opponent moves at half speed and the Wire Warrior is pulled along with it.

While grappling an opponent or opponents, the Wire Warrior may not:

Use a magic item that requires his hands
Cast a spell with a somatic component
Cannot retrieve a spell component
Cannot use a light weapon
Cannot pin
Cannot use the opponent's weapon
Do anything requiring the use of hands other than a Wire Manipulation ability, a Technique, or activating an Augmentation

The Wire Warrior may move at his full speed while Grappling an opponent with his Razor Wire. However, he must make an opposing Strength check to move outside the range of his wires.

Squares between the Wire Warrior and any grappled opponents become Difficult Terrain.

If applicable, an opponent can make a Reflex save (DC 10 + WW's Dex bonus + 2 for every pair of Razor Wire involved) immediately after failing the Grapple check. If it succeeds on its save, it can shove a one-handed or light weapon or small shield in the way of the wires. If it does so, it is considered to be Guarding.


Tighten:

On an opponent Grappled by the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires, the Wire Warrior may clench his fingers and slice his entangled opponent into pieces. This requires a standard action, but does not provoke AoO.

At Level 1, the Wire Warrior deals 1d6 + Dex bonus damage to all grappled opponents for every pair of Razor Wire involved.

At Level 6, the Wire Warrior deals 1d8 + Dex bonus damage to all grappled opponents for every pair of Razor Wire involved.

At Level 11, the Wire Warrior deals 2d8 + Dex bonus damage to all grappled opponents for every pair of Razor Wire involved.

At Level 16, the Wire Warrior deals 3d8 + Dex bonus damage to all grappled opponents for every pair of Razor Wire involved.

If the opponent is Guarding, then deal half the damage to the object and half the damage to the opponent.

The Wire Warrior can Tighten on opponents grappled by his Razor Wire on successive turns as long as they are grappled. There is no save from Tighten damage.


Retract/Extend:

As a free action, recall and retract all wires back to their storage positions or extend them, making them ready for use. The Wire Warrior must have his Razor Wire extended in order for him to Grapple, use Techniques, or activate Augmentations. Retract cannot be used to pull or winch objects closer to the Wire Warrior.



Wire Novice (ex): At level 1, the Wire Warrior takes his first steps into mastering his Razor Wire. Wire Novice grants the Wire Warrior the ability to:

Control up to 1 pair of wires
Learn any Novice Techniques
Learn any Novice Augmentations
Grapple/trip as a creature one size larger

The maximum length of wire the Wire Warrior can control is 30 ft. He can grapple with his Razor Wire up to 2 different opponents within reach.


Wire Adept (ex): At level 6, the Wire Warrior makes further progress into his art. Wire Adept grants the Wire Warrior the ability to:

Control up to 2 pairs of wires
Learn any Adept or Novice Techniques
Learn any Adept or Novice Augmentations
Grapple/trip as a creature 1 size larger (stacks with Wire Novice)

The maximum length of wire the Wire Warrior can control is 60 ft. He can grapple with his Razor Wire up to 4 different opponents within reach.


Wire Disciple (ex): At level 11, the Wire Warrior has gained great control over his wires. Wire Disciple grants the Wire Warrior the ability to:

Control up to 3 pairs of wires
Learn any Disciple, Adept, or Novice Techniques
Learn any Disciple, Adept, or Novice Augmentatons
Grapple/trip as a creature 1 size larger (stacks with Wire Novice, Wire Adept)

The maximum length of wire the Wire Warrior can control is 90 ft. He can grapple with his Razor Wire up to 6 different opponents within reach.


Wire Master (ex): At level 16, the Wire Warrior can be called a master of his art. Wire Master grants the Wire Warrior the ability to:

Control up to 4 pairs of wires
Learn any Techniques
Learn any Augmentations
Grapple/trip as a creature 1 size larger (stacks with Wire Disciple, Wire Adept, Wire Novice)



Wire Shield (ex): at level 3, the Wire Warrior gains the ability to use his wires as a means of protection. When he has any wires extended, he can make a Reflex save against a melee attack (DC = opponent's attack roll) to add a +2 shield bonus to his AC for every pair of wires extended before the blow lands.

Wire Armor (ex): at level 9, the Wire Warrior gains the ability to use his wires as armor. He gains +2 to his AC for every pair of wires he can manipulate.

Mass Targeting (ex): at level 13, the Wire Warrior can target additional opponents. For every 30 ft. of wire he can control, he can grapple (with his wires) an additional opponent.

For example, a level 14 Wire Warrior can normally target only 6 opponents for Grappling or for a Technique. However, with Mass Targeting he can now target 9 opponents (6 + 3, 1 for every 30 ft. of wire).


Leg Wires (ex): at level 15, the Wire Warrior can attach an additional pair of wires to his legs. 3/day the Wire Warrior can, as an immediate action, deal 1d6 damage + Dex bonus/ level of Wire Warrior to an attacking melee opponent. The leg wires must be Retracted in order to be used again. These wires cannot be used for Techniques or Grappling, though they can be Extended/Retracted or Augmented. They do not count against the maximum number of pairs of wires the Wire Warrior can control.

Mass Targeting, Greater (ex): At level 19, the Wire Warrior can target additional opponents. For every 30 ft. of wire he can control, he can grapple (with his wires) 2 additional opponents. This replaces Mass Targeting.

For example, a level 19 Wire Warrior can normally target only 8 opponents for Grappling or for a Technique. However, with Mass Targeting he can now target 16 opponents (8 + 8, 2 for every 30 ft. of wire).


Supreme Mastery (ex): At level 20, the Wire Warrior gains total control over his Razor Wires. He gains an extra standard action for the purpose of using a Wire Manipulation ability or a Technique, and a swift action for the purpose of using an Augmentation. The Wire Warrior also gains the ability to have 2 augmentations on at the same time.


Now, for the fun part! Techniques!


Wire Techniques (Su)

Wire Techniques are abilities that the Wire Warrior has to directly influence his opponents. Unless specified, they are standard actions and provoke AoO.


Novice Techniques
Disarm: Attempt to disarm opponents with wires. Wire Warrior gets a +2 bonus for disarming for every pair of wire involved.

Entrancing Wires: Fascinate opponents with a wire show. This does not affect blind opponents. Opponents must make a will save (DC 10 + the Wire Warrior's Dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or be Fascinated for 1 round.

Secure: Wrap wires around an object and use it to climb up or swing across
a chasm. Weight limit for the Razor Wires is twice the Wire Warrior's weight at level 1, four times the Wire Warrior's weight at level 6, eight times the Wire Warrior's weight at level 11, and ten times the Wire Warrior's weight at level 16.

Stiffen: Make your wires very stiff, letting you walk across them or make the terrain difficult. Weight limit for the Razor Wires is the Wire Warrior's weight at level 1, the Wire Warrior's weight + 100 pounds at level 6, the Wire Warrior's weight + 150 pounds at level 11, and the Wire Warrior's weight + 200 pounds at level 16. Walking across the wires requires a Balance check DC 20. Opponents attempting to cross the terrain made difficult by these wires must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + the Wire Warrior's Dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or take 1d6 damage.

Trip: Attempt to trip opponents with wires.

Wire Sense: See and listen through the tips of your wires. You do not gain darkvision, low-light vision, or any kind of special sight, such as True Sight or See Invisibility, unless you are able to do so at the time you use this Technique. You can also make Spot and Listen checks through your wires. The wires can be blinded and deafened, but this does not affect their combat abilities in any way.

Adept Techniques
Barrier: Make a Wall of Blades in a line extending out from you. Anyone trying to pass through the line takes 1d4 + dex bonus damage/level. Barrier provides cover against any attack passing through it (+4 to AC, +2 to Reflex saves). The slashing line of wires lasts until your next turn. Anyone in the way of the wires upon Barrier's activation may make a DC 10 Reflex save to get out of the way--success means no damage, failure means half the damage you would normally take from passing through the Barrier.

Disruptive Wires: Force grappled opponents to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Wire Warrior's dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or take a -4 penalty to all saves, attack rolls, and AC.

Needle: Using your Stiffened wires, impale opponents and encourage them to stop moving. Make a ranged touch attack against an opponent within range of your wires. If it hits, the enemy is takes 4 damage for every pair of Razor Wire used and becomes Needled until the Wire Wariror's next turn. A Needled opponent takes 10 damage for every pair of wires if it moves at all (attacks, makes a move action, casts a spell with a somatic component, etc). Squares between the Wire Warrior and Needled opponents become Difficult until the Wire Warrior's next turn.

Pull: Pull Secured objects or grappled opponents to you. Objects equal to the Wire Warrior's weight move at 30 ft. per round. Objects that are any heavier move 10 ft. more slowly for every 50 pounds it is heavier than the Wire Warrior. Every extra pair of wires increase the limit to twice the Wire Warrior's weight.

Sap Strength: Deal Strength damage to grappled opponents. Subsequent attempts to deal Strength damage occur at a cumulative -10 penalty to the Wire Warrior's grapple check. No save.

Sap Will: Deal Wisdom damage to grappled opponents. Subsequent attempts to deal Wisdom damage occur at a cumulative -10 penalty to the Wire Warrior's grapple check. No save.

Vampiric Wires: Vampiric Touch against grappled opponents as a wizard equal to your levels in Wire Warrior. You cannot drain any more hitpoints than the grappled opponent's current amount of hitpoints. Creatures that are not alive (undead, constructs, etc.) are immune to this effect. No save.


Disciple Techniques

Dazing Wires: Force grappled opponents to make a Fort save (DC 10 + dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or become dazed.

Hurl: Throw around Secured objects or grappled opponents. The weight limit is the Wire Warrior's weight plus 50 pounds for every pair of Razor Wire used. The thrown object or creature moves up to twice the wires' maximum length and takes 1d8 damage for every 30 feet moved. Grappled opponents can make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) to avoid being thrown. If successful, nothing happens and the Wire Warrior wastes a standard action.

Sap Life: Deal Constitution Damage to grappled opponents. Subsequent attempts to deal Constitution damage occur at a cumulative -10 penalty to the Wire Warrior's grapple check. No save.

Sap Magic: Dispel a random magical buff on each grappled opponent. Opponents that succeed on their Fortitude save (DC 10 + dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) do not lose their magical buffs.

Sap Wits: Deal Intelligence Damage to grappled opponents. Subsequent attempts to deal Intelligence damage occur at a cumulative -10 penalty to the Wire Warrior's grapple check. No save.

Wire Field: As Barrier, except in a 60 ft. cone emanating from you.

Wire Fortress: As Barrier, except in a 60 ft. burst centered on you.


Master Techniques

Blender: Turn enemy organs to mush! 1/day + your dexterity mod, Needled opponent must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or die instantly. Opponents that succeed their saves or are immune to criticals instead take normal Tightening damage.

Eviscerate: A particularly violent version of Tighten that does double the Tighten damage on grappled opponents.

Marionette: Insert wires into grappled enemies to control them. This does 5 damage per pair of wires to the grappled opponents. The opponents must then make a Fortitude save (DC 15 + dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or have their bodies controlled by the Wire Warrior. Success means that the opponents instead take normal tightening damage.

Since the control mechanism is awkward, opponents controlled this way have a -4 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Controlled opponents can only perform purely physical actions--they cannot cast spells, manifest powers, use invocations, speak Truespeech, bind Vestiges, use Supernatural or Spell-like-abilities, etc. If they have a natural means of flight, they can fly; if not, they cannot fly. Controlled opponents take 5 damage per pair of wires at the beginning of their turn and can make another Fortitude save (same DC) to wrest free of control (if they succeed, they take normal tightening damage).

Sap Essence: Bestow one negative level to grappled enemies. Subsequent attempts to bestow negative levels occur at a cumulative -10 penalty to the Wire Warrior's grapple check. No save.

Stunning Wires: Force grappled opponents to make a Fort save at a -4 penalty (DC 15 + dex bonus + 2 for every pair of wires involved) or be stunned for 1 round.



Wire Augmentations (Su)

Wire Augmentations modify and improve the Razor Wires themselves. Unless specified, they are swift actions and do not provoke AoO, and last 1 round/level of Wire Warrior or until they are dismissed (free action). Only 1 augmentation may be active at any time

Novice Augmentations

Hardening: Wires ignore 15 points of hardness.

Lengthening: Wires become longer by 5 ft. at Wire Warrior level 1, 15 ft. at level 6, 30 ft. at level 11, and 45 ft. at level 16.

Toughening: The Break DC of wires becomes 15 + Dex bonus of wire user + weapon enhancement bonus + 5 for every extra pair of wires.

Sharpening: At any time the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires do damage, add 1d4 damage for every pair of wires; upgrades to 1d6 damage at level 6, 1d8 damage at level 11, and 2d8 at level 16.


Adept Augmentations

Burning: At any time the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires do damage, either add 1d4 fire damage for every pair of wires (increases to 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 11, 2d8 at level 16) or convert half of all normal damage dealt by wires into fire damage.

Freezing: At any time the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires do damage, either add 1d4 cold damage for every pair of wires (increases to 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 11, 2d8 at level 16) or convert half of all normal damage dealt by wires into cold damage.

Shocking: At any time the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires do damage, either add 1d4 electricty damage for every pair of wires (increases to 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 11, 2d8 at level 16) or convert half of all normal damage dealt by wires into electricity damage.

Transmuting: All Razor Wires become cold iron or alchemical silver for the purpose of overcoming DR.



Disciple Augmentations

Aligning: All Razor Wires become Good or Evil, and Chaotic or Lawful, for the purpose of overcoming DR.

Ensnaring: Grapple attempts by the Wire Warrior with his Razor Wire ignore Freedom of Movement.

Exorcising: All Razor Wires gain the Ghost Touch enhancement.

Screaming: At any time the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires do damage, either add 1d4 sonic damage for every pair of wires (increases to 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 11, 2d8 at level 16) or convert half of all normal damage dealt by wires into sonic damage. Wires deals full damage to objects and creatures of the Construct type.


Master Augmentations

Cut Anything: All Razor Wires ignore hardness, bypasses DR/Adamantine, and can cut through even force effects. As a full action, a Wire Warrior armed with Razor Wire augmented with Cut Anything can make an attempt to destroy a 10 foot section of Wall of Force, destroy one Forcecage, or similar. The Wire Warrior must make a Dexterity check (with +2 bonuses for every pair of wires involved) vs the spell's Save DC to destroy the force effect.

Concussing: At any time the Wire Warrior's Razor Wires do damage, either add 1d4 force damage for every pair of wires (increases to 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 11, 2d8 at level 16) or convert half of all normal damage dealt by wires into force damage. Wires deals full damage to Ethereal creatures.

Cloaking: All Razor Wires become invisible, adding a +5 bonus to attack rolls made with Razor Wires. Any reflex saves made against Razor Wire effects (except for Wire Shield) incur a -10 penalty.

Unbreaking: All Razor Wires gain Hardness 15 and HP 50, and opponents grappled by these Razor Wires cannot attempt to break them.




Current concerns:

1) Is this thing balanced at all? I don't have a lot of experience in D&D, so it's difficult for me to eyeball whether or not a DC 10 + Dexterity bonus + 2, +4, +6, or +8 is a difficult DC to make at low levels, mid levels, and high levels, and so forth.

2) I really need to come up with better names.

3) Would anyone be willing to playtest this once all the kinks are sorted out?

[Eldhusgaur]

Blender and Disintegrate unlimited times per day?
Me thinks it should be once per day + dex mod, and if you choose one you can't choose the other. Otherwise you could, what? Disintegrate 2-3 dudes per turn as many times you want per day? Cool for manga, but WAY out there for D&D IMHO.

[ChronoDwarf]

current concerns:

1) Is this thing balanced at all? I don't have a lot of experience in D&D, so it's difficult for me to eyeball whether or not a DC 10 + Dexterity bonus + 2, +4, +6, or +8 is a difficult DC to make at low levels, mid levels, and high levels, and so forth.

2) I really need to come up with better names.

3) Would anyone be willing to playtest this once all the kinks are sorted out?


The saves are relatively high for the level. so Id take one off forthe first level bonus and two for the other level bonus, after that it should be ok.


Its definitely not a front line warrior but it would work better if you took off swim and added hide, because of the fact that it is highly dex opperated from what I gathered, not strength. Plus I get the raogue type feel.

For the purpose of name I cant help you.

As for play testing I am running a game in about a week and I wouldnt mind allowing one of my players test it for you. (He's a noob and is relying on me to make his character)

[Eldrys]

Just a nitpick, but you forgot to bold the Wire Disciple class feature.

[DracoDei]

Strictly interprited, Secure is worthless until level 6 since before that any equipment other than the cloths on your back and arguible the wire-whip themselves causes it to fail. I suggest 25 lb or some such... and if you were REALLY going to do it right I would also have it scale with the size class of the character.

[13_CBS]

Blender and Disintegrate unlimited times per day?
Me thinks it should be once per day + dex mod, and if you choose one you can't choose the other. Otherwise you could, what? Disintegrate 2-3 dudes per turn as many times you want per day? Cool for manga, but WAY out there for D&D IMHO.

Hmm...agreed.

I'm thinking about removing Disintegrate entirely, actually--just something about it doesn't sit with me flavorwise.


current concerns:

The saves are relatively high for the level. so Id take one off forthe first level bonus and two for the other level bonus, after that it should be ok.


I understand the first part, but not the second part. :smallconfused:



As for play testing I am running a game in about a week and I wouldnt mind allowing one of my players test it for you. (He's a noob and is relying on me to make his character)

Awesome! Thanks.




Strictly interprited, Secure is worthless until level 6 since before that any equipment other than the cloths on your back and arguible the wire-whip themselves causes it to fail. I suggest 25 lb or some such... and if you were REALLY going to do it right I would also have it scale with the size class of the character.

Huh, why DID I do it like that? :smallconfused: I'll fix it right away. I'll have to leave the "scales with size class" part out, though, since I don't recall there being any rules about bigger creatures necessarily being able to pull more.

[imp_fireball]

Huh, why DID I do it like that? :smallconfused: I'll fix it right away. I'll have to leave the "scales with size class" part out, though, since I don't recall there being any rules about bigger creatures necessarily being able to pull more.

The greater the size, the greater the encumberance limit - if that's what you're confused about.

[13_CBS]

Ooh, that that thing. I remember now. I'll think about it.

Meanwhile, what do you guys think about these feats?


Arcane Wire-Channeling:
Prerequisites: Ability to cast touch-range arcane spells, Wire Adept

Benefit: On grappled opponents, you can discharge a held touch-range arcane spell as a standard action. The spell's save and effects are as normal.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Divine Wire-Channeling:
Prerequisites: Ability to cast touch-range divine spells, Wire Adept

Benefit: On grappled opponents, you can discharge a held touch-range divine spell as a standard action. The spell's save and effects are as normal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Psionic Wire-Channeling:
Prerequisites: Ability to manifest touch-range powers, Wire Adept

Benefit: On grappled opponents, you can discharge a held touch-range psionic power as a standard action. The power's save and effects are as normal.

[13_CBS]

So...that's it? No more comments? But I worked really hard on this thing...:smallfrown:

[Worira]

It's really, really powerful.

[Anxe]

You should work up some simple feats so that a Wire Warrior can trip, disarm, and make AoO with his wires. And maybe give him the ability at some level to take weapon specialization with his wires.

EDIT: Nevermind on the trip and disarm. I see you already handled that now.

[Anxe]

It also needs a list of armor and weapon proficiencies. And do the wire armor and wire shield abilities stack with each other? Do they stack with normal armor and shields?

[Anxe]

The Adept techniques seems overbalanced.
How much damage do sap strength and sap will do? It shouldn't be more than one.
Disruptive wires seems overpowered. Basically what it does now is during a wire grapple you can force your opponent to make save and if they fail then the opponent's grapple check becomes worse. It doesn't say if you can do this ability more than once to the same person and it doesn't say how long it lasts. Both should be included and the ability might need to be toned down to -2.
Barrier is a fine ability only if it cannot hit someone. In the text it should say that if anybody is in the line that is created by the wires they can make a reflex save to get to one side or the other and take no damage. Even then it might be overpowered. You've basically given the wire warrior a lightning bolt like ability that can be used at will and actually deals more damage than lightning bolt does.

The Disciple techniques suffer from the same problem as Adept. What exactly do sap life and sap wits do? Wire Field and Wire Fortress are fine and so are the other abilities.

The Master Techniques seem fine to me. The only weird one is Stunning Wires which actually seems underpowered. The differences between Blender and Disintegrating Wires isn't significant enough for them to be different abilities. Seems like the doubling of them is just more chances for a death effect.

The Adept Augmentations all have this or that effects. Is that chosen when the ability is first acquired and can never change after that or can a different choice be made everytime the augmentations are used?

The Aligning Augmentation should be made so that it can't oppose the Wire warrior's alignment. A Lawful Good Wire Warrior with Unholy Anarchic Wires wouldn't make much sense... This augmentation also needs to be made clear just like the Adept Augmentations.

For Master Augmentations Cut Anything and Unbreakable should probably both give the wires the ability to bypass adamantite DR. And does the Cloaking Augmentation allow sneak attack damage?

That's all I can think of that needs to be changed. I like the class. I hope to use it in my campaign someday when the plot is less complicated.

[Shpadoinkle]

Personally, I think the idea of this being a class should be dropped, and the special abilities should be reworked into a custom martial discipline available to warblades and swordsages.

[13_CBS]

The Adept techniques seems overbalanced.
How much damage do sap strength and sap will do? It shouldn't be more than one.

I can't believe I completely forgot to add how much ability damage the Sap techniques do. :facepalm: :smallsigh:

Why only 1 damage per turn? Is 2 too much?



Disruptive wires seems overpowered. Basically what it does now is during a wire grapple you can force your opponent to make save and if they fail then the opponent's grapple check becomes worse. It doesn't say if you can do this ability more than once to the same person and it doesn't say how long it lasts. Both should be included and the ability might need to be toned down to -2.


Noted.



Barrier is a fine ability only if it cannot hit someone. In the text it should say that if anybody is in the line that is created by the wires they can make a reflex save to get to one side or the other and take no damage. Even then it might be overpowered. You've basically given the wire warrior a lightning bolt like ability that can be used at will and actually deals more damage than lightning bolt does.

Huh, I forgot it could do that. The point of Barrier is, obviously, to give the Wire Warrior a chance at some battlefield control, not to attack people directly with it. How about a really easy Reflex save to get out of the way? Say, a DC 10 or 15?



The Disciple techniques suffer from the same problem as Adept. What exactly do sap life and sap wits do? Wire Field and Wire Fortress are fine and so are the other abilities.


And once again, 13_CBS forgets to write down what the abilities actually do. :smallsigh:



The Master Techniques seem fine to me. The only weird one is Stunning Wires which actually seems underpowered.


Really? I thought Stunning was a fairly powerful ability. Is it weaker than I thought?



The differences between Blender and Disintegrating Wires isn't significant enough for them to be different abilities. Seems like the doubling of them is just more chances for a death effect.


Which was why I was thinking of removing Disintegrating Wires. The flavor's a bit weird, anyway.



The Adept Augmentations all have this or that effects. Is that chosen when the ability is first acquired and can never change after that or can a different choice be made everytime the augmentations are used?


I don't quite get what you mean by "this or that" effects. :smallconfused:



The Aligning Augmentation should be made so that it can't oppose the Wire warrior's alignment. A Lawful Good Wire Warrior with Unholy Anarchic Wires wouldn't make much sense... This augmentation also needs to be made clear just like the Adept Augmentations.


Fair point.



For Master Augmentations Cut Anything and Unbreakable should probably both give the wires the ability to bypass adamantite DR. And does the Cloaking Augmentation allow sneak attack damage?


Noted for Cut Anything, but I'm not quite as sure for Unbreakable. Fluff wise, I'm thinking that the wires become tougher, not harder and sharper, a bit like the way steel is tougher than pig iron while being softer.




It also needs a list of armor and weapon proficiencies. And do the wire armor and wire shield abilities stack with each other? Do they stack with normal armor and shields?

I already added a list of armor and weapon proficiencies. It's right above the BAB progression chart.

But that's a good point. Crunch wise, would it be overpowered at certain levels if Wire Shield and Wire Armor stack with shield and armor bonuses? I should also specify whether or not armor dexterity check penalties apply to wire usage (which they do).




Personally, I think the idea of this being a class should be dropped, and the special abilities should be reworked into a custom martial discipline available to warblades and swordsages.

Why do you think that? Do you not like the flavor of the class? The entire point of the Wire Warrior base class is to let people use good ol' Razor Floss, and I threw in some special abilities to keep them competitive at higher levels.

Edit: As for Cloaking, it's not going to do sneak attack damage.

[Anxe]

I said 1 damage for the Sap abilities because the Swashbuckler gets a similar ability. The Swashbuckler deals 2 ability damage, but only on critical hits. The Wire Warrior's ability can be used far more often than a critical hit is going to happen, so it should deal less damage to compensate.

I think DC 15 is a good amount for the Barrier's Reflex save. Or maybe something else small like DC 10 + 1/2 Wire Warrior's level.

I've always found that Stunning is a fairly weak ability. What the Wire Warrior is doing with that ability is using half of his round to prevent one other creature from possibly not getting it's round. Compared to other high level abilities it seems kinda weak.

I think the Wire Shield and Wire Armor abilities should stack with each other, but not with other shield and armor bonuses. And the Wire Warrior should be able to enchant them as armor as well as weapons. Just remember that enchanting for both doubles the cost of the more expensive portion. And if the Wires have three different enchantments on them (Shield, Armor, and Weapon). That's going to be very pricey.

What I meant by the "This or that" of adept abilities is: "either add 1d4 cold damage for every pair of wires (increases to 1d6 at level 6, 1d8 at level 11, 2d8 at level 16) or convert half of all normal damage dealt by wires into cold damage."
Does the Wire Warrior choose to add 1d4 cold damage to his wires or convert half damage to cold when he first gets this ability? And after that level is gained then the Wire Warrior can never change what the ability does? Or does the Wire Warrior choose whether to add damage or make the damage half cold everytime he uses the ability? Hope I made that clear. The same thing applies to all Adept Augmentations.

I must've just missed where the weapon proficiency stuff was. Thanks! You might want to include proficiency in Razor Wires there...

Another thing I'm unclear on is how many attacks each pair of wires gives the Wire Warrior. Is each pair of wires effectively one weapon? Or can he attack two people with the same pair of wires when he only has one attack from his base attack bonus?

[Shpadoinkle]

Why do you think that? Do you not like the flavor of the class? The entire point of the Wire Warrior base class is to let people use good ol' Razor Floss, and I threw in some special abilities to keep them competitive at higher levels.

Mostly because I think it's way too specialized to be a base class. Considering there are a billion official base classes already though, I'm aware that that's a really weak argument, but it's not the only point I have.

The other one is that by making it a martial discipline, you don't have to keep track of or learn a whole new system just to use the one class. It would also allow a character to dabble in it if he wants to, and if he wants to focus in this, he can pick up some maneuvers and stances from other schools too to supplement it.

[Anxe]

He does have a point there. Most base classes are general and prestige classes or manuvers are used to focus on specific things like a particular type of weapon. You've already done it well this way though, so why change?

EDIT: Can the Wire Warrior take Weapon Specialization with Razor Wire?

[Knaight]

Plus if your making a custom class then you know exactly what you want, so why bother building extra to begin with?

[Juhn]

The first thing that struck me is that this seems to be very specific, for a base class.

I'll have to have more of a read-through if I'm going to make any other comments, though.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Wait wait wait...

+4 size categories to grapple (+16 bonus).
+8 for 4 pairs of wires.
+20 Base Attack
+10 Dex (easily possible)
+4 for Improved Grapple

Totaling +46 Grapple at 20th level vs. 18 targets...for...how much damage?

+5 Razor Wires
Eviscerate Technique
Screaming and Concussive enhancements
+10 Dexterity

Base of 12d8 + 40 from the wording of the Tighten ability (3d8+Dex/per wire)
Either +5 or +20 damage, depending on how weapon enhancements apply
+16d8 elemental damage from Screaming and Concussive
x2 from Eviscerate

Averaging...oh...342 to 372 (depending on how weapons figure in)...

To 16 targets. Per round. At will. With a grapple high enough to reliably pin a Solar, Balor, or Tyrannosaurus, and go about 50-50 with a Titan. At a range of 90 feet. With no attack roll or save.

To put this in perspective, the Warblade is considered by many to be a balanced Martial class. One of it's most powerful abilities adds +100 damage to a single melee attack against a single foe. The Swordsage's most powerful area-of-effect maneuver deals 100 damage in a 60ft radius...Fire damage (the most commonly resisted), with a save for half. Neither ability is at will...every other round is the QUICKEST they can be used, and that's by wasting a full round (Swordsage), or sacrificing another maneuver or a full-attack routine to make a single melee attack or not attack (Warblade).

Adding the ability to heal yourself (Vampiric Touch), cut force effects, ignore Freedom of Movement, grant large penalties to Attacks, Saves, and AC (-4 as a standard action to multiple opponents at level 6?), deal ability damage, inflict negative levels, cause 10 damage/wire for simply taking an action, dominate, cause death effects, dispel magic, or use Blade Barrier (only better because of the higher damage average and save, and the more useful area) at-will are just adding insult to injury.

Oh...and it gets +8 Armor. On top of it's high Dexterity and +5 Light Armor. That's a little crazy, but nothing compared to the rest of the class. The Wire Shield ability just makes this worse...and also adds millions of rolls...or would, if your grappling weren't so good that nothing will be able to attack you short of a dragon.

It's a nice idea, and the flavor is definitely interesting, but the mechanics are, quite frankly, almost unworkable as written. The techniques are far to potent, have strange DCs, and are usable far to often for the level of power they offer. The augmentations aren't much better, and the sheer amount of almost-unbeatable grappling makes this class incredibly overpowered. If you want it to be valid in a normal game, it needs a serious rewrite. Some good ideas here...but it needs heavy alteration to keep the flavor while balancing the power.

[13_CBS]

@ Djinn: A ha! Your post was precisely what I needed.




+4 size categories to grapple (+16 bonus).
+8 for 4 pairs of wires.
+20 Base Attack
+10 Dex (easily possible)
+4 for Improved Grapple

Totaling +46 Grapple at 20th level vs. 18 targets...for...how much damage?

+5 Razor Wires
Eviscerate Technique
Screaming and Concussive enhancements
+10 Dexterity

Base of 12d8 + 40 from the wording of the Tighten ability (3d8+Dex/per wire)
Either +5 or +20 damage, depending on how weapon enhancements apply
+16d8 elemental damage from Screaming and Concussive
x2 from Eviscerate


Averaging...oh...342 to 372 (depending on how weapons figure in)...

To 16 targets. Per round. At will.


Alright, I'm definitely changing the damage values. But I was also under the impression that a high level melee class (an optimized multiclassed barbarian, for example) could easily do that amount of damage, albeit to only one target at once.

For the record, weapon enhancements apply to the Wires as a whole, not for every wire. That is, a +5 Razor Wire does not do +20 damage even with 4 pairs of wires, only +5.



With a grapple high enough to reliably pin a Solar, Balor, or Tyrannosaurus, and go about 50-50 with a Titan. At a range of 90 feet. With no attack roll or save.


In that case, what's a good total grapple bonus for high level play? I have no idea, since I've never played high level stuff.



To put this in perspective, the Warblade is considered by many to be a balanced Martial class. One of it's most powerful abilities adds +100 damage to a single melee attack against a single foe. The Swordsage's most powerful area-of-effect maneuver deals 100 damage in a 60ft radius...Fire damage (the most commonly resisted), with a save for half. Neither ability is at will...every other round is the QUICKEST they can be used, and that's by wasting a full round (Swordsage), or sacrificing another maneuver or a full-attack routine to make a single melee attack or not attack (Warblade).


I'll use this as a standard for calibrating damage, then.



Adding the ability to heal yourself (Vampiric Touch), cut force effects, ignore Freedom of Movement, grant large penalties to Attacks, Saves, and AC (-4 as a standard action to multiple opponents at level 6?), deal ability damage, inflict negative levels, cause 10 damage/wire for simply taking an action, dominate, cause death effects, dispel magic, or use Blade Barrier (only better because of the higher damage average and save, and the more useful area) at-will are just adding insult to injury.


If I made the techniques less at will and more like martial Maneuvers, how balanced would it be? Still broken?



Oh...and it gets +8 Armor. On top of it's high Dexterity and +5 Light Armor. That's a little crazy, but nothing compared to the rest of the class.


I'm seriously thinking of making Wire Armor be an armor bonus so that it won't stack with actual worn armor.



It's a nice idea, and the flavor is definitely interesting, but the mechanics are, quite frankly, almost unworkable as written. The techniques are far to potent, have strange DCs, and are usable far to often for the level of power they offer. The augmentations aren't much better, and the sheer amount of almost-unbeatable grappling makes this class incredibly overpowered. If you want it to be valid in a normal game, it needs a serious rewrite. Some good ideas here...but it needs heavy alteration to keep the flavor while balancing the power.

And you're completely right :smalleek:

What I need now is advice on how to adjust things. The Techniques and Augmentations have to be toned down, of course, but do you guys think they should be made slightly more powerful and available for a limited number of times per day or make them less powerful but at will (like invocations)? I'll also need help on a lot of other things.

[Anxe]

What I need now is advice on how to adjust things. The Techniques and Augmentations have to be toned down, of course, but do you guys think they should be made slightly more powerful and available for a limited number of times per day or make them less powerful but at will (like invocations)? I'll also need help on a lot of other things.

I don't know. Which would you prefer for the flavor?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Just so you know...later tonight I'll be doing a complete appraisal of what I'd personally recommend altering (and how I'd alter it) to balance this out. I'm saying this so you know some critique is forthcoming, but I lack the time to do so now. :smallfrown:

[13_CBS]

I don't know. Which would you prefer for the flavor?

There are flavor justifications for either way. At the moment, I'm a little bit more concerned about the fluff.


Just so you know...later tonight I'll be doing a complete appraisal of what I'd personally recommend altering (and how I'd alter it) to balance this out. I'm saying this so you know some critique is forthcoming, but I lack the time to do so now. :smallfrown:

Sweet! I look forward to it. :smallbiggrin: