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View Full Version : Where's the fremlin



Korivan
2009-06-20, 11:36 PM
Does anybody know if WOTC or anyone converted the fremlin into 3rd=3.5? I really loved playing one of those little stinkers in 2nd.

Kol Korran
2009-06-21, 05:51 AM
wow! that brings up memories. back in 2nd edition i loved to place them in my adventures...

i don't think they were ever upgraded to 3.5 (or at least i don't remember them anywhere), but i wanted to thank you for the small nostalgia trip...

Fremlins, damn!

Tempest Fennac
2009-06-21, 05:57 AM
What are Fremlins? I could help with making a 3.5 version if you need help with it.

afroakuma
2009-06-21, 06:58 AM
These (http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=499) would be fremlins.

only1doug
2009-06-21, 07:12 AM
I recently looked at updating them (a friend of mine wants to play one).

I Lost all my notes on the subject in the move but I think I concluded that they would be a LA1 race (minimum).

I just ran a search (http://www.dogpile.com/dogpile/ws/results/Web/fremlin%20dnd/1/417/TopNavigation/Relevance/iq=true/zoom=off/_iceUrlFlag=7?_IceUrl=true) (4th entry) and enworld has a converted creature listing in their creature catalogue.

Korivan
2009-06-21, 09:23 AM
What are Fremlins? I could help with making a 3.5 version if you need help with it.

Fremlins look like little hairy pudgy monkeys with bat wings. They stand about 1 foot tall, and im not sure if they have a tail or not.

Talking about nastelga, I named one of my fremlin characters (you could make them out of the humanoids handbook) sere a vous the fire guy, we took wooden beams and built out of the minators backpack a little place to live. Sometimes i had him hide in a persons mug, cast cantrips-glowing eyes, and jump out at people when they took a sip :biggrin: ah, good times.

Tempest Fennac
2009-06-21, 09:30 AM
Thanks for explaining. I looked at the Enworld conversion and I'm not sure how to change them into a player race to be honest (extra HDs always throw me out).

Flickerdart
2009-06-21, 09:44 AM
Just let them roll. -2 STR, +4 DEX, a half-decent bite attack (for a Tiny creature, that is) and +8 to Listen. I would say bump them up to Small, knock the DEX bonus to +2 and they can pass as LA0 RHD0 critters.

Edit: Oh, is that a fly speed I spy? LA1, then. Leave the DEX bonus.

only1doug
2009-06-21, 10:16 AM
Just let them roll. -2 STR, +4 DEX, a half-decent bite attack (for a Tiny creature, that is) and +8 to Listen. I would say bump them up to Small, knock the DEX bonus to +2 and they can pass as LA0 RHD0 critters.

Edit: Oh, is that a fly speed I spy? LA1, then. Leave the DEX bonus.

-2 STR, +4 DEX, +8 to Listen, DR10/+1, darkvision 60', fly 30' = LA+1

good strength for tiny creatures, good bite attack. I'd agree that it would be best to bump them to Small and leave the stats the same. DR10/+1 is very nice at low levels and almost useless later on.

Flickerdart
2009-06-21, 10:18 AM
-2 STR, +4 DEX, +8 to Listen, DR10/+1, darkvision 60', fly 30' = LA+1

good strength for tiny creatures, good bite attack. I'd agree that it would be best to bump them to Small and leave the stats the same. DR10/+1 is very nice at low levels and almost useless later on.
DR by enhancement bonus is 3.0, 3.5 would make that more like DR5/magic.

Dagren
2009-06-21, 10:23 AM
Thanks for explaining. I looked at the Enworld conversion and I'm not sure how to change them into a player race to be honest (extra HDs always throw me out).Should tiny little things like this have extra HD? I thought they were for big tough monsters like ogres, who should have like a minimum of hp.

Gralamin
2009-06-21, 10:51 AM
These (http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/view_c.php?CreatureID=499) would be fremlins.

Based on this and Savage Species...

3d8 HD means ECL 3, at least.
Tiny Size is worth a -1 LA
30 ft Fly Speed (Good) is worth +2 LA
DR 10/Magic (Or does it become DR 5/Magic?) +1 LA
Bite (Worth +0 here)
+8 Listen isn't worth any increase.
Dex +4, Str -2 (Unbalanced Scores) Worth +1 LA
Darkvision isn't worth any increase

So According to it, its an ECL 6. However, Clearly that's absurd, so we have to compare it to other creatures.

The Winged Template, Which gives +4 Dex, +2 Wis, and a land Speed + 20 ft Fly speed (That can be up to Perfect) is worth a +2 LA.

What we Have here, in comparable features, is 30 Fly Speed (Good) and Dex +4, Str -2. So We could say that these two combined are worth +1 LA.

So They are now an ECL 4 Race. This means A likely Savage Progression of...

Fremlin

Racial Traits
Starting ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Str.
Speed: 15 ft Land Speed.
Darkvision: 60 ft Darkvision
Tiny Monstrous Humanoid

{table=head]Level|Hit Dice|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skill Points|Special
1|1d8|+1|+0|+2|+2|(2 + Int Mod) x4|+8 Listen, Bite (1d4)
2|1d8|+1|+0|+2|+2|-|DR 5/Magic
3|2d8|+2|+0|+2|+2|(2 + Int Mod)|+2 Dex, Fly 30 ft (Good)
4|3d8|+3|+1|+3|+3|(2 + Int Mod)|DR 10/Magic (If its converted to half instead, Then drop the Fly Speed down to here)[/table]

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-21, 10:58 AM
There's a positive correlation between size and toughness, but they're not directly proportional to each other. Look at quasits, imps, and dragon wyrmlings.

I think that the ENworld fremlin would be balanced at LA +0. (Which strikes me as rare for things with racial hit dice.) Flight, a good attack bonus, DR/10 magic, darkvision, and a +8 Listen bonus in exchange for having to take three Monstrous Humanoid HD? And 0 ft. reach (making the "only bites when cornered" bit fairly mechanically enforced)? Well, yeah, OK. That could make for a decent archer and scout, though not an uber one like a pixie Rogue.

Dagren
2009-06-21, 12:27 PM
There's a positive correlation between size and toughness, but they're not directly proportional to each other. Look at quasits, imps, and dragon wyrmlings.True, I was assuming that it would be a humanoid (or monstrous). Things like outsiders and dragons are considerably tougher. I'm pretty sure that among humanoids (which is what I was considering, perhaps mistakenly), those of small size or smaller all have 1 HD (you get medium sized ones with more, like Bugbears of Gnolls, but kobolds, goblins and even orcs all have 1 HD). Is this thing not a humanoid then?