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Ichneumon
2009-06-21, 05:03 AM
Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.

sofawall
2009-06-21, 05:05 AM
D&D/D20.

I'm slightly biased, however, as I've never played anything else.

Malacode
2009-06-21, 05:19 AM
D20 Modern, SWSE or Gurps would be the systems I'd use for a space opera style game. I'd stay away from Gurps, but that's only because I personally don't have much experience. You'll probably have a different take on the system.

Tengu_temp
2009-06-21, 05:22 AM
There's no "best" system - most of them work differently depending on what setting would you want to run. Exalted has an awesome mechanic for what it's supposed to represent, for example, but wouldn't really work for a cyberpunk game.

If I had to choose one such system, however, I'd choose Mutants and Masterminds 2e - it's wonderfully versatile, being able to easily represent practically any setting, and, unlike GURPS, fast. It's not a game for people who think "if it's legal by RAW then I can take it lol" - there are some combos that can easily break the game, and it's up to the DM and players to make sure that players choose fitting powers rather than overpowered ones. Most game breakers are pointed out in the rulebook, though, so it's easier to avoid cheese than in most other games.

And don't get me started on DND. Even 4e, the first DND I actually like, is merely good at what it does, not exceptional. DND might be the most popular RPG, but it's a prime example that popularity does not mean quality.

Innis Cabal
2009-06-21, 05:25 AM
Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.


Going to guess you mean in our own opinion. Free form is the best imh&ho....

Dhavaer
2009-06-21, 05:28 AM
Shadowrun and Mutunts & Masterminds. The former for lower powered, the latter for higher.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-21, 05:32 AM
I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.
Setting is unrelated to system.

In my opinion, rules-light systems are "best" (in that I prefer them). All three examples you mentioned, however, are among the most rules-heavy systems in existence. So just to see how things might work differently, you could try something like Paranoia, or Amber DRP, or OTE for awhile. Even Whitewolf is less rules-heavy than d20 or GURPS, and it has excellent character generation mechanics.

warmachine
2009-06-21, 05:41 AM
Insufficient data. D20 does high power, heroic fantasy (including space fantasy) better than GURPS but GURPS can handle other genres. In d20, a 1st level character has virtually no chance against a 10th level one. In GURPS, a rookie soldier with an assault rifle can still kill multi-capable veteran adventurers. D20 is combat-oriented, GURPS is roleplay-oriented. D20 is an off-the-shelf system, GURPS is a toolkit system.

In other words, the question cannot be answered unless you describe the level of realism, power level, comedy, combat-orientation etc. that you want in your game.

Ichneumon
2009-06-21, 06:08 AM
Insufficient data. D20 does high power, heroic fantasy (including space fantasy) better than GURPS but GURPS can handle other genres. In d20, a 1st level character has virtually no chance against a 10th level one. In GURPS, a rookie soldier with an assault rifle can still kill multi-capable veteran adventurers. D20 is combat-oriented, GURPS is roleplay-oriented. D20 is an off-the-shelf system, GURPS is a toolkit system.

In other words, the question cannot be answered unless you describe the level of realism, power level, comedy, combat-orientation etc. that you want in your game.

Well the game would be sort of a mix between low and high power, combat would be semi-frequent, but only in the form of ranged laser gun fights and the occasional grapple. It would contain elements like psionics and such the level of realism would be sort of limited and I don't intend to include much comedy in the actual story.

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 06:26 AM
And don't get me started on DND. Even 4e, the first DND I actually like, is merely good at what it does, not exceptional. DND might be the most popular RPG, but it's a prime example that popularity does not mean quality.

Popularity has a quality of it's own. Since D&D is more popular, it's easier to get people to play with you, wich translates in more fun, wich is the point of any game.

I ask you, what's the use of having a perfect gaming system if you don't have anyone to play it with you?:smalltongue:

Foryn Gilnith
2009-06-21, 06:43 AM
True. Quantity has a quality all its own. Sure, you can play the perfect gaming system with as many people as you can proselytize (which would be a lot, because it's perfect). But Wizards of the Coast drags in a huge number of people in its marketing net, and viewing them all is almost as fun as the game itself.

The Rose Dragon
2009-06-21, 06:48 AM
I ask you, what's the use of having a perfect gaming system if you don't have anyone to play it with you?:smalltongue:

That you totally more than compensate when you do get to play, because the game doesn't fall apart when you play it?

That I can create many more types of characters than when I play D&D?

That I already run games in an area with a limited gamer population and thus decide the type of game we'll be running, so I will have people to play it with me if I have people to play at all?

That most of us have poor organizing skills and D&D is one of the games requiring a lot of effort with minimal return?

What's the use of not having a system better than D&D?

Oslecamo
2009-06-21, 07:01 AM
That you totally more than compensate when you do get to play, because the game doesn't fall apart when you play it?


If a game falls apart, it's the player's fault, not of the system itself. Every system has holes, and if the players want to exploit those holes and ruin everybody's fun at all costs, then nothing can stop the game from dying.



That I can create many more types of characters than when I play D&D?

Do you really have the time to play them all?



That I already run games in an area with a limited gamer population and thus decide the type of game we'll be running, so I will have people to play it with me if I have people to play at all?


If you were playing D&D, probably the population wouldn't be so scarce in the first place.



That most of us have poor organizing skills and D&D is one of the games requiring a lot of effort with minimal return?

Some of us actually like the book keeping, just you like don't being able to organize yourself. This is a matter of personal taste.

Tengu_temp
2009-06-21, 07:09 AM
Popularity has a quality of it's own. Since D&D is more popular, it's easier to get people to play with you, wich translates in more fun, wich is the point of any game.

I ask you, what's the use of having a perfect gaming system if you don't have anyone to play it with you?:smalltongue:

The bolded part is logically incorrect. Who cares if there is a crapload of people who want to play DND? I don't need them, I only need 3-6 people to form a group. And it's even easier if you play with people you know - I don't know about your friends, but most of mine are more than willing to try out a new system they've never played before.

The Rose Dragon
2009-06-21, 07:11 AM
If a game falls apart, it's the player's fault, not of the system itself. Every system has holes, and if the players want to exploit those holes and ruin everybody's fun at all costs, then nothing can stop the game from dying.

If a player can't notice that he is going to bring the game apart, then yes, it is the system's fault.


Do you really have the time to play them all?

No, but I'd like to be able to play what I want to play, which is usually not possible in D&D.


If you were playing D&D, probably the population wouldn't be so scarce in the first place.

No one in the population wants to play D&D except for that one guy who just wants to play Forgotten Realms. Most people play Vampire: the Masquerade or GURPS (or that one cyberpunk game I forget the name of).


Some of us actually like the book keeping, just you like don't being able to organize yourself. This is a matter of personal taste.

Err... what?

Halaster
2009-06-21, 07:24 AM
Like some people have already said, there is no best system, but perhaps there is a "most universal" system. I wouldn't claim to know what that is, but in my experience, GURPS comes close, if you are willing to take on the customization effort (which is significantly less than in other games).
Other games that try to solve all problems with a single ruleset would include Savage Worlds (very combat-oriented ruleset), Fuzion (lot's of dice if I remember right), Tri-stat (very simple ruleset).

So, whenever you look for something off the beaten path, look to GURPS first, unless you seek to keep the rules load very light. In that case, you should consider some free-form approach. I remember a very short rulebook I found on the internet (forgot the name though), in which you just listed what your character could do and added adjectives that translated into die types (awful - d4, average d6 and so on). Then, whenever something happened, the GM would make you roll such a die, compare it to a diffculty and that's it. Occasionally he would let you upgrade a skill by a die type or assign you a new one.
No character points, no levels, no 60-page combat system, no time and effort put into adapting the rules. So, even if your idea doesn't work out all that well, you still haven't lost anything.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-21, 08:03 AM
perhaps there is a "most universal" system. I wouldn't claim to know what that is, but in my experience, GURPS comes close, if you are willing to take on the customization effort (which is significantly less than in other games).
Sure, but that takes tons 'n tons of source books, and it still doesn't handle certain genres very well. For obvious reasons, rules-light systems are much easier to adapt to whatever you need, and thus get much closer to being "most universal". For instance, FUDGE.



So, whenever you look for something off the beaten path, look to GURPS first,
GURPS is hardly "off the beaten path", unless by "the beaten path" you mean only D&D. The three most played RPGs out there are probably D&D, White Wolf, and GURPS, so none of those are "off" anyone's path.

Pronounceable
2009-06-21, 08:48 AM
The best system ever is the homebrew I made for myself. More objectively, the best system is the one you homebrew yourself.

Morty
2009-06-21, 08:52 AM
There is no "best" system. I hesitate to even call one system objectively "better" than another as it's extremely close-minded and elitist. I could list systems I like more than other systems, but they wouldn't be "better", just ones that I like to play. Sure, it's fun to say "lulz ur so stupid to play X instead of Y because Y is bettah" but it's not my kind of fun.

Ichneumon
2009-06-21, 08:58 AM
I've been reading some stuff and think I would give True20 a try, any thoughts on that? It seems to be a quite genre neutral system, although I'm a bit unsure as it is really a lot like d20 system (which I like).

Tengu_temp
2009-06-21, 09:05 AM
Mutants and Masterminds is D20 as well, if you want an open system that bases on this mechanic. Just sayin', because I don't have any experience with True20, other than the hints that suggest these two are pretty similar.

The Rose Dragon
2009-06-21, 09:05 AM
It has a good number of d20's problems removed, though it would be incorrect to say it didn't add any new ones. That said, it works for a greater range of games than d20 Modern and D&D do, and already has a number of good settings out for it (though the support is generally much lower than D&D).


Exalted has an awesome mechanic for what it's supposed to represent, for example, but wouldn't really work for a cyberpunk game.

It can handle the cyber part relatively well, actually, if you extend the tattoo artifact background and refluff it. It even has five-shot revolvers and hand cannons that shoot fiery jets of fire at your enemies. It just defaults to post-apoc heroic games.

erikun
2009-06-21, 09:10 AM
Some of my favorites are the various World of Darkness and Shadowrun games, although I'm sure there are other systems that work just as well.

I'm afraid I've never played (or even seen) True20, so I can't really comment on it.

Tengu_temp
2009-06-21, 09:19 AM
It can handle the cyber part relatively well, actually, if you extend the tattoo artifact background and refluff it. It even has five-shot revolvers and hand cannons that shoot fiery jets of fire at your enemies. It just defaults to post-apoc heroic games.

Yeah, but the danger typical enemies possess should be much higher in a cyberpunk game than it is in Exalted, and you'd have to scrap charms. After all this, you basically have a WoD game with no supers - and combat isn't lethal enough in WoD.

Also, I wouldn't call Exalted a post-apocalyptic game. There have been at least three ground-breaking catastrophies in Creation's history, but the last one of them happened over 800 years ago.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-21, 10:51 AM
What's "best" ?

The ones I've played most are RuneQuest and D&D (Red Box, AD&D 2E, 3.0, 3.5), but the former is mostly about the setting and the latter is actually mechanically awful IMO.

The best mechanics are in The Riddle of Steel (best melee combat simulation ever), Twilight 2013 (best small arms combat simulation ever), and HeroQuest (née Hero Wars; best adaptation to rules of the best setting ever). Trail of Cthulhu has the cleverest mystery investigation mechanic - simple yet elegant. But I also love Unisystem for being so versatile - it's not best at anything, but it's better balanced than TROS and TW2013, able to handle everything from fantasy to modern to scifi, from zombie apocalypse to gothic horror to classic swords & sorcery to ... just about anything else.

But settings are as important, or more important. The best one is Glorantha, hands down - you can not beat the living myth feel, the real sense of being involved in a world that's more fantastic than Norse legends and more epic than Homeros. Then there's the 2020s world of Cyberpunk 2020, which has so much potential for me. Ravenloft and Dark Sun are the very best D&D settings (and done great injustice by the game system they're for).

Edit: Oh, and yes, Mutants & Masterminds (second edition only, the first was so bad I never picked the book up again) is the best superhero game, with smooth and elegant execution; the mechanics are adaptable, but other mechanics adapt more easily.

ghost_warlock
2009-06-21, 11:06 AM
Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.

Personally, myself and the people I game with would say that Alternity is the 'best' rpg-system for the type of game you described. Even though the spaceship rules are "meh" at best and "arrrgh!" at worst. It's the system we've used for StarWars, Fallout, ALIENS vs. Predator, StarGate, and other sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, and zero-to-low-magic games.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-21, 11:52 AM
Personally, myself and the people I game with would say that Alternity is the 'best' rpg-system for the type of game you described.

Really? With its unnecessarily convoluted character generation, clunky resolution mechanic, and unbalanced stats, I am surprised that this can be considered the "best" for anything at all. It's basically a failed experiment by TSR to revise the D&D rules, with some space bits tacked on (just like how Tome of Battle was an experiment on third edition, only that one worked).

wizuriel
2009-06-21, 12:20 PM
anyone tried alpha omega (http://www.alphaomegathegame.com/)?

ghost_warlock
2009-06-21, 12:26 PM
Really? With its unnecessarily convoluted character generation, clunky resolution mechanic, and unbalanced stats, I am surprised that this can be considered the "best" for anything at all. It's basically a failed experiment by TSR to revise the D&D rules, with some space bits tacked on (just like how Tome of Battle was an experiment on third edition, only that one worked).

How is the character generation any more convoluted than any other RPG? You choose a race, determine attributes via point-buy, choose a class, and spend skill points (number to spend based on Int). Different classes and races have different advantages/disadvantages but that's pretty standard.

Resolution mechanic, at heart, was just 1d20 +/- modifiers, roll low. Success was grouped into degrees of success rather than being simply pass/fail.

How are the stats any more unbalanced than any edition of D&D?

Nerd-o-rama
2009-06-21, 12:28 PM
Every game system has its strengths and weaknesses, and each one is more suited to a different style or genre of play.

That said, Mutants & Masterminds.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-21, 12:30 PM
How is the character generation any more convoluted than any other RPG?
Because each skill is worth a different number of points for no reason.



Resolution mechanic, at heart, was just 1d20 +/- modifiers, roll low. Success was grouped into degrees of success rather than being simply pass/fail.
It's the "subtract another die" part that's clunky.


How are the stats any more unbalanced than any edition of D&D?
The huge power boosts you get when certain numbers become divisible by four.

Mando Knight
2009-06-21, 12:38 PM
used-future distopian space opera

Huh. Used Future (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UsedFuture)Dystopian (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Dystopia)Space Opera (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceOpera)? All in the same package? Sounds like a good idea.

Especially if it stars some kind of kid with psionic powers beyond his own imagining, and his main antagonist is this guy in heavy armor that he doesn't know is actually his father...

Sorry, I can't think of a proper (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Roleplaying_Game)game (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Roleplaying_Game)system (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Saga_Edition) to do what you want.
...:smalltongue:

Knaight
2009-06-21, 12:40 PM
Sure, but that takes tons 'n tons of source books, and it still doesn't handle certain genres very well. For obvious reasons, rules-light systems are much easier to adapt to whatever you need, and thus get much closer to being "most universal". For instance, FUDGE.

I second this one, Fudge (The acronym was dropped when the Expanded Edition book was released) is an incredible and very flexible system. However I'm also going to add Fate, PDQ, Risus(Its a bit too rules light for me), Sketch(It is really easy to adapt to everything, but its not a very good system in the first place), QAGS, YAGS, Savage Worlds, and anything else you can find.

Of these I believe Fudge, Fate, PDQ, Risus, Sketch, part of YAGS, and part of Savage Worlds is free. Of the lot of them I prefer Fudge, but unless you can find a "complete" rules set your going to have to sort of build your own, its a tool kit more than a game. I'm a tinkerer, so that drew me towards the system, and now I have enough system mastery that I can easily make a complete rules set with a lot of my own additions in a few minutes.

That said, if your looking for stuff off the internet for Fudge as a complete setting, PM me with it and run it by me. A lot of it is an example of how not to use a tool kit to design a game. Or you can just PM me with setting details and explanations of how you like rule styling and I can whip something up for you.

Lamech
2009-06-21, 12:40 PM
Rolemaster! Err... okay I've played that and DnD. It was fun though.

ghost_warlock
2009-06-21, 12:52 PM
Because each skill is worth a different number of points for no reason.
Some skills are more generally useful or have more better rank benefits than others. Compare brawl to power martial arts; power martial arts is clearly superior and, hence, costs more points to learn. GURPS does basically the same thing with easy/moderate/hard/very hard skills.


It's the "subtract another die" part that's clunky.
I see that as more being one of the unique charms of the system. Rather than a flat +/-2 to a roll, I'd roll +/-d4. Sometimes you get lucky and end up with a smaller penalty than average and sometimes you get a larger penalty.


The huge power boosts you get when certain numbers become divisible by four.
This really isn't any different than suddenly getting synergy bonuses at 5 ranks in a skill or extra skill points per level for an Intelligence boost in 3rd edition. Or extra healing surges and higher bloodied value for certain hit point scores in 4e. Second edition also had these sorts of things, such as when your save values would suddenly get much better every so many levels or your THAC0 changes every few levels.

The power boost was really no bigger than something like a result of 4 being considered an amazing success, in addition to a result of 1, 2, or 3. In a perfect world, this would perhaps mean that your chance to roll an amazing increased by 5%, but most rolls have modifiers so this isn't true in actual play.

Think of it like this: at certain skill values and levels in 3e you suddenly qualify for certain feats or get extra class features - definite boosts in power. Since Alternity didn't have tiered feats, or additional class features for leveling, it has improved good and amazing success scores instead. Where a 3e or 4e D&D character gets a new feat, power, or class feature every few levels, an Alternity character gets a higher chance of rolling an amazing every few skill ranks.

Ichneumon
2009-06-21, 12:55 PM
Huh. Used Future (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UsedFuture)Dystopian (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Dystopia)Space Opera (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceOpera)? All in the same package? Sounds like a good idea.

Especially if it stars some kind of kid with psionic powers beyond his own imagining, and his main antagonist is this guy in heavy armor that he doesn't know is actually his father...

Sorry, I can't think of a proper (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Roleplaying_Game)game (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Roleplaying_Game)system (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Saga_Edition) to do what you want.
...:smalltongue:

You know, that makes my idea for my campaign sound a lot less original, yet conveniently already taken by a large rpg-system creating franchise.

valadil
2009-06-21, 03:45 PM
I don't think there is a best. Even if there was I wouldn't play it all the time. I like learning new things. D&D 3.5 is probably my favorite at the moment, but I'd happily play something straight up inferior if we got to rediscover the system instead of knowing everything.

Calinero
2009-06-21, 04:02 PM
I don't think there is a best.

Allow me to correct you. There is a best. It is known as FATAL.

In all seriousness, though, what system works best for you depends on a lot of things. The style of your players, the style of your DM'ing, what kind of setting you feel like using, and what format of game everyone is in the mood for. If you feel like a suspenseful mystery, Call of Cthulhu would be a good choice, but there are times in virtually everyone's life when some hacking and slashing is in order. For that, D&D might be the way to go. My advice would be to become familiar with a lot of systems, if you can afford it. That way, you always have options to fall back on depending on your mood. A few I would recommend:

Call of Cthulhu, for horror games/mysteries.
D&D 4e or 3.5 for the typical fantasy adventuring experience
Harnmaster for a bit more realism
Aces and Eights for a unique combat system and some good old Western fun
All Flesh Must Be Eaten for zombie survival

fusilier
2009-06-23, 03:37 PM
Well the game would be sort of a mix between low and high power, combat would be semi-frequent, but only in the form of ranged laser gun fights and the occasional grapple. It would contain elements like psionics and such the level of realism would be sort of limited and I don't intend to include much comedy in the actual story.

Based on this description I would say gurps. Gurps, however, lacks the massive character development of D&D (I haven't actually played D20 modern, and only played SWSE once, briefly).

I've heard some people call gurps rules-light. However, the thing about gurps is that you can't use all the rules. This means you need to spend some time reading the rules finding the bits you want to use. Laser guns, psionics, and rules for grappling should all be there. You can also get started using GURPS-lite to see if you would like the system (it's free).

I find it good for gritty realistic campaigns, but others have had luck with fantasy settings.

Satyr
2009-06-23, 04:02 PM
Gurps is pretty much the base line of roleplaying games. Not because it is that good (it is a pretty descent system, though) but because it is so versatile. As a rule off thumb, if you have a system for a specific ambiente or setting and it does not work as well as a potential Gurps conversion, this games is just bad.
That said, I don't think that Gurps is the system to end all systems- it is better than many others, but ut greaterst strengths is versatility and adaptability, not necessarily ease of play. i'm fine with this - but there are more enough people who prefer a more pre-chewed game. Gurps pretty much leaves you alone with a nigh limmitless number of options and possibilities, and leaves up to you to find the ones you want to use.

The best price performance ratio RPG is Witchraft (http://www.edenstudios.net/witchcraft/WitchcraftCorebook.zip). The game is very good -the Unisystem rules it uses are pretty much a synthesis of D20 and Gurps - and it's free.

BillyJimBoBob
2009-06-23, 04:07 PM
Hi,

I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?

Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.None is best.
Alternatively: The best one is the one you can find a group of decent people to sit around a table and play it with.
And finally: If you worry more about the fun and the roleplay than the mechanics, any RPG is fine.

For me, setting matters a lot after the "fun and role play" is taken care of. I vastly prefer a low-mid fantasy RPG. 4e works for that, but so do several other systems, none of which I have played in years, and a couple I'd prefer not to. GURPS fantasy (GURPS anything, really) is a fine system, until there is a combat. And then there are so many dice rolled to resolve a single attack action, which typically involves dice rolled by both attacker and defender, that I wouldn't play it again.

I don't care a lot for modern or future setting RPGs, so Fringeworthy and Traveller and Star Wars are out for me. Horror doesn't do it for me, so Call of Cthulu isn't for me. But I don't mind a setting that supports an occasional horror themed plot line, such as TORG. If you're just looking to have a lot of laughs you can't go wrong with Ghostbusters or Paranoia.

kc0bbq
2009-06-23, 04:21 PM
TravellerI think dying in character creation, or not having any say in your character other than vague initial seeds have a lot to do with Traveller being less than good at times. A few of GDW's games suffer from this. Character generation is a crapshoot, nothing more.

random11
2009-06-23, 04:23 PM
Personally, after playing D&D and GURPS, and reading the rules for many other RPG games (I have a collection), I prefer GURPS.

GURPS is universal, but I usually play fantasy campaigns, so I don't use that advantage much.
What I do like about it, is the fact that you can easily customize house rules for practically everything. The downside of this advantage is that it requires some effort for the GM, but the ones who enjoy it like me will not see this as a disadvantage.

GURPS is also a lot more realistic, which means that characters can die more easily if the players rely only on their stats.

I don't think it's a lot more complex than D&D, but it might be because I'm more used to GURPS while my memories of D&D are only for the previous editions.

fusilier
2009-06-23, 05:03 PM
Gurps is certainly not the end-all, be-all of rpg's. I didn't mean to imply that. Although sometimes it feels like some people think the D20 system is. There are other space systems that I have liked, but they have fallen out of favor. I used to play the WEG's Star Wars (which may now be the D6-system). Which I felt gave a good cinematic feel.

Gurps is well supported and easy to find. I personally have enjoyed sci-fi games run in Gurps. As a "toolkit" system, it's generally good for building a world from the ground up, and has tons of support so you don't have to make everything yourself. Gurps also provides a free light version, so you can take a look at the most basic rules, and decide if you like it, without having to buy or borrow books.

It's only a suggestion, I'm sure there are some other nice systems out there, that would agree with you (as GM), and your setting.

Raum
2009-06-23, 05:33 PM
I would like to know what you think is the best rpg-system. Is it True20, D20, maybe Gurps. What do you think are the advantages?Best for what? There are far too many variables to say X is the best with any real meaning. It'd be like asking 'what's the best movie'! The biggest single variable is probably individual taste, but there is far more involved than that when choosing a game based on merit.


Personally, I'm searching for a good system to use in a play-by-post used-future distopian space opera kind of game. Still haven't decided what to use.I'd consider a mechanics light game for play by post - might help you avoid getting bogged down. But it's really going to depend on what you want to accomplish with the system.

If you are interested in light mechanics systems I'd suggest looking at Wushu, Over the Edge, or similar systems. For a moderate amount of mechanics you might consider Savage Worlds, Cinematic Unisystem, True 20, Fudge, Cortex, One Role Engine, early versions of D&D, etc... For extensive to complex mechanics look at later versions of D&D, Shadowrun, Fate, Rolemaster, GURPS, Harnmaster, Talislanta, or even Burning Wheel. But those are just loose classifications of system mechanics without considering what you want to accomplish with said system. Each system will do differing things well...or poorly.

Another question for you to consider - do you want setting with the system or will you be building your own / getting one from another source?


I've been reading some stuff and think I would give True20 a try, any thoughts on that? It seems to be a quite genre neutral system, although I'm a bit unsure as it is really a lot like d20 system (which I like).True 20 has many of the advantages (and disadvantages) of D&D in a somewhat smaller package. It has a moderate amount of mechanics, magic is still powerful (perhaps more powerful than D&D), and it keeps some of the mechanics - levels, hit rolls, saves, etc. It does away with hit points in favor of a damage save.

Cybren
2009-06-23, 07:02 PM
All this GURPS love brings tears to my eyes. That said, I have also run a (short) space opera game with GURPS. It worked very well, too.

Duff
2009-06-25, 01:17 AM
Have a good look at feng shui. It's fast playing, easy to run, and the cinamatic style would (IMO) suit space opera. You could re-fluff as much as you needed to (I'd just add space ships that move at the speed of plot, powered by phlobotonim drives and are more or less as big as you need them to be). You may feel the need to re jig the pre-genned characters or add new ones, you would certinly want to decide which if any bits you DON'T want - magic, monsters, the icky scifi nasty stuff from the future who's name I've forgotten

Halaster
2009-06-25, 02:06 AM
I think dying in character creation, or not having any say in your character other than vague initial seeds have a lot to do with Traveller being less than good at times. A few of GDW's games suffer from this. Character generation is a crapshoot, nothing more.

That's one of the great things about Traveller. I think players of modern RPGs are way too fussy about their characters. It's all about the right combos and whatnot, leading to a lot of bad characters - not rules-wise, but play-wise. Getting handed a character who is not at all what you imagined is a wonderful challenge for your roleplaying skills.
The above is meant as an exercise in why there is no best game system (although I'm serious about loving it; Warhammer too: roll up your class, from rat-catcher to nobleman). I play T4 though, which has no death in character creation.

As for rules-light systems being more universal, no way. Many groups, like most I play in, like their rulebooks a little heavier, because rules-light often enough means that not too many things are covered by the rules, leaving a lot of room for dispute. Not all groups handle dispute well. So actually, a rules-heavy system is more universal, as you can still toss out rules you don't like, which is easier than coming up with universally accepted rules made up completely by the group or GM. GURPS actually demonstrates that quite well. I usually play with a blend of simple combat system and advanced combat system rules that are reasonably fast and realistic enough for my usual games (early modern history settings). Same goes for most other rules, you can use the bare bones if you want to, but you don't have to.

That's another reason why I would not advise anyone to try D20 as a universal system (or anything it wasn't specifically made for). It's rules are tied in very tightly. Drop anything from the combat system and you're sure to reap protest from your players, because their feats/spells/race abilities/class abilities now suck. That's not just rules-heavy, it's constricting.

TheThan
2009-06-25, 02:13 AM
Easy answer:
The one you enjoy playing the most.

Hard answer:
The one you enjoy playing the most.

Satyr
2009-06-25, 02:26 AM
Generally speaking, games which do a job to create a realistic atmosphere are far superior to games who start with a completely larger than life premise from the very beginning. It is usually not a problem at all to create powerful, larger than life heroes in a realistic system (if only through sheer overkill), but vice versa, it doesn't work nearly as well.

Fishy
2009-06-25, 02:26 AM
Setting is unrelated to system.

This is just trivially not true.

Imagine a system that had detailed and well-explained rules for starships, spaceports, alien species, alien cultures, combat in zero-gravity, the effects of hard vacuum and FTL drives and the resulting time travel paradoxes.

Using this system, play a game set in 1980's California where the PCs are all entered in a surfing competition.

There is no 'best system.' You have to decide what you want the scope and feel of your game to be like, and then find the system that best represents that. Gurps simulates realistic combat, Fudge simulates cinematic combat, Continuum simulates time-travel and Nobilis simulates godlike power.

Rasilak
2009-06-25, 06:41 AM
I'd recommend using an universal system (because you then don't have to learn a new ruleset when you want to play anything else). Also, Settings that are tailored to a certain world tend to have weaknesses when played in another world, and usually need heavy adaptation because fluff and crunch tend to be mixed a lot.
Having said that, I'd recommend GURPS if you like realistic gameplay and precise rules for everything, or Wushu (http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/WushuOpenRules) if you want cinematic gameplay and minimalistic rules.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-25, 06:58 AM
Imagine a system that had detailed and well-explained rules for starships, spaceports, alien species, alien cultures, combat in zero-gravity, the effects of hard vacuum and FTL drives and the resulting time travel paradoxes.
Well done, you've just described a setting, thus defying your point.

Fishy
2009-06-25, 07:09 AM
Well done, you've just described a setting, thus defying your point.

Okay, what's a system, if not a list of rules for how to do things and explanations of what they're supposed to be simulations of?

Halaster
2009-06-25, 08:18 AM
Many systems have rules for all sorts of things, which doesn't mean you have to use them. As long as the system covers human character creation and basic athletics rules, your 1980s surfers should be right at home.
So whether these rules matter is up to the setting. For setting-based systems that often leads to genre-stereotyping, but it doesn't have to. And systems like White Wolfs d10 stuff, originally made for Vampires in the 1990s as easily handles Psions in 2120, daring Adventurers in 1925 and a number of other stuff (isn't Exalted based on this, too?). They just tack on setting-specifics as they need them, none of it affects the system as such.

Project_Mayhem
2009-06-25, 09:56 AM
First of many shameless plugs for Abyss 1920, A post WW1, post apocalyptic, dieselpunk horror game that is currently in the development process as of now. Watch this space ...

DeathQuaker
2009-06-25, 04:11 PM
If you can find the rules and you want to work in Psionics to your dystopic future space opera, look for Aeon/Trinity (you'll probably find it under "Trinity" except for really old copies of the first print). I'd recommend the original (Storyteller System, similar to what they use for World of Darkness) but there were d20 rules for it as well. It IS in fact a used world dystopic future space opera, but it focuses, both mechanics and fluffwise, on the psionically powered agents of that world, so if you're not interested in that, it probably wouldn't be worth it. If you are, though, it may well be exactly what you're looking for.

If it isn't what you're looking for, it depends on what you like and what you're comfortable with. Sounds like you know mostly d20, so I would go with (same as what others mentioned)...

- D20 Modern/Future -- if you like the comfort of a class based system and want a rulebook that provides great guidelines for the scenarios you will want to run. Note that I find to build a concept you want as you want it, you need to build characters with at least several levels, since many key sci-fi/action schticks are tied to class abilities. I would use this over Star Wars since many concepts and classes are similar, and the differences are largely specific to Star Wars mythology (I do realize SE has some mechanics improvements). Sure, you could run a generic campaign using Star Wars rules, but I'd rather run a generic campaign using the ruleset intended for that purpose.

- Mutants and Masterminds -- if you like the flexibility of a point-buy based system and the ability to build pretty much everything you can imagine if you're creative enough. The rulebook itself is superheroes focused so you will have to do some fudging to figure out how it will work with your world concept, but you can do that quite easily. I'm sure there's somekind of starship supplement that can help. If you want middle-power and mostly normal humans, I'd play starting around Power Level 8.

Otherwise just go with what suits your play style and/or otherwise what you think you can learn quickly. Savage Worlds, Champions....

Deepblue706
2009-06-25, 07:13 PM
What's all this "Eh it depends on what you're looking for" garbage? There are only two kinds of things: the Good kind, and the Bad kind. People either love or hate, befriend or battle.

Anyway, I like GURPS because it's a Generic and Universal Role-Playing System. With GURPS, I can play whatever I want to. I'm a fan of cost efficiency. I'm also not a fan of learning different systems for different genres. And, I'm indifferent to rules-heavy games, as long as they provide me with freedom (which I feel GURPS does).