"This Whole Thing Was a Huge Waste of Time"

[Defiant]

Sorry, but I wasn't around here when Comic 656 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html) came out. But could someone please explain to me exactly how this works out?

Does V have to die on the mortal plane? Why can't they collect the soul? I'm not sure I understand the entire thing, not just their non-action on the mortal plane.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Sorry, but I wasn't around here when Comic 656 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html) came out. But could someone please explain to me exactly how this works out?

Does V have to die on the mortal plane? Why can't they collect the soul? I'm not sure I understand the entire thing, not just their non-action on the mortal plane.
The contract was never for V's soul, it was for his services in the mortal realm. The archfiends aren't permitted to mettle in the mortal realm directly. They're only allowed to act through appropriate agents.

If V dies, then regardless of where his soul actually ends up, they can't use V to influence the mortal realm.

[Defiant]

The contract was never for V's soul, it was for his services in the mortal realm. The archfiends aren't permitted to mettle in the mortal realm directly. They're only allowed to act through appropriate agents.

If V dies, then regardless of where his soul actually ends up, they can't use V to influence the mortal realm.

Thanks, that makes more sense.

But then they'd still be technically able to cash in on the deal if V dies and then gets resurrected later, yes?

[Shadic]

The chances of V being resurrected while dead in enemy territory are near-nothing.

Remember the issue with Roy?

Not to mention in Start of Darkness, Xykon sound-binds those he kills that he finds important enough, preventing any chance of a resurrection. He very well could do so to V considering how irritated he was.

[Fri]

the deal is just a bonus/distraction. V will only need to serve a couple of hours in the lower realms anyway, at most.

What they said to V was, they wanted a prove that their cooperation business can succeed.

But even that is not their real reason, in my opinion. What they actually want is to use V to influence things in mortal realm, at least spying on her and get more information on the gates.

[Defiant]

Read the latest comic. I will say no more to you (lest it spoil).


the deal is just a bonus/distraction. V will only need to serve a couple of hours in the lower realms anyway, at most.

What they said to V was, they wanted a prove that their cooperation business can succeed.

But even that is not their real reason, in my opinion. What they actually want is to use V to influence things in mortal realm, at least spying on her and get more information on the gates.

Well, if this is true, then they can get V on the mortal plane for about an hour. They can cash in whenever she has access to the gate, and then do who knows what with that opportunity.

[Snake-Aes]

The IFCC mentioned a strip or two before that their real motivations already: They knew through Sabine about the gates, and investigated. They know V is in close contact with the gates as often as one can get, and want to use V the next time she is near one.

[Jagos]

the deal is just a bonus/distraction. V will only need to serve a couple of hours in the lower realms anyway, at most.

What they said to V was, they wanted a prove that their cooperation business can succeed.

But even that is not their real reason, in my opinion. What they actually want is to use V to influence things in mortal realm, at least spying on her and get more information on the gates.

From what I gather, the contract will only work for maybe 45 minutes tops per plain. He hasn't had the soul splice long before he lost it to Xykon.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Yes. V *might* get resurrected. But do you honestly think Xykon is going to make that easy?

[Ricardo]

the deal is just a bonus/distraction. V will only need to serve a couple of hours in the lower realms anyway, at most.Time according to which plane?

[David Argall]

Time according to which plane?

There has been no use of shifting time speed in the story so far, and there likely won't be, so the point is likely pretty much academic. However local time is almost certainly meant. The fiends will get somewhat less than one hour of mortal world time to carry out whatever plot they have in mind or can dream up [and at this point, they may well not have much in the way of firm plans.]

[Optimystik]

There has been no use of shifting time speed in the story so far, and there likely won't be, so the point is likely pretty much academic.

When considering other planes, it could definitely be a factor. A phenomenon like Roy's "dire half-dragon version" of losing track of time could happen to V if the fiends take some or all of their time while he is in their plane.

[Snake-Aes]

When considering other planes, it could definitely be a factor. A phenomenon like Roy's "dire half-dragon version" of losing track of time could happen to V if the fiends take some or all of their time while he is in their plane.

How much indication of it do we have? Their plans for V are linked to the gates, which are all in Material.

[Boogastreehouse]

Time according to which plane?

Sara: "No, nothing so 'sci-fi' as all that."

Horace: "This is still a fantasy story."

(See comic #499)

In other words, I doubt Rich will use that idea.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

When considering other planes, it could definitely be a factor. A phenomenon like Roy's "dire half-dragon version" of losing track of time could happen to V if the fiends take some or all of their time while he is in their plane.
An hour is an hour regardless of one's perceptions of it. Even if an hour would feel like only 20 minutes to V, the hour is still up after… well, after an hour. Losing track of time wouldn't factor in here, unless the fiends can outright break their contract.

[Random832]

Um, the SRD actually has rules for time to flow differently on different planes. It doesn't include the full cosmology, but it does list the Astral plane as timeless.

[Snake-Aes]

I consider amazing everyone's capability of completely ignoring the thread's original purpose and the fact that it's been debunked by the comic in as clear a way as it's possible. Rock on!

[Defiant]

Yes. V *might* get resurrected. But do you honestly think Xykon is going to make that easy?

Please read the newest comics before continuing here. I don't want to give away anything, ensuring maximum comic enjoyment. :smallsmile:

[TheCoolThatguy]

Heh

Who wants to bet that the Three Fiend's get Xykon's phylactery?

Think about it. They need imps to do foot work in the mortal world. Qarr can transport up to fifty pounds of unliving matter by himself, and that thing is a whole lot less than that.

[Defiant]

Heh

Who wants to bet that the Three Fiend's get Xykon's phylactery?

Think about it. They need imps to do foot work in the mortal world. Qarr can transport up to fifty pounds of unliving matter by himself, and that thing is a whole lot less than that.

The entire problem of Xykon finding the phylactery applies to everyone: the abjurations on the bling-bling are so extensive that nobody would be able to find it other than searching by hand.

[theinsulabot]

When considering other planes, it could definitely be a factor. A phenomenon like Roy's "dire half-dragon version" of losing track of time could happen to V if the fiends take some or all of their time while he is in their plane.

that wasnt actually time going quicker or slower, it was just the perception because roy was having such a good time. so, while, it will likely SEEM lime more to V when he is undergoing is 50 minutes to an hour, ish, thats still how long it is going to be in real time

[TheCoolThatguy]

The entire problem of Xykon finding the phylactery applies to everyone: the abjurations on the bling-bling are so extensive that nobody would be able to find it other than searching by hand.

Except that they saw it fall and could easily track it.

Plus, remember, the abjurations are simply the best that Xykon and Red Cloak know. The three Fiends are from down under. Epic Inside, anyone? ;)

[theinsulabot]

Except that they saw it fall and could easily track it.

Plus, remember, the abjurations are simply the best that Xykon and Red Cloak know. The three Fiends are from down under. Epic Inside, anyone? ;)

yes but xykon rocks his own brand of epic whoop ass. conjuring and scrying don't really seem like his biggest strength, but you dont need finesse when you have ungodly amounts of power. hell i am not sure that now, given that he appears to have taken another level in bad ass recently, that he couldn't scry right through cloister now if he felt the need as long as he had an appropriate frame of reference

[TheCoolThatguy]

yes but xykon rocks his own brand of epic whoop ass. conjuring and scrying don't really seem like his biggest strength, but you dont need finesse when you have ungodly amounts of power. hell i am not sure that now, given that he appears to have taken another level in bad ass recently, that he couldn't scry right through cloister now if he felt the need as long as he had an appropriate frame of reference

That didn't stop Eugene from casually spying on the city, even when cloister had been in full effect for weeks.

As powerful as Xykon is, there are still bigger dogs, hence why he can't take the world over by force. And he hasn't been leveling up in a long time, so there's no reason to think that the Feinds can't do the exact same thing as those above.

It's not like they had any TV reception issues when they were watching V ;)

[theinsulabot]

That didn't stop Eugene from casually spying on the city, even when cloister had been in full effect for weeks.

As powerful as Xykon is, there are still bigger dogs, hence why he can't take the world over by force. And he hasn't been leveling up in a long time, so there's no reason to think that the Feinds can't do the exact same thing as those above.

It's not like they had any TV reception issues when they were watching V ;)


thats kind of where i am going with this. even cloister was beatable if you had enough juice, but the phylactory is much smaller, and theoretically would be easier then to shield. its theoretically possible its so well shielded that NOTHING could scry it, not the celestial plane, not the IFCC, not the massivly powerful epic lich who actually has a connection linking it to his twisted soul, nothing

[Boaromir]

thats kind of where i am going with this. even cloister was beatable if you had enough juice, but the phylactory is much smaller, and theoretically would be easier then to shield. its theoretically possible its so well shielded that NOTHING could scry it, not the celestial plane, not the IFCC, not the massivly powerful epic lich who actually has a connection linking it to his twisted soul, nothing



Roy's Archon said in 510 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0510.html)'If she is alive and on the mortal plane, we should be able to see her.' This sort of lends to the idea that the celestial plane, probably also along with other planes of the afterlife trump all magic blocking like this. However, Xykon's phylactery is also not a living person, and I'm not sure if there's scrying spells out there that can scry on objects.