Leadership Handbook?

[shadow_archmagi]

My google-fu has failed me. The idea of having an extra character seems like it merits a lot of thought and a handbook seems justified, but I simply can't find one.

Forum, any helpful insights on being a leader?

[Mando Knight]

1.) Jack your Charisma as high up as possible. There are three core classes that make sense for this: Sorcerer, Bard, and Paladin.

2.) Make your Cohort cover whichever part of combat you don't: for Sorcerers and Bards, a big beefy guy is recommended. Look into a Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Barbarian, or (if you are LG) a Paladin. If you're a Paladin, get a Wizard or Cleric (cannot get a Druid). Possibly a Sorcerer if you need to have someone sling a huge number of offensive spells rather than prepare the exact spell needed in advance.

3.) Make sure you're the one optimizing your second character. Not your DM. :smalltongue: If you need help with this, there are plenty of other Optimization Handbooks out there.

[arkol]

And remember to give your cohorts Leadeship too. Who needs a party anyway? :smallamused:

[Eldariel]

There's really little point in writing a handbook for Leadership seeing that the appropriate builds depend on what exactly you want and all of those classes have their own Handbooks. The only special mention are classes that can gain extra benefit from having mooks around, such as Red Wizard of Thay (or anything with Circle Magic in general) and such.

Other than that, pick a strong support character (Artificer is always a strong call, Bard is always good, crafters in general are solid and it should almost invariably be a spellcaster (get a wildshaping Druid to act as your mount!) or a non-standard creature with some ability you want, since a warrior-type 2 HD behind just won't cut it) and get "the best one around". If there are some special needs for it, such as Tattoo Focus for a Red Wizard, attract one with those.

[Myrmex]

1.) Jack your Charisma as high up as possible. There are three core classes that make sense for this: Sorcerer, Bard, and Paladin.

Charisma, while important, isn't THAT important. As long as you are non-evil, you should have level+4 to your leadership score (special power, fairness & generosity, great renown). Keep charisma between 10 and 14 for the purposes of attracting a cohort. If you DO happen to be a paladin, you will need the charisma, since your special mount gives you a -2 penalty. You should probably be switching your familiars out for alternate class features, but then, as a sorc with 18+ charisma, a familiar won't really matter.


2.) Make your Cohort cover whichever part of combat you don't: for Sorcerers and Bards, a big beefy guy is recommended. Look into a Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Barbarian, or (if you are LG) a Paladin. If you're a Paladin, get a Wizard or Cleric (cannot get a Druid). Possibly a Sorcerer if you need to have someone sling a huge number of offensive spells rather than prepare the exact spell needed in advance.

I would get a cohort to complement me, and the party. If you are a mounted character, I would make your cohort your mount. A celestial magebred swordsage warpony? Yes, please! If you are an arcane caster or primary manifester, I would recommend a rogue as your cohort. Don't bother with a fighter or barbarian, since they are useless at your level, and even more so two levels below you. A rogue is good for two reasons- skills, which, other than knowledge, you won't have, and the precision damage it gets vs. enemies you incapacitate.

Getting a caster cohort even if you are a caster yourself will never hurt. They can be a reservoir of buffs and utility spells that don't have saves. There are some feats and prestige classes oriented towards co-operative casting, such as mage of the arcane order and red wizard of thay. There are several psionic powers that get better with more psions participating, and with spells that allow you to transfer power points, your cohort could essentially be a battery for you. Two wilders manifesting Bestow Power while wildsurging can totally refill each other's power point reserves.

If you are not a caster, I would always recommend a caster cohort that specializes in buffing you and the party. Everyone loves flying around hasted.

An artificer cohort is very helpful for obvious reasons- free magic items for everyone.


3.) Make sure you're the one optimizing your second character. Not your DM. :smalltongue: If you need help with this, there are plenty of other Optimization Handbooks out there.

I recommend against this. Leadership is a powerful feat, and if you optimize your second character too powerfully, you can easily smash a campaign. At the very least, a second character will dramatically slow down combat. As with anything else, you should be working with your DM.

[Gralamin]

I Vastly Prefer Thrallherd. Not Only do you get two Cohorts, but you also get ultimated Sacrifices followers.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Charisma, while important, isn't THAT important. As long as you are non-evil, you should have level+4 to your leadership score (special power, fairness & generosity, great renown)

Very few of my characters have had what I would describe as "special power", and while any good character is likely to be quite fair, qualifying for the "generosity" part is going to cut heavily into your wealth. So level+1, and -2 for each cohort death.

I'd still optimize the cohort you get, personally. Make it a one-trick pony for ease of DM use, but have it be very good at that.

[Gralamin]

Very few of my characters have had what I would describe as "special power", and while any good character is likely to be quite fair, qualifying for the "generosity" part is going to cut heavily into your wealth. So level+1, and -2 for each cohort death.

I'd still optimize the cohort you get, personally. Make it a one-trick pony for ease of DM use, but have it be very good at that.

Easy: Pay Bards to sing of your Special Power and your Generosity. You do not need the traits, you just need a reputation of having them, after all.

[Eldariel]

Easy: Pay Bards to sing of your Special Power and your Generosity. You do not need the traits, you just need a reputation of having them, after all.

Worth noting that casting spells or having high ranks in any skill constitutes a special power. Or being a ****ing god with a sword.

[Myrmex]

Very few of my characters have had what I would describe as "special power",

Anything with casting puts you in like 2% of the world, as is anything over level 5.


and while any good character is likely to be quite fair, qualifying for the "generosity" part is going to cut heavily into your wealth.

It's about reputation. Most PCs are generous without realizing it, because keeping track of every copper and silver piece is such a big hassle, they just throw gold at every peasant and inn keeper.


I'd still optimize the cohort you get, personally. Make it a one-trick pony for ease of DM use, but have it be very good at that.

I'd make it good, but I wouldn't make it great, unless it's a small party and you need the niche filled. Otherwise, you risk stepping on other the other PCs' toes. Optimizing someone that gives everyone partywide benefits always goes over well.

[aivanther]

I second Thrall Herd if you want leadership going well. Plus there's the fun of dominating demons and beholders and adding them to your roster for ML/day.

I actually did the above, with my telepath/thrallherd having a Barbarian/Frenzied Beserker and a Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor (he was basically a walking pack of turn undead and HEAL). Then I dominated a Vrock, and then a Beholder. The DM worked hard to kill my minions, and eventually did get the Vrock. Ah that was a fun time.

[PrismaticPIA]

Max Turnage.

[Coidzor]

10 levels is a pretty big investment for a 2nd 13th(I think I read that right as a minimum of 15th level to reach that point) thrall to go with a 14th level one...

Is that really worth it for -2 manifester levels?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

There is 2 beatsticks that're worth it. Crusaders and Knights. The party will love having meatshields around who keep enemies from attacking them.

[Gaiyamato]

I have been trying to work out a build that includes thrallherd and gani levels in classes that enchance leadership or give free cohorts for a while.

Check out Heroes of Battle and Sword and Fist. Both books have some cool classes.
Also the Ledgendary Captain in Stormwrack gives some good leadership bonuses.

There is a feat, the name always escapes me, which adds your STR to your leadership score (as well as CHA). Orc warlord lets you virtually duoble the number of followers and then there is the Extra Followers feat which... doubles your followers. It isn't hard to have a level 9 Orc Warlord with his own town and castle and about 1000 troops to his name.

Check out Stronghold Builders Guide Book for the Landlord feat for extra goodness (gives you leadership bonuses and some juicy extra cash for making towns, which provide income for your armies and castle).

Beef all that up with thrall herd and your set.

I made one character with 6 Cohorts and about 600 troops for free by level 12. Still trying to improve on that.
I took 5 Wizards and 1 Cleric. Then all the level 1 troops as warriors and the rest as clerics. Sorts out all sorts of things that many powerful spellcasters. :P

Only the Orc Warlord seems to be able to beat that, but he has less Cohorts (2 of them was all I could reliably get).

Mind you this tactic completely sacrifices your own power in exchange for followers.

[aivanther]

Is that really worth it for -2 manifester levels?

For a free extra set of hands and/or spells? Quite possibly yes, and since in my above mentioned campaign we were up to our eyeballs in undead, massive amounts of anti-undead action was well worth it, and the maximized, empowered heals were appreciated as well. Later in the campaign I wished I had a wizard or sorcerer instead of the barbarian, but couldn't let him die for RP reasons to be replaced (basically my mentally handicapped half-orc barbarian looked at me like a father).

It really all depends, but imagine at level 15 having a: Manifester: ML 13, a Wizard: CL 14, and a Clear: CL 13...yeah, you're a part unto your own. Plus those bonuses to Psionic Dominate, especially lowered manifester cost, can REALLY provide a nice assortment of assets...like half the baddies we came up against.

It was amazing to see how the undead increased after I got a Vrock and Beholder running around with me on top of my Barbarian/FB and Cleric/Radiant Servant. Think the DM was sending me a message about my active recruitment trend...