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View Full Version : Crazy Fun Idea: Wizard Rainbow Savant Archer Assassin



Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-21, 10:31 PM
Note: This character idea uses the "2 natural 20s in a row = Instadeath" variant in the DMG. My group accepts this as a true rule...is it commonly used?

Disclamer: I do not remember exactly how the spell Surge of Fortune works. This is all IIRC...

Build: We start by taking a simple sorcerer, taking Sanctum spell at 3rd level. After 5th level, he continues into the Rainbow Savant Prestige class. This begins working at 15th level.

Morning Buffs: Contingency [Sanctum Surge of Fortune), set to activate whenever I roll a 20 for an attack roll.

Combat: The sorcerer takes out his longbow and, after casting Surge of Fortune, shoots his longbow at the enemy. He rolls a natural 20 thanks to SoF, and does it again for his conformation thanks to Contingent SoF. If you are feeling really mean, use Celerity then, with a True Strike. The final attack roll will have an additional +20 to hit. Assuming you do hit, the monster will be instantly slain.

Interesting Facts: You can stand at max longbow range and still do this...the final attack will have a -20 to hit, but that is negated with True Strike.
You can (instead of using another SoF) simply attack normally until you roll a natural 20. Especially if your companions dont know your build, this can be comical to watch:
*pink* *pink* *pink* (Oh no, not another lame archer...) *pink* *pink* (Hurry up, man...) KABOOM!!!

How does it look? What are the things that I screwed up with?

Blackjackg
2009-06-21, 10:47 PM
Note: This character idea uses the "2 natural 20s in a row = Instadeath" variant in the DMG. My group accepts this as a true rule...is it commonly used?

No, not really. I've heard of some people using a 3 natural 20s = instadeath, but even that's uncommon.


Morning Buffs: Contingency [Sanctum Surge of Fortune), set to activate whenever I roll a 20 for an attack roll.

You'd have a hard time making that work in-character. Additionally, don't contingent spells cost XP? That'd take a solid bite out of you after a while.


Combat: The sorcerer takes out his longbow and, after casting Surge of Fortune, shoots his longbow at the enemy. He rolls a natural 20 thanks to SoF, and does it again for his conformation thanks to Contingent SoF. If you are feeling really mean, use Celerity then, with a True Strike. The final attack roll will have an additional +20 to hit. Assuming you do hit, the monster will be instantly slain.

I'm having a hard time understanding this, and it's possible that's because I'm not familiar with the spells Surge of Fortune or Celerity. But it seems like you figure if you get enough +'s on your attack, it'll come out to be a natural 20. If I'm reading that correctly... umm... doesn't work that way. The '20' face of the die actually has to turn up twice: once on the attack and once on the confirm. Otherwise, you're playing with some wacky-broken rules.

EDIT: Found Surge of Fortune (it's in Complete Champion, by the way). So I guess it can give you a "natural" 20. I do note, however, that it does not include Critical Hit Confirmation Roll among the types of rolls that it can affect.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-21, 10:50 PM
The instant death rules are not commonly used, and, even when they are, it normally requires an additional confirmation roll like any normal critical.

That said, if I were a DM and a situation like this came up, I'd quickly house-rule a "must be a natural 20" into the game...in fact, such a rule might already be mentioned in the DMG when it mentions this option. You need to bear in mind that the suggestion was made before spells like Surge of Fortune existed, and that the rules must adapt to new additions to the games. I wouldn't try doing this, as it's an obvious exploitation of an optional houserule that was never officially updated to compensate for such spells.

Animefunkmaster
2009-06-21, 10:51 PM
spell index cannot find 'surge of fortune'.

Edit: Update: Rune Delver's Fortune, Fortunate Fate, and Curse of Ill Fortune do not seem to be the spells your looking for.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-21, 11:00 PM
No, not really. I've heard of some people using a 3 natural 20s = instadeath, but even that's uncommon.

I wasnt very clear. It is the variant where if you critical with a 20 and then roll a natural 20 on the conformation, if you hit again, it kills the person. It is supposed to represent an extremely lucky shot.


Additionally, don't contingent spells cost XP? That'd take a solid bite out of you after a while.

Nope (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm).


I'm having a hard time understanding this, and it's possible that's because I'm not familiar with the spells Surge of Fortune or Celerity. But it seems like you figure if you get enough +'s on your attack, it'll come out to be a natural 20. If I'm reading that correctly... umm... doesn't work that way. The '20' face of the die actually has to turn up twice: once on the attack and once on the confirm. Otherwise, you're playing with some wacky-broken rules.

No no no no no. Surge of Fortune makes you roll a natural 20 on your next d20 roll. Celerity lets you take a standard action as an immediate action, in excange for being dazed next turn.

Djinn: ...What? This is a natural 20, isnt it? Do I have the spell description totally wrong?

Animefunkmaster: SoF is from Complete Champion, IIRC.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2009-06-21, 11:09 PM
Djinn: ...What? This is a natural 20, isnt it? Do I have the spell description totally wrong?

What I meant was this: the houserule didn't allow for effects like this. Thus, I would rule that it would require a "natural" 20, with natural in this case being defined as "rolled on the die" to prevent exploits like this, which go against the idea of the houserule, in my mind. If it's a lucky shot killing a foe instantly, I don't want to lessen the impact by allowing a spell to do it for you.

I don't think the game should ever intentionally allow instant, practically guaranteed kills, which this is. The fact that it relies on a houserule printed before the spell in question furthers my thoughts that it shouldn't be allowed to work that way.

That said, by RAW it works. If you really want to exploit this obvious loophole, I suppose I can't stop you.

I can sulk about it though. :smallbiggrin:

Foryn Gilnith
2009-06-21, 11:09 PM
You're building this character to exploit an optional rule. Unless you want your group to reject the mass of 20s being an instant kill, this does not seem like a very solid concept.

Animefunkmaster
2009-06-21, 11:12 PM
Found it, it is indeed in complete champion, don't know why it isn't in the spell index (<.<).

In any event it also says you must roll the confirmation of the critical normally, which is raw enough to not allow you to use surge of fortune on the confirmation roll.

And its Cleric 5 spell.

Edit: Also to cast the spell is a standard, to use this specific effect of getting a d20 roll (specifically, attack, save, skill, ability check, spell penetration) is an immediate action... which also seems to be a wrench in the works.

Edit2: Ah! that's why you need rainbow servant, for access to the cleric 5 spell. So 10 levels of rainbow servant, hmmm.

Edit3: Now I am really confused. Why do you need sanctum spell (besides it being an abusable feat) when you are waiting for level 15 to do this anyway. Is it for the dropped caster level from rainbow servant? Can we assume through items or practiced spellcaster and or items that you have a caster level of 15 at level 15? Its much less cheesy that way... sanctum spell with contingency is more likely to just get dms to ban sanctum spell.

erikun
2009-06-21, 11:13 PM
Dang, and I was hoping for an archer wizard who fired Prismatic Rays from a longbow. Oh well.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-21, 11:23 PM
Found it, it is indeed in complete champion, don't know why it isn't in the spell index (<.<).

In any event it also says you must roll the confirmation of the critical normally, which is raw enough to not allow you to use surge of fortune on the confirmation roll.

And its Cleric 5 spell.

Edit: Also to cast the spell is a standard, to use this specific effect of getting a d20 roll (specifically, attack, save, skill, ability check, spell penetration) is an immediate action... which also seems to be a wrench in the works.

Edit2: Ah! that's why you need rainbow servant, for access to the cleric 5 spell. So 10 levels of rainbow servant, hmmm.

It...kinda works, if you dont listen to what it suggests, which is technically not RAW. Good call though, thanks. And there is no wrench in the works for the Edit...except that I just now realized that Celerity-True Strike doesnt work now. Shoot. It becomes: Hit = Kill, Miss = Critical. Though you could add in [Ranged Deep Impact]...


Erikun: Look no further my good man, than Complete Mage's own Prismatic Bow! Everything you are looking for and more...or of course you could just give your gish 2 levels of Arcane Archer...

Animefunkmaster
2009-06-21, 11:26 PM
Again, you need to "roll the confirmation check normally" if used for an attack roll. So you need another way of getting a nat 20 for the confirmation roll.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-21, 11:28 PM
Erikun: Look no further my good man, than Complete Mage's own Prismatic Bow! Everything you are looking for and more...or of course you could just give your gish 2 levels of Arcane Archer...Or pick something, you know, good. Though I love the idea of using AA to drop spells on enemies that are normally self-only and are actually pretty severe debuffs(the Wu-Jen suicide one, Prismatic Sphere) since those spells have generally have no saves.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-21, 11:33 PM
Again, you need to "roll the confirmation check normally" if used for an attack roll. So you need another way of getting a nat 20 for the confirmation roll.

I think this just means that you dont get the previous fortune again...

I dont know though, you are probably right.

STK: I was just going with what he wanted...Tenser's Transformation on an arcane caster is my personal favorite.

Fizban
2009-06-21, 11:46 PM
I too came expecting Prismatic Bow. Rather lackluster considering that by that level, even a True Strike only gets you back up to average. But having 3 guarenteed shots of insta-death (poison, petrify, and violet splat) is pretty sweet.

I propose we combine the ideas: use a Rainbow Savant with Divine Power (for BAB) and whatever other cleric buffs seem appropriate, True Strike, Arcane Spellsurge (to quicken True Strike every round), and Prismatic Bow. Maybe Heroics for Rapid Shot. With the BAB boost and True Strike together, you should hit with your first arrow, and you can blow the weaker ones on your iterative attacks for kicks.

Quietus
2009-06-22, 12:24 AM
I think this just means that you dont get the previous fortune again...

I dont know though, you are probably right.

STK: I was just going with what he wanted...Tenser's Transformation on an arcane caster is my personal favorite.

Sounds like some people have been taking liberties with Arcane Archers... only *area* spells can be Imbued. Tenser's has a target.

kjones
2009-06-22, 12:39 AM
You're building this character to exploit an optional rule. Unless you want your group to reject the mass of 20s being an instant kill, this does not seem like a very solid concept.

This. It's a bit silly to abuse RAW, when what you're abusing isn't RAW.