3.5: Shadow Sun Ninja

[Fuzzy_Juan]

I am trying to find a rule that says weather or not a shadow sun Ninja can use touch of shadow sun on himself. Specifically can you heal yourself with the positive energy?

The fluff says 'heal an ally', though right under that it says 'touch a creature'. Other spells have target 'creature touched' and it seems to also include yourself if you wish to touch yourself...

Currently our dm is saying it doesn't work that way, though i think it is more for 'balance' than anything else...otherwise the sneak attacking negative touch attack will heal for 40-60 some odd damage all the time.

[quick_comment]

How exactly can you sneak attack yourself?

[SSGoW]

well i can take a knife and hit my liver enstead of cutting my shoulder soooo in dnd you should be able to sneak attack yourself

[Sstoopidtallkid]

SA can't be used to boost healing, whether SAing with neg energy on an undead or SA with pos energy on a mortal. There have been multiple threads on this topic in the past week.

SSN can, however, heal itself with ToSS. That doesn't need to be spelled out, IMHO.

[PinkysBrain]

Oops, got that completely wrong. Yes, you are your own ally of course ... finding where it says this specifically will be hard though, it's too obvious. Writers don't take into account that level of obstinateness.

You could rules lawyer it, find rule/spell/etc where it says ally and point out to the DM where he has allowed it used or has used it himself on the creature/player using it.

Why does your DM have so much trouble with an ability which requires a standard action, a swift action and a target to inflict damage on though?

[Sinfire Titan]

SA can't be used to boost healing, whether SAing with neg energy on an undead or SA with pos energy on a mortal. There have been multiple threads on this topic in the past week.

SSN can, however, heal itself with ToSS. That doesn't need to be spelled out, IMHO.

He means hitting with the Negative energy first (dealing Sneak Attack damage). The extra damage from Sneak Attack translates into healing when Touch of the Shadow Sun discharges the secondary effect.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He means hitting with the Negative energy first (dealing Sneak Attack damage). The extra damage from Sneak Attack translates into healing when Touch of the Shadow Sun discharges the secondary effect.Nice abuse, though I don't know why the DM would allow that, but wouldn't allow you to heal yourself with the Pos energy. The "counting SA as 'damage dealt by the ToSS ability'" part is what's broken, not the 'healing yourself' part.

[PinkysBrain]

It's not really abuse ... ignoring the broken ranger spell from PHB2 your sneak attack dice won't be high enough to make the amount of healing which can be done disproportionate.

[quick_comment]

well i can take a knife and hit my liver enstead of cutting my shoulder soooo in dnd you should be able to sneak attack yourself

Yes, but you neither flank yourself nor are flatfooted against the attack.

[Sinfire Titan]

Nice abuse, though I don't know why the DM would allow that, but wouldn't allow you to heal yourself with the Pos energy. The "counting SA as 'damage dealt by the ToSS ability'" part is what's broken, not the 'healing yourself' part.

Unlimited healing with the SSN is easy. Just get a Cohort who has Tomb-Tainted Soul, and hit him with the negative energy every time you want to use the healing ability. The Sneak Attack just speeds up the process.

Nothing game-breaking, like being able to refresh every spell you want and reprepare spells every round thanks to Genesis+Gate or being able to kill creatures during the surprise round thanks to Celerity+Time Stop. It's just HP anyway; there are ways around HP.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Unlimited healing with the SSN is easy. Just get a Cohort who has Tomb-Tainted Soul, and hit him with the negative energy every time you want to use the healing ability. The Sneak Attack just speeds up the process.

Nothing game-breaking, like being able to refresh every spell you want and reprepare spells every round thanks to Genesis+Gate or being able to kill creatures during the surprise round thanks to Celerity+Time Stop. It's just HP anyway; there are ways around HP.Not breaking, but definitely abuse. And yeah, the healing is already infinite, but now it is much better in-combat healing than it was supposed to be.

[quick_comment]

SSN is a pretty lame prc anyway. (Full of flavor, but the mechanics just lack that bite).

It should have built much more on shadow hand and setting sun, rather than a bunch of unrelated abilities. I want a teleporting, vanish into smoke, grab you from behind and eat your soul sort of ninja. Not the "poke, you take minor damage" ninja. The capstone is cool, but the drawbacks are way too much for what you get from it (unless you are immune to con damage, but thats just cheese)

[Sinfire Titan]

SSN is a pretty lame prc anyway. (Full of flavor, but the mechanics just lack that bite).

It should have built much more on shadow hand and setting sun, rather than a bunch of unrelated abilities. I want a teleporting, vanish into smoke, grab you from behind and eat your soul sort of ninja. Not the "poke, you take minor damage" ninja. The capstone is cool, but the drawbacks are way too much for what you get from it (unless you are immune to con damage, but thats just cheese)

SSN is considered 8 levels long. Longer than most melee PrCs.

[Darrin]

Oops, got that completely wrong. Yes, you are your own ally of course ... finding where it says this specifically will be hard though, it's too obvious. Writers don't take into account that level of obstinateness.


Try the PHB glossary, under "ally".

And yes, the Sage either forgot this or was deliberately ignoring this definition when he responded to a question about White Raven Tactics.