Icewind Dale

[Skorj]

The BG thread inspired me to dig up Icewind Dale, to play a 2e-style RPG again. I managed to find the latest patch (Bioware seems to have dropped support), but I still have a display bug - areas that should have "fog of war" are simply black, and the map shows them as black as well, unless I click on the area, which get frustrating. Has anyone else seen this?

I had forgotten that the character creation system was "roll dice, then move points around" instead of a point buy system! Well, instead of just using a character editor as I probably should have to make my 6 little munchkins, I wrote an Autohotkey script to keep re-rolling until I got sufficiently good stats. That excercise was as much fun as the game, so it's all good. (I once wrote a quite elaborate AHK script for EQ2 crafting that was better at it than I was, but then realized that making the script was more fun than the actual game, and stopped playing.)

In any case, I never finished IWD, let alone the expansion, so hopefully it will be fun, if not the well written plot-driven fun of BG. Anyone still rememebrr this game and care? Was IWD2 any good?

[arguskos]

In any case, I never finished IWD, let alone the expansion, so hopefully it will be fun, if not the well written plot-driven fun of BG. Anyone still rememebrr this game and care? Was IWD2 any good?
I liked IWD and IWD2, but never really was into them as I was into BG2.

However, I DID love some of the characters from IWD, especially at the end, since a good number of those characters were excellent. I loved the six baddies at the end.

As a fun note, in case you don't know already, the hermit at the very beginning is actually the Big Bad of the game. :smallamused:

[DarkCloud]

I never played IWD1, but I heard that IWD2 was much better- and have played through it twice.

If, in BG2 I could have created my own party, it would be better than IWD2- But if you are a creative person and can create your own stories in your head- IWD2 can be very satisfying.

I would rank the games as:

BG1 (but only if you can turn off the near-constant ambushes at night and whenever you cross screens... it took me about 4000 game days to beat that game [no cleric])
IWD2 (somehow it took me 6000 game days... because I had no cleric.)
BG2
NWN

[Jølly]

Icewind Dale holds a very special place in my heart as it opened the door to DnD for me. I played both of them for a very long time and would probably still be playing if I could find my games... :smallannoyed:

As far as which one was better...I have to go with IWD 2 though maybe I should play the original now that I'm older. :smallbiggrin:

[Greep]

Icewind dale 2 was a bit better, but it had a rather annoying amount of "hordes." Like... the prologue has about 150 goblins, and chapter one has nearly a thousand orcs.

[Kalbron]

IWD2 is the most challenging fun you can have as a solo sorceror. After I played through BG2 and ToB as one I decided to give IWD2 a shot as one. It was extremely entertaining for one reason: Improved Invisibility is utterly broken. XD

[blueblade]

Who said you couldn't create your own party in BG2? Just start a multi-player game, create the full party, then copy it over to the single player save folder.

I've done it a few times, but only after trying pretty much every NPC, since some are really entertaining (but maybe not a for a true roleplayer). None is as powerful as a player made (except maybe Edwin), but most have some unusual quirks that make them unique from a PC.

[Greep]

IWD2 is the most challenging fun you can have as a solo sorceror. After I played through BG2 and ToB as one I decided to give IWD2 a shot as one. It was extremely entertaining for one reason: Improved Invisibility is utterly broken. XD

Oh yeah, but that gets old very quickly. Heh you should try solo thief. THAT's fun.

[Shikton]

The BG thread inspired me to dig up Icewind Dale, to play a 2e-style RPG again. I managed to find the latest patch (Bioware seems to have dropped support), but I still have a display bug - areas that should have "fog of war" are simply black, and the map shows them as black as well, unless I click on the area, which get frustrating. Has anyone else seen this?

Did you disable DirectDraw and Direct3D in dxdiag? Might help.

[Skorj]

Icewind Dale holds a very special place in my heart as it opened the door to DnD for me. I played both of them for a very long time and would probably still be playing if I could find my games... :smallannoyed:

As far as which one was better...I have to go with IWD 2 though maybe I should play the original now that I'm older. :smallbiggrin:

I don't have the IWD expansion, and I'm not sure where IWD2 is, so I bought the "DVD Collection" 3-pack for about $26. The IP must be in a weird state - there seem to be 3 companies selling IWD in boxes, 2 of which are in the $50-80 range (I guess one has non-game bonus material, which seems a bit silly). I guess it's a collectors item in the original packaging now.

As an aside: games as an item for collectors seems very weird to me, but I still have a couple of copies of the banned Deities and Demigods around since I saw Lou Zocchi selling that for $200. Of course, if you know Lou Zocchi, you know he can sell snake oil to snakes for $200, so that doesn't mean much. :smallbiggrin:

At any rate, I was quite entertained to discover that if you have a very high INT and CHA, you can "solve" the "get the drunk a bottle of wine" quest by ... literary deconstruction of drunkenness! Now that's a quest outcome you don't see every day!

[Skorj]

...
BG1 (but only if you can turn off the near-constant ambushes at night and whenever you cross screens... it took me about 4000 game days to beat that game [no cleric])
IWD2 (somehow it took me 6000 game days... because I had no cleric.)
BG2
NWN

OK, maybe I'm missing something, but why would you ever play D&D without a cleric? Unless you're playing the game for the Nth time just to see what class you can solo it with this time?

[Dhavaer]

IWD2 is the most challenging fun you can have as a solo sorceror. After I played through BG2 and ToB as one I decided to give IWD2 a shot as one. It was extremely entertaining for one reason: Improved Invisibility is utterly broken. XD

I loved that. Solo drow sorcerer for preference; the SR was a big help.

[Blayze]

I need to get back to my level 1 Insane/Heart of Fury run again. I might try soloing it as well... It's just the bit between Easthaven and Kuldahar that kills my parties -- or at least, it did until my party Druid acquired that spike spell to abuse in combation with Entangle. Damn goblins...

[mangosta71]

There really wasn't a whole lot of RP in the IWD games. They're hack'n'slash dungeon crawls. Which is fine, because that's what they're intended to be. And I enjoyed them immensely when I was playing them as such. But BG and BG2 have tons of RP, which I also greatly enjoyed. Even though they use basically the same engine, and the same ruleset, I'd say they're different genres (BG = RP and IWD = action).

[Blayze]

Nah, Planescape: Torment was the RP game and the Baldur's Gate games were the balance. ;)

[Triaxx]

Which works out well.

Druids? Fah, I just lay down sleep spells en masse, then the fighters trample all over the opposition. In either case, crowd control is absolutely essential. On the other hand, in IWD2, a party of six druids can decimate the other wise most annoying encounter. Shambling mounds are immune to electricity.

[Remmirath]

If, in BG2 I could have created my own party, it would be better than IWD2- But if you are a creative person and can create your own stories in your head- IWD2 can be very satisfying.


You can. Just go into multiplayer, and then play it on your own. That's what I always do.
I should probably give it a try with the NPCs some time, but frankly I can't stand the majourity of them.

And yeah, Icewind Dale can be great. I personally like it better than Icewind Dale II, but that's probably at least partly because I prefer version 2 rules to version 3 in computer games.
Also because I hate point buy systems. Granted, Icewind Dale II has the best one I've seen (Knights of the Old Republic and Neverwinter Nights are downright painful), but I'll still take dice rolling any day.
In my opinion, IWDII has a rather downer ending, whereas IWD has a great one. I'd say in general the stories are about equal, both of them having their good and bad points.

[DarkCloud]

Who said you couldn't create your own party in BG2? Just start a multi-player game, create the full party, then copy it over to the single player save folder.

I've done it a few times, but only after trying pretty much every NPC, since some are really entertaining (but maybe not a for a true roleplayer). None is as powerful as a player made (except maybe Edwin), but most have some unusual quirks that make them unique from a PC.

Thank you for the tip. I will admit, I love Nalia's character... Aerie is okay, and the CE Dwarf can be interesting at times-- but most of the others I can do without.

Cernd- far too whiny.
Yoshimo- Love the characer, but sadly... Chapter 4 is it?
Imoen- :(
Jahiera- I lose her as soon as possible.

In BG1 I usually traveled with Xzar and Montaroon and Minsc (due to his power- my character was built so terribly that I looked at the end of the game and Minsc had somewhere around 2000-4000 kills and my character had about 900).


OK, maybe I'm missing something, but why would you ever play D&D without a cleric? Unless you're playing the game for the Nth time just to see what class you can solo it with this time?
I do not particularly like the clerics. And it should be known here that I am also a terrible optimizer, both in pen and paper DnD and in any game. I play to have fun, not to "optimize"... which perhaps is foolish.

What are the options in the game anyway?

I had Ajantis as a Paladin in my party in BG1, but I did not want Viconia in BG1 or BG2.

In BG2 I believe Aerie could cast healing spells... but I did not find her until almost the end of the act before I headed to the island- I stayed away from the carnival and only picked her up briefly to unlock her quests.

I also wandered around with Cernd the Druid, so I had some healing. But there simply are not very many cleric options.

[arguskos]

In BG2 I believe Aerie could cast healing spells... but I did not find her until almost the end of the act before I headed to the island- I stayed away from the carnival and only picked her up briefly to unlock her quests.

I also wandered around with Cernd the Druid, so I had some healing. But there simply are not very many cleric options.
Anomen, in the Copper Coronet, is a cleric. In the Government District there is Viconia, a LE evil cleric you can save from being burned to death. That makes 4 (5 if you count Jaheria) healer options.

[Kalbron]

Not to mention that a Divine caster is almost essential to avoid hair pulling annoyance.

Chaotic Commands is THE spell that is absolutely needed for much of the game. Just about anything else you can ignore, or find substitutes, but the ability to shrug off mind flayers/charm spells/dominate spells/etc is invaluable.

[DarkCloud]

Anomen, in the Copper Coronet, is a cleric. In the Government District there is Viconia, a LE evil cleric you can save from being burned to death. That makes 4 (5 if you count Jaheria) healer options.

Yes... I had Anomen in my party for all of 5 minutes before I kicked him out for being far too annoying. So my only options seem to be Cernd and Aerie (If I remember correctly that she was a Mage/Cleric).

My party on two playthroughs looked sort of like this:

Character (Fighter or Paladin)
Minsc (Barbarian)
Cernd (Druid)
Nalia (Rogue/Mage)
Yoshimo (Rogue)
Dwarf (Fighter)... until I at last found Aerie (Mage/Cleric)

at times it was quite a slog.

[Pronounceable]

I find it funny that an IWD thread has become a BG one.

[DranWork]

How did you not play bg1 or 2 with Edwin? possiably the funniest character ever and easly the most overpowered npc. By the end of Bg2 he can pretty much solo everything lol

Rather enjoyed IWD as well however due to every character being your own creation kinda made the first run though hollow.

[Kalbron]

There's not a huge amount to IWD2, so it's not too surprising that the discussion veered off into BG2. It's a fun game, but I can't even recall whether it was IWD1 or 2 which had the Yuan-Ti or the decaying Elven Mythal or the half-fiend twins. Or maybe it was neither. The stories sort of merged together considering it was primarily about seeing how many endless waves of monsters you could slaughter and if you could do it solo!

... what? You mean there was a point other than seeing how difficult you could make the game for yourself?

[arguskos]

There's not a huge amount to IWD2, so it's not too surprising that the discussion veered off into BG2. It's a fun game, but I can't even recall whether it was IWD1 or 2 which had the Yuan-Ti or the decaying Elven Mythal or the half-fiend twins. Or maybe it was neither. The stories sort of merged together considering it was primarily about seeing how many endless waves of monsters you could slaughter and if you could do it solo!

... what? You mean there was a point other than seeing how difficult you could make the game for yourself?
IWD1 was about a demon opening an ancient portal to the Abyss to conquer the frozen North. It had the five level Yuan-Ti Super Dungeon with the marilith at the bottom. It also had the decaying mythal.

IWD2 had the cambion twins and included bits about the mythal. It had a fair amount of yuan-ti, but not in the numbers IWD1 had.

[DarkCloud]

>>How did you not play bg1 or 2 with Edwin? possiably the funniest character ever and easly the most overpowered npc. By the end of Bg2 he can pretty much solo everything lol

I don't think I found him in one of the games, (I forget which one), and I know in BG1 I was already quite happy with Xzar as the party spell-caster (Xzar is perhaps my second favorite character in the series [after Nalia]). I was quite upset with how things turned out at the Harpers'-- I couldn't stand those twits.

[Skorj]

Is BG1 2E or 3E -based? I'd like anothe 2E game to mess around with.

Also, did anyone play the TOEE game? Was it any good?

[Pronounceable]

Also, did anyone play the TOEE game? Was it any good?

It's bad. At most generous, we could say it's quite below average.

[arguskos]

It's bad. At most generous, we could say it's quite below average.
I thought it was alright. It certainly wasn't great, but it was playable and decently fun.

Also, BG1 is like BG2: 2e based, if loosely.

[mangosta71]

Yes, BG1 and 2 are, like IWD1, 2E. IWD2 is 3E, and I think after that NWN went into 3.5, but I haven't played it so I'm not sure. There are some other, older games that use the 2E ruleset (the Eye of the Beholder trilogy comes to mind), but there's not a whole lot of RP in most of those. EoB plays more like a FPS than a RPG.

[Kalbron]

So encouraged by this and similar threads I reinstalled almost every one of my Infinity Engine games. I have to say that for sheer amusement, playing through BG1 (Tutu of course) as a solo Assassin is hillarious... especially if you remove the XP cap. I'm almost level 9 and I only just started Chapter 2. 17k gold. A +2 Short Sword. Fun times.

I really will have to try a Sorceror and see if it's any harder and funnier than BG2/IWD2.

[Shikton]

It's definitely harder, what with starting out at level 1. But as you progress...woopdedoo, it's gonna be nothing short of a walk in the park. I ran through as a Kensai/Mage. Playing Kensai in BG1 = severely broken. It's automatic win really. Or perhaps the Archer kit. Pretty much any kit...

EDIT: This is an IWD topic, so I should probably say something about that too =P But suffice to say, I think it's one of the most entertaining hack and slash games out there. Putting together a party of 1-6 chars really makes a whole lot of difference for me, and the game is short enough to just install for a quick playthrough. Quick compared to the other IE games at least.

[Spiryt]

I've played solo Ranger in Icewind Dale, and had gone pretty far before I got bored.

I know some people finished those Infinity games several times with various moded solo characters, but I just don't have the itch for that :smallcool:

I think I just played them mostly for/story/atmosphere/quests so doing it x times isn't so fun...

[Kalbron]

Well I've played through all of them several times with parties before going solo. Except for IWD2, which doesn't really need a party to enjoy the story, whereas BG2 definitely needs a party because the characters are just so awesome.

[742]

i found icewind dale two extremely lacking, one was fine. baulders gate two is definitely on my list of "best games ever", though the expansion can go die in a horrible aids fire of some sort, and the first one was just good, not great.
and no, i never played planescape. *ninja's out before she gets shot*

[Kalbron]

Planescape is fun. I personally wouldn't put it on the same level as BG2 as it's almost essential that you play Planescape with a guide in order to maximise your enjoyment of the story. There's just so much you can miss otherwise. BG2 however I found was more enjoyable to play through without a guide the first time, and you still hit all the major plot milestones along the way.

Which is somewhat like what occurs in IWD2, but the plot is far less engaging than BG2's. "Save the realms" doesn't really cut it compared with "save your immortal soul" for a truly engaging plotline imo.

[TSED]

Planescape is fun. I personally wouldn't put it on the same level as BG2 as it's almost essential that you play Planescape with a guide in order to maximise your enjoyment of the story. There's just so much you can miss otherwise. BG2 however I found was more enjoyable to play through without a guide the first time, and you still hit all the major plot milestones along the way.

I disagree.

Don't use the guide, play it more than once!

With different classes.

With different alignments.

With (somewhat) different NPCs.


Which is somewhat like what occurs in IWD2, but the plot is far less engaging than BG2's. "Save the realms" doesn't really cut it compared with "save your immortal soul" for a truly engaging plotline imo.

You know, I never did play IWD2. I should get ahold of it somehow some day...

[742]

IWD2 not worth the time IMO, the engine is there, and its better (if somewhat buggier on newer OS's) but the story is, well, its bad.