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Jack_of_Spades
2009-06-22, 10:43 PM
Okay, this is a bit odd. Or at the very least, has gotten me some odd looks.

The KKK wears white robes to show white power. What would racist organizations wear in a fantasy setting?

Let's say a group hates halflings. So, do they wear stilts to show the power of tall people?
If a person hates elves would they magically grow a bunch of body hair?

What are other ways an organization could look racist? I'm thinking of having an anti-human group that wars against the silver flame in a eberron campaign and I wanted to know what to make them look like.

brujon
2009-06-22, 10:45 PM
For the elves, i think of an emblem readily. Pointy ears inside a "No" sign. It's cheesy, but it's an idea :D

Ganurath
2009-06-22, 10:46 PM
It depends on which race does the hating. Orcs that hate dwarves wear beards on their belts, while those that hate elves wear a necklace of pointy ears. Humans that hate halflings keep their coinpurses high on their person, while those that hate elves get suntans.

...It contrasts them against the pale elves, and symbolically demonstrates superior endurance.

arguskos
2009-06-22, 10:46 PM
Anti-elf: A symbol of a burning tree.

That seems like it works well, since elves love their trees.

Mark Hall
2009-06-22, 10:56 PM
Actually, the elves of the Forgotten Realms have an anti-human organization, the Eldreth Veluuthra. Can't remember their symbol, but they do exist.

Mr.Moron
2009-06-22, 10:59 PM
Humans that hate halflings keep their coinpurses high on their person, while those that hate elves get suntans.

...It contrasts them against the pale elves, and symbolically demonstrates superior endurance.

Um, you might wanna rethink that one.

ondonaflash
2009-06-22, 11:07 PM
Maybe elf-haters keep a leaf pinned to their shirts, or wear leaf-like masks? Give them a wood-spirit esque appearance, to add a spiritual element to their attacks.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-22, 11:07 PM
The anti-living beings organizations wear a bleeding sun, to show their opposition to the oppression of the unliving by the Clerical conspiracy.

Kol Korran
2009-06-22, 11:30 PM
can you give us any more information about the anti-humans, anti-silver flame organization? (note that these two aspects don't have to be tied together... the silver flame, though predominantly human and having unofficial prejudices against other races, isn't openly racist, it's mostly the opinions and influence of higher ups human in the church)

also, two more points:
1- a racist organization doesn't have to have a symbol that is blatantly anti racial, it could use something that is more of a metaphore, ot a symbol. for example, lets say that your organization finds out that human originated from Rierda. their symbol could be a the Continenet of Khorvaire with the symbol of the soverign host in the middle (forgot it's name) with a color symbolizing each of the arms of the symbol in a color symbolizing each of the racs. also, to the east of the symbol there is a silver line/ ball/ shape, symbolizing the humans (and the silver flame) "in their place" to the east.

on that issue, you could have all kinds of slogans and conspiracy theories:
- "down with the five nations! up with the insert appropriate number of raceskingdoms of Khorvaire!" (where all racists know that humans aren't included)
- "Khorvaire for the (number of rcaes), Riedra for the humans"
- "oh soverign, cleanse us of the silver plague!"
- "cannith, the human house is the bane of knorvaire. they caused the mourning! this would never have happened if not for human reckless ambition! beware the gorgon's sale!" (the members of the organization might refrain from buying anything made or approved by the house. think of other dragonmarked houses and see what's the attitude towards them)
- i suggest you check how they feel for the blood of vol. they might consider them allies, weirdos, or perhaps even freaks that were created as a counter reaction to the silver flame, and so must also be destroyed. this could lead to the odd occurance of the blood and the flame working together against a commong threat.

2- one of the main reasons the KKK dressed in white had nothing to do with white power. it was just that sheets were available to everyone, and thus everyone could easely make their own costume. not a well known fact, but there it is. if your organization is about to reach the masses, i suggest a symple symbol, one that might be hidden or explained easely to someone that is not of the organization. that is why i suggest the oddly colored symbol of the host.

hope this helped, please tell us more of this organization, and we might be able to help you flesh it out.

Coidzor
2009-06-22, 11:36 PM
Okay, this is a bit odd. Or at the very least, has gotten me some odd looks.

The KKK wears white robes to show white power. What would racist organizations wear in a fantasy setting?

Let's say a group hates halflings. So, do they wear stilts to show the power of tall people?
If a person hates elves would they magically grow a bunch of body hair?

What are other ways an organization could look racist? I'm thinking of having an anti-human group that wars against the silver flame in a eberron campaign and I wanted to know what to make them look like.

Sounds like you need to see the power of ZA-RUS-ah! He'll cast them damned dirty demihuman heathens out of society! Praise-ah Za-rus-ah! (seriously though, Zarus is supposed to be the deity of human domination of other races or something... is Racist God #1 in DnD Lore. From Races of Destiny. Might give you some ideas to research 'im.)

...Also, I imagine something along the lines of the x-men series chants of mutants go home being adapted to humans. "Back to Sarlona" movement, if you will... hehe.

TheYoungKing
2009-06-22, 11:39 PM
The KKK didn't start out wearing white sheets. That was the 20s Klan, which did use white sheets for their white symbolism.

Originally, they wore things ranging from red to blue to black to plain old unbleached cotton. Something I read somewhere suggested that blue was surprisingly common, because of indigo plantations across the South.

They wore their robes for anonymity, and because they were following in the tradition of the Wide-Awakes and Known-Nothings. Those two groups used similar outfits.

They spun stories about being ghosts as well, and to an ill-educated freedman, they must have looked bizarre, if not outright frightening.

I don't think a racial organization would have to adopt extra symbolism for their hate. The Elvish Anti-Human group could use some Elvish symbol, the Dwarves some Dwarvish symbol, etc.....

An interesting idea for Eberron might be posing as Warforged- they are mysterious and frightening, and would draw some of the same emotions as ghosts did in the South, I think.

Thurbane
2009-06-22, 11:40 PM
Wasn't there a group like this is the Wheel of Time books? Whitecloaks?

Zarus is a god affiliated with this type of thing in D&D...

Jack_of_Spades
2009-06-23, 12:50 AM
The faction I'm using is an offshoot of The Church of the Silver Flame and is closer to the armies of purification form Dark Sun. They are openly racist and they try to oppress non-humans in mixed populations; if there's an integrated orc, human, half-orc village, they'll give weapons and armor to the humans while taxing a secretly killing orcish types.

This, of course, created an opposing faction that lashes out at all humans and is composed of just about everything that isn't human. There is some infighting because some races look more human than others.

The faction that the party is going to fight has their noses elongated or have pieces of metal grafted on to show they are not pig-faced swine.

I was trying to think what the opposing orcs would have and then drifted off and wondered how other races would display their hatred.

I've been thinking of other ways for races to show how they hate another race.

People who hate elves can cut off the top of their ears.
People who hate drow bleach their skin.

arguskos
2009-06-23, 02:25 AM
Actually, the elves of the Forgotten Realms have an anti-human organization, the Eldreth Veluuthra. Can't remember their symbol, but they do exist.
http://www.geocities.com/matt_kruer/Eldreth.jpg
And here you are. :smallamused: But yes, that's a human skull pierced by a sword. I love that picture.

Coidzor
2009-06-23, 02:28 AM
^:Heh, I'd say that's not just pierced... It's Bisected! Fits with the setting though, since it loves the "Our Elves Are Different AND BETTER"


The faction I'm using is an offshoot of The Church of the Silver Flame and is closer to the armies of purification form Dark Sun. They are openly racist and they try to oppress non-humans in mixed populations; if there's an integrated orc, human, half-orc village, they'll give weapons and armor to the humans while taxing a secretly killing orcish types.

This, of course, created an opposing faction that lashes out at all humans and is composed of just about everything that isn't human. There is some infighting because some races look more human than others.

The faction that the party is going to fight has their noses elongated or have pieces of metal grafted on to show they are not pig-faced swine.

I've been thinking of other ways for races to show how they hate another race.

http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=632 Might find this interesting. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a Can at least use as a sort of basis to build upon for the sect.

Probably they would more attempt to keep mutilated slaves (or at least make war against them and keep trophies of the mutilated/desecrated dead) of those they hate than mutilate themselves.

Hmm... I can see a broader anti-human movement arising from such a human supremacist group's acts of genocide... But I think it'd sort of mostly be smaller groups of one, maybe two races working in conjunction.

As far as I can tell, both sides would probably have to be terrorists ala the Order of the Emerald Claw...

And both sides would pretty much make life a ***** for half or mixed bloods....

The Inspired sure would happy to suddenly be targeted due to their obviously otherworldly and non-human perversion of human bloodlines.

Oh goody, all kinds of terrorists, cultists, and other sundry shady characters getting in on this...

Sergeantbrother
2009-06-23, 02:35 AM
Most of the things being discussed here aren't at all similar to what people do in real life to show racism. {scrubbed}
Make up a similar symbol for your setting. Sure, it wont have any meaning because of its shape, but it could have plenty of meaning in your world if you give the symbol and those who use it history and motivation in your setting.

Cyclocone
2009-06-23, 02:44 AM
Yeah, take a look at Zarus. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041203a)

His entire organization is pretty much a blatant copy/paste of Nazi-Germany.

I mean, come on:

Zarus's priests look for attractive, healthy youths who show pride in their abilities and arrogance toward anyone weaker. They recruit these people by offering to make them the best they can be. These acolytes are subjected to strict training, honing their physiques, and at the same time they are taught that humanity is the superior race and deserves to rule the world. These young clerics learn both how to give rousing speeches and how to wage war. They begin preaching in villages and towns, spreading their message.

Hitler Jugend much?:smallconfused:

TheYoungKing
2009-06-23, 02:54 AM
Or of various cult/supremacy ideologies throughout history......

And I still think fake Warforged would grab the same mentality as ghost garb or Indian disguises had in American history.

bosssmiley
2009-06-23, 04:59 AM
The Gheallie Sidhe (http://www.birthright.net/brwiki/index.php/Gheallie_Sidhe) of Birthright. Wild, mad, hard-riding elves whose idea of a good time was to torch a human village, shoot down the fleeing peasants, spit their heads on pikes, then dance gleefully around the burning pyre of their feeble human hopes and dreams.

Their long-term plan: drive the humans into the sea from whence they came! Then get back to enslaving and oppressing the goblins.

One of the big bads of the Birthright setting is the poster boy of the Gheallie Sidhe.

An Orcish version of the KKK is potentially entertaining: "Green power! Green power! We am superior race." :thog:

And an anti-Gnome organisation isn't racist: it's just good taste. "Hey Mom, guess what? I'm a hate figure. Raaaaar!" *whack with shovel*

Fitz10019
2009-06-23, 05:20 AM
A racist group would perceive itself, and individual members would perceive themselves, as already perfect. So, they would not alter their bodies in any way.

For symbolism, they would emphasize their own perceived perfection, their perceived purity. Their symbol would not be a struck-through halfling foot, or any other representation of another race. The emphasis would be on themselves.

A racist group's symbol would be as simple as a circle that is one solid color. A backlash anti-racist group would have a symbol that is a different geometric shape with a pattern of several colors, probably symmetrical to represent balance.

paddyfool
2009-06-23, 05:21 AM
Most of the things being discussed here aren't at all similar to what people do in real life to show racism. Whites who dislike blacks don't bleach their skin pale white, blacks who dislike whites don't dye their skin dark black. Most racist philosophies or organizations in the real world have symbols that aren't in of themselves racist at all - these symbols are only racist or meaningful at all in the context in which they appear. A Swastika, for example, is just a geometric symbol - a symbol whose shape has absolutely nothing to do with whiteness or Judaism.

Make up a similar symbol for your setting. Sure, it wont have any meaning because of its shape, but it could have plenty of meaning in your world if you give the symbol and those who use it history and motivation in your setting.

This.

I mean seriously... racist organisations do various things with symbols. They may:
1) Co-opt national symbols (possibly slightly modified); see extensive use of flags, e.g. the old confederate flag by white supremacists in the US, the union jack and george cross by the BNP etc. (EDIT: I am not saying these are the only groups that use these flags, simply that they co-opt them)
2) Co-opt religious symbols (possibly slightly modified); swastika, burning crucifixes, george cross again, etc. etc.
3) Make up a symbol that betokens violence (the various murals featuring AK-47s etc. put up by either side in Northern Ireland, for instance. I think the skull bisected by a sword is a tad unrealistic for this, since most racists like to cast themselves as defenders, not attackers; everyone wants to think they're the hero)

I hope I haven't strayed too far into real world politics there... moving back to the specific case, since your evil organisation are an offshoot of the Church of the Silver Flame, just give them a modified version of that church's symbol, with a touch of added violence. If you haven't named them yet, a good name for them might be "The knights of the purifying flame" or "the templars of the purifying flame", which might be shortened to "purifiers" in the vernacular. Given this is Eberron, and alignment is a tad looser than some settings, they'd have no specific alignment restrictions, but might be primarily a mix of misguided LNs and vindictive LEs; adhering to the L nature of the CotSF if not the G part.

arguskos
2009-06-23, 05:25 AM
for instance; I think the skull bisected by a sword is a tad unrealistic for this, since most racists like to cast themselves as defenders, not attackers; everyone wants to think they're the hero)
I'd just like to point out that the Eldreth Veluuthra believe that by scourging humanity from the land, they can save elfkind from certain doom, thus the insane "we cut your head in half" symbol. And it sorta works for that kind of thing, if that's how your group works.

Kalbron
2009-06-23, 05:34 AM
The Eldreth Veluuthra don't exactly go around shouting from the treetops who they are either. There's a very good reason why they don't number any clerics among their ranks and it's because none of the elven gods approve of their actions. And when you're a race that has a very very very close relationship with your pantheon that's NOT a good sign for you.

Even if they've got a symbol, they wouldn't use it much at any rate except for a calling card, so it's not really a good basis in that respect, but the organisation as a whole may be a good inspiration.

Kol Korran
2009-06-23, 05:38 AM
just a thought, but what have you done concerning the Valenar elves and your general theme? the Valenar aren't hating racist, they just KNOW their race is better, and that the others are... "combat practice". would the antihumans try to enlist them? i think unlikely as they even attack elves who are not oftheir culture, but it may be worth a thought.

i would suggest you give two types of avenues to show your "colors" (sort to speak:
- bodyily changes, like elf haters cutting the top of their ears and drow haters bleaching their skin (by the way, why involve the drow here? they are a xenderic race, you'd imagine there are enough races to hate in Khorvaire. now stormreach is a different matter). this will fit those who wish to show their hatred openly, almost bosting at it.
- non bodily changes, mostly by symbols, perhaps language patters or terms (you now need cuss word for each race), and so on. for less dedicated people, but also for those who wish to work against the "offensive" races in secret.

some questions that come to mind, which might be worth considering:
- how are half breed considered? mainly half orcs and half elves. half elves in Eberrong have progressed to an almost pure-breed state, simply because they only breed with their kind, but that's not the same with orcs... i belive they will be hated, but that can be more (symbolizing the weakness of other members is society who DARED to intermigle), or less (poor half breeds, not their fault they carry this curse... hey, maybe we can also use them to our cause?)

- shifters... they are considered humans with a gift? humanoids? or maybe just beasts?

- changlings: a whole nest of trouble. they can be human, but can also be any other race. to some people their existence is an abomination, to some a secret powerfull tool...

-Kalashtar and Inspired: well, they look human, except for those odd looking eyes, beautifull hair, and skin... beautifull humans perhaps? some people say they are aligned with some outer realsm spirits, you know? you think that is true?

- what about the dragonmarked houses? there is a tight connection to race for each house. are some houses hated? how is this hated shown? (since messing with a dragonmark house is a far cry from one intermingled village)

- Religion: comingto think of it, any "hate group" probably doesn't believe in the host, or believe in a realy crooked version of it, one that eliminates a race or more. the believers can believe either at some new streange belief system, but i think you could also make a mispresentation of some of the dark six as your major gods... the fury, the mockery, and the traveler may all be easely depicted as "new gods" that favour the path of racism. maybe a combination of some gods? hey, goblinoids can resurect their old versions of the six...

just some things i thought i'd write,
Kol.

paddyfool
2009-06-23, 05:54 AM
i would suggest you give two types of avenues to show your "colors" (sort to speak:
- bodyily changes, like elf haters cutting the top of their ears and drow haters bleaching their skin (by the way, why involve the drow here? they are a xenderic race, you'd imagine there are enough races to hate in Khorvaire. now stormreach is a different matter). this will fit those who wish to show their hatred openly, almost bosting at it.


I disagree here. The most racists in the real world do is shave their head or get tattoos done - no skin bleaching etc., so why would it be otherwise in Eberron?



- non bodily changes, mostly by symbols, perhaps language patters or terms (you now need cuss word for each race), and so on. for less dedicated people, but also for those who wish to work against the "offensive" races in secret.


Strongly agree here. Another note might be that the racists would probably be very keen to dress etc. in the ways they see as most typical of their race, and least akin to those they're most opposed to.



some questions that come to mind, which might be worth considering:
- how are half breed considered? mainly half orcs and half elves. half elves in Eberrong have progressed to an almost pure-breed state, simply because they only breed with their kind, but that's not the same with orcs... i belive they will be hated, but that can be more (symbolizing the weakness of other members is society who DARED to intermigle), or less (poor half breeds, not their fault they carry this curse... hey, maybe we can also use them to our cause?)

- shifters... they are considered humans with a gift? humanoids? or maybe just beasts?

- changlings: a whole nest of trouble. they can be human, but can also be any other race. to some people their existence is an abomination, to some a secret powerfull tool...

-Kalashtar and Inspired: well, they look human, except for those odd looking eyes, beautifull hair, and skin... beautifull humans perhaps? some people say they are aligned with some outer realsm spirits, you know? you think that is true?

- what about the dragonmarked houses? there is a tight connection to race for each house. are some houses hated? how is this hated shown? (since messing with a dragonmark house is a far cry from one intermingled village)


Paranoia is big in lots of racist groups. I could see oodles of conspiracy theories being adopted, especially as regards the Changelings, Kalashtar, Inspired, half-elves, and dragonmarked. Generally, I doubt they'd be openly hostile to any of the more powerful of these, although jumping an isolated representative would be another matter.

Another thing you could play up would be the "race traitor" angle: a particular hostility shown to those who associate with other races, heightened for those who miscegenate.

Jack_of_Spades
2009-06-23, 10:24 AM
Most of the things being discussed here aren't at all similar to what people do in real life to show racism. {Scrubbed}

Make up a similar symbol for your setting. Sure, it wont have any meaning because of its shape, but it could have plenty of meaning in your world if you give the symbol and those who use it history and motivation in your setting.

Yeah, I realize that things are over the top compared to real racists, but I want them to be easy to spot...most of the time.

AslanCross
2009-06-23, 03:56 PM
1. Give them a distinctive hairstyle.
2. Since they're fighting the Silver Flame, one of their symbols could be a corrupted Silver Flame symbol, maybe colored red, or splashed with blood (think The Mockery's symbol, which is a blood-splattered Sovereign Host symbol made out of a surgeon's tools)
3. They could also have a distinctive weapon. Eberron does this distinctive racial weapon thing a lot, so these guys could take it to the next level.

EDIT: Misread what you said. Maybe you could just use the Silver Torch? I know the Silver Flame has that hardline faction under it, and they're pretty much a racist and intolerant organization. You could just have a particular demagogue leader take it to the next level.

In my game I had the Silver Torch members sport a tattoo of the symbol over their left eye. The "flame" of the torch surrounds the eye, while the "handle" of the torch, stylized into an inverted triangle, stretches below that on the cheek.

Roland St. Jude
2009-06-23, 03:59 PM
Most of the things being discussed here aren't at all similar to what people do in real life to show racism. {Scrubbed}

Make up a similar symbol for your setting. Sure, it wont have any meaning because of its shape, but it could have plenty of meaning in your world if you give the symbol and those who use it history and motivation in your setting.

Sheriff of Moddingham: But the real life things people do are too political (and in some cases religious) to be discussed here. So people would be wise to set them aside for the purposes of this discussion.

Jastermereel
2009-06-23, 04:21 PM
Let's say a group hates halflings. So, do they wear stilts to show the power of tall people?

Why not carry 5' poles with "You must be this tall to ride" etched on them?

This thread needed a little more humor :smallbiggrin:

imp_fireball
2009-06-23, 05:20 PM
The boot stamped on the screaming face is great for humans. Also, humans flaying themselves or breaking their backs farming. They work hard and achieve nothing.

What about people that hate orcs? Orc tooth necklaces? Sword crippling a green hand? Calculator crushing a skull? Pencil lodged in an eye? /humor

Coidzor
2009-06-23, 08:15 PM
I would just like to echo AzlanCross's tattoo suggestion.

It'll be something displayed fairly prominently or could be hidden in a place where it could be shown on command to get into a meeting area.

The Silver-Flame militant group would make sense to have something prominent since they're going to be encountered more in ... combat such situations and such.

An anti-human shadow cult/terrorist cells group.... Definitely would make more sense to have a more hidden symbol.

tribble
2009-06-23, 08:29 PM
how powerful is this group? if they're a political force with influence and power over the land, arm bands or paramilitary uniforms. if they need to be covert, they'll probably want something that conceals their features.
as a calling card, that silver torch thing is probably a good idea, a' la the "lynch cross".

Ovaltine Patrol
2009-06-24, 02:35 AM
The Mystara campaign setting had the Storm Soldiers, who were a racist and nationalist group within some big empire who's name I forget :smalleek: