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Quietus
2009-06-23, 09:08 AM
My buddy and I were talking about how we could make a build that could bust through walls, snap men in half, and generally just be a bull in a china shop - he's willing to work with me to make it happen, so I'm considering my options with regards to how to pull this off.

So, if we're looking at a build somewhere in the level 5-10 area, how can I get my Strength checks to break objects up as high as (in)humanly possible? We were both exhausted, so we couldn't come up with a lot, but we've got :

Strength increases (obviously), including rage/bull's strength/etc
Destructive Rage
Strength Domain granted power

Unfortunately, from there we devolved into hilarious tangents. So, what all did we miss? The target goal is having a decent chance of hitting DC 26, to break through a stone wall.

Arakune
2009-06-23, 09:22 AM
My buddy and I were talking about how we could make a build that could bust through walls, snap men in half, and generally just be a bull in a china shop - he's willing to work with me to make it happen, so I'm considering my options with regards to how to pull this off.

So, if we're looking at a build somewhere in the level 5-10 area, how can I get my Strength checks to break objects up as high as (in)humanly possible? We were both exhausted, so we couldn't come up with a lot, but we've got :

Strength increases (obviously), including rage/bull's strength/etc
Destructive Rage
Strength Domain granted power

Unfortunately, from there we devolved into hilarious tangents. So, what all did we miss? The target goal is having a decent chance of hitting DC 26, to break through a stone wall.

Polimorph into a animated object?

ImmortalAer
2009-06-23, 09:23 AM
Polimorph into a animated object?

Unfortunately I don't think there's many seven foot human-esque glass pitchers around. :smallamused:

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-23, 09:27 AM
Glass Golem Fighter6/Barbarian 14 with Dungeoncrasher.

jcsw
2009-06-23, 10:13 AM
Sources allowed?

If its anything I'd go with

Goliath Barbarian 1/Fighter 2 With the Goliath Barbarian Racial sub and Dungeoncrasher.
Take extra rage and destructive rage.
Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Knockback are next in line, followed by EWP Spiked Chain if you can squeeze it in.

At ECL 4 you have a +17 to break down walls while raging.
You're still effective in combat (who wouldn't with that much stength?) with your knockbacks.

ericgrau
2009-06-23, 11:46 AM
DC 26 is pretty easy with retries. You're probably thinking of a thin wall of stone spell. The typical dungeon masonry wall is DC 35, and other walls are stronger.

I'd try an ogre for the high strength mod, plus the large size is useful for other things. I think I recently did an ogre build that pulled it off.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 01:39 PM
Sorry guys, seems I wasn't entirely clear.

I don't want to *be* a giant glass pitcher. I want to be able to bust through walls. I'm trying to find ways to directly increase my Strength checks to break objects; so far, the best way to do that without eating massive LA for a big strong base monster (I don't like using MM creatures) is looking like that Goliath sub level, and Destructive Rage. Neat, but there's gotta be a way we can go better.

Is there any feats that give you a bonus to Break checks outside of Destructive Rage? Items? Class features?

::Edit:: Also, the Ogre idea, while valid (+10 to Strength is delicious for these purposes), also means going outside the bounds of normal races, which I try to avoid doing. That being said, this world does have an NPC by the name of Tiny, a hulkingly large human who is essentially an Ogre Barbarian straight from the MM. If there's really this few options available, I might use that as the basis to do the same thing.

kenjigoku
2009-06-23, 01:48 PM
Sorry guys, seems I wasn't entirely clear.

I don't want to *be* a giant glass pitcher. I want to be able to bust through walls. I'm trying to find ways to directly increase my Strength checks to break objects; so far, the best way to do that without eating massive LA for a big strong base monster (I don't like using MM creatures) is looking like that Goliath sub level, and Destructive Rage. Neat, but there's gotta be a way we can go better.

Is there any feats that give you a bonus to Break checks outside of Destructive Rage? Items? Class features?

I think that there is some abilities under Stone Dragon from the ToB:Bo9S that have things that are particularly useful for breaking stuff. I could be wrong though I am AFB. (If I am right you can either use a feat to take the ability, or you could MC warblade)

ericgrau
2009-06-23, 01:50 PM
Ogre is only 2 LA and 4 HD to give +10 strength. Considering that class levels don't typically boost strength I'd go for it. OTOH I think there's some class out there that gives strength every level instead of BAB. If you can find out what that was I'd just take that instead.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 01:53 PM
Ogre is only 2 LA and 4 HD to give +10 strength. Considering that class levels don't typically boost strength I'd go for it. OTOH I think there's some class out there that gives strength every level instead of BAB. If you can find out what that was I'd just take that instead.

War Hulk. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Miniatures handbook.

Burley
2009-06-23, 01:55 PM
Also, make sure you get your hands on some tights. White Tights.

subject42
2009-06-23, 01:59 PM
I think there's a warforged prestige class (juggernaut?) that gives you a massive bonus to checks to break things.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 02:00 PM
Also, make sure you get your hands on some tights. White Tights.

Actually, the way we've laid this character out, we thought it'd be hilarious for him to have been a spur-of-the-moment conscript into the army (we're currently in the process of fighting back a massive wave of troops from less desirable sources). As in, he's dressed in pajama pants with sheep on them, and a sleeping cap, which he calls his chapeau. *Just* these things. Heaven forbid anyone makes fun of him for them, because his mom made them for him, and he won't allow anyone to insult them.

Personality-wise, I'm seeing him as a devoted of Kord, who seeks challenges of his strength at every turn. And any time a challenge is thrown at him, he tries to find a way to get through it strictly with strength-based responses. To that end, War Hulk would have been great... if I could only access it.

ericgrau
2009-06-23, 02:01 PM
Hmm, if you don't mind templates then half-dragon gives +8 strength for +3 LA. Half-minotaur might help too, but I dunno where that's from.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 02:01 PM
I think there's a warforged prestige class (juggernaut?) that gives you a massive bonus to checks to break things.

Hm. If it weren't for the fact that I can talk the DM into letting me skin things differently (it's much less hilarious if I'm actually a construct), that wouldn't be that great... though as it is, the major limiting factor is again a lack of books. My group doesn't really pick up setting-specific material, since we run homebrews.


Hmm, if you don't mind templates then half-dragon gives +8 strength for +3 LA. Half-minotaur might help too, but I dunno where that's from.

True, hadn't thought about that. I may have to poke at Strength-boosting templates.. I'd really rather avoid having to do major reskinning if I can, but hey, I'd rather see this go into theoretical optimization and I can scale it back from there.

ericgrau
2009-06-23, 02:08 PM
Good hope gives a +2 to ability checks. It's bard 3 or a 7 minute potion is 1k. A pale green ioun stone gives a +1 for 30k. Enlarge person (e.g., a potion, friendly caster, etc.) gives a size bonus to strength, as does some cleric spell I think. That's all I could find for items, other than the typical strength boosters.

I'm not a big fan of crazy optimization either which is why I suggested making him a monster. I don't know any other mild way to do it.

Eldariel
2009-06-23, 02:14 PM
Best options:
-Dungeoncrasher Fighter [Dungeonscape] (take 6 levels for massive bonuses to just this, and other good stuff)
-Destructive Rage Barbarian (combine with above; Pharaoh's build was fine in this regard)
-Totemist (there are Soulmelds that directly improve your Str-checks; could be coupled with the above)
-Frenzied Berserker (well, logical continuation of Barbarian, more Str means better Str-checks)
-Cleric (well, it's no secret that casters are pretty good at pumping their Str; then again, I guess you aren't exactly looking for advice on how to abuse Polymorph, Righteous Might and the like)


The first two are especially focused on this. Can't argue it'd be against Frenzied Berserker's agenda either. Frankly, I'd probably go Dungeoncrasher 6/Barbarian 1/Frenzied Berserker 10/Barbarian +3. Purely mundane, breaks things. You gotta pick up Extra Rage, but c'est la vie.

EDIT: On level 7, when raging, you have +18 to Str-checks to break things before adding your Str! With starting 18, +2 item and Rage, that adds up to +7 Str for +25 to breaking things. In other words, you can take 10 to run through a wall.

Bayar
2009-06-23, 02:16 PM
Make sure your DM will allow your warcry to be 'Get off my Kool-aid mother****er !'.

Other than that, go with a dungeoncrusher. It gives big bonuses to attacking objects, and walls are objects.

Person_Man
2009-06-23, 02:21 PM
Perhaps something involving Riverine? It's a special material from Stormwrack. It's essentially water encased in a what’s essentially a Wall of Force. If you make something out of Riverine, it cannot be destroyed by anything except for Disintigrate and a few other high level spells. If you make armor out of Riverine, then half of the AC bonus counts as a Deflection bonus. A nice DM will let you substitute Kool Aid for water as the filling. Maybe a Warforged with Riverine Plating?

Also, one level of Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) will let you add your Cha bonus to Sunder and Bull Rush checks. A few levels of Factotum will let you add your Int to Str checks.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 02:25 PM
Perhaps something involving Riverine? It's a special material from Stormwrack. It's essentially water encased in a what’s essentially a Wall of Force. If you make something out of Riverine, it cannot be destroyed by anything except for Disintigrate and a few other high level spells. If you make armor out of Riverine, then half of the AC bonus counts as a Deflection bonus. A nice DM will let you substitute Kool Aid for water as the filling. Maybe a Warforged with Riverine Plating?

Also, one level of Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) will let you add your Cha bonus to Sunder and Bull Rush checks. A few levels of Factotum will let you add your Int to Str checks.

Haha, that's a fantastically amusing idea @ the Riverine Kool-aid man thing, but this character isn't going to be a construct. Just acts like one.

So, Dungeoncrasher keeps coming up a lot. As I know it, it just gives you a bunch of damage when you bull rush a target into a wall; What else am I missing there? I don't have immediate access to Dungeonscape, but I believe the DM does.



EDIT: On level 7, when raging, you have +18 to Str-checks to break things before adding your Str! With starting 18, +2 item and Rage, that adds up to +7 Str for +25 to breaking things. In other words, you can take 10 to run through a wall.

So... 8 of that from Destructive Rage. A bunch of Strength bonuses... and either I'm missing something, or Dungeoncrasher gives +10 to breaking objects? Is that right?

RTGoodman
2009-06-23, 02:33 PM
For a simple 10th-level build, you could go Ogre 4/(Spirit Lion Totem?) Barbarian 2/War Hulk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20030914a) 4, with the +2 LA from Ogre bought off at 6th and 9th level. You'd only have +5 BAB, but you'd have a whopping 38 Strength (+14 modifier) BEFORE items, raging, and all that. You also have just enough space to, by 20th level, go Ogre 4/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/War Hulk 10.


So, Dungeoncrasher keeps coming up a lot. As I know it, it just gives you a bunch of damage when you bull rush a target into a wall; What else am I missing there? I don't have immediate access to Dungeonscape, but I believe the DM does.

Dungeoncrasher replaces your 2nd and 6th level bonus feats, but it gives you the ability to do massive damage when you bull rush someone into a wall (6d6 at 2nd, 8d6 at 6th), a bonus to saves and AC vs. traps, AND a bonus to Str checks for breaking down walls (+5 at 2nd level, +10 at 6th).

With the Dungeoncrashing War Hulk build above, at 20th level you've got 53 Str WITHOUT items at 20th level (+21 modifier, I think), +10 from Dungeoncrasher, and then anything else you can add. That's a +31 before enhancements.

The DC for breaking through normal walls is HERE (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm), and you can beat several of those right off the bat. Breaking through 5 feet of unworked stone is still gonna be difficult, though (DC 65).

Eldariel
2009-06-23, 02:34 PM
So... 8 of that from Destructive Rage. A bunch of Strength bonuses... and either I'm missing something, or Dungeoncrasher gives +10 to breaking objects? Is that right?

As I said, "it does all other cool stuff too". On level 2, it gives you +5 to breaking objects. On level 6, that bonus is increased to +10. This is not usually brought up since the allure of the ACF is the Bull Rush-damage, but it's certainly fine for this. I might as well mention the third ability of the ACF too: +2 vs. traps on level 2, +4 on 6. Basically Trap Sense. And as I hopefully made sufficiently obvious, it is first bought on level 2 of Fighter and improves on 6; costs you both of those feats.

EDIT: Ninja! Also, I ninja'd someone!

Person_Man
2009-06-23, 02:46 PM
So, Dungeoncrasher keeps coming up a lot. As I know it, it just gives you a bunch of damage when you bull rush a target into a wall; What else am I missing there? I don't have immediate access to Dungeonscape, but I believe the DM does.

You trade 2 Fighter bonus feats (2nd level and 6th level) to get it. The damage is ridiculous (8d6 + Str*3, IIRC). Multiply that by 3+ attacks (usually you need Knockback and Pounce/Free Movement (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385) to do this), and you can pretty much kill anyone in one round.

It's also pretty easy to abuse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5897646) in various amusing ways. Knockback, Shock Trooper, touch attacks, Bloodstorm Blade, AoO combos, Flight (let's you Bull Rush enemies into the ground by positioning yourself above them), etc.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 02:50 PM
Two feats for that, eh? Neat... and I personally think I'd rather go Goliath over Ogre, if I'm going to lead into War Hulk. I lose 6 strength, sure, but I keep my intelligence/wisdom, gain most the benefits of being overly large, I'm closer to an actual Human... and I get four more class levels. Delicious, delicious Barbarian levels.


So if I go Goliath, with LA bought off at 6th, I can get...

Goliath Fighter6/Barb4/War hulk10, with the Dungeoncrasher variant. Assuming a starting strength of 18, +5 from levels, +20 from War hulk.. I'm looking at 43 strength with that, which is a +16 mod. Add 10 from Dungeoncrasher, for +26. Then I enter a Rage (Which I get 2/day!) and get +36 instead... and this is before items. Nice.

Feat-wise, I'm looking at Power Attack and Cleave to enter War Hulk, Improved Bull Rush for the Dungeoncrasher variant... and I think I'll probably pick up Shock Trooper, since ... well, it's too obvious not to.

Question : If I bull rush a target into their friend, do they take dungeoncrasher damage, or does it have to be a stone wall?

::Edit:: Forgot to add the Goliath strength bonus; Increase all of those strength check numbers by 2, or 3 with the Goliath racial sub level. :smallredface:

Since this character would be showing up in-game somewhere around level 8. With 18 starting strength, +4 from Goliath, +2 from levels, that's 24; +7 mod. I've got Dungeoncrasher, so I'm walking around with a +17 mod to break things casually. With Rage, my strength goes up to 30 with the sub-level, for a +10 mod, +10 dungeoncrasher, and Destructive Rage, for a total of +28 to break things when I hulk out... not bad at all. And then levels of Warhulk past level 10 just make things get silly.

RTGoodman
2009-06-23, 03:09 PM
I don't think you qualify for War Hulk as a Goliath - it requires size Large, which you aren't. (Powerful Build specifies when you count as a larger creature, and PrC prerequisites are part of it - feats and PrCs that allow Large size OR creatures with Powerful Build always specify.)

Of course, if you're using Mountain Rage (grow to size Large when you rage, Goliath RSL), then it might work, but I, as a DM, either wouldn't allow it or would only give you your War Hulk abilities when you raged.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 03:18 PM
I don't think you qualify for War Hulk as a Goliath - it requires size Large, which you aren't. (Powerful Build specifies when you count as a larger creature, and PrC prerequisites are part of it - feats and PrCs that allow Large size OR creatures with Powerful Build always specify.)

Of course, if you're using Mountain Rage (grow to size Large when you rage, Goliath RSL), then it might work, but I, as a DM, either wouldn't allow it or would only give you your War Hulk abilities when you raged.

Mm, true. My DM can either be a total stickler for the rules, or can allow anything so long as it's not game-breaking, depending on his mood... any other good LA+1 or less large-size races out there with a good strength bonus, then?

It's worth noting that he was very keen on the idea of this character being a monk, too... so I may also end up trying to convince him to let me play a monk (possibly with vow of poverty, which should keep my optimization level in line with the rest of the party) and give up THEIR level 2/6 bonus feats for the Dungeoncrasher thing. Not RAW, but I might be able to shimmy that past him.

Gralamin
2009-06-23, 03:23 PM
A Llothtouched (MM4 Template I believe) Race has +6 Strength and Con over what they initially had for LA +1.

I do not believe there are any LA +1 Large or larger races.

Person_Man
2009-06-23, 03:35 PM
I think Half Ogre from Races of Destiny is LA +1 or +2. You can also be a lycanthrope or Entomanothrope for +2 LA + applicable animal HD.

But IMO, you don't really need War Hulk. Half-Giant or Goliath Fighter 6/War Mind X (or anything that grants Expansion) works fine.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 03:43 PM
I think Half Ogre from Races of Destiny is LA +1 or +2. You can also be a lycanthrope or Entomanothrope for +2 LA + applicable animal HD.

But IMO, you don't really need War Hulk. Half-Giant or Goliath Fighter 6/War Mind X (or anything that grants Expansion) works fine.

Mm, true. It's just that ten levels of War Hulk add +10 to my "break stuff" checks. Meaning when I rage, and add the extra levels worth of strength, I'm adding 39, before items. If I went Vow of Poverty, that's +43 to strength checks to break objects when I'm angry... which isn't insignificant. Of course, without VoP, I could go Tome of Strength and +6 enhancement item for a total of... 18 (base) +4 (race) + 6 (goliath barb sub level) +5 (levels) + 5 (tome) + 6 (item) + 20 (War hulk). That's 64 strength, or a +27 modifier, to which I add 18 more (Dungeoncrasher/Destructive Rage, total +45) whenever I'm angry. +45 to strength checks to break things means that the only wall I CAN'T reliably break down is unworked stone 5+ feet thick.. so essentially, I can't break off miniature mountains at will. But even when I'm NOT angry, that's +32; That's a decent chance at anything that isn't stone, and that's going by the SRD's "Dungeons" page. My DM uses the Break DC's from ... the PHB, I think? In which case War Hulk would be entirely unneeded. :smallcool:

::Edit:: Half-ogre is +2 LA, sadly, or I'd just use that instead.

quick_comment
2009-06-23, 04:04 PM
As mentioned before, stone dragon has several maneuvers that ignore hardness. If you get something with a slam attack, you could initiate the maneuvers with the slam

Quietus
2009-06-23, 04:11 PM
As mentioned before, stone dragon has several maneuvers that ignore hardness. If you get something with a slam attack, you could initiate the maneuvers with the slam

Unfortunately, my DM does not use the ToB, nor am I particularly familiar with the system. And the point isn't ignoring hardness (though that can be useful); The point is to walk up to a well-guarded room, where we know there's enemies on the other side of the door, and bust through the wall to crack some skulls. Take away swords as needed through bending them until they snap, smack their punk selves around until they submit, then lock them up so they can serve their sentences.

woodenbandman
2009-06-23, 04:12 PM
Half Ogre Dungeoncrasher 6/ War Hulk 10.

That right there should have a strength mod of at least + 20.

Quietus
2009-06-23, 04:38 PM
Half Ogre Dungeoncrasher 6/ War Hulk 10.

That right there should have a strength mod of at least + 20.

With items, perhaps. Otherwise you've got 48, which is only +19. :smallamused:

Berserk Monk
2009-06-23, 04:41 PM
Unfortunately I don't think there's many seven foot human-esque glass pitchers around. :smallamused:

Giants need to serve refreshments too.

Me, I'd go frenzied berserker and I think there's a feat in complete warrior that let's you do extra damage when busting down a door or something.

Jalor
2009-06-23, 04:51 PM
Nobody has mentioned Half-Minotaur yet? +12 to STR (+4 for the template and +8 for the size increase) for LA+1 and you qualify for War Hulk. The Feral template from Savage Species gives another +4 to STR (and a very nice +6 AC bonus) for LA+1. Orcs are Medium-sized and have +4 to STR for LA+0. Assuming you put an 18 into STR, your ECL 8 Feral Half-Minotaur Orc Dungeon Crasher 6 will get +28 naked to break stuff. If you get a Bull's Strength buff, you can take 20 and bust down a 3ft thick hewn stone wall.

You then qualify for War Hulk, so by ECL 18 you can get +40 (if you put level bonuses into STR) to break checks. By now, you can smash that 3ft thick wall by taking 10.

You also have a +30 to STR in combat situations. Enjoy bull-rushing opponents into walls for 8d6 + 90 damage. At this rate, your party members are going to have to keep you on a leash. Maybe the halfling can use you as a mount, a la Master Blaster.

TheThan
2009-06-23, 04:55 PM
Hey Kool Aid! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3qoXAl48x0&feature=related)

Quietus
2009-06-23, 05:00 PM
Nobody has mentioned Half-Minotaur yet? +12 to STR (+4 for the template and +8 for the size increase) for LA+1 and you qualify for War Hulk. The Feral template from Savage Species gives another +4 to STR (and a very nice +6 AC bonus) for LA+1. Orcs are Medium-sized and have +4 to STR for LA+0. Assuming you put an 18 into STR, your ECL 8 Feral Half-Minotaur Orc Dungeon Crasher 6 will get +28 naked to break stuff. If you get a Bull's Strength buff, you can take 20 and bust down a 3ft thick hewn stone wall.

You then qualify for War Hulk, so by ECL 18 you can get +40 (if you put level bonuses into STR) to break checks. By now, you can smash that 3ft thick wall by taking 10.

You also have a +30 to STR in combat situations. Enjoy bull-rushing opponents into walls for 8d6 + 90 damage. At this rate, your party members are going to have to keep you on a leash. Maybe the halfling can use you as a mount, a la Master Blaster.

I'm fairly sure that if something is Large sized, you don't automatically get the Large size advancement stats on top of whatever the template gives you, so you're slightly ahead of yourself there, I think. That being said, I wouldn't mind aiming for a setup similar to this, though the closer it is to being human, the better, in my mind.

::Edit:: Just looked it up. My DM would say no on the grounds it's Dragon Magazine material, nevermind the clearly unintentional, obscenely overpowered results as a +1 LA template.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-23, 11:21 PM
Well, instead of trying to hit the DC to break through, just find a way to dal enough damage to bust your way through. Power Attack + Shock Trooper + Shards of Granite seem to be an ideal way to achieve this. Particularly with Lion Totem (Complete Champion) for pounce. Even better if you pick up Monk's Belt so you can do this unarmed.

Quietus
2009-06-24, 03:46 AM
Well, instead of trying to hit the DC to break through, just find a way to dal enough damage to bust your way through. Power Attack + Shock Trooper + Shards of Granite seem to be an ideal way to achieve this. Particularly with Lion Totem (Complete Champion) for pounce. Even better if you pick up Monk's Belt so you can do this unarmed.

I'm trying to avoid doing this by optimizing damage. What I want, in a nutshell, is someone who is combat-capable (preferrably with tricks that involve more than "I hit it for a ton of damage"), who can break through objects without having to rely on damage to do it. I'm trying to avoid out-damaging our current party meat shield/multi-armed-super-casting sorcerer, while still being useful in combat and being able to pull a couple neat tricks. Hence, optimally, trading Fighter dungeoncrasher thing for same deal on Monk (give up bonus feats at 2/6 for same benefits), with Vow of Poverty. Gets me the image my DM and I discussed, with Dungeoncrasher... it'll just take some interesting cajoling to get him to agree. Six levels of Monk, and I can alignment-change to Neutral Good, take four Barbarian, leaving ten more for whatever the hell else I want to take, be it Warhulk or something else entirely.

BobVosh
2009-06-24, 04:51 AM
Anyone have the link for the salmon that could actually swim up a waterfall?

Anyway. I still think you should be halfogre half-glass golem (maybe the werid stained glass ones?) dungeoncrasher/war hulk/frenzy beserker. However I am not going to look up the info as other builds here are going to be superior.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-24, 05:22 AM
Ogre with Lolthtouched and Spellwarped.

Take 1 level of monk and specialise in using your fists to crush things.
Then take Barbarian and the slew of extremely useful feats for breaking things.

Ogre 6/Lolth touched 1/Spellwarped 3 gets you to level 10 without LA buy back.
But you have 6 levels of LA and can buy back a couple.

Assume you did that on the Spellwarped for simplicity.

So Ogre 6/Lolth touched 1/Spellwarped 1

Gives you +20 STR, +0 DEX, +14 CON, +0 INT, WIS +0, CHA -4
You have 2 feats from Ogre levels.
Weapon Focus (unarmed Combat)
Something else useful that I cannot think of...

Then take 1 level of Monk and chose Improved Grapple. (also get the free Improved Unarmed combat)
Then Take 1 level of Barbarian. Wolf totem Barbarian. Lose everything but the Rage but gain Improved Trip.

That makes you level 10 and nasty with fists and moderately capable of breaking things.
For your next feat take Destructive Rage.

That is how I'd do it anyway.
You could swap Spellwarped for Half Dragon, but then you would not get the option to gain another +4 STR if you are targetted by a spell. lol.
And you would not have the +4 INT either. ;)

Dungeoncrasher rocks for you btw.

nysisobli
2009-06-24, 06:07 AM
if im not mistaken i think that the half giant in psionics handbook qualifies as being large.

Person_Man
2009-06-24, 09:13 AM
if im not mistaken i think that the half giant in psionics handbook qualifies as being large.

By RAW, that is incorrect. The Half-Giant (www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm) and Goliath (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040711b&page=5) have Powerful Build:



Powerful Build (Ex)

The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

You are treated as one size larger for opposed checks, special attacks, and ability to wield weapons. It says nothing about feats or prestige classes.

Now, in Races of Stone there are several feats that state that Powerful Build = Large for the purpose of qualifying for those feats. For example, Knockback says: "Prerequisites: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, size Large or larger (goliaths qualify by virtue of their powerful build racial trait)." But nowhere in the text of the Powerful Build ability, or in the text of prestige classes that require Large size, does it say that Powerful Build = Large for the purposes of qualifying for prestige classes.

Quietus
2009-06-24, 12:27 PM
Ogre with Lolthtouched and Spellwarped.

Take 1 level of monk and specialise in using your fists to crush things.
Then take Barbarian and the slew of extremely useful feats for breaking things.

Ogre 6/Lolth touched 1/Spellwarped 3 gets you to level 10 without LA buy back.
But you have 6 levels of LA and can buy back a couple.

Assume you did that on the Spellwarped for simplicity.

So Ogre 6/Lolth touched 1/Spellwarped 1

Gives you +20 STR, +0 DEX, +14 CON, +0 INT, WIS +0, CHA -4
You have 2 feats from Ogre levels.
Weapon Focus (unarmed Combat)
Something else useful that I cannot think of...

Then take 1 level of Monk and chose Improved Grapple. (also get the free Improved Unarmed combat)
Then Take 1 level of Barbarian. Wolf totem Barbarian. Lose everything but the Rage but gain Improved Trip.

That makes you level 10 and nasty with fists and moderately capable of breaking things.
For your next feat take Destructive Rage.

That is how I'd do it anyway.
You could swap Spellwarped for Half Dragon, but then you would not get the option to gain another +4 STR if you are targetted by a spell. lol.
And you would not have the +4 INT either. ;)

Dungeoncrasher rocks for you btw.

The trouble here is that your way, I'm spending six levels of LA to get +10 to break things, and can't buy off any LA at all until 18 HD - at which point we're already in Epic, because I'm ECL 24. Going with an LA+1 race and six levels of Fighter, however, gives me +6 BAB, 6d8+6xcon HP, two feats, Dungeoncrasher (which gives me the same +10 to break things as the templates did, plus more)... and that LA can be bought off at third hit die.



At any rate, I've spoken with my DM, and we've worked out how I can build this character should I need to replace my Druid at some point. Spoilering it to keep this from being a wall of text :


Race : Half-ogre (Savage Species version); +6 strength, Large size, +1 LA, other stats
Classes : Dungeoncrasher Monk 6 (He's letting me swap the level 2/6 monk feats instead of going Fighter, for the sake of the hilarity of the character)/Barbarian4/War Hulk10
Feats : Slow reflexes (Flaw), Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Power Attack, Cleave, Destructive Rage - I should be able to get all those by level 9. I may try getting another Flaw to pick up Improved Bull Rush before level 12, depending.

Basic rundown at level 9, when the last piece of the puzzle falls into place : 7 BAB (Build caps at 8), 28 strength (32 when raging), +19 to break things normally (+29 when raging), 2 rages/day, unarmed strikes 2d6+str+1 (exalted strike), +24 grapple (26 in rage), +13 bull rush (17 with an extra flaw, 19 when raging, 8d6+27/33 damage from dungeoncrasher), flurry of blows at -1 penalty. 26 AC (24 when raging)

At these levels, I can break through standard masonry walls 75% of the time when raging, and never fail to break through iron under those same circumstances. Even when not raging, I have a 25% chance to break masonry, and 50% chance to break iron. I can Bull Rush three times in a round thanks to Flurry of Blows, or do 2d6+10 as unarmed strikes or grapples.

At level 20, I'm packing 61 strength when raging. I have +43 to strength checks to break down walls; I can smash hewn stone on a 7. Only a five-foot-thick wall of unworked stone is safe from my smashy wrath. I dungeoncrash for 8d6+75 (with a +33 bonus to my Bull Rush mod). I can throw rocks around if I like. And with every attack I make, I can target three adjacent squares, with each of my three attacks. This means I can do a flurry of unarmed strikes, bull rushing with each, each attack action hitting up to three adjacent targets for full potential dungeoncrash damage.

OH YEAH!


It may not be to the full theoretical potential - I'm sure SOMEONE out there could utterly break this. But it's still at the high end of my group's optimization, and best of all, has ended up with exactly the result I wanted. So, thanks everyone, this has turned out excellent! Cookies for all!

VirOath
2009-06-25, 12:08 AM
I think it was skipped over, but a Portable Ram provides a +2 bonus to Strength Checks for Breaking Down a Door, and allows another person to aid you for another +2.

Zemro
2009-06-25, 01:17 AM
I don't believe it's been mentioned but the Character Class: Dead Levels (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) article on the Wizards site has an entry for the fighter class. It's an interesting article, but the ability you'd want to be looking at is called "Applied Force." If you're taking fighter levels in a build this could be a nice boost to that break check.


Applied Force (Ex): A fighter can administer force to the weakest points of inanimate objects effectively, giving the character a +1 bonus on Strength checks to break or burst items (see page 165 of the Player's Handbook).