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View Full Version : A "Fix" for Wildshape



kjones
2009-06-23, 08:30 PM
This isn't a serious attempt to balance Wildshape - it was just an idea that I had that I thought someone might find interesting.

I was discussing an old love of mine (the Animorphs series) with a friend of mine, and we noted the similarities between morphing and Wildshape. Now, in the Animorphs series, if someone with the morphing power wants to morph into a certain form, they first must "acquire" the DNA of that animal by touching an animal of that type for about a round. While acquiring an animal's DNA, the animal is calmed, so there's less danger involved, though you still have to get close enough

I realized that this would be pretty simple to introduce as a D&D mechanic for druids, and it would help counteract one of the most broken things about Wildshape - namely, that you can Wildshape into pretty much whatever you want. (You might have to make a Knowledge: Nature check, which, aside from being boring, is silly and metagame-y - "I roll the dice to see if I know about bears".) Besides, it would give druids some interesting role-playing encounters, and a chance to use their Wild Empathy skills. It gives druids a good excuse to travel with a party - they're looking for new morphs to acquire - and it gives the whole party a reason not to look at animals as enemies or sources of XP.

Now, before you all go jumping down my throats as to how Wildshape is inherently broken, or how it's silly to balance a mechanical problem with a role-playing restriction - like I said, this isn't a serious attempt to fix druids. It just seems like a very druid-y thing to do, to go out and touch animals. (Well, when I put it that way, it doesn't sound so good...)

SSGoW
2009-06-23, 08:37 PM
i like this idea of course to help it from being to broken you could implement that the druid can only keep so many types of animals and/or they can only hold onto that wildshape ability for that animal for so long then they loose the DNA

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-23, 08:38 PM
Of course, this means that you have to be careful about what animals you send against the party from now on...

SSGoW
2009-06-23, 08:42 PM
well yes but you had that problem to begin with since after they see it they know about them

make it where they can only do this with natural animals/beasts or somthing like that

Hat-Trick
2009-06-23, 08:45 PM
You'd have to ask what climate/terrain the druid is familiar with, first. From there, you can bar almost anything not found in that climate/terrain. From there, you'd have to make them make a list of how many animals they are familiar with to the point of knowing the DNA pattern. Limiting the number is a great boon as well. Maybe half druid level=amount of alternate forms or something.

Interesting concept, and it makes the druid jump through hoops to get anything good. I haven't heard of that series in forever.

Leon
2009-06-23, 10:46 PM
Two easy ways to control it

1. Ban Natural Spell
2. Limit the Forms to Something that the Druid has seen in person and had experience with (i.e a Druid from Tundra isn't going to know what a Tropical Rain forest type animal is like)

Expounding on point 2
Want to be a Bear, go spend time with some and get a feel for the life they live and things they do (preferably without being mauled or such)

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-23, 10:49 PM
An internship at the local zoo would be in order for druids, I imagine.

Malicte
2009-06-23, 10:49 PM
1. Ban Natural Spell

This.

But yes, it's perfectly reasonable to limit a druid to forms they might be familiar with based on climate. Better to ask them for their native climate, come up with a list working with them, and go from there. "You say you're from the cold, frozen North? Well I don't think Fleshrakers can survive up there. How do you know about them?"

kjones
2009-06-23, 10:55 PM
One of the other things that I like about this idea is that it gives the druid incentive to treat nature well - sure, if the druid ceases to "revere nature", they lose their druidic abilities, but you'd have to be a pretty cruel DM (or a really lousy player) to have this come up. But you'll be hard-pressed to cozy up to animals if you're just paying lip service to Mother Nature.

I hadn't thought about limiting the total number of forms - that's a very good idea. I would probably limit it to druid levels. Half seems a little harsh.

The problem with this sort of thing is that the enterprising player will grab a bunch of necklaces of adaptation and a bag of holding and host their own portable menagerie - whether or not this is a bad thing is entirely a matter of perspective.

I'm also not sure how this would interact with your animal companion. Could you absorb the DNA of your animal companion? If so, and you wanted to be a jerk, you could just keep calling new ones to get new forms.

What if the druid class didn't have an animal companion, and had this somewhat nerfed version of Wildshape? Would that be reasonable?

(What if you lifted the limits on what you could Wildshape into - that way, if you can touch it, you're good? That would be kind of cool, if potentially overpowering.)

EDIT: Of course, you'd still be limited to animals - I meant the size restriction.

EDIT 2: Leon, Malicte, this isn't really about balancing druids - I don't allow core druids in my games anyways. I know there are lots of ways to balance druids that don't involve stealing ideas from Animorphs - I'm not interested in those.

SSGoW
2009-06-23, 11:26 PM
make the penalty for loosing your animal companion on purpose or through malicious means (even for evil druids they still hold nature in high regards so if they just throw away something from nature they are going against their diety) if the druid makes the animal companion do somthing that they themselves would not do that can be counted as that?

basically disrespect nature and a God comes down and pistol err wooden pistol wips you...

anyways

how about a druid can only absorb the DNA of [Con mod + 1/2 level animals] (number of different DNA one can hold) then make it for a time periode of [Wis mod + 1/2 level hours a day] ?
that way it shows that you have to have the constitution to absorb and keep the DNA in you and your wisdom shows how long you are able to hold the form (thus making druids dependent on Con for more than HP and they wont be able to just wildshape into something with a high con)

sonofzeal
2009-06-23, 11:36 PM
I think the top way to improve it all is to prohibit the wearing of any items while in animal form as part of Druid oaths. That alone will do wonders for bringing it back into line. You still have Fleshraker + Venomfire, but honestly that's just one combination and easy to crack down on.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-23, 11:46 PM
I think the top way to improve it all is to prohibit the wearing of any items while in animal form as part of Druid oaths. That alone will do wonders for bringing it back into line. You still have Fleshraker + Venomfire, but honestly that's just one combination and easy to crack down on.Any Druid that uses Venomfire deserves to be forced to play a straight Fighter until they understand how to optimize without broken material. The spell is broken without Fleshraker ever entering the picture.

SSGoW
2009-06-23, 11:49 PM
this aint about balancing the curent druid though

Myrmex
2009-06-24, 12:21 AM
An internship at the local zoo would be in order for druids, I imagine.

The difference between an animal in the zoo and an animal in the wild is enormous.

I would say that Knowledge:Nature is not enough to let a druid wildshape into whatever they please.

You may have heard of a porcupine, but are you familiar with the feeling of the tiny barbs on their quills causing them to work deeper into your flesh?

SSGoW
2009-06-24, 12:26 AM
you can touch porcupines (in the right way and if they aint pissed or scared at you) without getting hurt....

Myrmex
2009-06-24, 12:28 AM
you can touch porcupines (in the right way and if they aint pissed or scared at you) without getting hurt....

There's a difference between knowing something and knowing something. You can read about snow all you like, but you'll never quite know what it's like until you experience it for real.

That's the point I was trying to make.

SSGoW
2009-06-24, 12:37 AM
although they can now "poke" your brain and even though you have never smelled a strawberry you will smell strawberries :p

anyways my point (lol) is that there is always a way to find out trial and error also an animorph druid could pass a concentration check and still get the dna also they could just kill it and then get the dna

Khanderas
2009-06-24, 01:29 AM
An internship at the local zoo would be in order for druids, I imagine.
"So why do you want to work here ?"
"I want to touch all the animals in here. For the glory and splendor of Mother nature."
"... OOooo kaay. We'll be in touch. Dont call us, we call you."

sofawall
2009-06-24, 01:43 AM
2. Limit the Forms to Something that the Druid has seen in person and had experience with (i.e a Druid from Tundra isn't going to know what a Tropical Rain forest type animal is like)

Expounding on point 2
Want to be a Bear, go spend time with some and get a feel for the life they live and things they do (preferably without being mauled or such)

Small question...

Did you even read anything but the title? I don't think you did. In fact, don't even answer, unless it's to say "Yes, you're right, I only read the title" because I don't like being lied to.


Seriously, at least read the OP. The thread isn't even a page long yet, so why not read the whole thread.

Leon
2009-06-24, 01:45 AM
EDIT 2: Leon, Malicte, this isn't really about balancing druids - I don't allow core druids in my games anyways. I know there are lots of ways to balance druids that don't involve stealing ideas from Animorphs - I'm not interested in those.

Ah, fair enough then.
Saw the title and went for the solution without giving the opening post a full read to see what you were on about.



I hadn't thought about limiting the total number of forms - that's a very good idea. I would probably limit it to druid levels. Half seems a little harsh.


Half Shape (kinda like Hybrid Lycanthropes) maybe
take on some of the aspects and a look of the creature while not getting the full package for a duration until you fully integrate the form (had the wrong section quoted)






-------------------------------------------


Small question...

Did you even read anything but the title? I don't think you did. In fact, don't even answer, unless it's to say "Yes, you're right, I only read the title" because I don't like being lied to.
Seriously, at least read the OP. The thread isn't even a page long yet, so why not read the whole thread.

QQ - No idea what your problem is but its not my worry.
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