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Cyanic
2009-06-24, 09:29 AM
:smalleek: I am going to be playing in a friend's 3.5 custom world campaign soon and being the guy who is known to break the crud outta chars. (read optimize well) I am being limited to the PHB1, DMG1, and MM1 ONLY with no erratas and/or web-enhancements to make and equip my character with undeclared line item vetos on custom magic items and some spells (he is gonna do it on the spot so I don't get a list in advance). Considering this I have decided to play a :smallbiggrin: DRUID :smallbiggrin: and I need some help making it as laughably powerful and yet completely unarguably legitimate based on only the above three books.

So what tricks/loadouts can I use to piss him off and get myself reduced to even less material in the future ? :smallamused:

Malacode
2009-06-24, 09:35 AM
Wolf companions are pretty solid. Their Trip attacks are -nasty-, but give the poor thing a dex/str booster (I don't remember if they use Dex or Str for trip). Use the wolf to keep things down while you spam AoE crowd control effects, and let the party do all the HP damage.

arkol
2009-06-24, 09:40 AM
A riding dog trained for way is, in every way superior to a wolf.

There's not much to do to really break a druid, even with core only. Be a human, take spell focus conjuration, augmented summoning, extend spell and natural spell. That's should be your feat selection for up to level 6.

Buy your animal companion some masterwork leather armor (it's not much but it helps and it's cheap).

You should read Man In BlLack's Druid Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=733400). Sure the guide has a lot of books in mind, but it also helps you find what's good in core.

kladams707
2009-06-24, 09:41 AM
Advice: Play a druid.

kamikasei
2009-06-24, 09:41 AM
A wolf or riding dog animal companion, a bunch of summons, judicous use of self-buffs shared with your companion, buffs on the summons, and battlefield control spells to hamper the enemies, will go a long way towards messing up most encounters.

Oh yeah, and don't be a jerk, which seeking to work around the DM's rulings to break the game pretty much amounts to.

Malacode
2009-06-24, 09:42 AM
Woah, I totally missed the Dogs can Trip! I'm remembering that for the future... Thanks Arkol.

Cyanic
2009-06-24, 09:48 AM
Oh yeah, and don't be a jerk, which seeking to work around the DM's rulings to break the game pretty much amounts to.

It was more of a challenge on me then anything, he is expecting something powerful still.

kamikasei
2009-06-24, 09:56 AM
It was more of a challenge on me then anything, he is expecting something powerful still.

Oh, well if it's all in good fun that's okay.

Unfortunately the real cheese for druids is in the MM3 (Fleshrakers) and in getting animals/spells from all over the shop, but they're still plenty broken in core. Problem is they're broken in fairly obvious and straightforward ways, not intricate and hilarious ones like wizards. Become something big and nasty, have something big and nasty to hand, summon a few big nasty things, use spells to make them bigger and nastier, and then rip things' faces off.

woodenbandman
2009-06-24, 10:40 AM
Hmm... There are a few items for druids in core. I seem to remember something about druid's vestments.

Also, you may consider a monk belt, or actually taking a level of monk. If you don't take the monk level, teach your animal companion (one with hands) to put a monk's belt on you, and wear Wild armor.

That alone should be broken enough for ya. Oh and spam shapechange.

Eldariel
2009-06-24, 10:42 AM
Get Riding Dog trained for war, and the best Bardings you can get; War-trained Riding Dogs are proficient in armor. You should start with Studded Leather Barding and work your way up from there. On level 4, you can switch out to Dire Bat, which makes for a great mount, a great combatant and effectively enables you flight as first character out of the whole bunch (it's Large and thus a medium Druid can ride it).

Level 7, you can already fly on your own power sufficiently between 3 Wildshape-uses and Air Walk, so you can again switch out, to Brown Bear (grappler), Rhinoceros (one big wham) or Tiger (charger); Bear is probably the toughest out of the bunch thanks to 27 Str. Then on 10, either take the level-ups like a man or pick a Dire Lion if you had a Tiger. On 13, there's only one rational option in the Dire Bear and on 16, the Dire Tiger. As the list gets smaller, the choice gets easier.


As for equipping them, start out with standard Bardings and once you move up, you'll also notice that you start to use ACs not proficient in armor. Instead of burning one of their feats on armor proficiency, use Mw. Studded Leather Bardings, and eventually Mithril Chain Shirt Bardings to sidestep the need for proficiency. Then equip them with stat boosters as you can, along with Animated Shield if possible, and profit. As a Druid doesn't really require much equipment, you should be able to afford this.

Also, don't forget to pimp them out with spells. Greater Magic Fang should be cast on them at all times as soon as you can; before level 8, you cast a single casting of Greater Magic Fang to cover all their weapons for +1, and post-level 8, you cast it multiple teams, separately on each of their natural weapons. This effectively matches the enhancement your other combatants have; use Extend if you can't make 'em last long enough otherwise. Also, Extended Barkskins are great; screw Amulets of Natural Armor. Cooperate with other casters for Magic Vestment on all pieces of armor in your disposal, as appropriate. Also, Mage Armor is a solid choice for some levels; see if your Wizard could spare some.

Once you can acquire them, get Beads of Karma (from Strand of Prayer Beads), if necessary, buying the whole Standard Beads and picking up Craft Wondrous Items if the world doesn't have stuff for sale. Use this during your buffing session to always effectively get +1 higher bonus from your Greater Magic Fang up to 20-hour +5 Greater Magic Fangs on level 15 (by then you'll also have Orange Prism Ioun Stone, which grants an extra caster level).


For your own defense, you have two options, which depending on DM might even work together:
-Wild Dragonhide Full-Plate/Breastplate (by strict reading of the "Wild"-enhancement, you don't suffer any of the penalties but retain the AC bonus while Wildshaping, so you could wear a Full-Plate even though you're not proficient in it)
-Monk's Belt (you can have your pals put it on you once you've Wildshaped, thus avoiding the whole "melds into you"-problem)

By strict reading of the rules, you could benefit of Monk's Belt at the same time as you get the AC bonus from the melded Wild armor. This might go against most DMs' sense of fairness though; indeed, as long as you max out Wisdom, your Monk's Belt should be more than sufficient. Other items you need are really only Wis, Con, Dex and maybe Str-boosters, depending on how much you want to rely on your buffs vs. items for your combat bonuses. Oh, and Beads of Karma & Ioun Stone. Druid's Vestment can be handy if you fear you'll run out of Wildshape-uses. It's of lower priority though.


And your feats should contain:
Extend Spell, Quicken Spell (on level 12, when you have the slots to start utilizing this), Natural Spell and probably Augment Summoning. Other than that, Crafts kick ass, especially Craft Wondrous Items. You could Craft all the stuff you need saving a crapton of money and ensuring availability.

Stats:
Wis should be as high as possible; solid idea to start Middle-Aged for the +1.
Con should be secondary. If you start from level 1, put some points in Dex too, and rest in Int and Cha as you see fit; you can make for a fine skill monkey too, and you have among others Diplomacy and Wild Empathy so you can use high Cha should you so desire.

Skills:
Max out Concentration, Knowledge (Nature), Spot, Listen and some ranks in Handle Animal (so you can make the AC training checks by taking 10), then what you want/can out of Spellcraft, Diplomacy and cross-class skills (anything Wisdom-based is good for you since you'll have massive Wis; Sense Motive, for example, is fine for your mantle; 5 ranks in Balance to avoid being flat-footed while Balancing, or few ranks in Tumble for example would work out just fine). Oh, and Ride is a solid skill to max out too.


Then uhh, pick spells smart (Entangle kicks ass level 1, as long as the environment can support it), learn what you can summon and what they can do (don't forget Aid Another and webs, and Unicorns for healbots), and buff them as necessary (Animal Growth is sick). Other than that, yeah, have fun, enjoy being the most broken class in the game.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-24, 11:06 AM
Upon getting Wild Shape and the requirements, PrC into Planar Shepard. No Druid PrC is more broken than this one. Faiths of Eberron. You want broken druid, you got broken druid.

AstralFire
2009-06-24, 11:08 AM
Upon getting Wild Shape and the requirements, PrC into Planar Shepard. No Druid PrC is more broken than this one. Faiths of Eberron. You want broken druid, you got broken druid.

Core only.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-24, 11:14 AM
Core only.

Wow, that went right over my head.


+1 to Natural Spell suggestions then.

Telonius
2009-06-24, 11:19 AM
Need Help Breaking a Druid

First, open up your PHB.

That should about do it. :smallbiggrin:

Slightly more seriously, Druids can be kind of frail for the first five levels. Take Natural Spell at 6th. I'd recommend either Gnome or Human as your race.

Keld Denar
2009-06-24, 11:31 AM
As far as summoning, Hipogryphs pretty much rule the roost for the better part of the first 6-7 levels. You get 1 at level 3, 1d3 at level 5, and 1d4+1 at level 7. These puppies are awesome, and with Augemented Summoning (core feat), they are pretty fierce. DR foes will give you some worries, but you can always use them as meat shields/flanking buddies/aid another boosters. Past that, elementals come into power, with Earth and Air being the best choices. Bigger is better.

Yea, beyond that...Druid20
1 SF Conjouration
H Augemented Summoning
3 Extend Spell
6 Natural Spell
9 Skill Focus: Craft(Basketweaving)
12 Skill Focus: Knowledge(Useless Trivia)
15 Skill Focus: Profession(Town Drunk)
18 Skill Focus: Perform(Sea Chanty)

And that should pretty much do it. Maybe swap Quicken Spell for one of those Skill Focuses, but that might overpower you a bit too far.

As far as skills, keep Concentration, Spot, and Listen maxed out. Other than that, things like Know:Nature and Spellcraft are ok, but not vital.

Myrmex
2009-06-24, 11:59 AM
Get a buffalo/bison as soon as you can, since they will, at one point, have more HD than anyone in your party.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-24, 12:09 PM
Yea, beyond that...Druid20
1 SF Conjouration
H Augemented Summoning
3 Extend Spell
6 Natural Spell
9 Skill Focus: Craft(Basketweaving)
12 Skill Focus: Knowledge(Useless Trivia)
15 Skill Focus: Profession(Town Drunk)
18 Skill Focus: Perform(Sea Chanty)


No mention of basket weaving?

Ganurath
2009-06-24, 12:13 PM
Maximized Quill Blast. The number of needles is based on a variable roll, as is the damage per needle. Use Sudden Maximize if you aren't a high enough level to Maximize is normally. I suggest Eschew Material Components so you can still use it in Wild Shape.

Wait, Core Only. Nevermind then. Still, something of note for other aspiring Druids.

That being said, Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, and Extend Spell are the way to go.

Keld Denar
2009-06-24, 12:25 PM
No mention of basket weaving?

Do what? Skill Focus: Basketweaving right there at level 9. Unlocking the real ultimate power of the basket is part of the key to this build. As a Druid Basketweaver, you can weave picnic baskets, wildshape into a bear, and swap them for full picnic baskets with tourists when they aren't looking. Its finesse, and it works!

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-24, 12:27 PM
I mean... sandwich making.

Keld Denar
2009-06-24, 12:37 PM
Sandwich making is only optimized if you have enough levels in Psion (Telepath) to manifest True Mindswitch to become 1 with the sandwich. Otherwise, its generally considered more optimal to steal the sandwich, using the tactic explained above.

Plus, stolen food tastes better!

Ganurath
2009-06-24, 01:10 PM
Ah, but if you're consistently stealing food, that's constant lawbreaking and maliciousness toward the proper owners of the food. That would lead the Druid to Chaotic Evil, thus robbing them of all their broken abilities!

OverdrivePrime
2009-06-24, 01:21 PM
Dear Keld Denar,

Congratulations, you have won Wednesday June 24th! As your reward, please accept my enduring appreciation and a theoretical picnic basket full of awesome.

High-fives and air guitars,
-ODP

kladams707
2009-06-24, 01:23 PM
Do what? Skill Focus: Basketweaving right there at level 9. Unlocking the real ultimate power of the basket is part of the key to this build. As a Druid Basketweaver, you can weave picnic baskets, wildshape into a bear, and swap them for full picnic baskets with tourists when they aren't looking. Its finesse, and it works!

Hmmm, basketweaving druid. All that's left is to put some ranks into disguise...

Keld Denar
2009-06-24, 01:48 PM
Dear Keld Denar,

Congratulations, you have won Wednesday June 24th! As your reward, please accept my enduring appreciation and a theoretical picnic basket full of awesome.

High-fives and air guitars,
-ODP

Alas, I can't claim full credit. Basketweaving was optimized over on the CharOp boards long ago by DictumMortum (who has a handbook about everything, including Basketweaving and Handbook Making).

I'm mearly perpetuating the silliness inherant in the fact that druids get 4 more feats than they really need...