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graymachine
2009-06-24, 10:56 AM
So, in the last year or so my opinion of the bard class has swung from immediately dismissive to the opposite side of the spectrum. This isn't because I've been playing one, but mostly arises from hypothetical discussion with others in the group. Glibness and the fun of super-lying, for example. Therefore I'm thinking of playing one when the next opportunity comes up, but frankly I have little idea of how to optimize a bard and just how far I can take one. What are some efficient bard builds that playgrounders have come up with?

The thread is also meant to be a general bard efficiency discussion.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-24, 11:11 AM
By glibness I assume you mean 3.5?

Keld Denar
2009-06-24, 11:17 AM
Typical optimized caster/song focused bards tend to follow either:

Bard5/Mindbender1/Lyric3/Virt1/SubChord2/Virt+8

or

Bard6/Lyric3/Virt1/SubChord2/Virt8

The Minbender dip sets you a little back on music, but opens up the absurdedly fun Mindsight feat from Lords of Madness. It also makes you non-good, although alignment restrictions are dumb and should be burned in effigy.

Typical feats include Song of the Heart (ECS), Melodic Casting (CMage), Lyric Spell (CAdv?) and Metamagic Song (CArcane?). Extra Music is ok at low levels if you can retrain, or if you plan on using MM Song or Lyric Spell a lot.

Other good bard builds include Bardblade and Bardsader, typically involving 4 levels of Bard combined with N levels of Warblade or Crusader (or BOTH!) stacked on top with a side of Song of the White Raven to stack them all together with respect to Inspire Courage.

Regardless of build, Inspire Courage is one of your strongest class features. Maximize it. There are numerous things you can do to increase it. Song of the Heart (feat, ECS), Inspirational Boost (Brd1 spell, SpC), Badge of Valor (item, MIC), MW Instruments (item, CAdv?), Vest of Legends (item, DMGII), and of cource, Words of Creation (feat, BoED). I'm not really a fan of Words, due to the fact that its an Exalted feat with all of the roleplaying handcuffs that places on you and the crappy wisdom requirements. Its a pretty big boost though, depending on where you place the multiplier in the order of operations...

There is also Dragonfire Inspiration in Dragon Magic. It converts your +x/+x Inspire Courage into +xd6 fire damage. This gets scary silly. It does require the Dragonblooded subtype though, which can be aquired via the Dragonblooded subraces in Dragon Magic, or by taking the Draconic template. It defaults to fire, but you can change the flavor of it if you have the Draconic Heritage feat (requires Sorc1) or are a Half Dragon. Both are pretty crappy requirements, as they detract from your "bardiness".

So...what do you want your Bard to do?

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-24, 11:20 AM
Then there's the Bardadin; Bard/Paladin, Devoted Performed (CAdv) or Paladin of Freedom (UA), Divine Might (CWar), Initiate of Milil (CoV), maybe Song to Smite (CoV), and Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn)... going into Seeker of the Song (CAdv or CAr, I forget), IIRC.

AstralFire
2009-06-24, 11:23 AM
For a weakly optimized bard that's flexible and fun, just:

- Grab Words of Creation from the Book of Exalted Deeds
- Arcane Strike from Complete Warrior
- The Spell Compendium
- Snowflake Wardance from Frostburn

Tada, poor man's gish with some amazing buffs that does decent damage in combat. Often grabs TWF.

graymachine
2009-06-24, 11:43 AM
Well, I had the brief idea of Bard/Wiz into Ultimate Magus, but this seems like it would be extremely underpowered. Or am I wrong?

Draz74
2009-06-24, 11:57 AM
I don't know if anything with "full Wizard spellcasting minus one level" can be described as "underpowered."

But it's certainly not the strongest Ultimate Magus build on the block. (That would be Wizard/Beguiler, for the record.)

Keld Denar
2009-06-24, 11:59 AM
It requires a little shananigans to not be underpowered. Since Bard doesn't offer 1st level spells until level 2, you'd get in, I'd assume, as either a Wiz3/Bard2 or Wiz4/Bard1 (with Versatile Spellcaster). Regardless, your Inspire Courage would suck, and Bardic spellcasting, while OK for a Bard, is rather lackluster as a UM comboer. Better UM would be Beguiler1/Wizard4, which has remarkably similar flavor to a Bard/Wiz/UM and is mechanically MUCH stronger, especially as levels progress to about 12.

If you don't mind being a late-bloomer build, though, you can use UM with Sublime Chord casting, which is EXCELLENT. Something like a Bard1/Paladin2/Wizard5/UM2/SC2/UM+8 (again, Versatile Spellcaster) would be VERY strong come level 12-13, but suffer pretty badly through its 4-10 level range.