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View Full Version : [3.5] Negative Result on Skill Checks



AdmiralCheez
2009-06-24, 11:48 AM
What exactly happens in the case of a negative skill check? It should definitely count as a failure, but how much of a failure?

Take a swim check for example. This recently happened to one of my characters. While sailing across rough seas, he was washed off the side of the boat while wearing half-plate armor. On a roll of a natural 5, combined with double the armor check penalty for a -14, 0 ranks and a +1 strength bonus, the swim check came out to a total of -8.

The DM simply ruled that he sank really fast, and would drown a lot sooner.


How would you describe / handle a massive failure such as this?

woodenbandman
2009-06-24, 11:57 AM
There are some tasks with negative DCs. Spotting a large object in plain sight, for example. I'd say that if you fail the DC, you fail. Just fail.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-24, 11:58 AM
It's a failure (assuming it didn't hit the DC; I suppose you can theoretically get negative check DCs, unless there's some bit in the books that says "minimum 0!" or somesuch). There's no such thing as critical failures in D&D 3.X. If the DM wants something special to happen, that's up to the DM, although I would usually think rolling a 5 against DC 50 would be a bigger deal than rolling -10 against DC 10 - that is, it's the difference, not the result.

Trouvere
2009-06-24, 12:04 PM
It's only really embarassing when it happens on a Jump check.

kamikasei
2009-06-24, 12:23 PM
As Tsotha-lanti says, what's important isn't the absolute value of the result and whether it happens to be negative, but by how wide a margin the result missed the target. That's assuming it matters at all beyond "well, you failed at whatever you were attempting".

jcsw
2009-06-24, 12:28 PM
It's only really embarassing when it happens on a Jump check.

You could try to optimize your jump checks the other way! Now whenever you wanna jump anywhere you aim in the opposite direction...

Wear Mountain Plate without proficiency! Your speed is now 10ft, granting you a -8, you take twice the armor check penalty, granting another -18....

Clementx
2009-06-24, 12:29 PM
Skills list what happens when you fail them by a specific amount. Getting negative check results just lets you suffer them more often on easy tasks.

Siosilvar
2009-06-24, 12:32 PM
You could try to optimize your jump checks the other way! Now whenever you wanna jump anywhere you aim in the opposite direction...

Wear Mountain Plate without proficiency! Your speed is now 10ft, granting you a -8, you take twice the armor check penalty, granting another -18....

You'd also have to figure out how to jump down, into the ground.

Although wearing insanely heavy armor without knowing how to use it somehow giving you antigravity would be funny.

Gnorman
2009-06-24, 04:16 PM
You'd also have to figure out how to jump down, into the ground.

Although wearing insanely heavy armor without knowing how to use it somehow giving you antigravity would be funny.

It's easy. Just throw yourself at the ground... and miss. Given your insane penalty, it should be a foregone conclusion.

Deth Muncher
2009-06-24, 04:23 PM
It's easy. Just throw yourself at the ground... and miss. Given your insane penalty, it should be a foregone conclusion.

Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, anyone?

dspeyer
2009-06-24, 08:51 PM
I recall a campaign where a couple of melee characters fought a room full of animated furniture. With no spellcasters available, they weren't sure if they'd defeated the rugs or not. They had, but to prevent metagaming, the DM requested some balance checks. The fighter had no ranks, low dex and heavy armor. He rolled low and got a negative result. The DM declared that he tripped over his own feet. They then proceeded to blame the rug and whack it a lot more.

In retrospect, walking on a floor requiring a DC 0 balance check would be a terrible idea, but in this one case it was funny.

SSGoW
2009-06-24, 09:54 PM
wait... if your character fails a swim check (and is not wearing metal armor) shouldn't the character float anyways? then the character could just move their arms to move somewhere... humans atleast naturally float (not sure about other races but atleast halfelf would to)

wizuriel
2009-06-24, 10:07 PM
It's only really embarassing when it happens on a Jump check.

was playing in a campaign once and playing a very weak overweight druid halfling. Anyways was in the dungeon and we found the prisoner tied up in a chair on a greased ledge that was wobbling back and forth (the prisoner was some insane monk and was able to keep balancing on this ledge). So the bridge that connected the door to the ledge was destroyed and below us looked like freezing cold water with something inside. So end up throwing some rope with true strike to wrap around the chair and went to pull her to safety. As the chair comes speeding towards us the DM called for a jump check to safely get out of the way. My character went to bend his knees; and than proceeded to fall over backwards and lose his balance to tumble into the water :D

Zeful
2009-06-24, 10:55 PM
wait... if your character fails a swim check (and is not wearing metal armor) shouldn't the character float anyways? then the character could just move their arms to move somewhere... humans atleast naturally float (not sure about other races but atleast halfelf would to)

Nope, you sink. I'm pretty sure treading water is a DC 10 check.

SSGoW
2009-06-24, 11:09 PM
treading water is not floating though (like on your back) humans even with extra weight of some things can float on their backs (the weight being from other sources not from fat ... which would make floating even easier) so to say that you need a skill check to float is odd... specially for someone who is an adventurer (gah my spelling sucks) who should have learned to atleast float

maybe making floating a DC of 2 would sufice as long as you are not burden by a load and not wearing anything above hide armor. this DC would als reflect the small percentage of people who simply cannot float... while floating you can only move along with the current's speed or 5ft per round (or somthing like that)... the roll will not be a str check or anything like that since its just a persons natural ability to be less dense then water (yay for lungs ... and being made mostly of water :p )

TheThan
2009-06-24, 11:18 PM
Well there is no automatic failure in 3.5 but you probably fail anyway. Miserably I might add.

Unless you acctually make the DC, I’ve seen it happen

DM(me)
“You take –20 to your hide check for your ranged sneak attack”

Rogue
“Ok I have a +20 to my roll, so I’ll just have to take what I roll”.

DM (me again)
“Roll them bones”

Rogue:
Rolls dice

DM
Rolls dice… checks results,
“Apparently your so stealthy that you are able to disappear, after your ranged sneak attack hits the ogre.”