Burning the report: forget right or wrong, that was just foolish

[Alex Warlorn]

I don't care if it was good or evil for that report to go up in smoke. What I DO care about is that Roy is now going to be in the dark about one of his allies OWEING the forces of darkness A Favor and we KNOW how things work out when the forces of darkness are owed A Favor!

It's been said before that it was never precisely said by anyone but V that the use of his soul would be after his death: which means V has given the Three Fiend Alliance one hour collectively of his body on the prime material plane... LIKELY just when they're near a functional gate!

There's no way that the old man could EVER have that low a wisdom score! He must realize the loophole the three fiends are going to exploit even if V doesn't! He's letting A MOLE walk among his only one of two chances to get freed from that stupid blood oath! THAT, IS, IN-SANE!!!!

[Blackjackg]

All of the negotiations took place during a time stop effect, so odds are the Celestials couldn't see it. They clearly know that V made some sort of deal with the fiends, but they likely don't know the specifics. Even if Eugene read the file, he probably has no way of knowing that V left that loophole at all. By burning the report, he ensures that his son doesn't dismiss his most powerful ally on some trumped up "evil" charge.

[darkriku2000]

All of the negotiations took place during a time stop effect, so odds are the Celestials couldn't see it. They clearly know that V made some sort of deal with the fiends, but they likely don't know the specifics. Even if Eugene read the file, he probably has no way of knowing that V left that loophole at all. By burning the report, he ensures that his son doesn't dismiss his most powerful ally on some trumped up "evil" charge.

I couldn't agree more with MOST of what you just said, the part I disagree with, Roy dismissing V. Judging by the fact that Roy has had Belkar in his party for a while, I don't think that he has a problem with evil teammates as long as they do what they need to do, and on account that Roy is a pretty level headed guy (usually) he'd probably be willing to hear V out

[Red XIV]

We don't know how much the Celestials know about V's deal. But neither does Eugene. It would've been smart for him to read the report first, then burn it if he still considered it outside of what Roy needs to know.

I mean, it's not like the old man's got something better to do with his time.

[Blackjackg]

Patience and forethought are not exactly Eugene's strong suit. He made the blood oath in a fit of passion and gave it up just as quickly. Ditto his wife and children. He got the idea to burn the report, and poof, it goes up in flames. When things go south and the fiends turn V against Roy, he might think "Huh. Probably should have read that report." Then again, he might not.

And yeah, Roy probably wouldn't dismiss Vaarsuvius, but why should Eugene take that chance? After all, he doesn't seem to put much stock in Roy's good sense.

[Raging Gene Ray]

We don't know how much the Celestials know about V's deal. But neither does Eugene. It would've been smart for him to read the report first, then burn it if he still considered it outside of what Roy needs to know.

I mean, it's not like the old man's got something better to do with his time.

Agreed. The Celestials MAY know nothing of the Deal, they MAY know nothing of the fiends knowing about the gates, but we'll never know what was in that report.

All he knew was V made a deal with the forces of Evil. Eugene should know that any sort of deal can lead to being bitten in the bum later.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Kaytara]

Even if Eugene read the file, he probably has no way of knowing that V left that loophole at all.

I would even say that Eugene assumes that V left no loopholes because V is not some idiot fighter, but a wizard with high intelligence.

[NerfTW]

Agreed. The Celestials MAY know nothing of the Deal, they MAY know nothing of the fiends knowing about the gates, but we'll never know what was in that report.



The celestials shouldn't even know about the gates either. Only the gods themselves, or people they've told, know about them. Would you risk telling underlings about a god killing abomination?


Judging by the fact that Roy has had Belkar in his party for a while, I don't think that he has a problem with evil teammates as long as they do what they need to do,

Actually, he does have a problem with it. He didn't know Belkar was evil in Origin of PCs. They all found out for certain presumably during the Unholy Blight being cast on them situation. At that point Belkar was under contract. Roy thought Xykon was dead and manipulated the team into helping him reforge his sword. After that, they were captured by Miko. Roy was going to leave Belkar to rot in prison, but by this point felt responsible for keeping him in line, and used the mark of justice to do so.

So it's not that Roy lets evil people join the party, he simply felt responsible for the one that he let in.

[Optimystik]

All of the negotiations took place during a time stop effect, so odds are the Celestials couldn't see it.

We don't know what Celestia saw or didn't see; we don't even know if time was really stopped. Trusting their version of events is the beginning of folly.


And yeah, Roy probably wouldn't dismiss Vaarsuvius, but why should Eugene take that chance? After all, he doesn't seem to put much stock in Roy's good sense.

Pretty much this.

There is (unintended) good from Eugene's act, however - nothing V did or will do as a result of the splice can taint Roy's record, because he can plead ignorance.

[hamishspence]

And, lack of ability to intervene- most of V's dubious acts took place when Roy was dead.

Only if Roy finds out what V's done and does nothing will he be in trouble.

[Tenebrais]

There is (unintended) good from Eugene's act, however - nothing V did or will do as a result of the splice can taint Roy's record, because he can plead ignorance.

I think they could still blame him for ignoring the Deva in the first place. But I suppose that would most likely be seen as merely foolish rather than a genuine mark on his alignment.

[Optimystik]

Only if Roy finds out what V's done and does nothing will he be in trouble.

Exactly. This is what makes Eugene's act commendable - he has given his son the perfect defense in "court."

[hamishspence]

However if, because of Eugene's actions, Roy's ignorance of it leads to big trouble- the fiends taking over V, with Roy being unprepared to stop them, it may have serious consequences for the safety of the universe.

Given that the fiends appear to have a plan of some sort, and odds are it involves V, Eugene's act seems like a dangerous gamble.

[Optimystik]

A dangerous gamble with weighted dice - Elan's "happy ending" probably won't involve reality being subjugated by fiends possessing his friend. :smallsmile:

[Blackjackg]

V isn't Elan's friend anymore. His happy ending includes Haley and Roy. Probably not Belkar or Durkon, because they'll be dead.

[David Argall]

There is (unintended) good from Eugene's act, however - nothing V did or will do as a result of the splice can taint Roy's record, because he can plead ignorance.
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Any lawful bureaucracy is apt to take the position that their efforts to notify Roy were adequate and therefore any failure to learn is Roy's fault. Roy still might benefit from ignorance, but that is definitely a "might".

[hamishspence]

More a problem for acts of commission- example being that paladins fall for evil acts, even if they do not know act was evil (PHB Atonement spell) but, its easier to redeem self.

Given that Eugene deprived Roy of the info, he can hardly be blamed for not knowing it.