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SSGoW
2009-06-24, 11:13 PM
Soooo where does it say that after you die your diety wont let you prepare and use spells after you die? shouldn't you be able to raise yourself if you are a high leveled Cleric?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-24, 11:14 PM
No. No really: NO!

SSGoW
2009-06-24, 11:14 PM
no what exactly >.>

BobVosh
2009-06-24, 11:15 PM
A similiar point has been made before: where does it say you can't walk around and talk to people after you are dead?

quick_comment
2009-06-24, 11:19 PM
A similiar point has been made before: where does it say you can't walk around and talk to people after you are dead?

When you are dead, your nonlethal damage is greater than your lethal damage, so you are unconscious at best.

To answer the OP, some book (manual of the planes) specifies that when you die you are transformed into a 1HD petitioner.

SSGoW
2009-06-24, 11:25 PM
what i know about the DnD world is that when you die you go to your god's plane... i figure a plane shift or simular spell could actually let you go back to the material plane....

the reason i know this is cause when playing a risen matyr when you get all the levels in it your god rips a whole and pulls you back into his/her plane of existance...

so once you die why dont you have your spells?

do you become your god's angel or what?


edit : manual of the planes? i'll check that out and thanks but why would a god turn a super powered cleric into a 1 HD petitioner O_o

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 11:27 PM
When you are dead, your nonlethal damage is greater than your lethal damage, so you are unconscious at best.

So get healed. :smalltongue:

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-06-24, 11:28 PM
Soooo where does it say that after you die your diety wont let you prepare and use spells after you die? shouldn't you be able to raise yourself if you are a high leveled Cleric?

Like he said No...

...unless you and your DM really want to have a way to auto-resurrect your character after death in which case...

...it's been done before...

...you can use...

Contingent Resurrection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/contingentResurrection.htm)...the epic (divine) spell

Stasis Clone...9th level arcane spell

Clone...8th level arcane spell

Death Pact...8th level divine spell (from Spell Compendium)

Pact of Return...7th level arcane spell (from Heroes of Horror)

Craft Contingent Spell (Complete Arcane) + True Resurrection

(Edit: Note your character has to cast these before they die.)

Gaiyamato
2009-06-24, 11:30 PM
All mortals become a 1HD petitioner and then they go to where they are meant to based on alignment and any claims on the soul.
So a Chaotic Evil person with no claim on thier soul goes to the abyss.
A cleric of Yondalla would go to Yondalla's realm and benefit from whatever afterlife she provides.

Only beings with Divine ranks can escape this when they die.

So you lose all of your class abilities including spellcasting unless a divine being/demon prince/lord of hell gives it back to you in some manner.

holywhippet
2009-06-24, 11:30 PM
You can raise yourself, kind of. Use the contingency spell and specify the activating clause to be when you die. Pair it with raise dead and you've got an automatic return to life. That's assuming there is enough left of you for raise dead to work though.

A really nasty DM might rule that a sword wound kills you, the raise dead spell brings you back but you still have the sword in you so you die again.

quick_comment
2009-06-24, 11:36 PM
So get healed. :smalltongue:

Corpses are objects, and not targetable by healing spells.

averagejoe
2009-06-24, 11:52 PM
Hmmmm.... I was looking over the rules, and no where does it say that dogs can't play basketball. Therefore there is no problem with putting a dog on a basketball team.

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-24, 11:57 PM
Corpses are objects, and not targetable by healing spells.

Oh look at that. We have just the thing for healing objects. Repair spells. Alternatively, a cleric casting Vigor/Greater Vigor before you die. Fasting healing brings you back up.

FoE
2009-06-25, 12:03 AM
Well, in 4E, Raise Dead is an eight-hour ritual that has to be read and spoken aloud. Very difficult to do that if you're a corpse.

Also, in 4E, souls pass on to a realm known as the Shadowfell after death.

Brock Samson
2009-06-25, 12:03 AM
Worked for Air Bud.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-06-25, 12:06 AM
Well, in 4E, Raise Dead is an eight-hour ritual that has to be read and spoken aloud. Very difficult to do that if you're a corpse.

Also, in 4E, souls pass on to a realm known as the Shadowfell after death.

And in 4e whenever a bell rings a deva is reborn.

BobVosh
2009-06-25, 12:10 AM
When you are dead, your nonlethal damage is greater than your lethal damage, so you are unconscious at best.

Ah yes. I remember that now. I believe the solution was psionics/still magic. Silly wizards with stilled animate object. Or create undead. "My own body is my minion!"

SSGoW
2009-06-25, 12:10 AM
so you are saying that in 4e after you die and you spirit s where ever that it can not speak like at all O_o

Zeful
2009-06-25, 12:12 AM
All mortals become a 1HD petitioner and then they go to where they are meant to based on alignment and any claims on the soul.
So a Chaotic Evil person with no claim on thier soul goes to the abyss.
A cleric of Yondalla would go to Yondalla's realm and benefit from whatever afterlife she provides.

Only beings with Divine ranks can escape this when they die.

So you lose all of your class abilities including spellcasting unless a divine being/demon prince/lord of hell gives it back to you in some manner.

So death should be permanent then? Because as a petitioner your still alive, after a fashion, and are no longer a valid target for any form of resurrection.

But to answer the Op's question, yes a cleric can raise himself from certain forms of death, like ghost hood.

FoE
2009-06-25, 12:17 AM
so you are saying that in 4e after you die and you spirit s where ever that it can not speak like at all O_o

The spirit can speak, presumably. But you need to read a Ritual from a scroll or a book, which is not easy if you're an incorporeal spirit.

Also, the Shadowfell is another realm of existence where dead souls pass into, and the Raise Dead ritual requires that the ritual-caster be in the presence of the corpse. Since the dead person's spirit is in another dimension, it's impossible for them to get to their body unless they become a ghost or a wraith and manifest in the real world. And even if that happens, they're probably bat**** insane.


And in 4e whenever a bell rings a deva is reborn.

Or a rakhasa.

SSGoW
2009-06-25, 12:18 AM
what a rip off is all i can think... you spend you whole life getting powerful to become nothing... wow that sucks

FoE
2009-06-25, 12:21 AM
what a rip off is all i can think... you spend you whole life getting powerful to become nothing... wow that sucks

And now you know why adventurers travel in groups.

Teamwork: if we all work together, no one has to carry the corpse alone.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-25, 12:21 AM
what a rip off is all i can think... you spend you whole life getting powerful to become nothing... wow that sucksAs opposed to the real world, where you spend your whole life getting powerful and then you're dead. At least in D&D, you retain your personality and can come back, even if you lose all that power for the time that you're dead.

Alteran
2009-06-25, 12:22 AM
what a rip off is all i can think... you spend you whole life getting powerful to become nothing... wow that sucks

That, uh, that seems a lot like how it works in the real world. You can work hard and achieve many things, but when you die you lose it all. That doesn't seem to stop people from trying to achieve great things while they are alive.

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-25, 12:23 AM
Actually..

Step 1: Get a familiar as a cleric.
Step 2: Use Anyspell(or Miracle) to replicate the spell Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability. Your familiar gets to cast your CL/3 in spell levels, up to a maximum of 6. Give him a Raise Dead spell and a gem for it.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: You just raised yourself.

Gawaeyn
2009-06-25, 05:27 AM
Step 1: Get a familiar as a cleric.
Step 2: Use Anyspell(or Miracle) to replicate the spell Imbue Familiar With Spell Ability. Your familiar gets to cast your CL/3 in spell levels, up to a maximum of 6. Give him a Raise Dead spell and a gem for it.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!

Fixed. :smalltongue:

Also, there are epic destinies in 4e that allow you to come back from dead, like, once per day or something. So, no, not all for nothing. :smallamused:

But seriously, where is the sense in a dead corpse being able to raise itself. :smallconfused:

Emy
2009-06-25, 06:45 AM
Imbue familiar with spell ability maxes at level 5 spells.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-25, 06:57 AM
Soooo where does it say that after you die your diety wont let you prepare and use spells after you die? shouldn't you be able to raise yourself if you are a high leveled Cleric?

Yes. That happens in at least one D&D novel that I'm aware of.

Duke of URL
2009-06-25, 07:05 AM
Imbue familiar with spell ability maxes at level 5 spells.

Still works, as raise dead is a 5th level spell. Although it may be arguable that a familiar no longer has any powers while its master is dead.

Still, you're that high in level , do you really want to take the non-recoverable level loss? Better to simply have a contingency or similar spell send a message to a follower of some sort who is a) safely away from whatever just killed you, and b) capable of using a scroll of true resurrection.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-25, 07:48 AM
4th ed- Raising yourself from the dead through shear will and bad-assery is pretty much one of the suggested origins for the ddi exclusive Revenant race.
Also a pretty good origin for various 'nasties', such as the unrisen (Open Grave) and so on.

If the parties ritual-caster did bite the dust, in such a location as to make his ressurection unlikely, I'd be willing to talk about some self-raising, as I agree that your shade might be capable of doing just that, if it can avoid being drawn too quickly to the Shadowfell and the Raven-Queen's domain.

I'd probably tack on all manner of plot-cost, though. It'd be a great source of hooks.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-25, 08:11 AM
A really nasty DM might rule that a sword wound kills you, the raise dead spell brings you back but you still have the sword in you so you die again.

To be fair, most people who put swords in people don't leave them in the body. Arrows, on the other hand, are often left where they hit, at least in common battlefield conditions.

Eurantien
2009-06-25, 11:16 AM
Don't almost all spells, from raise dead to true resurrection require you to be in close proximity to at least a small piece of the body? That's hard if you're a spirit in your god's realm. Also, where are you going to get those diamonds? You can't take it with you you know. :smalltongue:

As for 4e, Raise Dead can be cast at 8th level. If you're smart, you'll scribe at least one scroll of it to cover you, just in case.

kc0bbq
2009-06-25, 11:33 AM
In 4th you can get powerful enough to just shrug off death. Most of the Epic Destinies have powers that activate on death. One has you just stand up again (time it takes depends on how often you've died that day, from 1 round to 24 hours). One allows you to just wander back from wherever you went when you died, alive and whole with all your stuff. Most of them don't let you die too often without a raise dead, the powers are "Once per day (when you die)", but that's what potions are for. Here, drink this, you'll be alive in no time.

I think Archmage has you turn into a ball of magical awesomeness for a while before coming back to life so you can blow stuff up for a while.

Not much different than 3e's Contingent Resurrection or Clone in effect, but with neat flavor.

Eurantien
2009-06-25, 11:41 AM
Archmage is actually awesome. You carry on fighting as a spirit at full HP who can't cast daily powers but can use at-will and encounter, and you're incorporeal. Plus, you return to your body after the encounter.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-26, 01:40 AM
i'll check that out and thanks but why would a god turn a super powered cleric into a 1 HD petitioner O_o
:smallsigh: You don't travel to an Outer Plane and become a petitioner. You are dead. Not relocated, dead. Your soul travels to an Outer Plane and becomes a petitioner.

The deities of D&D are not omnipotent, so the answer to "Why don't the gods do X?" is often "Because they can't" or "Because it's not a high enough priority." This really should not have to be spelled out.

Why don't the gods restore all of the abilities that each of their petitioners had in life? Because trying to do that is way down on their "To Do" lists, which have stuff like "Prevent the fiends from destroying the multiverse" near the top.

Some players don't seem to get this, but being a Cleric of your god primarily means that you do stuff for him, not vice versa. He delegated some stuff to mortals like you because he just has way too much stuff that he needs to get done, ya dig? The last thing he needs is you pestering him for favors; that's contrary to your purpose of reducing his personal workload.

Tyrmatt
2009-06-26, 02:53 AM
4th ed- Raising yourself from the dead through shear will and bad-assery is pretty much one of the suggested origins for the ddi exclusive Revenant race.
Also a pretty good origin for various 'nasties', such as the unrisen (Open Grave) and so on.

If the parties ritual-caster did bite the dust, in such a location as to make his ressurection unlikely, I'd be willing to talk about some self-raising, as I agree that your shade might be capable of doing just that, if it can avoid being drawn too quickly to the Shadowfell and the Raven-Queen's domain.

I'd probably tack on all manner of plot-cost, though. It'd be a great source of hooks.
Damn beat me to it with the Revenant, which is the literal definition of raising yourself through willpower alone.
And I always play Clerics of the Raven Queen. Nothing like having a job to do to make it more likely she sends you back :p
"Sorry ma'am, Orcus got in a lucky shot. Rez plz?"
"Oh fine. But ONLY because he threatens my very existence and control over the natural process of death. Don't want people thinking I'm going soft or anything."

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-26, 07:18 AM
In 4th you can get powerful enough to just shrug off death. Most of the Epic Destinies have powers that activate on death. One has you just stand up again (time it takes depends on how often you've died that day, from 1 round to 24 hours). One allows you to just wander back from wherever you went when you died, alive and whole with all your stuff. Most of them don't let you die too often without a raise dead, the powers are "Once per day (when you die)", but that's what potions are for. Here, drink this, you'll be alive in no time.

I think Archmage has you turn into a ball of magical awesomeness for a while before coming back to life so you can blow stuff up for a while.

Not much different than 3e's Contingent Resurrection or Clone in effect, but with neat flavor.

I particularly like the Feyliege version.

Where your older, kingly self returns from the future to kick ass in your place, ressurecting you once the smack has truly been laid down.