Who Wants To Live Forever

[Kilremgor]

Just have a question to help define a plot for certain evil NPC...
Within D&D rules, is there a way, no matter how evil it is (and more evil it is, the more it should suit the character in question), to live (and not just exist!) forever (or at least for a really long time, like few thousands of years)?

By 'living, not just existing' that means:
1) Not being undead (so liches and similar options are off), so one can still feel things, pleasure, pass as human at a glance, etc.
2) Not being confined to some artificial existence (such as Imprisonment, putting one's brain in a jar, living in a magic item, etc.)

Other than that, all options (including taking over others' bodies, dying and then getting back, etc.) are ok. Full immortality is not necessary; just getting rid of 'dying of old age' problem.

The NPC in question is villain, LE Human Wizard 15/Archmage 5 (that may get epic spells/levels in short time), soon to hit venerable age, with access to evil cleric services :) and reasonable influence/power to do most things that can be somehow useful (such as having lots of folk to sacrifice, money, and other).

[kamikasei]

There are a few races with no maximum ages: Warforged, Elan and Killoren are the ones I can think of offhand, all +0 LA. Elan, though aberrations, are for most purposes pretty human, so your best bet is probably to polymorph or True Mind Switch or something into one of those.

There are also class options for it. I know the Eldritch Disciple (Warlock/Divine theurge class) gets a "stop aging" class feature at one point that, unlike the similar feature of the Druid or Monk, doesn't include the line about dying naturally when you reach your maximum age.

But your simplest bet will be to become an Elan. A bit of work with Polymorph Any Object should do it.

[Flickerdart]

Or you could research Gathering of Maggots, go Worm That Walks and kill everything everywhere. Granted, it's Undead, and a pretty freaky one at that.

But yeah. Elan, Warforged, Dragons, Killoren. Polymorph Any Object.

[Fixer]

Elan are your best bet.

Another option is to die of non-natural causes and have someone reincarnate you. That way you end up with a new freshly-minted young-adult body that can then age normally. Of course, this option is not a Good Idea™ if you are evil, as it requires your minions be loyal enough to reincarnate you.

[Tequila Sunrise]

The NPC in question is villain, LE Human Wizard 15/Archmage 5...
Dude, you're the DM and your NPC is a wizard. All you have to do is snap your fingers and, *look at that!*, your NPC knows some nameless immortality spell. If you don't want your players to get their hands on it after they kill him, just say that he burned the spell after casting it on himself.

[Flickerdart]

Elan are your best bet.

Another option is to die of non-natural causes and have someone reincarnate you. That way you end up with a new freshly-minted young-adult body that can then age normally. Of course, this option is not a Good Idea™ if you are evil, as it requires your minions be loyal enough to reincarnate you.
You mean Geas/Dominate/Mindraped enough to reincarnate you.

[Fishy]

I like Mind Seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm) for my evil and disturbing immortality needs. It's not exactly the same as living forever, but it's close enough for some people's purposes, and it's much, much more evil.

[J.Gellert]

He's evil, so he can... Steal organs from younger people and make extensive use of the Heal skill and regenerative magic to transplant them to himself to extend his lifespan for as long as he can find... people.

Or, if you want more mysticism and less science, he can sacrifice people to <InsertDarkGodHere> and become 1 day younger for every year left to live on the victim (randomly determine victim's maximum age). 1 month bonus for every virgin woman involved.

[Fixer]

You mean Geas/Dominate/Mindraped enough to reincarnate you.Do those effects remain after your death? I do not recall.

[Omegonthesane]

You mean Geas/Dominate/Mindraped enough to reincarnate you.

I'm not sure you need to bother. Is there a good reason why you couldn't mindrape a druid into making you a reincarnation trap and forgetting that he had done so; have a Contingent Greater Teleport to send your corpse into position to trigger that trap when you die; and slit your own throat whenever you hit Venerable, having previously tested this method on a suitably innocent victim? Or even better, having slaughtered about twenty innocent victims while you work out the kinks in the system.

[kamikasei]

Or, if you want more mysticism and less science, he can sacrifice people to <InsertDarkGodHere> and become 1 day younger for every year left to live on the victim (randomly determine victim's maximum age). 1 month bonus for every virgin woman involved.

There is, in fact, a spell to that effect in the Book of Vile Darkness. Something like a week of extra life per point of stat drained from the victim, but for full effect you need to do it at a crossroads at midnight under a full moon while wearing a tutu... so that gives you over a year per bog-standard commoner sacrificed.

[grautry]

I think that immortality - or at least a respite from ageing - should be well within the limits of what Wish can accomplish. The simplest version I can think of is to wish for Reincarnation - as the spell - into the same species as he is. This bypasses the whole minion loyalty uncertainty. A more carefully worded Wish can probably avoid the whole shenanigans of reincarnation and go straight for immortality.

Since he's a 20th level Wizard, he most certainly has access to that spell.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

There's an undead critter in Monsters of Faerun (I think? It's a FR monster, anyway) whose life force is linked to its master. For each of these creatures someone controls, he ages at half the normal rate (cumulatively). Assuming your wizard has at least 1 year left to live (which he does if he's not yet Venerable), he could go slaughter 100 or so people, raise them as this critter, and extend that 1 year to a bit over 1030 years as long as they all survive. If he casts genesis to make a demiplane, sticks them all in there, and prevents planar travel in or out, they can't be destroyed and he effectively ages at (1/2)100 the normal rate no matter what.

Unfortunately I'm away from my books and can't tell you the name or the exact source, but someone else might recognize it, and if not I'll try to find it when I get home.

[Miyako]

Do you includ WotC advendure objects?

What about the SOUL MACHINE in the Castle Perilous adventure about the Simulacrum of Acerak?

You could probably use that to affect your age somehow, fed by the souls of the people you put in the soul machine.

[Set]

Research a 9th level version of Magic Jar that allows your evil wizard to move in permanantly, crushing the Trap the Soul focus gem holding the original owner of the body afterwards and obliterating their soul to make the spell permanant (and thus, un-dispellable). Since you not only have to usurp someone's body, but also *destroy their soul,* it goes without saying that this spell should be [evil]. As a fun bonus, he gets their physical attributes, so he'll always be looking to 'trade up' if he finds a particularly healthy specimen (say, one of the PCs?)...

Other evil options would include draining life-force from others to sustain one's own life (cast once a year, and need to sacrifice a person for every year that you've been alive?), or carving out one's heart and keeping it in a box somewhere.

Alternately, the whole heart-box thing could be a fun way to keep his generals in line. He makes them un-killable via this spell, but keeps their hearts hidden away, so that the only force that can truly kill them is himself (or that pesky rogue who sneaks into where he hid their hearts, thus rendering his 'indestructible' generals vulnerable to the forces they've been mowing through until now).

[mostlyharmful]

There's a good FR spell that turns the target into a half fiend, as outsiders they have a good argument for immortality. You can't cast it on yourself so just scroll it and have your familiar UMD it.

Level 7 so well within your budget, costs some xp and gp but nothing as pricey as a reasonably aquired wish. Plus at level 20 already you can buy off two of your LAs straight away.

[J.Gellert]

There is, in fact, a spell to that effect in the Book of Vile Darkness. Something like a week of extra life per point of stat drained from the victim, but for full effect you need to do it at a crossroads at midnight under a full moon while wearing a tutu... so that gives you over a year per bog-standard commoner sacrificed.

I remembered it vaguely at the time of writing, but was too bored to check the specifics. Besides, it's more interesting if you are actually stealing "life left to live" from another (so all the more reason to actually sacrifice babies :smalltongue:).

[Ashes]

True Mind Switch. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm)

That seems like pretty much the easiest way to go about, and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read it. You can just have the wizard research an arcane version of the power, shouldn't be too difficult.

[J.Gellert]

True Mind Switch. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm)

That seems like pretty much the easiest way to go about, and the first thing that crossed my mind when I read it. You can just have the wizard research an arcane version of the power, shouldn't be too difficult.

Mmm, Orochimaru...

That last body restriction is silly. What's the point of it, so that you don't off your enemy by placing your current body in a pool of acid, then immediately switching? You have easier ways to kill someone by the time you get level 9 powers.

[Flickerdart]

The problem with Reincarnation is that you take level hits, and that's the last thing you want to do in Epic levels, because you're losing more XP than most adventurers see in their lifetimes.

[dragonfan6490]

There's a Sword and Sorcery Studios 3.0 book, Relics and Rituals that has a ritual to become immortal, I don't remember the specifics, but it requires a willing sacrifice.

[Ethdred]

The Mongoose Games book on necromancy had a spell that prevented you aging for 24 hours. The material component was a pint of blood from someone else. Very nasty, but great for plot.

[The_Werebear]

The Mongoose Games book on necromancy had a spell that prevented you aging for 24 hours. The material component was a pint of blood from someone else. Very nasty, but great for plot.

Didn't that book also have a spell that said "The target becomes 1d10 years younger"?

[Doc Roc]

Astral Plane? Astral Plane + Rod Of Embassy.

[Doc Roc]

Research a 9th level version of Magic Jar that allows your evil wizard to move in permanantly, crushing the Trap the Soul focus gem holding the original owner of the body afterwards and obliterating their soul to make the spell permanant (and thus, un-dispellable). Since you not only have to usurp someone's body, but also *destroy their soul,* it goes without saying that this spell should be [evil]. As a fun bonus, he gets their physical attributes, so he'll always be looking to 'trade up' if he finds a particularly healthy specimen (say, one of the PCs?)...

Other evil options would include draining life-force from others to sustain one's own life (cast once a year, and need to sacrifice a person for every year that you've been alive?), or carving out one's heart and keeping it in a box somewhere.

Alternately, the whole heart-box thing could be a fun way to keep his generals in line. He makes them un-killable via this spell, but keeps their hearts hidden away, so that the only force that can truly kill them is himself (or that pesky rogue who sneaks into where he hid their hearts, thus rendering his 'indestructible' generals vulnerable to the forces they've been mowing through until now).


You are doing it wrong... :)



People have probably heard ot Tleilaxu_Ghola's Sandwich Psion. The trick runs as follows:
1. Take one sandwich.
2. Hire a wizard to cast Polymorph Any Object, turning the sandwich into a rabbit.
3. Manifest Astral Seed.
4. Kill yourself.
5. Use Mind Switch to possess the rabbit.
6. Use Metamorphosis/Astral Construct to smash the Astral Seed.
7. Wait out the Polymorph Any Object.
You are now a sandwich.


Quite famously works on non-sandwiches. Very famous trick.

[Eurantien]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=632562

There's a class in there, The Stranger With The Burning Eyes, who uses "magic jar" on people. That's a good one for what you've asked for, I think.

[Eurantien]

Oooh, or for other cool things, some kind of transformation into an elemental creature? Or have you seen Dragonheart? It's cheesy, but the guy shares a still-living dragon's heart, making him immortal while the dragon lives.

[talus21]

Well I would think you could do it much like in Dragon Lance. Just move yourself into someone elses body. Once you wear that one out, start looking for a replacement.

[Shademan]

according to some legends, eating a dragons heart would give 100+ years to live.
now just add some lore about dragons being important for life on earth or some **** and you got yourself a problem.
hm... he might hire the PC's to destroy a AHEM "evil" dragon and bring its heart back as proof!

[Drider]

every 5 minutes you jog, you add another 5 minutes to your life? he can cast a spell that lets him make a clone run and absorb the clone.

[Omegonthesane]

The problem with Reincarnation is that you take level hits, and that's the last thing you want to do in Epic levels, because you're losing more XP than most adventurers see in their lifetimes.

Hm, thought it didn't level-drain you. That sucks....

You could research Epic spells for a slight extension to your life by the Fortify seed. Alternately you could houserule that maximum age increases from the Fortify seed DO stack, rather than overlapping. Especially evil if it has the mitigating factor "Material component: Human baby less than 1 year old (ad hoc -30 DC)".

[Atelm]

If the character in question were not old already, a reasonable alternative to reincarnation would be to use the Clone spell to create soulless adult bodies of them in a lab and then have them slit their own throat as soon as they reach venerable age. This would resolve any issues with having to rely on someone else for it.

The down side is, of cource, the loss of 1 level.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm

[Telonius]

Extended Life Span. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#extendedLifeSpan)


Extended Life Span [Epic]

Benefit

Add one-half the maximum result of your race’s maximum age modifier to your normal middle age, old, and venerable age categories. Calculate your maximum age using the new venerable number. This feat can’t lower your current age category.
Special

You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

As long as you keep advancing in level, then theoretically you could just keep taking this feat over and over again.

[Paragon Badger]

...Wish?

Deals with the devil? Ect. ect.

It's magic. Epic magic, nontheless.

[woodenbandman]

You mean Geas/Dominate/Mindraped enough to reincarnate you.

You mean fearful enough of you not to try to dispel your contingent Last Breath.

Being druid FTW. No aging penalties no matter your form, and you can craft contingent Last Breath for no level loss, ever.

Don't forget the contingent heal though.

[TheDon]

So an interesting question, if you switch body, let the new body age to venerable before switching again, do you get the mental stat bonus everytime you switch body?

[Eurantien]

Does anyone remember the tale of the man who bargained with the devil to become immortal? He never aged and couldn't die, but he had a portrait that aged instead. If he ever saw the portrait, he died instantly (btw, this was ripped off in "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen".

[Altima]

...Wish?

Deals with the devil? Ect. ect.

It's magic. Epic magic, nontheless.

The thing about Wish is that the wording of it makes one's age seem like a part of their True Name (especially given that Wish can only work once, I believe). Given that, shennanigans like switching bodies and whatnot may not work. Heck, if I'm a DM, I'm making my players work for their immortality.

[Flickerdart]

Does anyone remember the tale of the man who bargained with the devil to become immortal? He never aged and couldn't die, but he had a portrait that aged instead. If he ever saw the portrait, he died instantly (btw, this was ripped off in "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen".
You mean Dorian Gray? He didn't bargain with the devil, nor did looking at the portrait kill him in the original. But that book was incredibly dull anyways.

Now, Faust had himself a rather interesting immortality clause, in that Lucifer could only take his soul when he was at peace. The PCs certainly could take some advantage of a deal like that, were anyone stupid enough to offer it.

[Oslecamo]

Does anyone remember the tale of the man who bargained with the devil to become immortal? He never aged and couldn't die, but he had a portrait that aged instead. If he ever saw the portrait, he died instantly (btw, this was ripped off in "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen".

Boy the story surely has been corrupted. He didn't strike a deal with the devil or anything like that, even he himself didn't know why he was not aging. But all the pain and suffering he should be taking from being a jerk to other people was being transfered into the painting he admired so much, because, well, it was a representation of himself, and he was a really pridefull guy. That's why he didn't age, all bad stuff that hapened to him went to the painting.

Then one day he looks at the painting and he sees on it himself, but completely distorted, an abomination of an human, due to all the suffering he had transfered to it. He then realizes how much of a jerk he had been and dies with the horror of the realization as all the pain and suffering transfers from the painting to himself, so he becomes the one disfigurated and the painting goes back to normal.

Or something like that. I don't remember the details exactly. Probably someone else could tell it better.

[Omegonthesane]

Boy the story surely has been corrupted. He didn't strike a deal with the devil or anything like that, even he himself didn't know why he was not aging. But all the pain and suffering he should be taking from being a jerk to other people was being transfered into the painting he admired so much, because, well, it was a representation of himself, and he was a really pridefull guy. That's why he didn't age, all bad stuff that hapened to him went to the painting.

Then one day he looks at the painting and he sees on it himself, but completely distorted, an abomination of an human, due to all the suffering he had transfered to it. He then realizes how much of a jerk he had been and dies with the horror of the realization as all the pain and suffering transfers from the painting to himself, so he becomes the one disfigurated and the painting goes back to normal.

Or something like that. I don't remember the details exactly. Probably someone else could tell it better.
I thought it was an Oscar Wilde novella not a myth.
Basically yeah, he got a painting and all the injuries and aging that should have gone onto him went onto it. After ages of shenanigans he finally guilt tripped and tried doing good deeds but the picture looked smug, reflecting that he wasn't really repentant deep down; then he decided his only hope was to get rid of his conscience, embodied in the horrible things the painting was suffering. So he drestroyed the painting, and died, and it gave back all the aging and such he should have suffered.

[hamishspence]

There are D&D stats for a comparable portrait in Champions of Ruin.

Slightly better than just immortality though- also protects owner from energy draining effects and the like.

[masterjoda99]

I don't recall seeing this mentioned in this thread, so sorry if I accidentally missed it, but Dragon 354 has the Endless quality that gives immortality, and there's also a 9th level necromancy spell that makes an item grant that quality while it's in the caster's possession.

[hamishspence]

dragon isn't published by WoTC though- more secondary source.

Though those bits are possibilities, and "brooch that makes you immortal" is described as one of Gromph Baenre's items in the Starlight and Shadows series by Elaine Cunningham.

[SilverSheriff]

There are a few spells in the Dragonlance Sourcebook 'Legends of the Twins' they basicly make you or a target younger or older but you'd have to keep casting it every couple of years... added bonus of even Reducing your age.

[Kilremgor]

Thanks for all the answers!
For now, I'm thinking of somethign like the following:

(IC part. Names and details to be added later).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
In the distant past to the story's setting, Human Wizard and Elan Psionic were causing mayhem and expanding an Evil Empire. Wizard was loving Transmutation, experimenting with bodies of different beings (and his own), while Psionic was enjoying Telepathy, torturing others right in their minds. Their powers complemented each other well; and while Wizard was interested in enjoying physical pleasures and victims' screams, Psionic was happy just by using mental power to play with people' thoughts, drowning others' in madness, controlling enemies and causing insanity.

But eventually, Wizard's venerable age was approaching, while Psionic's mind started to further drift away from that of normal being; and their empire was weakened due to actions of the heroes of the past. The unholy pair attracted universal hatred. In the end, a group of adventures assaulted their citadel, and after epic battle and taking heavy losses, killed Psionic and forced the Wizard to teleport away... and heroes' surviving sorcerer followed him.

Cornered, wounded, low on spells, old Wizard decided to use his only prepared Wish to bring Psionic back and stand a chance to survive the sorcerer's attack. Lacking another Wish to recreate body, he tried to use his knowledge of Transmutation - or specifically, Polymorph Any Object - to make one; but had no living matter for permanent effect around at all. In desperation, he cut his hand, used Polymorph Any Object to create a substitute of Psionic's body and Wished his soul back in.

Once Psionic was back, it became apparent that his new hastely-constructed body will not last long; and nor will Wizard live long with his wounds; but he was able to manifest his powers.

An idea crossed his mind; given that hand and the rest of Wizard's body were part of the whole, the same creature, wouldn't that allow more effectiveness for specific power? Wouldn't their antisymmetric powers, one focused on flesh and another on mind, complement each other in the whole being?

And so, Fusion, giving control to the wizard.

When sorcerer entered, an unwounded, yet horribly wretched being wielding both arcane magic and psionics opposed it, and was easily gaining upper hand.

And Wizard then thought that this allows him to solve another problem...

After weakening the sorcerer, Wizard then used True Mind Switch to take over his body... and then cast Imprisionment on his old, natural body, now containing the sorcerer.

And since then, the story was shrouded in darkness.

It is not known how Wizard and Psionic managed to make their Fusion permanent, or whether one of them is in all-time control or they both use the body in turns; or whether it is still divided as the hand and the rest, giving a horrible meaning to the 'alien hand' concept. But it is well known that sometimes, an old stranger would arrive in some town, find a young, promising man and take him as a student...
For that 'student' to come again in the next town decades later.
While somewhere, deep underground another old, suspended body joins the rest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

So technically, this BBEG should:
1) Be both arcane caster and psionic
2) Have old/venerable age bonuses stacked many times (that wisdom etc. bonuses reflect the amount of experience and knowledge he has gained by experiencing many different lives in different bodies).
3) know really a lot about history and most subjects
4) have a way to change bodies and don't care about level loss much (given that previous body requires Freedom to get, which, without knowing true name of the victim, can be quite hard to accomplish).
5) and more)

Well, now interested in feedback on how much this background story stretches the rules and how fun/interesting it is :)

[Eurantien]

This sounds really good. I like it. It's not too much of a rules stretch, particularly if you consider how many spells are out there. A quick thought? Why not have (unknown to the PCs) the two casters melded into one mind, due to the effect on the psion of living in a body made from the wizard's flesh combined with the shared space in their minds.

[Draxonicar]

He's evil, so he can... Steal organs from younger people and make extensive use of the Heal skill and regenerative magic to transplant them to himself to extend his lifespan for as long as he can find... people.

Or, if you want more mysticism and less science, he can sacrifice people to <InsertDarkGodHere> and become 1 day younger for every year left to live on the victim (randomly determine victim's maximum age). 1 month bonus for every virgin woman involved.

With that sacrifice option
...if he gets his hands on a dragon he'll be immortal