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View Full Version : Bringing Soul Society into D&D [Bleach Spoilers?]



PhoeKun
2006-02-11, 08:25 PM
One of my favortie pastimes of late is taking various things from my favorite anime and video games and converting them into the 3.5 rules set. I'm aware it isn't the best system for this, but most of the fun comes from creating the closest approximation I can without re-inventing the wheel, and also maintaining a sense of balance. Since starting, I've managed to create a prestige class for FullMetal Alchemist (3 classes, actually), a new version of the Sorcerer based on Orphen, and a Legact Weapon tribute to Guilty Gear X's Ky Kiske.

My latest project is the Shinigami from Bleach. The thing is, I'm completely stumped. The only thing any two Shinigami have in common is that they posess a Zanpakuto, and no two of those are alike, either. Further complicating matters is the lack of any real "iconic" character in the series.

So, I'm here asking for help. Should this be a base class? Prestige class? Multiple classes? Come to think of it, what kind of abilities should the class provide? Free magic weapons, spell progression, new class abilities? I'm completely open to anything anyone would be willing to come up with, as I have no idea how to even get this thing off the ground, and I'll probably go nuts if I just let it die.

Thanks in advance!

Ugly_Panda
2006-02-11, 08:59 PM
I like Bleach but the mythology behind it is constantly self-contradictory. Check out the soulknife from the expanded psionics handbook and use that as your base. Replace psychic strike, bladewind, and the throwing abilities with something spiritual abilities and make it so they can't pick what special abilites their mindblade has.

PhoeKun
2006-02-12, 12:30 AM
Thanks for the idea. If I can track down my Expanded Psionics Handbook, I'll give that a try. I'll probably post whatever I make for peer-editing.

Of course, until then, I'd still like to hear any ideas (specific or general) anyone has.

Ravyn
2006-02-12, 06:43 AM
I have a very straightforward answer for you: use a different pre-existing system. Doesn't mean you can't convert Bleach to an RP setting, just that D&D isn't suited for it. Think of it this way: the Shinigami can't be lumped into categories beyond Captain, Vice-Captain, everyone else. Hollows--do we want to know? There is no clearly defined good and evil--yes, there's the whole Plus/Hollow thing, but on the other hand, if good and evil are solid and diametrically opposed, why the heck would they put up with whatsisname, the captain of the 12th? And what the heck would you call the filler arc nuisances? It IS, however, eminently suited to certain other systems--my boyfriend's attempting to translate it to a modified version of Exalted, and I think that even with the whole zanpakutou thing he's pretty close to having it worked out.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-02-12, 07:17 AM
The captain of the 12th is Kurotsuchi Mayuri, and yes he is one twisted sonofabitch. He can be trusted to be loyal, though, which is why the other Shinigami tolerate him.

I don't see why you'd consider the Shinigami "good" though. The exemplars of their order are guys like Byakuya, a pretty solid lawful neutral IMO.

anphorus
2006-02-12, 11:28 AM
The main problem I see is with the Zanpaktou, namely Shikai and Bankai. Everything else would be fine as Shinigami are all trained to use certain abilities, i.e. Swordsmanship, Demon Magic and the last one (I think) is Shunpou, the ability to move large distances in a single step. All you would have to do is let them invest in these skills. Shingami also cannot be harmed by mortal weapons; it requires a weapon imbued with spirit power.

Byakuya and Aizen are great examples of Shinigami who have great ability in all of these areas. Hinamori is a good example of someone who is mostly Demon Arts and Renji is a great example of someone who focuses on Swordsmanship. Even though Yoruichi isn't technically a Shinigami she's the best example of someone skilled in Shunpo. I'm fairly sure that Ichigo and Kenpachi are the only ones who were never trained in demon magic. We have seen very few spells from demon magic though.

The problem with the Shikai and Bankai is that every single one is different and some are far more powerful than others, Aizen's shikai being a great example of one that is vastly superior to others.

Zanpaktou's Shikai seem to be characterised by some things though. Firstly changes in form, all Zanpaktou change to a different shape in each form. The second is the gain of one or more abilities (Byakuya can control the "sakura petals" of his shikai and bankai and his bankai can be concentrated into his "White Imperial Sword"; Ichigo can fire a blast of reiatsu with his shikai and bankai and his bankai increases his speed; Tousen can put people to sleep, or form a fan of blades with his shikai and his bankai suppresses all senses of those within it's radius) in each form, these abilities are learned, so shinigami would gain more at certain levels.

To gain your Shikai the prerequisite is that you have to contact you're Zanpaktou and learn its name. In order to get you're bankai you have to manifest you're zanpaktou's avatar and subdue it, or go through Urahara's 3-day training.

This should probably be a base class, only open to those who are dead and have been moved to Soul Society (we shall assume that any PC's are people who would possess spiritual powers in SS.) I know that at the start of the series Ichigo had his power granted to them by another Shingami, but this was only temporary, if it hadn't been for Urahara's special gigai, Rukia's powers would have returned and left Ichigo. And I think we can ignore how Ichigo got his powers in the pit as that is an individual case and would only complicate things.

Once dying the base creature would likely gain the "plus" subtype, which would expand it's lifespan to around ten times.

Quincy's would be interesting, this would probably be a base class too although only be open to living creatures.

Don't even get me started on hollow shinigami hybrids as that hasn't been fully explained yet. People who have naturally occurring spirit powers in life (except Quincy's) can probably be left out as Don Kanoji is so far the only example of this we have seen, as the rest of the human's with spirit powers were caused by Ichigo.

EDIT: Piedmon_Sama.

True but then you have a person like Kenpachi who is Chaotic Neutral if ever I saw one. Then you have Hitsugaya who is clearly Lawful Good and Ukitake and Shunsui who are probably Neutral Good. I can't see any alignment restrictions being placed on Shinigami. I would've said non-evil before someone brought up Mayuri, who is clearly evil and, unlike Aizen or gin is still part of the Shinigami.

PhoeKun
2006-02-12, 12:45 PM
Thank you all for the advice (even if the advice was 'give up' ;))

I think I'm starting to get a picture. I'm thinking a base class, likely modled after the Soul Knife, since mindblades and Zanpakuto are fairly similar in concept. Definitely no alignment restrictions. An orginization with room for guys like Hitsugaya-taicho and Maiyuri (heh... you can see where my loyalties lie) is open ended enough to allow for the best and worst among people.

I like the idea that the class is only open to characters that have died (even if that reeks of prestige class), and I imagine a shinigami's immunity to mortal weapons is best represented by slowly aquired DR/magic.

Since shinigami train in four different arts, those being hadou (unarmed strikes), kidou (demon magic), swordsmanship, and shunpou (flash step), the class may wind up with too many abilities unless I separate them somehow, which helps with the creation of specialists like Hinamori. I think I can take care of this with branching levels, where you could pick an ability or bonus feat relating to one of the four disciplines. You could either specialize in one, or take them all at different levels and nab the feats with your regular slots to bring the levels of each up (although you probably shouldn't be able to match a specialist in his or her chosen area).

The Zanpakuto are still eluding me. Maybe a legacy weapon style ordeal that grants you a feat for access to Shikai and Bankai? But then how to deal with the powers of each form? Should it be up to the DM or the player? Or maybe both... While I'm thinking about it, should I just make up a list of potential Zanpakuto abilities and let players choose from those, or would the flavor be better served by making each one from scratch?

Thanks for the ideas thus far. Keep 'em coming!

endoperez
2006-02-12, 01:13 PM
Maybe force the player to choose between strong secondary/ultimate abilities, demon arts, what-have-you. Maybe lots of free Shinigami feats that would open up new possibilities. Some of the feats would limit the character, e.g. by disabling the use of Demon Arts and increasing toughness/swordsmanship/something (Ichigo, the berserker with the eyepatch - Koruichi?).

Bankai are very differently described, and have different abilities, but the description is mainly fluff. Maybe these abilities could be modelled after spells of certain level. The experience costs could stay, and maybe material costs could be changed into fatique, or something. I think that would work, if spells of certain level are balanced.

I'm not sure about duration and how it would affect this. Also, I'm not sure if e.g. the element should be free to change, and if metamagic should be appliable.

Would Ban Kai modeled after 7th level spells be about right, with one chain of two-three Shinigami feats enabling level 8, and another chaing with a trade-off enabling level 9? What about fusing more spells together, to e.g. cause Confusion and Darkness?

I'm not sure if just having access to different spells as Shinkai /Bankai is enough, or if there should be an option to receive boosted ability when in Shinkai/Bankai. On the other hand, the manga has had Demon Magic-improving Zanpakutou(?), and Ichigo's sword HAS to improve his swordsmanship...

anphorus
2006-02-12, 03:14 PM
I think it was explicitly stated that when using your shikai you only gain the abilities, but when you release your bankai you become 5-10 times stronger (depending on how well you can use it). I think this might be overpowering against other classes though.

Maybe there should also be limits on using the shikai and bankai at lower levels/ I'm thinking specifically of Soi Fong's shikai (in the past the marks would fade with time) and Hitsugaya's bankai. Which he can only keep released for a short amount of time before he is forced to return to normal, due to only achieving his bankai a short while ago. Just off the top of my head I think access to shikai would be around level 7 and access to bankai around level 14.

And when it comes to deciding zanpaktou abilities, I think you should either let your players come up with ideas, but then you should defiantly have some idea of how to balance them. Again I'm thinking of Aizen's shikai, which would be insanely broken for a PC to use. Or you could come up with a list of abilities for Shikai and bankai and assign them points and give each character a set amount to spend on their zanpaktou abilities. This way they could either have one powerful ability that improves over time and with practice (Soi Fong's shikai) or a lot of weaker abilities, but you only start with one and have to learn the rest (Tousen and Urahara's shikai)

Another thing is that, aside from Ichigo who is really the exception that proves the rule, bankai are HUGE. Byakuya's consists of about one million tiny blades, Fox-dude's (Konomura?) is a huge giant and Mayuri’s is that weird slug foetus thing. The smallest I can think of apart from those are Hitsugaya's which basically turns him into an ice-dragon and Ikkaku's.

Also: what happens if the Zanpaktou themselves are damaged or injured? You'll probably need to come up with rules on how long it takes the Zanpaktou to heal naturally, I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of 1d6 days based on what I've seen in the anime.

I like all of the ideas you have so far, one thing I'd like to recommend is not allowing the character to choose his or her bankai or shikai form until just before it is achieved. The shikai and bankai in the series all compliment the characters strengths, Ichigo's is mostly raw power and revolves entirely around his swordsmanship, and Hinamori’s is entirely a kido-type shikai. Ikkaku's shikai is a versatile weapon and his bankai is a huge pair of meat-cleaver type things.

Oh yeah, something I forgot to mention in my last post: Spirit pressure. When a shinigami with a large reiatsu, such as Gin, Genryusai, Kenpachi, Ichigo etc uses their power they exert a spirit pressure on the area around them that can hinder or even paralyse weaker opponents.

I can't believe I forgot hadou. It's probably because Soi Fong and Ichigo are the only shinigami that use it, even if Ichigo only uses it rarely.

Piedmon_Sama
2006-02-12, 03:53 PM
I think how I'd do it is one of two ways.

1- have it be completely random. To determine the ultimate power of their Bankai, each Shinigami rolls a percentile die. Work out 10 "classes" of Ban Kai power level, and give them the one they select. Obviously characters lucky enough to roll a 90% or higher will be much more powerful, ultimately, than those who roll low.

2- base it off their best stat. i.e, if a Shinigami has a high charisma, give him a Ban Kai like Aizen's. If he has a high constitution, give him a poisonous ban kai like Kurotsuchi's. etc. etc.

PinkysBrain
2006-02-12, 04:57 PM
Make Shinigame psychic warriors, and give them weapons of legacy ... with as ultimate ability a summon monster IX. Close nuff IMO :)

PhoeKun
2006-02-13, 01:13 AM
Er... why Summon Monster IX?

All right, I've just about got a feel for where I want this to go. I should have the rough draft ready for posting in a week or so, depending on how kind life is to my free time.

Thanks to everyone whose helped so far!

PinkysBrain
2006-02-13, 12:09 PM
I just like fitting things into the default rules, it's a nice challenge ... summon monster IX just happens to be a high end weapon of legacy ability, and it fits decently with most bankai (hell, you could probably find a decent fit for all bankai with 9th level spells at your disposal).

Psionic powers already fit the other Shinigami powers nicely (energy ray, hustle etc).

endoperez
2006-02-13, 06:02 PM
I don't know 9th level spells that well, but would Ichigo's speed be Time Stop -speed, or "only" more attacks/movement.

Orrmundur
2006-02-13, 07:03 PM
Am I the only one who thought of people like James Brown and stuff when I read the title?

DM_of_the_Lazy
2006-02-13, 10:01 PM
One of my favorite things to do over the summer was make the various anime/video game classes for dnd (i got bored a lot and had a full time job with little to no rules...i.e. lots of time) my favorite one to make was the shinigami, ive been updating it over and over as new episodes come out and i read more of the manga but i think i finally have it all figured out (or what i think is good) i dont have it right now its on my other computer but i'll get it and post what i think works to add the shinigami to dnd without being completely over powered and without missing much of anything.

TimeWizard
2006-02-13, 10:09 PM
My DM is a bleach fan, and played a shinigami base class. He should be posting here soon. Shinigami, much like DnD Fighters, have far too much diversity to be given all them same set of abilities. A fighter can choose from any number of feats and utilizes feat trees, likewise a shinigami should have multiple pats in front of them. If performedright, you could have multiple shinigami's in the same campaign, each completely different. How much time do you have? You could take an afternoon and write down all the special powers, abilities, skills, and finally bon/shikai of the soul reapers, and/or pick your favorite 5 characters. Work on bringing their moves into DnD terminology. Flash Step is already done fore you, it works in much the same way as the monks ability of Dimension Door. Etc... A good way to keep from being overwhelmed is to base it on a base class, and make modifications, and over time, factor out the original base class. I helped my DM make his shinigami, and we debated a lot on abilities in effort to keep his character from being ridiculously overpowered. Have fun!

*note: My DM has already completed his version of the Shinigami in many of the same ways I just described. He should post soon.

PhoeKun
2006-02-16, 12:41 AM
Fate is not being as kind to my efforts. I've been too busy to devote any serious effort to working this class, and as such I only have a few pieces that I'm satisfied with.

Here's what I have so far:

Hit Die: d10

Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, Tumble, Use Magic Device.

Skill Points: 4+Int (x4 at first level)

Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 Hit Dice (as Cleric)

Good Saves: Reflex, Will

Average Save: Fortitude

Proficiencies: Light and Medium armor, simple weapons, bonus proficiency with zanpakuto's weapon type.

Special Abilities: DR 3/magic at 3rd level (+2 extra every 4 levels after), Shikai at 7th level (zanpakuto becomes intelligent item, gains one special ability based on abilities and DM/player consensus), Bankai at 14th level (zanpakuto changes form [becomes huge], increases in power, but is difficult to use until higher levels are reached, nature of bankai based on abilities and DM/player consensus).

That's the shell I've got worked out so far. At this point, I need comments, critique, and as many specific suggestions as possible.

Thanks, everyone!

PinkysBrain
2006-02-16, 12:55 AM
Id still consider taking a variant psychic warrior as the base, maybe with an adapted list of powers and feats they can take.

Hustle (and at higher levels temporal acceleration) represents flash step better than dimension door (which leaves you unable to act afterwards). Also manifestation fits better than dealing with somatic/verbal/material components.

Since there are plenty of characters which use magic without using a zanpakto Id deal with the zanpakto seperately from the class. Although weapons of legacy don't provide an ideal fit, I do think the concept of personal sacrifices to gain the power fits and keeps the balance a bit with players who choose to go without a zanpakto (all the training with the zanpakto takes away from your normal development).

anphorus
2006-02-16, 01:14 AM
I'll have to defer to PinkysBrain's obviously superior knowledge of the rules here, the only thing I can think of is the Medium Armour proficiency. Shinigami don't wear armour at all, I think light armour works for the sake of balance (and you could rule that a Shinigami's kimono counts as light armour) but I can't see how medium armour proficiency works.

Otherwise I like it so far, all the skills seem to fit well, i probably would have forgotten all about Knowledge (the planes).

PinkysBrain
2006-02-16, 01:55 AM
Maybe allow the zanpakto to work something like a monk's belt? Giving a bonus to AC based on int, cha or wisdom (not all shinigamis are wise, and some do wear armor).

Also how about a first level feat which you can take which gives you a bonus to manifester level, +2 at most but probably +1 or maybe scale it with level, but if you go below a certain number/percentage of hitpoints you have to make a will save when you are damaged ... and if you fail you get some minor natural armor, again +2 or +1, and go into a state of frenzy (as frenzied berserker).

(Based on Kurosaki Ichigo and some stuff from the manga.)

PhoeKun
2006-02-16, 02:12 AM
I like the idea of the zanpakuto monk dodge/defense idea, although I'm hesitant to use things based on Kurosaki Ichigo. He is in many ways the exception rather than the rule for Shinigami.

Anphorus: you're right about the medium armor bit. Not sure what I was thinking. At any rate, please continue to contribute, rules lawyer or not.

Hm... Psionics does seem to work better than magic. I'm going to try and get my first complete rough copy up by the weekend. Until then, suggestions are always appreciated!

anphorus
2006-02-16, 02:23 AM
A thing you might consider about Psionics and Magic, from a flavour perspective. Psionics has always been considered to be power that comes from within yourself; it is your own ability that alters the world around you, whereas magic is usually you controlling another power, using it to alter things around you. Back when the Menos Grande first appeared it was explained that a Shinigami's power comes from within themselves, it is their own soul's power that they are using, nothing else, similar to psionics.

Quincys on the other hand, call upon the spirit energy around them and focus it into their own abilities. When Ishida pulled off his glove and gained his power boost in the Mayuri battle he started to absorb the very matter of Soul Society (which is made of spirit energy) to use in his final attack against Mayuri. This kind of power is much more akin to the traditional view of magic, a Quincys true "power" comes from his ability to control and handle the potentially limitless energy that exists all around him.

EDITfor below: Pinksbrain, for spoiler tags you can just use [ color=white ][ /color ] or [ color=beige ](or f0e7d3)[ /color ] depending on the background of your post, one works with both but I can't remember which.

That's what I get for taking too long to post :-/

Yes but wouln't Vizords or Arrancar be a different class? Arrancar's Zanpaktou releases are totally different from those of shinigami, and we haven't actually seen what effect controling ones hollow side has on a vizord yet.

Not to mention the fact that Ichigo isn't technically entirely human.

PinkysBrain
2006-02-16, 02:27 AM
Except for the whole bow thing (which again, could be handled by an item which requires sacrifices) quincy magic would seem better covered by something like incarnum than arcane/divine spellcasting. Incarnum is extracted from the environment too, but just like psionics it's more suited to martial characters than arcane/divine magic ... it has more of a support role.

Unlike with psionics and demon magic there is no nice 1:1 mapping between incarnum powers and quincy powers though.

PhoeKun
2006-02-16, 02:30 AM
In many ways yes ... but well ... hmm, does this board have spoiler tags?



It does now.

PinkysBrain
2006-02-16, 02:33 AM
Sorry :)

PinkysBrain
2006-02-16, 02:53 AM
Oh, since the spoilers are out in the open now :)

If you hadn't noticed, Im not sure if trying to capture everything in the class is the best idea :) I kinda like having the weapons (various zanpakto, quincy bow) granting powers separately from the classes (which would grant demon magic, and it's equivalents).

The classes could have restrictions, and the weapons could have feat and class-ability prerequistes ... to make sure players can't form nonsensical combinations.

Vizards and Shinigame could probably share the same class with this approach, with vizards having access to some other powers and perhaps their zanpakto working a little differently.

If not everything about being a shinigami/quincy/vizard (lets ignore the evil variants for now) is based on class you get a little more flexibility as a player. Want more feats? Take some fighter levels. Want rage? Take some barbarian levels. You could even allow some prestige classes which give manifester levels. All without reducing the powers you can get from your weapon.

Although I still think those powers should come at personal costs, like with weapons of legacy, to maintain some balance.

The combination of these approaches makes it easier to explain characters like Kenpachi Zaraki and Yoruichi IMO. Shinigami have huge variety in a mechanical sense not covered by their zanpaktou.

Jarlax
2006-02-16, 08:26 AM
i think that the shigami class should be like a ranger, having two differant feat trees, one for swordfighting and one for unarmed combat, demon magic would then be availbable at later levels and dependant on Wis or Char or whatever. as we have seen unless naturally adept at demon magic (eg. high Wis) most shigami dont use it in combat.

but really shigami are so diverse that one single class could not completely reflect them. they inhabit their own universe and essensially would cover several differant classes. otherwise your entire game world is made up of people who all have the same class.

shikai and bankai need to be feats only avaiable at a certain level or BAB since time needed to train for them is the same as training for a regual feat.

what powers they receive would need to be discussed with the DM and player because the weapon is designed to support the shigami's combat style hence why ichigo first gets a massive weapon for pure power then a normal size weapon to balace his lack of speed.

also thow in a feat for suppressing magic aura's so detection spells wont work on them.

PhoeKun
2006-02-17, 02:40 AM
I had initially wanted to avoid legacy weapons, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. After all, the zanpakuto, while a defining characteristic of each shinigami, is also a fundamentally separate being (One look at Zangetsu should make that much obvious).

Players could design their own legacy weapon-type zanpakuto (avoiding the Knowledge [history] checks, since those don't work here) and work with the DM to take that part of their character as far as they want. I love it.

As for the Qunicy and Vizard issue, I'm just going to dodge that bullet. They're separate classes, which I'll save for a later date.

Oh, and to Jarlax: thanks for the suggestions. Of course, if I had wanted to incorporate every last little detail within the Gotei 13, I'd use another system. This is part of the challenge (and thus, the fun).

Xenoti
2007-09-23, 12:25 PM
I figure Vizards are a prestige class, with a feat that must be taken at character gen, much like the feat Spellfire Weilder. Arrancars would be more of a template for Hollows(demon based monsters?) which add hit die, a form of shape change, and special abilities.

And to access the prestige class has some sort of time limit, as even the other vizards ichigo meets, seem to have the same restriction. Maybe a feat to increase the time limit by so much.

Justdamohr
2007-09-23, 12:46 PM
I'm glad to see that there are others attempting to convert Bleach into D20, that's AWESOME. I just wanted to say I saw a BleachD20 system thread in one of the forums and the person did a pretty neat job, not to say you won't, just saying maybe that could be a reference in helping you perceive how you'd like to interpret Bleach. I know myself, I just made the Spirit Warrior Base Class as paying homage to the Shinigami and you're more than welcome to see how I translated them into D20. I primarily tried to make a generic class which could make any weapon a Zanpaktou. I hope what I said could help you.

GOOD LUCK THOUGH. THE MORE BLEACH d20's out there THE BETTER!!!!!!!!:smallbiggrin:

castus
2007-10-02, 08:45 PM
i've been trying to make a shinigami prestige class as well. for the variety of zanpaku-tos i've made them intelligent items that the player may choose abilities for. that alows for the vast diversity of abilities as well the fact that the zanpaku-tos are after all kind of alive. i feel its also helpful to make them a psionic class and give them the ability to temporarily improve the zanpaku-to's enhancement bonus by spending power points. my version of the class is not complete yet but i feel at least that is a brilliant idea i had. i've decided to work on my quincy class in the mean time (so much easier:smallwink: ).

cryos88
2008-06-08, 02:34 AM
well, it is nice to see that so many people are trying to help you out, i have an idea for the quincy, in the "complete psioncs" book there is a class called soulbow...the quincy could benifit from this class a a base for your ideas, they need no bow and can augment their arrows abilities, i have been also trying to find a way to make the shinigami class and i think that some spells and powers both will work for the ban-kai, example: ichigo's bankai is alot like "temporal acceleration", while aizen's is much like the power "false sensory input". but some spells that i thought would be interesting would be like "evil weather" in the "book of vile darkness"...the violent rain would be a lovley ability. and other things like entangle and fireball could be shi-kia abilities. i would like to read more about your class and hopefully you take some of my ideas into consideration.