So, could someone explain to me...

[Lorn]

... why exactly the LG afterlife administration cares at all about V's deal with the Lower Planes? I was under the impression (s)he was always Neutral, and as such wouldn't have hugely mattered to the LG extraplanars.

Seems to me that to be honest it shouldn't matter too much to Roy either. There is nothing preventing him hanging around with Evil - he isn't a paladin, and as such has no oath preventing him from hanging around with evil party members.

So, why exactly would one of the devas be trying to inform him about it? He'll find out himself pretty soon anyway...

[SadisticFishing]

His team is HIS team. They keep track of them for him, and to judge him - and seeing as he was there, they decided to give him a heads up.

Though that is kind of weird.

[Optimystik]

The Lower Planes' whole mission is to bring down the Uppers. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html) Therefore it is in Celestia's best interests to keep track of what they're up to.

There's also the point that Roy is responsible for the alignment/actions of the Order while he leads them.

[Tempest Fennac]

I assumed they cared because of the risk of V's deal potentially compromising one of the gates, and the Fiend's overall aims would be likely to worry the LG Outsiders.

[L'intrigant]

Could it be that the angels are simply that stuffy? Because that's where my money is.

[Snake-Aes]

They are Good beings, it's natural for them to worry about the well being of others, and to bolster the cause of good. I don't see why a secretary coming tell one of it's denizens about the misdeeds of his team is beyond their sphere of action.

[Kaytara]

Roy is trying to save the world, so a subordinate dealing with forces of evil becomes his problem and becomes their problem.

Which is a practical reason. I don't see why they would even need a practical reason to care about V's soul, alignment and general well-being. They're incarnations of Lawfulness and Goodness, they are really just that nice (and stuffy).

[SadisticFishing]

Could it be that the angels are simply that stuffy? Because that's where my money is.

"That stuffy"? You do realize what V did, right?

[Optimystik]

They are Good beings, it's natural for them to worry about the well being of others, and to bolster the cause of good. I don't see why a secretary coming tell one of it's denizens about the misdeeds of his team is beyond their sphere of action.

Particularly when his "misdeeds" involve making a deal with their milennia-old antagonists.

[batsofchaos]

That and while we know the fiends had some form of ulterior motive when they made the deal. What that is we're unsure of, but the upper planes might know what it is specifically and it might be directly threatening in a way they'd wish to debrief Roy on.

[SadisticFishing]

Optimistyk, I find it funny how much I agree with you about everything except Familicide. Just sayin'.

[hamishspence]

Maybe because OOTS dragons aren't that much like MM ones.

(Playdrake, inviting "nice green girl" over, etc)

Plus, 3rd to 3.5 is the aberration- previous editions and 4th ed made chromatic dragons more flexible, capable of being Affably Evil tyrants rather than Complete Monster destroyers.

And most of the novels detailing chromatic dragon interaction with others were pre 3.0.

[SadisticFishing]

... wrong... thread?

[hamishspence]

Familicide?

[Optimystik]

Optimistyk, I find it funny how much I agree with you about everything except Familicide. Just sayin'.

The difference between us on that topic is that I see the worth of leaving chromatics alive. They're mean bastards, but they have done lots of good things (including destroy evil artifacts - dragonbreath is one of the few things that can, and MOST stories where that happen, a chromatic ends up doing it - see also Cleric Quintet, Shard Trilogy, Elfsong etc. for useful and reasonable, yet still dangerous and clearly evil, chromatics.) So I'm against genocide for anything short of fiends.

But this is off-topic; I'd rather not derail the thread.

[hamishspence]

Also, Tiamat is portrayed as the better alternative to Gilgeam, in Faerun- an enemy of a worse tyrannical god. The cult of Tiamat being led by a LN cleric. And dragons being her agents.

On V- we'll have to see.

[ZeroNumerous]

So I'm against genocide for anything short of fiends.

Ya, but if everything's dead then who's left to argue whether you're Good or Evil? :smallbiggrin:

And they might worry because he now has a potential liability. Those three fiends have a total of 3 hours of V-time between them during which they can force him to do anything they wish by simply stapling his soul to someone they mentally dominated. V is a threat to Roy's mission, and possibly the planes themselves, and as such Roy should be warned of that.

[hamishspence]

A bit less than that- Haerta counts as two minutes or so, and how long have Jepthon and Ganonron been attached?

[Kogan Urufu]

Also Roy can't be held accountable for Vaarsuvius's actions. True, a leader is responsible for his/her team, but only when said leader has some semblance of control over said team. Roy being dead, did not, so any actions undertaken by Vaarsuvius during Roy's time in the great beyond is Vaarsuvius' responsibility.

[slayerx]

... why exactly the LG afterlife administration cares at all about V's deal with the Lower Planes? I was under the impression (s)he was always Neutral, and as such wouldn't have hugely mattered to the LG extraplanars.

Seems to me that to be honest it shouldn't matter too much to Roy either. There is nothing preventing him hanging around with Evil - he isn't a paladin, and as such has no oath preventing him from hanging around with evil party members.

So, why exactly would one of the devas be trying to inform him about it? He'll find out himself pretty soon anyway...

For pretty much the same reasons they were concerned about his association with Belkar...

Really when it comes down to it, the idea that in DnD a non-paladin LG can associate with those of evil alignment is pretty damn faulty... i mean, Associating with evil in and of itself should be considered a non-LG action and doing it too much should risk your alignment as we saw with Roy when he reach the upper realms


Also Roy can't be held accountable for Vaarsuvius's actions. True, a leader is responsible for his/her team, but only when said leader has some semblance of control over said team. Roy being dead, did not, so any actions undertaken by Vaarsuvius during Roy's time in the great beyond is Vaarsuvius' responsibility.

Yes but it is something he should be concerned about when he gets back
the upper realms will not fault Roy for the actions of V while he was dead, but they will be judging him when he goes back to the mortal realm with how he deals with V...

As the leader, Roy should probably deal some kind of punishment on V for his dealings with the forces of evil, as one might deal with any criminal... it's part of his responsibility as a team leader

[BatRobin]

A bit less than that- Haerta counts as two minutes or so, and how long have Jepthon and Ganonron been attached?

About -8 minutes now.

[veti]

As the leader, Roy should probably deal some kind of punishment on V for his dealings with the forces of evil, as one might deal with any criminal... it's part of his responsibility as a team leader

"Punishment"? V respects Roy, but he's not her father or anything, it's not like he could tell her "You're grounded!"

If Roy is going to do anything about V's recent antics, that would take the form of heart-to-heart talks and encouraging her to face up to what she'd done, and what the consequences might yet be. But personally I don't think that's going to happen, because Roy doesn't know any of these things, and nobody else knows enough to piece it together unless V takes them into her confidence. As for V - she's had some character development, but not enough to make her think that the Soul Splice may have consequences that she can't deal with alone.

[Ramidel]

"So should I just kill hir in hir sleep?"
"Well, no, but-"

The bureaucratic devas are trying to help Roy. That doesn't mean they have the brains to figure out solutions.

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

hir is still roys baby; can keep him from getting into the old after life. Belkar almost did; til he got a lawyer. This time the argument of belkar does less evil with us then he would alone; and is actually a took for good won't work. V would never have committed such evil except for the OOTs; except for Roy.

Granted half the forum thinks V should have been granted lvls out of the book of Exulted deeds; but I'll not make comments on comparative wisdom scores.

(insert link to where belkar's wisdom goes up and he renounces all violence for a life of healing)

[Snake-Aes]

"So should I just kill hir in hir sleep?"
"The wizard does not sleep."


Fixed for you!