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Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-25, 02:22 PM
I asked about something like this on the forums before and was recommended a bunch of games, but I'm afraid I've lost the links...

I'm looking for a game (not necessarily a RPG) that can handle Age of Sail (mainly 17th and 18th century) naval action. A lot of detail would be good - many ship types, boarding action, wind direction, specific numbers of cannons (so you could have the same ship with different numbers and even different types of cannons). Some kind of "characters" (i.e. at least something like a "Captain Skill" property) would be nice, as would be an ability to account for different loads on ships. The idea would be to integrate it as the naval action side of a RPG campaign involving late 1600s to early 1700s pirates.

The only RPGs with naval combat rules I have are Conan d20 and GURPS, and neither is really satisfactory - they're too abstracted.

kc0bbq
2009-06-25, 02:28 PM
The only RPGs with naval combat rules I have are Conan d20 and GURPS, and neither is really satisfactory - they're too abstracted.Would D20 7th Sea work? Might still be a bit abstract for you.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-25, 02:41 PM
I haven't got a clue - does it include the level of detail I mention? I'd rather not seek out games that don't even begin to fill my requirements. Neither d20 nor 7th Sea seem likely to include the sort of detail I want, so I don't know if their synthesis would.

Fan
2009-06-25, 02:45 PM
Stormwrack has rules for naval combat if you want to stay in DnD.. (It is 3.5 though so if that isn't your cup of tea...)

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-25, 03:13 PM
I should probably have mentioned this in the first post, but absolutely never ever D&D for this. (And Stormwrack, too, falls far short of the level of detail I want. Not to mention it definitely can't deal with Age of Sails.) Like I say, these rules would supplement a campaign, rather than be the actual game; the actual rules will the The Riddle of Steel, which has no system for handling naval combat (and a very abstract mass battle system).

Swordguy
2009-06-25, 03:29 PM
Neither 7th Sea (in either its R&K nor d20 form) has the level of detail you want.

Hmmm...do you want a wargaming system into which you can drop your TRoS characters, or do you want an RPG-esque system. There was a d20 Pirates of the Spanish Main RPG (made to use the constructable Wizkids foamcard ships) a little while ago that MIGHT work.

If you're looking for a wargame, there's several possibilities:
Pieces of Eight (http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/poe/poe.html)
Naval Rules (http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/ahollows/interests/naval_rules.htm)
Trafalgar (http://www.cix.co.uk/~pockets/nappynavel.htm)
Shot and Sail (PDF link) (http://www.jimwallman.org.uk/wargame/NAV-RULE.pdf)
Form Line of Battle! (http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/formline/formline.html)

(I prefer "Shot & Sail" and "Form Line of Battle!" for quick play stuff, but "Naval Rules" have a shedload of detail and are loads of fun if you have the time...which may compliment TRoS well, actually.)

There's also "Naval Wargames with Plastic Ships", which is another one that uses the Wizkids Pirates of the Spanish Main constructable minis, but I can't seem to find it on the web anymore. You may have better luck.

EDIT: Side question for you: is it possible to get print copies of TRoS anywhere? I've tried to contact Driftwood publishing and can't seem to get any response.

kc0bbq
2009-06-25, 03:43 PM
I should probably have mentioned this in the first post, but absolutely never ever D&D for this. (And Stormwrack, too, falls far short of the level of detail I want. Not to mention it definitely can't deal with Age of Sails.) Like I say, these rules would supplement a campaign, rather than be the actual game; the actual rules will the The Riddle of Steel, which has no system for handling naval combat (and a very abstract mass battle system).Hmmm.

There's a CCG ship game that I know people have modified to work. For the life of me I can't remember what the dang thing is called, Pirates something or other. All of mine are stuck in storage. Damage is represented by pulling masts off the little ship models, you lose cannon shots as you lose masts. Boarding could be handled separately or within the rules (it's vaguely Risk-like). Oh, it's WizKids's "Pirates of the Spanish Main". Doesn't take much space, the ships are only really 3/4" - 1 1/2" long except for the special ones.

You'd have to add wind in on your own, and then however much detail you wanted beyond that, because it's hard to model in general. Basic movement is based on the ship ratings, some are, for example, L + S, meaning one long side of a card and one short side. Tacking is what makes wind difficult, which tacking angles were the fastest really depended on the individual configuration.

It's an easy solution that can be scaled up depending on just how muc engineering you want. :P

EDIT: Hehe that's what happens when you take so long to write a reply.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-25, 04:00 PM
If you're looking for a wargame, there's several possibilities:
Pieces of Eight (http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/poe/poe.html)
Naval Rules (http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/ahollows/interests/naval_rules.htm)
Trafalgar (http://www.cix.co.uk/~pockets/nappynavel.htm)
Shot and Sail (PDF link) (http://www.jimwallman.org.uk/wargame/NAV-RULE.pdf)
Form Line of Battle! (http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/formline/formline.html)

(I prefer "Shot & Sail" and "Form Line of Battle!" for quick play stuff, but "Naval Rules" have a shedload of detail and are loads of fun if you have the time...which may compliment TRoS well, actually.)

There's also "Naval Wargames with Plastic Ships", which is another one that uses the Wizkids Pirates of the Spanish Main constructable minis, but I can't seem to find it on the web anymore. You may have better luck.

EDIT: Side question for you: is it possible to get print copies of TRoS anywhere? I've tried to contact Driftwood publishing and can't seem to get any response.

Thank you! Wargames should be great - I really do want a lot of detail on both ships and the action (at least as an option); with the game likely to involve very few ships at a time, it should be a manageable and not present too steep a learning curve.

Unfortunately, Driftwood is dead. All contact and news ceased suddenly, apparently, and many people were left holding preorders for the next book (about Fey & Sorcery) with no prospect of ever getting it. My FLGS had copies of Flower of Battle and the Companion, but that's it - no core book. I believe the PDF versions were freely available on one big TROS fansite sometime last year, though I don't know how legal that was...

Your best bet is probably trawling game stores or ebay... Amazon has it listed, but not available.

Thane of Fife
2009-06-25, 04:15 PM
While I cannot comment on quality, you might also check out Admiralty (http://www.wtj.com/games/beta/admiralty/).

Naval Duel (http://www.angelfire.com/games2/warpspawn/NavalD.html) looks pretty simple, and appears to cover everything you want - you'd need to print/make the deck of cards, though.

Swordguy
2009-06-25, 04:18 PM
Unfortunately, Driftwood is dead. All contact and news ceased suddenly, apparently, and many people were left holding preorders for the next book (about Fey & Sorcery) with no prospect of ever getting it. My FLGS had copies of Flower of Battle and the Companion, but that's it - no core book. I believe the PDF versions were freely available on one big TROS fansite sometime last year, though I don't know how legal that was...

Your best bet is probably trawling game stores or ebay... Amazon has it listed, but not available.

Damn. I downloaded a free copy of it the other day (a bad scan), and I really wanted to give the company support. I appreciate what they tried to do with the system, and it looks amazing. *sigh* Worst part is that NONE of Noble Knight, Troll & Toad, and Crazy Egor's have it...so it's going to be a real bitch to track down.

Thanks anyway. Good luck with the Naval thing!