My build

[yilduz]

I've been looking around a lot, and with a lot of help from the people here, I've discovered a lot of incredible things. Right now I'm looking for some advice to get things set up for my build, though.

My personal iconic character is yilduz, a halfling/gnome (home-brewed) Rogue/Illusioinist (always working toward arcane trickster). The halfling/gnome thing has never been an issue with any DM because it's not at all overpowered and fits my character's history. With this character, though, I've never played in a campaign that went past about level 5 or so. Right now I'm building him for a new game that will start out at level 2 and the DM has up to level 18 planned out, but may go beyond that.

So... after all that I've learned here, I want to rebuild yilduz for this campaign. I want to use the same background story, the same personality, everything about him will be the same, but the build will be different.

I've found many classes and prestige classes that I want to use based on abilities, but when I looked at the build, by the time this character gets to level 20, his BAB would be about 7 or so. Due to that, I've realized the build is a bit unrealistic because he needs to be able to hit things - and besides, I was being a bit of a munchkin I suppose. I just want this character to be everything I see him as, because he's my main character, the character whose name I use as my internet alias, etc...

ANYWAY...

What we're allowed to use is core, "complete" books, tome of battle, and anything the DM decides is balanced.

Here is what I want...

Spellthief (1 or 2) - One because it works as everything I want from Rogue, but also has the really nice steal spell ability. If I go for two, it would be because of the steal spell effect ability, which I think is pretty cool.

Illusionist (?) - Obviously, that's one of his main things, illusion spells. Focused specialist, actually. I'm thinking of prohibiting evocation, enchantment, and necromancy.

Abjurant Champion (4) - BAB, and those Abjurant abilities it gains are very nice. It also increases the illusionist spell levels

Swordsage (?) - I like at least 2 levels because of the AC bonus, and some of those stances things are cool. I've never seen those before a couple of days ago.

Jade Phoenix Mage - BAB, nice abilities and spellcasting increases. However, not hugely important. I was looking at it mainly because it does help with my BAB issue, though.

Nightmare Spinner - Awesome for my illusions, I think. Mostly for added fun, but that extra illusion spell per level per day is nice, too.

Unseen seer - No more than 2 levels, though, because I don't want it hurting my illusions for the sake of divination. Sneak attack, free silent spell feat, and the ability to add a divine spell to my spellbook is pretty cool.

Arcane trickster - Even though I'm going with a different build, this PrC is still hugely relevant because it still embodies what the character is all about, using arcane magic to improve roguish abilities.

Feats I want to use:
shadow trickster (tome of battle)
master spellthief (complete scoundrel)
----

yilduz's role in the party - scout. My main role is to be the scout, and be the backup for anyone that needs it. If someone needs a flanker, I'm in and will help with my sneak attack, but I don't intend to stay in melee for long. Low HP doesn't allow me to. UMD allows me to be the parties third healer if I have the right wand. I also have some nice buff spells to help out the rest of the party in many situations.

Rest of the party:
Sorcerer - with an incredible Cha. Main arcane caster.
Factotum - helpful in many situations, but is mainly for the fun of the class, backup fighter
Druid/Sorcerer - She is moving toward Arcane Heirophant/Geomancer. Focuses mostly on divine casting, backup fighter
Cleric - Main divine caster, backup fighter
Ranger - Main fighter of the group

We begin at level 2, so yilduz will start as spellthief 1/Focused Illusionist 1. It has to be that way in order to stay true to the background story. In fact, the DM was going to start at level 1, but I convinced him to start at level 2 because it has to be level 2 in order for this character's background story to work.

So... with all your genius, what suggestions do you have? Sorry for such a long post - but this is yilduz, my main character, the character concept I've kept in my mind (and used a couple of times) for many years.

[Keld Denar]

You vastly underestimate the power of Unseen Seer. Especially since you are building with Master Spellthief, your CL won't be harmed at all, but you will gain a bonus with your Divination spells.

There are lots of GREAT Unseen Seer spells to pick up, more than you'll ever learn with that class. The best, hands down, is Hunter's Eye, a Ranger2 spell from Spell Compendium. It gives you +1d6 sneak attack damage per 3 caster levels. Since its a Divination, it benefits from your USS +CL boost. Another great one is Divine Insight, a Cleric2 spell from Complete Divine. It lasts HOURS/level and adds your caster level to a skill check roll, up to +15. Its like Glibness, only slightly less powerful but more versatile. USS is also 3/4 BAB, which is better than wizard. Your BAB will suffer a bit at the start while you are multiclassing, but it'll get better.

I'd suggest Spellthief1/Wizard4/USS10/AT5. Its pretty straight forward. Specialize your wizard to taste. I know you want FS Illusionist, but consider also Conjourer simply because Conjouration ROCKS. You'll still have enough Illusions and whatnot. There are just soooooo many good Conjourations per level.

EDIT: for feats, you can't go wrong with Able Learner, if human, especially if you want to be able to use your Trapfinding class feature at all. USS and AT both have Hide and Move Silent, but IIRC, neither has Search or Disable Device. Also, UMD.

Other than that, Extend + Persist is great. Persist Hunter's Eye for all day SAing from an 8th level spell slot. Darkstalker from Lords of Madness is also fun and will keep you safe while hiding from things like Dragons or Xorns or a handful of other stuff with great perception.

[Origomar]

Was going to say you might need a tank in your group but since you have like 3 casters i doubt that will be a problem :P

[yilduz]

You vastly underestimate the power of Unseen Seer. Especially since you are building with Master Spellthief, your CL won't be harmed at all, but you will gain a bonus with your Divination spells.

There are lots of GREAT Unseen Seer spells to pick up, more than you'll ever learn with that class. The best, hands down, is Hunter's Eye, a Ranger2 spell from Spell Compendium. It gives you +1d6 sneak attack damage per 3 caster levels. Since its a Divination, it benefits from your USS +CL boost. Another great one is Divine Insight, a Cleric2 spell from Complete Divine. It lasts HOURS/level and adds your caster level to a skill check roll, up to +15. Its like Glibness, only slightly less powerful but more versatile. USS is also 3/4 BAB, which is better than wizard. Your BAB will suffer a bit at the start while you are multiclassing, but it'll get better.

I'd suggest Spellthief1/Wizard4/USS10/AT5. Its pretty straight forward. Specialize your wizard to taste. I know you want FS Illusionist, but consider also Conjourer simply because Conjouration ROCKS. You'll still have enough Illusions and whatnot. There are just soooooo many good Conjourations per level.

I was thinking about conjuration, but illusionist just fits the idea of this character very much. Conjuration is second to illusions, though - I use it a lot. I first created this character for a single-player game. One of my favorite things was summon monster, and get into flanking position for my sneak attack. Anyway, I'll look more at unseen seer, because it does make sense that the master spellthief feat will kind of counteract the minus to my spells.

I'm glad you responded, I always look forward to your posts. Thank you. :smallbiggrin:


EDIT: for feats, you can't go wrong with Able Learner, if human, especially if you want to be able to use your Trapfinding class feature at all. USS and AT both have Hide and Move Silent, but IIRC, neither has Search or Disable Device. Also, UMD.

Other than that, Extend + Persist is great. Persist Hunter's Eye for all day SAing from an 8th level spell slot. Darkstalker from Lords of Madness is also fun and will keep you safe while hiding from things like Dragons or Xorns or a handful of other stuff with great perception.
More to respond to. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not human, though. I'm a halfling/gnome mix. Also, my DM likes the house rule that all skills are considered class skills because the rogue is likely to take ranks in hide, the wizard is likely to take ranks in spellcraft, etc, anyway... but it allows for those little differences that makes each character a bit different.

I'll look into those feats and see what they are, though. I haven't looked too much into feats yet, so thank you. :smallwink:


Was going to say you might need a tank in your group but since you have like 3 casters i doubt that will be a problem :P

I was also thinking of that problem, but we added the Ranger so it didn't bother me as much, especially considering we have a few characters with 3/4 BAB and like to fight anyway. We also have a TON of potential for buffs.

[Keld Denar]

I'm glad you responded, I always look forward to your posts. Thank you. :smallbiggrin:
Thanks! Comments like that make it fun to do what we do, cause god knows I'm not getting paid for it!

Does your DM allow retraining rules per PHBII? Because Point Blank + Precise Shot would benefit you a lot at low levels. Sure, you are only making touch attacks, but even AC 10 is hard to hit with a -1 net attack bonus because someone parked their animal companion too close to the guy you wanted to shank with a Lesser Orb of Pwnage.

More to come.

[yilduz]

Thanks! Comments like that make it fun to do what we do, cause god knows I'm not getting paid for it!

Does your DM allow retraining rules per PHBII? Because Point Blank + Precise Shot would benefit you a lot at low levels. Sure, you are only making touch attacks, but even AC 10 is hard to hit with a -1 net attack bonus because someone parked their animal companion too close to the guy you wanted to shank with a Lesser Orb of Pwnage.

More to come.

I do not know if he will allow that. None of us has PHBII, so I'll have to find out. There is always a place online we can find that information if it's needed.

That does make sense, though. I'll see what he says about that.

Thank you again. :smallbiggrin:

[Keld Denar]

Yea, those feats would be very useful until about level 9, at which you'd probably want to retrain them. Other than those, I mentioned Darkstalker. Its great for your mundane sneakage and your magically enhanced sneakage, because it hides you against Blindsight, Blindsense, Scent, and Tremorsense, which are the most common means of pinpointing a hidden creature. The only things that it wouldn't really ward you against are Life Sense, which only really Dreadwraith have, and Mindsight, which is another really obscure detection method. You already mentioned Master Spellthief, which is freakin amazing. You'll be able to steal spells as a spellthief your level, but you won't be able to CAST the spells you steal. You will, however, be able to convert the stolen spells into energy to power your own spells. This is awesomely useful for your daily longevity. If you have a sorcerer friend or other caster with a large number of spells/day, you can also borrow a couple of his spell slots for free, if he'll let you have them. That'll save him some spells known as well, since you'll be able to borrow 1st level slots and buff you both with Mage Armor from 1 of your slots, for example.

Then you have your standard wizardy stuff. Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Split Ray, Extend Spell, and Persist Spell. Since you are only 1 spellcaster level behind, metamagic is a fine choice. An Empowered Scorching Ray does 18d6 + a handful of dice worth of sneak attack. A Quickened Lesser Orb of Acid tacks on another 5d8 + another handful of sneak attack dice. Persist is really useful mainly for Hunter's Eye, but you won't have 8th level spell slots until level 16 anyway, so it would be a good 15th level feat, unless you want to whip out metamagic reducers like Easy Metamagic or Metamagic School Focus.

[yilduz]

Darkstalker looks like a VERY nice feat. Although, I don't have Lords of Darkness, so I can't read specifically what it does.

With Master Spellthief, why can I not cast the spells I steal?

[Keld Denar]

Darkstalker does pretty much what I said it does. If you successfully hide from somone with Blindsight, Blindsense, Tremorsense, or Scent, they can't use those abilities to pinpoint you.

As far as Master Spellthief...


Benefit: Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other
arcane spellcaster classes (that is, levels of any class that grants
arcane spellcasting other than the spellthief) for the purpose
of determining what level of spell you can steal. For example,
a 4th-level spellthief/4th-level wizard could steal spells of
up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th-level spellthief.


Says nothing about casting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think that's the general consensus. Ask your DM.

[yilduz]

As far as Master Spellthief...


Says nothing about casting. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think that's the general consensus. Ask your DM.

Well, I don't know about that. The steal spell ability says nothing about which spells you can cast and when you can cast them, it only says you can cast any of the spells you steal in subsequent rounds.

However, I don't believe I can use the stolen spell's power to cast my wizard spells. "a spellthief of 4th level or higher can use the stolen spell power to cast any spellthief spell that he knows of the same level or lower"

Unfortunate, but that's the way I'm interpreting it.